Stomach or Intestinal Spasms

[Time4ANap]

Tonight after eating and going out for a bowel movement, Mark came back into the house and within about 3 minutes was having the stomach or intestinal spasm that resulted in us going to the vet last week when the x-ray found a rock in his stomach. The rock was thrown up on Monday and I haven't seen this spasm since. I have no reason to think that he ate another rock because he has not been alone outside - he gets chaperoned and there is nothing on the ground for him to eat. 

Here is a quick video of the spasm. He does not seem to be in distress but does stand up until the spasm stops. He refused a piece of cheese with Gas-X in it which is unusual - he usually doesn't turn it down. I am not hearing any stomach squeals but Gas-X was resulting in a big belch from him dueing last week's incident so I was going to give it just in case. 

Anyone seen this kind of spasm previously? X-Rays last week didn't show anything other than the rock which was removed. This only lasts a couple minutes and then he goes back to normal. He's sleeping on his bed as I type this. 

 

[Jerilyn]

It seems a bit fast but maybe hiccups?  Wiki had them once, I had never seen a dog with them before. 

[Time4ANap]

12 minutes ago, Jerilyn said:

It seems a bit fast but maybe hiccups?  Wiki had them once, I had never seen a dog with them before. 

No noise from the stomach and other than the belch with the Gas-X there's no noise, nothing coming from the mouth. The vet we saw last week has been a vet for 23 years and described it as "weird" when she viewed a video of it. We started using a dental additive that gets mixed into the food about 2 months ago and I'm wondering if he has an allergy or sensitivity to something in it. I think we will eliminate that and see if this stops even though they are random occurrences. We have to start somewhere. 

[ramonaghan]

Willa's had hiccups a few times since we adopted her (I'd never seen that before either) and they've been silent but much slower.  The allergy theory's a good one, but I'd also be inclined to try again to get that Gas-X in him. I assume the poop was/has been normal—no straining?

Edited January 28, 2023 by ramonaghan

[Time4ANap]

14 minutes ago, ramonaghan said:

Willa's had hiccups a few times since we adopted her (I'd never seen that before either) and they've been silent but much slower.  The allergy theory's a good one, but I'd also be inclined to try again to get that Gas-X in him. I assume the poop was/has been normal—no straining?

Poop normal, no straining, normal appetite etc.  As a doctor once said about me, "the worst case of normal I've ever seen." 

I will try some lunch meat or a piece of hot dog with the Gas-X. This is a dog who never turns down cheese so I guess we have to go to something with better smells. 

EDIT - Gas-X on board. What were the odds he'd like Boar's Head Roast Beef? 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Time4ANap

[FiveRoooooers]

Having the x-rays is great. I think the next thing I would have to consider is getting an abdominal ultrasound. If he’s turning down a reliable treat that is concerning. 

[Time4ANap]

2 minutes ago, FiveRoooooers said:

Having the x-rays is great. I think the next thing I would have to consider is getting an abdominal ultrasound. If he’s turning down a reliable treat that is concerning. 

That was my thought too. I will send the new video to the vet but it will be Monday before I hear anything back. The E-Vet is our only option on the weekend, so as long as this doesn't turn into any kind of emergency and he's not in any distress we will just be monitoring him. 

[ramonaghan]

37 minutes ago, Time4ANap said:

What were the odds he'd like Boar's Head Roast Beef? 

Aww, one of Sweep's late in life discoveries. She loved that stuff!

I hope you all have an uneventful weekend. You've had enough drama for a while.

[macoduck]

Lower back spasms rather than belly?  Is his walking gait normal?

[Time4ANap]

1 hour ago, macoduck said:

Lower back spasms rather than belly?  Is his walking gait normal?

Definitely belly spasms. He is the most normal dog ever except for the fluttering abdomen. 

 

2 hours ago, ramonaghan said:

Aww, one of Sweep's late in life discoveries. She loved that stuff!

I hope you all have an uneventful weekend. You've had enough drama for a while.

We have company this week so we bought the good stuff. 

Thanks! 

[kudzu]

1 hour ago, macoduck said:

Lower back spasms rather than belly? …

Something back related is what I thought of when watching the video. I see the twitching/spasm like movement in abdominal area but I’ve seen something like that, slower & to a lesser degree, in a dog with back issues. It was some type of pain response that built up into strange stress panting. The combo ending up looking similar to a dog about to heave but in much more rapid, repetitive movements. I can’t think of how to describe it. It was reminiscent of the video, though still not as fast as  your video.

Edited January 28, 2023 by kudzu

[ramonaghan]

How was everyone's night?

[Time4ANap]

2 hours ago, ramonaghan said:

How was everyone's night?

All quiet. Everyone went outside at 4AM because apparently that seemed like a good time to go out in the middle of the night. 

Mark still has the spasms happening off and on but they really aren't impacting anything and are fairly mild. No heaving, no obvious pain whether belly or spine related, peeing and pooping normally.

I am going to take a urine sample in on Monday as I noticed a strong odor outside that makes me think his urine has a strange odor. Will check for a UTI, but I think that's going to be a separate issue from the spasms. I suspect we are going to need to check bloodwork and do an ultrasound to find out what's going on.. I think he's due for his senior panel in March anyway, so we can do that a little early. 

Thanks for checking. 

[Houndtime]

14 hours ago, Time4ANap said:

Poop normal, no straining, normal appetite etc.  As a doctor once said about me, "the worst case of normal I've ever seen." 

I will try some lunch meat or a piece of hot dog with the Gas-X. This is a dog who never turns down cheese so I guess we have to go to something with better smells. 

EDIT - Gas-X on board. What were the odds he'd like Boar's Head Roast Beef? 

I would say that the odds were very good.  I've only seen those motions when our dog would be trying bring something up, like grass.  Also, much slower than that.  I hope he feels better.

[greysmom]

My first thought was perhaps the rock caused an ulcer or other internal issue that was causing some sort of pain spasming.    It does look a bit like hiccupping spasms or really fast reverse sneezing spasms, but with no sound coming out it's super weird.  I think hiccupping is related to a nerve spasm, so perhaps it's more that sort of thing.    Are his abdominal muscles engaging during a attack or is his abdomen more soft?

I think all those things - lab work, urinalysis, fecal too - are in order, along with an ultrasound and maybe a quick xray just to be thorough.  Next time it happens see if you can check his heart rate while it's going on and compare it to his normal resting heartrate.  Can you feel a femoral pulse?  Is he ataxic at all during an episode?  Is he responding neurologically or totally checked out like during a seizure?  Temperature change? Drooling?  Nystagmus or other eye movements?

What's his recovery period like afterward?  Are they all the same length?

Just some questions off the top of my head.   

[Time4ANap]

21 minutes ago, greysmom said:

My first thought was perhaps the rock caused an ulcer or other internal issue that was causing some sort of pain spasming.    It does look a bit like hiccupping spasms or really fast reverse sneezing spasms, but with no sound coming out it's super weird.  I think hiccupping is related to a nerve spasm, so perhaps it's more that sort of thing.    Are his abdominal muscles engaging during a attack or is his abdomen more soft?

I think all those things - lab work, urinalysis, fecal too - are in order, along with an ultrasound and maybe a quick xray just to be thorough.  Next time it happens see if you can check his heart rate while it's going on and compare it to his normal resting heartrate.  Can you feel a femoral pulse?  Is he ataxic at all during an episode?  Is he responding neurologically or totally checked out like during a seizure?  Temperature change? Drooling?  Nystagmus or other eye movements?

What's his recovery period like afterward?  Are they all the same length?

Just some questions off the top of my head.   

Everything is literally normal during the spasm. There is no change to anything else, no panting, no pulse change etc. He did have a rapid heart beat during the spasms when the rock was in his stomach, but this is 5 days later before the next spasm occurred and there's no rhyme or reason to when it occurs. Sometimes he is just walking around or standing still with the spasm happening, but it's not impeding his walking and he's not heaving like he was when the rock first went in. We only see it when he is standing or walking and not every time - it's very random. He is as normal as his normal gets in all other respects. 

I opened a new can of Purina Salmon and Beef food last night before it started, of which he only had a spoonful as a topper on his meal. I don't know if he had any of that food last week when this started so I'm going to stop giving him that one and see if the spasm subsides. I'm still thinking some kind of sensitivity to food or one of his supplements is a possibility. 

 

[EllenEveBaz]

No experience of ideas, so will just send good thoughts.  

[FiveRoooooers]

4:00am, sigh. 

Do you notice the spasms only when Mark is standing or also when he’s lying down? Just curious. 

[Time4ANap]

2 hours ago, FiveRoooooers said:

4:00am, sigh. 

Do you notice the spasms only when Mark is standing or also when he’s lying down? Just curious. 

Standing, although when the rock was in there spasms were noticeable lying down also. 

I had a thought a little while ago that we'd better do a hookworm check on Monday since he was eating poop when the rock went in. Greysmom also suggested a fecal which made me think about hooks.  The dogs haven't been out of the yard for quite a while as we haven't been walking during the 8 weeks or so that I had the flu, but you know how that goes. They were hook positive a year ago when they came here and we've had lots of clean fecals since, but you just never know and it's easy enough to check. We have no signs of hooks though and they've all been on their monthly preventatives since we eradicated the hooks with the Modified Prison Protocol. 

Not checking something this basic is what will ultimately bite us. 

[FiveRoooooers]

How is Mark doing? 

[Time4ANap]

1 hour ago, FiveRoooooers said:

How is Mark doing? 

All normal. No more spasms that we've seen. 

Urine and stool samples went tothe vet today. Vet appt late Wednesday.  Urine was really dark so probably good that we are checking it. 

[Time4ANap]

Just an Update - Urine and Fecal checks are all good.  Vet appointment tomorrow just to follow up and decide if we should do one more x-ray or an ultrasound. There have been no more spasms since Friday night.  I also stoppped the dental additive in his food after that one and there has been no spasm or obvious stomach discomfort since. I'm leaning toward waiting to see if the spasms continue now that the dental additive has been stopped before moving forward with x-ray or ultrasound. 

The dental additive was a Vetriscience product that some other owners have good results with, and his teeth did improve while using it. Not worth it if it causes tummy issues though.