Issues With 6-Year-Old Son

[katiedid1281]

Hello! I'm new to this board and a relatively new owner of a greyhound. We've always had a dog but never a greyhound. We rescued Rue about five months ago. He is 3.5 years old and retired from racing after breaking his leg. He's a pretty large but very sweet greyhound. He loves everyone he meets, canine or human. We actually had been thinking of trying to get him certified as a therapy dog and he is in obedience class working toward this.

 

Our 6-year-old son was initially fearful of Rue due to his size, but that probably lasted a day and now he loves Rue. Rue seemed to like him at first too, but their relationship has been slowly going downhill. My son is very gentle with him. He doesn't hug him or try to kiss him or stick his face in Rue's face. He knows not to disturb him if he's asleep or laying on his bed. He mostly just wants to gently pat him. But he is 6 so of course he's loud and bouncy and moves unpredictably.

 

After a few weeks of having Rue, we noticed that he would walk away if my son tried to approach him to pat him, so we instructed our son not to follow him if he walked away. It was doggie language for wanting to be left alone.

 

A month or two after we got him, Rue discovered the couch. He sleeps there most of the time. One day, my son was playing fairly quietly on the floor with toys (quietly for a 6 year old anyway) and Rue was on the couch. My son must have gotten too close because he barked at him. Of course he has a very deep bark so it startled us and I made Rue get off the couch. From that point on, we did not allow Rue on the couch when my son was in the room. Rue also once gave him a little bark when he had his Kong on his bed and my son was all the way across the room standing in the doorway talking to me.

 

Yesterday, my son asked if he could pat Rue, who was laying on the couch awake. I said yes, since he's never had issues being approached while laying down as long as he is awake. He doesn't even care if you lean over him to pat him (we never allowed my son to do this but we did it occasionally). More pats the better usually. So we patted him together for a few seconds and next thing I know Rue kind of barked/snarled and snapped at my son. He made contact with his arm and left a small abrasion but didn't break the skin. Once I made sure he was OK, I made Rue get off the couch and he will definitely not be allowed on it in the future during the day when we are home. I am on the fence about allowing him up at night or when we are at work/school all day.

 

I'm sad about this because our last dog didn't totally love my son either (but he was very old already when my son was born so I expected that) and I really wanted a dog who at least liked him a little. I'm also worried because I don't feel he gave much warning before snapping. His ears were back as they always are unless there's food or a squirrel around. He didn't growl or even yawn or lick his lips.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

[DofSweetPotatos]

Sounds like Rue considers the couch a safe space, just as the bed is too. If your son wants to pet Rue, then call Rue over rather than going to. Perhaps a treat from your son to rue would be a nice little bonus during that time.

Those with more toddler experience will chime in with better advice than mine.

But, let sleeping dogs lie is sage advice. Even when they seem awake, let them be.

Edited January 18, 2017 by DofSweetPotatos

[katiedid1281]

We are for sure going to do that. I told my husband he has to stop patting him when he's laying down too! It's just harder because... well, he's pretty much always laying down.

[Hubcitypam]

A lot of dogs are unnerved by pats vs. strokes (especially on the head) and small children seem to always want to pat doggies on the head. Don't know if that's what is happening and I probably know nothing, but perhaps work with your son on petting/stroking vs. patting and avoid the head. That might help on one front.

[Scoutsmom]

Many grey's are nervous around small kids--they just aren't used to them and they do move and act differently. He may have now become comfortable enough in your home that he feels he can express preferences and his preference is not to deal with your son.

I suggest that you teach your dog to associate good things with your son. Can your son be the person that actually puts down his food dish at mealtime? He's probably a little young to actually prepare it. You also should try having your son give treats. Initially have him stand a comfortable distance from the dog and throw the treat towards the dog (but not at the dog ; )). Have him work at throwing the treat closer and closer to himself and not the dog. Eventually, have him give the treat directly to the dog.

 

In addition, you might try using double leashes when walking your dog. Your son is much too young to actually walk the dog by himself, but he can if you are holding the other leash. Let him be the one closest to the dog's head and the one who decides where they are going and when they are going to start and stop. He needs to be seen by the dog as the leader.

 

You mention that you are worried that there was no warning before the snap today. Have you scolded him for growling/barking at your son. That is not a good thing to do as the growling/barking is his way of warning that he is approaching a snap/bite. If you teach him not to do it, he will go directly to the snap with no warning. Also watch his body language very carefully to determine when he is upset. Greyhound body language can be a lot more subtle than other dogs, but it is there.

 

Good luck, this can be worked out.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Scoutsmom

[smurfette]

As written above - let your son and your grey do something together that involves super yummie treats. He can call him to come - super treat. He can hide the treat and let the dog search for it. He can walk past the dog and accidently drop a treat.

Rue has to learn that your son is the one to give him those super treats. Than he will start looking forward to interact with him. But still - don't disturb when he is asleep.

[XTRAWLD]

It's been my experience that greyhounds don't really know what these short 2 legged hoomins are, and as you have mentioned, have unpredictable movements, or even squeaks!

 

5 months also might not be long enough for your greyhound to be used to your household or routine. Remember this is a big change for him too, and if he recently discovered something new like that couch....well it's new and he's sorting things out in his own way too now isn't he? Doggie needs a safe place and a place to get away from little hoomin, as does little hoomin needs safe place from doggie. Boundaries are helpful, and perhaps preventing couch privileges is a good way to start.

 

Also as you have noted, the situation seems to get progressively worse. A growl wasn't enough, then a bark wasn't enough, so a bite happened. A child cannot read dog cues.

 

Work with your pup and your child to create a positive experience, one mentioned above with food, etc. I'm sure more will chime in that have better experience with this.

[3greytjoys]

Welcome to GreyTalk! Congratulations on your recent Greyhound adoption!

 

I'd agree with others to completely eliminate your new hound's sofa privileges for many reasons (present and future). Consider as your son grows, he will want to have friends visit and sit on the humans' furniture. Just like consistency is important for children, same holds true for dogs. Considering the dog's perspective, it's not fair to allow him on the sofa only sometimes but not other times, and then expect him to abide by confusing, inconsistent rules. Cushy padded dog beds in a safe place (away from traffic paths) are much safer for families with dogs. Dogs can feel relaxed and secure knowing their own dog bed is their undisturbed, happy, forever safe zone.

 

Hubcitypam brought up a good point about soft strokes vs. pats (preferably on a dog's shoulder, side or upper thigh). Additionally, dogs often prefer their fur be stroked in the same direction as it's growth pattern.

 

Oh yes, we completely understand that Greys are often in a recumbent position. That said, it's preferred to wait until dogs are standing up and have walked away from their safe bed zone before petting.

 

Sometimes dogs' signs of discomfort are almost too subtle to notice: in addition to your points, could be a quick eye glance away, brief expression freeze, furrowed brow, stiffening lips in a C-shape, brief head turn away, whale eye, etc. You're right, ear position signals for other breeds don't count for Greyhounds. I agree that if your hound offers the gift of a growl, it's a valuable communication warning of dog's discomfort to which humans should respect and back away. Since he didn't offer a warning growl, he's probably feeling his space is being invaded too often, and he's "running out of spoons". Spoon theory: http://yourdogsfriend.org/spoon-theory-and-funny-dog-gifs/

 

Gently tossing treats at home could be helpful. Walks can be especially exciting (or stressful) for some recently retired Greyhounds, so I'd caution against your son holding any part of the leash secondary to an adult handler until he's much bigger, and your Greyhound has settled into retirement much longer. Newly retired Greyhounds can be especially unpredictable during walks. They can see small critters or a small piece of litter blowing in the wind a half mile away and may attempt to chase, so it's safer to avoid having a small child connected in any way to the dog's leash or even walking between the adult handler with Greyhound.

 

As difficult as it is for your son, offering your new Greyhound extra personal space, and extra freedom to walk into a quiet room to retreat away from noise and activity will help their relationship long-term. Greyhounds are a wonderfully calm, quiet, and highly sensitive breed.

Edited January 19, 2017 by 3greytjoys

[katiedid1281]

Thank you all for the tips! Rue is extremely food motivated so I think having my son be the source of yummy things will go a long way with him. I had him toss Rue a few treats and he caught the very first one so both my son and Rue thought that was pretty awesome. Rue was looking at him very hopefully for the remainder of the morning.

 

Giving Rue a safe quiet space sounds great except that he pretty much follows us wherever we go! We had a bed back in our bedroom, where it is quiet, and he never laid on it, so we moved it out to the kitchen and he lays on it all the time watching us. I could maybe put his living room bed back further in the corner.

[katiedid1281]

I'm trying to post a picture but who knows if this will work! Oh, I give up...

Edited January 19, 2017 by katiedid1281

[GeorgeofNE]

Newbies can only post photos in Cute & Funny.

 

I hope you work something out.

[ramonaghan]

I think you can post anywhere as a newbie. The only limitation I know of is the avatar photo, which you can request (through a support ticket) after 50 posts. You have to use a web host to post photos, like Photobucket or Flickr; there are directions in the Technical forum if you do a search here. Or, if you have pics on Facebook, you should be able to right-click on them, Copy Image Address/Location, and then come back here and paste the URL in the image box (the Polaroid icon above the message box).

 

Sorry for your troubles and hope things improve with time and training. My hound has sleep-startle, and though we don't have kids in the house, I do understand how upsetting/scary it can be when a dog snaps. She's never tried to get on the furniture, so we just leave her alone when she's on her bed unless we are 100% sure she is alert and wants attention. She's very affectionate otherwise and we love her dearly, warts and all! Good luck to you.

[Acadianarose]

Our first greyhound was nervous and was very aggressive while on his bed or sleeping. We have had him about 3 1/2 years and that is pretty much gone. He tries to sleep with us most nights. He still gets nervous around strangers, but is fine with us.

 

The number one thing that helped the most was keeping a bowl filled with tiny treats near his bed and just drop one or two when we would walk by. It didn't take long for him to look at us expectantly anytime one of us would walk by.

 

My daughter was older than your son when we adopted Payton, but only about 3 years. She participated in the treat dropping, attended classes and everything else we did under supervision, which made a big difference.

 

We have several greyhounds in our family, and most of them don't like younger children I think that is because of the child behavior- just kids being kids. But with proper guidance, your son can learn to read the dog's signs and not make him nervous.

 

Making him get off the sofa was the right thing to do, but he needs a safe spot.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Acadianarose

[CeeEs]

I had aggression issues with my Darla when I got her. Unfortunately she never liked kids. So my kids and their friends were always instructed to ignore her. She was also not allowed on the furniture because she considered herself above my kids. I had the kids feed her but she never did get where she would choose their company. I really struggled with that at first, and whether to return her or not. Eventually both she and the kids realized she was just my girl; a one-person-dog. She definitely became my heart dog.

[heartdogs]

I know many people won't like this but put up a crate for his "safe" place. Remember racers sleep in crate like spaces so crates a safe places for them when in a house. I have crate that my boys eat in & the doors are open so they can go in to sleep if they want. Prince retires 7 years ago & still goes into a crate several times a day to nap. Stretch never raced but he still naps in a crate. Also young children have a higher pitch to their voices & many dogs don't care for the sound. Good luck.

[XTRAWLD]

I know many people won't like this but put up a crate for his "safe" place. Remember racers sleep in crate like spaces so crates a safe places for them when in a house. I have crate that my boys eat in & the doors are open so they can go in to sleep if they want. Prince retires 7 years ago & still goes into a crate several times a day to nap. Stretch never raced but he still naps in a crate. Also young children have a higher pitch to their voices & many dogs don't care for the sound. Good luck.

Crates do make great dogs. Kasey hated them, but Ryder LOVES them. It's a great safe place for some dogs that enjoy them and they know they can turn to them and not be harassed when in there.

[sarabz]

We're having similar issues with our boy Kirby whom we adopted in May. He is not, and has not, been allowed on the sofa or any other furniture but he is space aggressive. However, with a 3 year old and a small house, we can't respect the 5-10 feet that Kirby would prefer so there's a lot of growling and snarking at the boy, at us, at our other grey. Interestingly, if Kirby is not on his bed, he's fine - he often chooses to lie in the kitchen where I'm stepping over and around him, putting down the washing machine door on him, etc and he doesn't react at all.

 

Kirby HATES his crate and will whine, rub his face raw trying to get out, will poo and pee in it - it is very definitely not his happy place, even when we are not in the house. Our older girl Bella LOVES her crate and voluntarily goes in there for naps.

[katiedid1281]

I don't think a crate would work as a safe space because he hates it. He even managed to escape from it twice when one of the latches on the door wasn't quite closed all the way (still not sure how an 80 pound greyhound fit through the six inch gap he created!) He's also not helping himself. He wants to be in the middle of everything! Even if my son is being rambunctious and making him nervous. He really is Mr. Social.

 

Having my son feed him and give him treats seems to have helped. I can tell he's now more interested when my son walks in the room. He perks his ears up and looks at him very hopefully. I think he's gained a little weight though.