My Husband Was Bitten By Our Grey

[Guest secondchance]

My husband and I adopted a beautiful, wonderful greyhound in December 2009, and we named him Chance. We both love him like a member of the family and really want to make his life the best possible.

The biggest issue I have is that when Chance is sleeping, he snaps whenever someone gets close to him and disrupts him. We have tried to adjust our lives to meet his needs while sleeping, however sometimes this is not always possible. Lastnight, Chance was laying on the mattress on the floor that my husband often lays on when he cannot sleep so he doesn't disrupt my sleep. My husband was trying to wake him gently so that he would move to his dog bed, and when trying to do this, Chance bit my husbands ear. It was so severe that the lobe was nearly severed in half. Of course, in this instant of craziness, we reprimanded Chance with loud, firm voices telling him "NO". This moment of chaos caused Chance to throw up in fear, so naturally both my husband and I feel horrible for yelling at him. I feel in my heart that Chance genuinely feels bad for doing this, but I don't know how to break him of this natural instinct he has.

To add more concern to this matter, we have recently found out that we are expecting our first child in December 2010. It will be my and my husband's fault if we do not do everything in our power to make sure this does not happen to our child or anyone else. I don't want to give him back to the rescue, but I also cannot stand for this behavior in my house. I will always fear leaving my child in a room with "the family dog".

Anything you can suggest is welcomed. I really hope that someone can help.

[Batmom]

Really sorry your husband got bitten -- hope his ear will heal without too much pain.

Best advice is, "Let sleeping dogs lie" ... AND teach a very reliable "up and out!" command so that you can move him without getting near his face when he's sleeping. Meantime I would arrange separate mattresses for Chance and DH so they each have a place to sleep undisturbed.

 

Someone will wander along with some book recommendations for raising kids and dogs together. When the child is too young to understand and follow rules, you'll have to enforce no toddlers falling on top of the dog, pestering the dog when the dog is lying down, etc. You would need to do that regardless of whether the dog had ever shown sensitivity -- few dogs are absolutely, totally bombproof 100% of the time, and you just can't predict when a dog will be hurt or startled and lash out.

 

Someone will probably also wander along and suggest you return the dog. I think that depends on your thinking through your relationship and the limitations of dogs in general, as well as the limitations of this dog in particular. I will say, my first greyhound had sleep startle -- he was fine when lying down if he was actually awake, but if he fell asleep he would occasionally startle awake with a snarl and a huge, Jaws-style snap. And he was wonderfully kind and gentle with children.

 

Hugs and best wishes to all going forward.

[cleptogrey]

i am so sorry to hear that your husband have experience sleep agression first hand. this is a delicate situation especially since you are expecting(congrats!) your first child. have you contacted your adoption rep and/or the group you adopted from? i think that would be the first step.

 

if you look up sleep agression in the g/t index there are plenty of conversations.

 

i dealt w/ sleep agression it w/ my male- who is a total mush w/ everyone while he is awake. we always wake him w/ a loud clap and lure him once he is awake w/ a food treat.he is much better, but we let him sleep in the living room. he can't even sleep near another dog- even when crated.

 

you need to talk to someone in person and work things out so you will feel comfortable in the future. yes, there is a lot that can be done. also, in bringing an infant into the house there are lots of steps to take to prepare the pup for the new-comer. i had my daughter when my saluki was 6.5yrs old. it's possible, but there is work to be done. i also would not put your crate away, it could be a helpful in the future, so keep him used to using it as his bed.

 

good luck, be diligent and careful. quick healing for your husband and the scarey emontional scars you have both endured.

Edited May 17, 2010 by cleptogrey

[greysmom]

Sleep startling is a very common greyhound problem. Though some people have had some success in desensitizing their hounds, there is no real "cure." Our first greyhound was severely sleep aggressive and bit both my husband and I - drawing blood both times - in the first two weeks she was home. She did get better over time, but I would never have left her alone and asleep with a child, even though she LOVED kids when she was awake, and was the sweetest dog I've ever had.

 

Some tips:

> NEVER wake up your dog by touching him. Call his name from a safe distance until he is awake and aware, then ask him to do what you want.

> Don't let him sleep in your bed or on the furniture. He should sleep on his bed in an out of the way place where he won't be disturbed by accident. If he can sleep in a crate I would definitely encourage him to do so.

>In general, with ANY dog, but especially sleep aggressive greyhounds, NEVER leave your young child alone with a dog. PERIOD.

>Teach your child as soon as possible to NEVER TOUCH THE DOG WHILE HE'S SLEEPING OR ON HIS BED. NEVER. Kids can learn good manners and respect around their dogs at a very early age.

 

Chance doesn't do this because he's angry or wants to bite. This is a very normal response from an animal that has slept on his own, by himself, and is never disturbed when sleeping, his entire life. You can do a lot to make sure he doesn't bite you, your husband or your child, but you have to be diligent and remember to NEVER touch the dog while he's asleep. It takes time to make this a habit, so start now!

[Valencia]

My Sydney Sue had sleep aggression, and bit me in the face, drawing blood and leaving a nasty bruise. I yelled at her out of shock and fear (I was asleep when it happened) and she was so upset and shocked at what happened.... the lesson I learned was to not sleep with her, and to call her name to wake her up (and make sure she was awake) before approaching her. Sleep aggression isn't a conscious thing with them, it's an ingrained protection device for them, and some of them do not get trained out of it. It just is what it is, and it's up to us to work around it. I don't have kids, and I do think that would be a concern for you; maybe you can find a way to give the dog a safe space the child cannot get to so that Chance can sleep undisturbed and so that you are not constantly worrying about it. I'm sorry your husband was hurt, that is really hard to face, but Chance didn't do it out of meanness or true aggression... it was just a knee-jerk response. :grouphug

[Shaysmom]

Our grey, Seamus, is sleep aggressive. He is the sweetest guy in the world and loves everybody, except when he is startled while sleeping. Then he snarls and snaps out--not at the person and not consciously; he doesn't even know he is doing it in the moment. We always make sure he is awake before we touch him or even pass by him, by calling his name loudly or making noise. It is important to know that they can also be sleeping even though their eyes are open.

 

Because of this issue, Seamus is never allowed up on our bed, and we never allow visitors close to him when he is on his bed.

 

Healing thoughts to you and your husband. So sorry that happened to you all.....

[Hubcitypam]

The first month I had Rex he and I fell asleep on the futon in the guest bedroom. At some point in the night Poodle jumped on us and we both came up flailing, My arm flailed into Rex's mouth and I received two very deep puncture wounds. He was the gentlest soul on earth and would never have done that if he had not been startled awake. You live and you learn to give dogs that sleep startle a wide berth. It was even harder with Rex as he would sleep with his eyes open.

 

 

[ahicks51]

Muzzle at night.

[45MPHK9]

i posted this a few months ago about our murray:

 

 

murray had terrible sleep/space aggression when we adopted him. he was 5 when we brought him home. he was returned to our adoption group twice for biting while asleep. we were told that one of those times he was sleeping in a hallway at night and someone in the family tried to step over him and was bitten. we were both were bitten by murray in the first few weeks we had him. both times we did exactly what were knew we should not do....petting him on his bed as he was falling asleep. we knew that it would be important to define a place for him to sleep in the house. as his third home we felt a lot of self imposed pressure to make this work for murray. who would want to adopt a dog that bit in three homes in a row? we did not want to return him. we committed ourselves to working with him. here's what worked for us.

 

we tried crating murray in the first few days that we had him. (not sure why we felt we had to crate him when we were gone....it just seemed like this is what people did when they newly adopted a greyhound.)he broke out on the first day. he tried to bite burke on the second day as burke tried to get him in there. clearly this dog wanted nothing to do with a crate. he was not at all destructive when we went to work so there was no reason to crate him during the day. we abandoned that plan. we still needed to set some sleeping boundaries with him. we felt that he needed to go to his crate when sleeping/falling asleep. we really wanted him out in the living room with us in the evening but murray continued to growl at us as we walked around him in our home whenever he was falling asleep.

 

our main challenge was getting murray to use his crate for sleeping. we set the crate up in our bedroom, covered it with a sheet to make it denlike, and took the door off. that one thing, removing the door, made all the difference for us. the crate was not a place where he would be locked in. he could come and go. early on, as murray would fall alseep in the living room we sent him to his bed. we would wake him up by calling his name and send him to the crate. sometimes, after a power nap, he would reemerge with us in the living room. some nights he stayed in his safe place for most of the night. anytime he growled we gave him a stern BAH sound. this would wake him. then he was sent to bed. gradually he learned to trust us. he spent more and more time with us in the living room. sometimes he would put himself to bed when he was tired. it was funny to watch him get up, say goodnight, and go into the crate (something we never thought he would do!).

 

we have had murray for almost two years. we continue to be aware of his tendency for sleep aggression but having that safe defined space for sleeping in our house seems to have worked for us and for murray. in the living room we can sit on murray's bed with him and pet him. bee wiseman (who came home seven months after murray) can lay near murray on the dogs beds. (bee has her own crate in the bedroom so that both dogs have a safe, designated sleeping area in the house.) in the living room murray does not react at all as she walks near him or if she moves on the bed next to him. he does not seem to care if she is near him.

 

inside our house the world feels safe to murray. now he spends most of his time out in the living room with us when we are home. we are able to step over or step on his bed when he is on it. we haven't had any growling in over a year. murray is, and will always be, a fearful dog. i'm sure with time your problem will ease as he settles in to the routine in your home. it's amazing how far murray has come in his time with us.

[Guest KennelMom]

You've gotten some good advice so far...I want to emphasize never ever putting one's face near a sleeping or dozing dog. There's simply no reason to and it's dangerous. Wake them by calling their name or using your foot to tap the bed they're on. In a case where you feel you have to touch the dog to get them up or wake them, wedge your foot under their back (or rear end or some part that's fairly distant from the end with all the teeth) and wiggle your toes. Usually just touching them with the foot will do the trick.

[Guest smarthound]

Good advise has been given. As Batmom mentioned, there are books for you to read with info on raising kids with dogs. Here's a good one: Living with Kids and Dogs...Without Losing Your Mind by Colleen Pelar. She also has a great website full of helpful info Living with Kids and Dogs

 

Have fun preparing for your new arrival!

[Charlies_Dad]

I am really sorry to hear about your husband's incident with Chance. The above posts are all good advice. Some Greys unfortunately do have sleep aggression and yet they are the nicest pups when awake. Preventative actions are the best to eliminate this from happening. Good luck and I hope things improve.

[GeorgeofNE]

George has a very strong sleep aggression reaction. I realize that I am taking a risk letting him sleep with me--a risk I am personally OK with being well over the age of consent!

 

If your dog hasn't gotten over this by now, he probably won't.

 

Your best bet when the child arrives is to have a child-proof area (a place for the dog to be when you're not supervising the kid). This can be a room blocked off with a gate.

 

"Gently waking" a dog you know has sleep aggression should not involve TOUCHING the dog. Loud clapping, calling out his name, etc. are safe and effective.

[racindog]

I feel sorry for the dog. There is nothing the wrong with him, he's doing everything right, and then gets a bum wrap like this. Is it that hard to just let the poor dog sleep without bothering him? How would you respond if you had slept by yourself all of your life and then all of a sudden, in a new enviroment no less, people thought they should be able to just poke at you etc. while you were sleeping? He couldn't help it- he was scared. As far as he knew the devil was trying to get him. And then of all things... what he wants to do most in the world is please you and you reprimand him and scold him, for what he don't even know. All he knows is that he displeased you and it upset him so bad like you said he even threw up. Sorry but I just feel sorry for the dog. I can't understand why it is so difficult to arrange things so he can be alone when he is sleeping. I just can't understand why folks think they and their kids have to "accoust" dogs while they are sleeping. They themselves wouldn't accept it if people did it to them while they were trying to sleep/rest.

[Guest MyBoys]

Our very first greyhound many years ago had severe sleep aggression, of course being new greyhound parents we knew nothing. He bit my son and chipped his tooth, he bit my daughter and cut her nose (not bad) and bit my mother in law on the hand. I called the adoption group for advise, because like you I did not want to return him. The advise I got was very simple, do not allow the dog on furniture or beds, if there is no need to wake him allow him his sleep, but if you do need to wake him keep your distance, call his name and clap your hands and wait until he is standing then call him to come to you. This simple advise worked like a charm, my kids are all now married with kids of their own and we are still adopting greyhounds. Within time our boy got over his sleep agression, we learned to respect his needs and he learned to respect ours, it is really not that complicated an issue and I believe most of the greys over time grow out of it.

[Guest Bang_o_rama]

I feel sorry for the dog. There is nothing the wrong with him, he's doing everything right, and then gets a bum wrap like this. Is it that hard to just let the poor dog sleep without bothering him?

 

Presumably this is possible. If I had a land mine in my living room I could fence it off so no one steps on it. I'd rather defuse it, though, since accidents do happen, esp. with children and pets around.

~D~

Edited May 17, 2010 by Bang_o_rama

[Ragsysmum]

Sorry for what happened but I can't see this was in any way the dogs fault. You already knew how he reacted when being disturbed whilst sleeping, yet still your husband put his face near enough to get bitten. Our foster hound has very strong space and sleep aggression so we make sure our other dogs do not go within a few feet of him when he is lying down and we call his name and make sure he is awake before we touch him. It isn't so difficult when you know about the problem. When we cannot supervise, we just separate.

[Tallgreydogmom]

I really think you should return him to your group before you become more attached to him. You sound like you will never feel comfortable with your child around him. Maybe adopt again when the child is older.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Tallgreydogmom

[racindog]

I feel sorry for the dog. There is nothing the wrong with him, he's doing everything right, and then gets a bum wrap like this. Is it that hard to just let the poor dog sleep without bothering him?

 

Presumably this is possible. If I had a land mine in my living room I could fence it off so no one steps on it. I'd rather defuse it, though, since accidents do happen, esp. with children and pets around.

~D~

 

I went to bomb investigation school when I was a cop. Some can't be defused and they can only be blown up and destroyed.

 

Sorry for what happened but I can't see this was in any way the dogs fault. You already knew how he reacted when being disturbed whilst sleeping, yet still your husband put his face near enough to get bitten. Our foster hound has very strong space and sleep aggression so we make sure our other dogs do not go within a few feet of him when he is lying down and we call his name and make sure he is awake before we touch him. It isn't so difficult when you know about the problem. When we cannot supervise, we just separate.

 

 

Very well put. Exactly right!

[Guest burgerandfrey]

We also have a sleep aggressive grey and are expecting our first child in just a couple of months. Most of our boy Zeke's sleep aggression is in the past... he has made a lot of progress in the eleven months we have had him. We also have a girl named Lola who is not sleep aggressive.

 

Even if a dog has no history of sleep aggression, it is possible for them to snap or bite when startled. It was unfortunately a painful incident for your husband, and I hope that you won't have a difficult time working through it. Of course you need to do what you are comfortable with. You know Chance better than any of us. Some dogs are better off in a house without kids or other animals, but just because a dog has sleep aggression doesn't mean that he or she can't be a wonderful family pet. And with your help Chance can get over his sleep aggression. That doesn't mean it will ever be safe to wake him up by touching him, but he may be less likely to snap or bite. The book I see most often recommended is "Living with Kids and Dogs...Without Losing your Mind." I don't have it yet, but plan to pick it up to see what advice it has... probably some stuff we haven't thought about. Up to now we have handled our issue with the following way:

 

We adopted Zeke last Summer and he slept on a dog bed on our bedroom floor for the first few months we had him. We noticed that he would get uncomfortable, and even stand up and bark, if you sat next to him while he was on the dog bed. I have young nieces who visit regularly, so we explained to them that the beds are the dogs' spaces and that they need to respect those spaces. However, we know little girls don't always listen and we didn't want something to happen if we turned our backs for a few seconds. We began to slowly work with Zeke by sitting next to the dog bed with a treat and eventually giving him some ear scratches as well. He no longer freaks out when we sit next to his bed. I'm still not going to let a baby or a toddler crawl over to his bed, but now I feel like he is less likely to lash out in case someone makes it over to his bed when we aren't looking. My youngest niece has already put this to the test. We supervise her interaction with the dogs and my wife saw her heading over to Zeke's bed. She asked my niece to stop in a calm voice and leave Zeke be. She did turn back, but got very close to Zeke. He did not react at all. Well... he did react: He got out of his bed and came over to my niece so she could pet him He adores my youngest niece, but even though they have a bond we frequently remind her to let sleeping dogs lie. She now calls Zeke by name when he is on his bed and awake. He gets up and comes to her. I think that's a good general rule: Let the dog decide whether they want to stay in bed or come see you.

 

After a few months Zeke got onto our bed one night and we let him stay there. He slept in our bed nightly for awhile until one night he jumped up and barked in the middle of the night. We discovered that he would do this sometimes when one of us moved and disturbed him. Fortunately he did not snap at us... just barked and quickly realized were he was. It was more annoying than frightening. We did have a few scares though: Once, very soon after he started getting on the bed, I laid down next to him and our faces were just a couple of feet away. He started to growl at me and then stood up and barked! I banished him from the bed for awhile. I read later in one our greyhound books that dogs sometimes see staring as a challenge. The next, more frightening scare, came when my wife tried to get Zeke off our bed by pushing him with her hand. He snapped at her face. We don't know if he was asleep or not, but she pulled back just in time and his teeth grazed her arm. He was banned from the bed after that and doesn't really sleep with us anymore. He does sometimes, but we allowed it only after we were confident that his sleep aggression had improved.

 

The most important step to take is to teach Chance a verbal command to get off the furniture. We started by getting a treat and then pointing to the floor with the treat and saying, "Off!" Not only did he quickly learn to follow this command without a treat, but he will even go wherever we point. He seems to respond more to the nonverbal pointing cue. We can point to the floor and he will get off the bed. Then we can point to his dog bed, and he will lie down there. It takes some repetition before they get the idea that it is not okay for them to get back onto the bed.

 

I think that it also takes time for your dog to simply feel comfortable and secure in his new home. Some people even try to desensitize their sleep aggressive dogs by throwing rolled up socks at them while they sleep, or doing something to startle them. No matter how desensitized they are though, I still like the rule of let sleeping dogs lie and let them have their dog bed space. Of course this is easy enough for adults to do, and more difficult to enforce with kids around. Our other greyhound, Lola, is one of those dogs who would probably let a kid roll toy cars across her back while she sleeps (not that we would allow that... but she is a very tolerant girl). I wish Zeke were more tolerant like Lola, but other than sleep aggression he is a very sweet boy who loves attention from kids. He just has some boundaries and he has always been very clear about what those are. I'm glad that we have been able to work with him to make those boundaries fade away a bit, but even non-sleep aggressive dogs can surprise you by lashing out when they are frightened.

 

Good luck working with Chance and keep us up to date on how things are going. And congratulations on the new baby! We are expecting our first in August.

 

Sean

 

Sean

[silverfish]

It is possible that this isn't the right home for him. As others have said, if you know a dog has sleep-startle problems and you still get near enough to get bitten, there's maybe a tad of contributory negligence in play here, but I do take your point about having a baby. All very well to say 'teach the child' but it only takes an unguarded moment for an accident to happen and children need to be of a certain age to be able to take instructions about 'leave the dog alone' on board. You can babygate, and be vigilant, and many, many greyhound owners do this are all works just fine. If you don't feel confident, that's another matter. As you so rightly say, it's not the dog's fault, it's the way he is, and the way he was raised.

 

However, there is one thing you might try, which I have no experience with, but others on Greytalk have found useful. Called 'stuffie tossing', it's a way of desensitising the dog to being touched while he's asleep. The idea is that you toss a very lightweight, small soft toy onto his bed while he's asleep, quite frequently, so that he gets used to being startled awake by a touch, without being harmed. If I recall correctly, you toss near him at first, about five times within a short period at first, several times a day. Then when he's well used to that and reacts merely with a look at the object and puts his head straight back down again, you toss it so that it just touches him, maybe on his tail or a foot, not on his body, and do that for a few times, several times a day. Then progress to having it land on his body. Don't rush it, and don't disturb him too often, or it will just make him worse. And perhaps don't just take my word for it but open a topic here called 'stuffie tossing for sleep aggression' and see what more experienced people say.

 

Of course, it's going to annoy the heck out of him at first, and I don't really like suggesting it, since my policy is always 'let sleeping dogs lie', but if it's a choice between sending him back and trying it, then maybe it's worth a shot. Take care though, and at the first sign his aggresssion is possibly increasing insteading reducing, stop and rethink.

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

It's not the dog's fault, but that doesn't mean the dog should live with a toddler. Try teaching a nine month old child who can not only walk, but run, that he cannot touch the dog. Not possible. They cannot understand that young. Mine was crawling, and well, at five months. Could I have taught him about respecting the dog at five months?

 

The solution is separation, and the dog sleeps in a crate. Why not put a cushy dog bed in his crate in your room. You can then gate off the bedroom door with a baby gate you can step over. You can crate the dog in there when the baby is running about. That way the kid can't stick his curious fingers in the crate and get bitten either. Dog gets run of the house when baby naps, or when dog is fully awake and interactive.

 

I would not keep a dog like that with my child and other pets, however, I still give my dogs a safe zone, and NEVER are they unsupervised. I don't care what breed, age, or temperament the dog is. Leaving a baby or child alone with the family dog is just plain ignorant. The friendliest dog in the world can, if nothing else, knock a child over or get fed up of being tormented. It's our responsibility to not allow innocent and unknowing children to abuse our equally innocent animals.

 

Another thing- if you were touching and petting and talking to the dog, trying to move him, and he bit you, then "startle" response is not the issue. If the dog is aware you are there and bites you, then the dog is telling you he doesn't want to move. Whole different ballgame. Also not the dog's fault, really- he's discovered this action works, and dogs do what works. Nothing more, nothing less.

[TheFullHouse]

I would suggest a crate for the pup to lay in when he wants to sleep. You can close the door when the baby is up and moving around until the child is old enough to understand. Keep in mind though that you will probably always have to be very careful with this dog. I still have 2 that are sleep aggressive or have sleep startle and they sleep in crates for the safety of everyone. They're perfectly fine in their crates, they actually prefer them to sleeping out where everyone is moving around.

[Guest Bang_o_rama]

I went to bomb investigation school when I was a cop. Some can't be defused and they can only be blown up and destroyed.

 

 

Well, I would not personally advocate using explosives as a training aid for greyhounds....

 

~D~

[Guest LindsaySF]

I agree with Batmom, Greysmom, and GeorgeofNE. Teagan has sleep aggression as well, so I know what you're going through. Good luck.