Came Home To Blood Everywhere:(

[Guest Avisher224]

Okay, I need your advice greyhound community. We recently became a three dog household- Orion, ten year old I've had seven years, Turbo, five year old we adopted in December and Maverick, 2 year old we adopted last month. Overall, I thought everyone was jiving okay.... we had one incident where Maverick bit Orion over their food bowls (it was just a surface wound) but I had pulled Maverick away several times so in hindsight, felt that I was a major contributor to the incident. I've fed Maverick by himself since and haven't noticed any aggressive behavior over treats, toys or space since. Turbo gets along with everyone- he grumps and growls occasionally over space but so far it's just vocal (he's generally very vocal) and he has zero aggressive body language to go along with it (like doesn't even pick up his head most of the time). He's very shy and laid back so I just can't imagine him having aggression towards anyone and Orion has much the same personality so Maverick (who is a feisty, mouthy alpha type) is clearly the main suspect for today's incident.

 

I came home from work and the boys greeted me at the door like normal... until I noticed something all over Orion's head... which turned out to be blood... which was also dripping pretty heavily out of his ear. I'm not even 100% sure of the extent of the damage- I couldn't bring myself to examine it, I just wrapped him in a towel and immediately took him to the e-vet. He is currently having it stitched back together and I'm praying he'll be okay (I hate ever having to put them under, but especially at his age!)

 

Obviously I've been very upset all night... like I said, my gut feeling is that Maverick is behind it. While we were at the vet, I was convinced I would come home and not even be able to look at Maverick and that I would be contacting the adoption group to return him tomorrow but I felt less certain of this when I came home. He is a very sweet dog- a very feisty puppy of a dog, but still very loving (he's curled up next to me on the couch right now).

 

I have no idea what happened today. I'm assuming Maverick did it, but I don't know. We have a large sectional that the dogs sleep on a lot and the two middle seat cushion were on the floor so I think this was the scene of the crime. There weren't any toys in the immediate area (and Orion rarely picks up toys and am I 100% sure he would immediately relinquish one if challenged). Was there a fight over space? Did someone step on a cushion wrong and fall and this somehow caused an issue? Was it an attempt at play gone wrong? In the end, I know I will never know the answer and this is what is making me question my first reaction of returning Maverick. He was already returned once (supposedly for snapping at his owner but who ever really knows the full story in these situations) and I hate to give up on him.

 

I know there's an easy immediate situation- muzzles, which obviously will be in play in the short term no matter what. Ironically, I made Orion and his original adoptive brother (who we lost last year to osteo) wear their muzzles for YEARS before they earned the right to be home alone without them... clearly my comfort with them made me complacent in future situations and that is my mistake. I just feel like they look so uncomfortable and Maverick bashes his into EVERYTHING when he wears his so I'm unsure one, I can keep iy on him all day and two, he won't trash my house going nuts with it on. Anyone know of any soft muzzle solutions?

 

I just don't know if it's fair to Orion to risk keeping Maverick. He's ten so I know I'm in my final stretch with him (heart is breaking just thinking about this, I would truly clone this dog if I could, he's so wonderful), he deserves to enjoy his senior years in the same spoiled style as he's had the past seven years. Frankly, Orion will win if I have to chose between them, I just don't know if I'm jumping to conclusions thinking Maverick did something maliciously and hate to give up on him with that unknown in my mind.

 

Advice? Thoughts? Please be kind.... I understand how this could have been avoided and promise I will never stop beating myself up for it, so no need to do so as well.

[palmettobug]

It happens! Separating and muzzles and consult a certified behaviorist.

[Time4ANap]

With blood coming out of his ear, I would ask the vet's opinion based on the trauma they find to the skin. Jagged like a bite or bites occurred, or a split, more like a blunt trauma indicating a fall. Even if it was a scuffle, it could have been one of those where someone stepped on someone and got a reaction.

 

The typical soft muzzles for long snouts are for very short use only, not something that can be left on all day since the dog can't drink with it on. We use one for vet exams or maybe a quick bath, but pretty much nothing else.

 

Sounds like you are actually more in control of the situation than you think you are, as your details are well written and thought out.

 

Might be time for a webcam or a Nest cam monitoring the main area they hang out in during the day so you can see what's going on. Otherwise, crating would be the other option, but not one I would want to go back to either.

 

Good luck.

[Guest Avisher224]

With blood coming out of his ear, I would ask the vet's opinion based on the trauma they find to the skin. Jagged like a bite or bites occurred, or a split, more like a blunt trauma indicating a fall. Even if it was a scuffle, it could have been one of those where someone stepped on someone and got a reaction.

 

The typical soft muzzles for long snouts are for very short use only, not something that can be left on all day since the dog can't drink with it on. We use one for vet exams or maybe a quick bath, but pretty much nothing else.

 

Sounds like you are actually more in control of the situation than you think you are, as your details are well written and thought out.

 

Might be time for a webcam or a Nest cam monitoring the main area they hang out in during the day so you can see what's going on. Otherwise, crating would be the other option, but not one I would want to go back to either.

 

Good luck.

Thank you time4anap! I had also thought of asking the vet for any thoughts based on the wound so I will be sure to do so. Ive looked at doggie cams multiple times so I think Ill definitely invest in one after this no matter what- worth the potential for peace of mind when something like this happens.

[greysmom]

Muzzles are the easy answer, but I have a "basher" too, and nothing delicate survives her epic bashiness!

 

I think definitely separate them as much as possible. Maverick *may* mature out of this phase, but then again, maybe not. And your senior deserves to be safe in his own home.

 

So try and identify three locations where they can see each other, but still be securely separated while you're gone. If you're gone all day for work, they will also need water available.

 

A consult with a certified behaviorist could also help you manage your multi dog household. Patricia McConnell also has a great book on that subject.

[smurfette]

When I added Paddy to the pack years ago Andy gave him a hard time (bit him 2 times). I started putting muzzles on them when I left and let them have the whole house. I wanted them to be able to separate on their own behalf. I also put up twice as much dog beds as I had dogs to prevent space aggression. It took time but it worked.

The first incident appeared after living together for 3 month. Paddy was a young and crazy boy and Andy as the reserved older gentleman took offence of him being crazy.

[BatterseaBrindl]

Sorry this has happened

Hope Orion heals up quickly.

 

Even with an established calm pack we always muzzle. Accidents happen in a split second.

[Guest Avisher224]

Good news and bad new this morning... bad news is Orion is still at the vet, as he's taking longer than normal to get out of the anesthesia. Vet thinks it's because of how worked up he was while we were waiting (we were there for at least an hour and he paced the entire time, despite the fact that the pain meds were making him super woozy and his legs could barely hold him up). Checking back at 3 and really hoping he can come home then.

 

Good news is the vet did NOT think it was a bite! Basically the skin from the bottom half of the outside of his ear was completely scrapped off but there were no punctures to be found. She thought he had gotten in caught somewhere and pulled it out quickly and just ripped the skin off. I'm guessing it got "caught" underneath someone else's foot and he whipped his head back to get out of the way. I feel much better knowing it was very likely an accident of some sort, not a fight or an attack.

[Time4ANap]

Good news and bad new this morning... bad news is Orion is still at the vet, as he's taking longer than normal to get out of the anesthesia. Vet thinks it's because of how worked up he was while we were waiting (we were there for at least an hour and he paced the entire time, despite the fact that the pain meds were making him super woozy and his legs could barely hold him up). Checking back at 3 and really hoping he can come home then.

 

Good news is the vet did NOT think it was a bite! Basically the skin from the bottom half of the outside of his ear was completely scrapped off but there were no punctures to be found. She thought he had gotten in caught somewhere and pulled it out quickly and just ripped the skin off. I'm guessing it got "caught" underneath someone else's foot and he whipped his head back to get out of the way. I feel much better knowing it was very likely an accident of some sort, not a fight or an attack.

 

That's great news about the wound. Sort of goes with the "someone stepped on someone else" theory.

 

Hope your boy comes out of anesthesia shortly and feels better soon.

[Guest Avisher224]

So, can't quite report the happy ending I was hoping for.... The e-vet was keeping Orion because his blood glucose was low and would drop down every time they took him off the IV and he was so worked up and panicky that he refused to eat and needed to be sedated. I had NO idea any of this was going on until I just showed up there at 5, assuming he'd be ready to go. After hours of them screwing around, we finally ended up signing him out (against their medical advice) and taking him home to see if we could get him to calm down and to eat. We stayed up with him all night, using a syringe to get any food we could into him and rubbing Karo syrup on him gums to make sure he his BG didn't drop into seizure range... yeah, it was a terrible night already and to make it even worse, we had an incident with Turbo and Maverick in the midst of it.

 

We'd set up Orion in our family room and had blocked the other two dogs out with a chair so they wouldn't come in and step on him or try and get any of the food we were trying to get him to eat. At one point, I got up and turned off the overhead light and almost as soon as I laid back down with Orion, a fight broke out between the other two. It ended quick but it had sounded more serious than just the normal play fight, so I examined them both and found a large swollen mass on Turbo's neck. No broken skin, but with it being on his neck, ALL I could think of was that it was his jugular and he was going to bleed out within his body (granted, I have no idea if this could even happen, I just thought neck=jugular=evet, so off we went).

 

Fortunately, he is fine, the swelling went down pretty quick and he has one hell of a bruise. Orion is doing okay too... still haven't gotten him to eat any kibble, but he ate some chicken and some canned Science Diet A/D this morning and is starting to get up and walk around a little more. Of course, we're going to the vet this afternoon for follow up.

 

The current issue is (of course) Maverick....I'm still fairly certain the ear event was an accident but Maverick biting Turbo was not. I still don't know exactly why it happened- we had given then a couple bones earlier to keep them quiet earlier and they were still around but neither had been chewing them when I got up. My guess is that Turbo stepped on Maverick (Mav had been laying on the floor and Turbo was standing by the chair in the doorway when I got up) and Maverick reacted by jumping up and biting him.

 

Yesterday I really thought my only option was to return him to the adoption group but as we talked about it more, my husband and I both felt unsure if we were jumping the gun and giving up on him too soon. He has only been with us for just over a month, he was already returned once and that night was a WAY outside of the normal situation (we know both dogs were pissed at being kept out of the room with us and Orion, all three are pretty much velco dogs, so they don't often voluntarily hang out in another room if one of their humans is sitting down somewhere that they could be hanging out with them). I didn't see the fight, so I don't know the level of aggression- did Mav go for Turbo's neck purposely or was he just trying to get up and get Turbo away and it happened to land there? Can I have ANY level of trust in Mav now or am I just biding my time until the next incident?

 

We're still going to talk to the adoption group- like several said earlier, perhaps we can consult a behavioral specialist who can give advice on if we can actually make this work or if he'd just be best in a different situation.

[PaddysDad]

I'm sorry to hear all this with the other doggie health stuff going on. I hope everything works itself out and Orion is feeling better soon.

[EllenEveBaz]

When I got my first second dog (hoping that makes sense), I thought the dogs were getting along great and then came home from work about week 6 to find bites on each dog. Adoption program director told me there's often a honeymoon period of about 1 month when you bring in a new hound -- then everybody figures out this is permanent, and there's a fight for position. There was never a major disagreement again, to my knowledge, and no similar situation with subsequent dogs.

 

I muzzled for a long while with the standard plastic "basket" style muzzles. So what if they don't like it? If one bangs his against things, babygate him if you can in a room where he can not cause much damage but can still see the others. I started leaving mine unmuzzled again when I saw them doing things together outside -- checking out smells together, running together. Walking together is a great bonding tool. I hope you're able to walk together daily. I don't really buy into the total "human must be pack leader" thing, but I did do a lot of obedience work around potential trouble spots -- on/off the couch, the food bowls, etc. -- to get them more used to not having things all their way. I fed them, gave them treats, leashes on/off, did everything in the same 1-2 order with the established dog always first and the new arrival last. The Turbo-Maverick incident -- I think it probably went beyond their being pissed at being kept out of the room. Orion was not himself; you and your DH were upset -- I think the other two dogs were feeling all the emotion and bad vibes.

 

One more suggestion -- exercise. Since Maverick is really just a big puppy, he may need a lot more exercise than your older ones. A tired dog is a happy dog. Sending healing thoughts for Orion and best wishes for all your threesome.

[Plateialumitar]

Seconding what Ellen said about exercise. I adopted a 2 year old boy at the start of this year, and I admit I bought into what I had read everywhere about how lazy greyhounds are, and wasn't fully prepared for how much pep a 2 year old has compared to an older dog. Our boy does exceedingly well overall, it has to be said. He's just very playful and I remain convinced he NEEDS to run on a semi regular basis to let off steam. Walking is great, but there he gets ants in his pants that are only solved through some zoomies in the garden. I've altered his diet and seen a little improvement (he definitely gets hyper on James Wellbeloved), but there is a baseline of energy that he won't fall below until he's had a proper dash about and he can be quite a pest when he hasn't had it.

[Guest BrendaB]

Hi all, I just couldn't resist adding my experience to this thread, even though you've already had lots of really good advice here. We have a whippet who is now 10 yrs old. When she was around 7 we adopted a young female greyhound - Blinky - as we'd always had two dogs and liked greyhounds (but this was our first grey). To be honest, we found Blinky very challenging from the start (yes, greys are different). I read everything I could on greyhounds and we went to classes and had a behaviorist come to the house. It seemed like we would get through one behavior (resource guarding, growling, etc) and another would come up (nipping and pulling our clothes). She didn't become leash reactive until she was with us for about 4-6 months. This became extreme (growling and snapping at another dog miles away) but with classes and patience we managed to get that way down to almost nothing. She would go to daycare occasionally and socialize amazingly well. She was good with dogs that came into our house. I could go on and on but will get to my point.

From early on, Blinky seemed to want to dominate Lily a bit. She would stand over her occasionally, try to keep her from the water dish, and Lily would spend most of her time under the dining room table. However they seemed to mostly get along and would even play tug o war after about a year. They ate together, slept in same room, and were left alone together all the time without incident. About a year and a half in, I was walking the two of them and Blinky went for a carcass on the side of the sidewalk. When I pulled her back the went after Lily and the two of them scrapped. Lily ended up with exactly the type of injury your dog had - the skin was pulled off the base of the ear - lots of blood but they couldn't do stitches. I thought this was partly my fault so as upsetting as it was, I just vowed to be more careful. Over the next couple months it seemed to happen randomly every once in awhile. Blinky would be statuing, and after trying to coax her I pulled on the leash gently and she went after Lily (who was about 10 feet away). Blinky's health checked out ok and she was well behaved otherwise. The final straw came when I picked them up from a kennel which they loved and had been at several times over the previous 2 years. Blinky came out first, and when they brought out Lily, Blinky went after her. It seemed to be clearly out of jealously and being keyed up? The staff were shocked as the two had played well all week. Unfortunately Lily needed 10 stitches this time and seemed very depressed and wary of Blinky. After talking to the rescue organization we decided it wasn't fair to Lily and it seemed to be escalating, so Blinky was returned to them. This was such a painful decision and I cry again just writing about it.

Since then I have done tons of "research" to see if we could have avoided this situation and have concluded: probably not. I wish we had returned her when we saw her initial dominance (instead of falling in love with her) but I'm sure that this issue can sometimes be worked out? What I have learned is that sometimes dogs have a need to be "top dog" and if it escalates like it did here, the situation may not be workable. Just thought you should know that it's still probable the initial injury was caused by the other dog (I've seen it happen in front of me) and its not really fair to the other dogs to be unsafe in their own home? The upshot is Lily is thriving as an only dog again. Good luck!

 

 

[stormnw]

I don't have any additional advice to give, but just wanted to share best wishes for Orion's recovery and hope that the adoption group can provide some helpful advice and support to help the pack maintain peace in the house.

[XTRAWLD]

Curious to hear how the Maverick situation played out for you. If you are willing to update us, we are hear to listen and learn.

[Guest Avisher224]

Hi all,

 

Thanks so much for your advice and support! To provide a quick update... .Maverick is still hanging in with us. We were pretty set at asking our adoption group to rehome him but (LONG story short) they were less than supportive and helpful so we quickly nixed that idea. Fortunately, we found another resource who has a lot of experience with challenging greyhound personalities and they're helping us work towards safely integrating Maverick into our household. Both newer boys are currently being crated when we're gone and Mav is sleeping in his crate (he seems to really like his crate and seems to be better behaved in general now that he has his own safe space). Muzzles are also in play anytime we're not around to supervise. We're also working heavily on obedience training and earning privileges for things like getting on the couch and having toys (ie if you so much as side eye another dog with a toy, it's gone). I think it's going to take some work and will be quite some time before I trust them to all hang out together unsupervised again (and, honestly, it'll probably always be with muzzles if it's more than a couple minutes) but I think it can be done!

[palmettobug]

Good for you! Positive, bonding experiences for all.

[ramonaghan]

Great update! You sound so much more optimistic! I am thrilled you found the support you needed and are making progress. I hope things continue to improve with Maverick.

[BatterseaBrindl]

 

As much as we all want our dogs to be BFF and snuggle buddies, that is not often the case.

My current three do get along very well 99% of the time, but it only takes a split second for 'something' to snap.

Ours are always muzzled if we are not here.

[Alyse]

I don't have a grey yet, so don't have any advice, but i'm happy to hear you found a group to help you out! Also kind of sad to hear that the original group wasn't very supportive I hope you can find a solution for your pack with the help you're getting. I have a current dog in the house and once the grey comes home, it will be a different dynamic. thank you for sharing your story as sometimes we help more people than just ourselves by posting.