What To Feed? My Brain Hurts..

[Guest HeatherLee]

Hi everyone..

 

So I've been searching and searching through GreyTalk for topics on feeding and though there's a lot of good info I still can't find exactly what I'm looking for. I'd also like more specific advice if anyone wants to chime in. So here's the low down.

 

I have 2 Greyhounds

 

Hound #1, Gambler is a 5yo (will be 6 in February 2016) male. He weighs around 67-69. Coincidentally this was also his racing weight (If I'm reading the charts correctly). I will have had him for 3 years in January. I'm not deliberately trying to keep him at his racing weight, this just seems to be his normal maintenance weight. He usually gets about 3 cups (all together) of Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream dry kibble with a couple tablespoons of TOTW canned Southwest Canyon or High Prairie mixed in since he gets bored with his food. He typically eats a little less than this during summer when he's not exercising as much and a bit more during winter when he exercises and runs more. I was always able to free feed him and he was never one of those dogs that would eat until they pop or when they were already full.

 

HOWEVER... in the past couple months.. his poop isn't very firm anymore (it's never been very firm). He's taking much more time than usual to go. He's normally picky about where he goes, but all the sudden it takes 2-3 times longer for him to find a spot, and he strains more. He doesn't have diarrhea but its more like.. over ripe banana soft. And light green. He was healthy on his recent vet check. I'm inclined to think TOTW changed something. Even if they didn't I'd like to change feed since obviously something isn't agreeing with him.

 

--When I first adopted him, I fed Iams sensitive because I couldn't find anything that would firm up his poo. That worked great for a long time. At least I thought so.

--6 or so months ago I started feeding TOTW Pacific Stream and he was much less "snarky", had more energy and was more calm in general. I don't want to go back to Iams for this reason.

--I'm on the fence as to whether he's sensitive to chicken. The first months of adoption a chicken based food made him nauseous, as did any pieces of chicken we gave. Chicken was stopped, he was switched to fish based food and I avoided all chicken. However a few months ago he at some chicken jerky at a restaurant and was completely fine after.

--I do know he absolutely CANNOT have dairy. No Yogurt, no cheese, nothing.

--Pumpkin does nothing but make his diarrhea orange.

--Fish oil/ any oil added gives him an upset stomach (even if just a little)

 

 

Here's a recent pic:

 

Hound #2 is Holly, She just turned 3 on November 1st, weighs about 55lbs and I've had her since.. her birthday on the first this year She was eating Authority Chicken kibble at her foster home (which she was at for about 9 months). And did fine on that. I transitioned her over to TOTW these past few weeks because it's just easier to feed them both the same thing. She eats pretty much the same as Gambler, 3 cups a day. She doesn't get the wet food as much as I don't want to throw too many ingredients in her food yet. She however is a canine vacuum and will eat and eat and eat and always seems hungry. She isn't as sensitive as he is. She definitely has more energy than Gambler. However with the TOTW food, her poops are much softer, a little greenish, and she poops much more. I understand it hasn't been long and she could still be transitioning, but it makes me suspicious if they are both having issues.

 

Here's a pic of her (and me)

 

Their Exercise:

I live in an apartment so playing in a yard is not an option yet unfortunately. They get a 30-40 min walk in the morning. 15-20min in the evening, and another 30 or so around 8-9pm. I take them to a baseball field to run until they're tired once a week. Sometimes I can get there twice a week.

 

Ideally I'd like to give them the same food to make it easier, but is there a good chicken (and other bird) free dry food that's good and gentle on the stomach??? I would love to switch them to a raw diet but I'm worried about the cost / chicken element / space ( I live in an apartment). I'm still researching raw but need something they can thrive on in the meantime. Thoughts??

 

 

 

[Guest xengab]

Have you tried olweo carrorts? I'd switch them to another brand of fish based kibble (maybe blue buffalo?) and add in the carrorts to help ease them into it.

Could be a bad bag of food or something they changed. I'd switch to be safe and report it to TOTW.

[Guest HeatherLee]

Have you tried olweo carrorts? I'd switch them to another brand of fish based kibble (maybe blue buffalo?) and add in the carrorts to help ease them into it.

Could be a bad bag of food or something they changed. I'd switch to be safe and report it to TOTW.

 

I have tried Olewo carrots.. gave them both gas and diarrhea I'm going to try another fish based formula for now and I'll definitely try to report it to TOTW. I looked into Blue Buffalo.. but it seems like everything that have has chicken in it?

[Jerilyn]

Fromm has a number of foods in their Gold and 4-Star lines that are bird free. http://frommfamily.com/

They are a high quality, family owned company right here in Wisconsin.

[MaryJane]

Look at the Limited Ingredient dog foods -- like Natural Balance. They used to have a Venison and Sweet potato which used to work wonders with my foster dogs. And you are right, about 95% of the dog foods out there have chicken or chicken based oils in them.

 

The green poop is not something that I would want to see - could be they are getting into something.

 

As to the soft poop - try adding a few tablespoons of cooked oatmeal to their food - it has fiber which helps keep them regular.

 

 

edited to add - Acana is also a brand that has some "chicken free" foods.

Edited November 23, 2015 by MaryJane

[Wantsagrey]

Fromm Duck and Sweet Potato would be a good one to try, my vet recommended a duck and sweet potato for my parents Havanese, when we were trying to figure out if she was allergic to anything in her food. Now, all of our dogs eat it, and are doing very well on it.

[sarabz]

We've fed Acana for years and have been happy with it.

[greysmom]

If you're concerned about the cost, you need to find something that will work within your budget - duh. There are nice, commercial raw diets, but they are mostly very expensive to feed to large breed dogs.

 

Many people have reported problems with TOTW recently. They have change something in the recipe, or an igredient, or the source for an ingredient and some dogs are having issues.

 

I have a chicken intolerant dog and I feel your pain. She was NOT intolerant earlier in her life, and this only became an issue in the past two years. But that's also the nature of an intolerance/allergy - there has to be axposure to trigger the problem. With a chicken intolerance you have to check everything you buy commercially -food, canned food,and TREATS. Lilly can't even have the chicken fat/tocopherols that are listed at the end of the ingredients without getting nauseau and diarrhea.

 

We were feeding her the Blue Salmon and Sweet Potato until Blue got hit with a lawsuit for not listing the correct ingredients and of course, one of them was chicken. We also fed the Natural Balance Fish/SP, and a couple others. They are out there but you really have to read labels. I spent about 2 hours in Petsmart just reading ingredient lists on all their foods.

 

As you're looking for substitutes, be careful of other poultry like duck or turkey. Sometimes dogs with a chicken intolerance can handle them and sometimes they can't.

 

If your dogs have never had firm poop, the first thing to do is to deworm them, probably twice. Don't be surprised if they have negative fecal tests - hookworms are notorious for hiding in the system and you will only see evidence of them in a fecal test if you catch them at just the right time.

 

Then I would feed them a homecooked bland diet - a neutral carb source and a non-chicken protein source - for a week or so, to see how they respond. Carb sources to use include - overcooked pasta, overcooked rice (both made with broth), oatmeal, mashed white or sweet potatoes, chickpeas, regular green peas. Non-chicken protein - boiled hamburger, boiled ground turkey (if he can do this), poached tilapia or other whitefish or salmon. If things firm up, then TOTW was probably the culprit, and switch them to whatever food you have picked out.

 

If you want to add fiber - like the olewo carrots - you can also try dried beet pulp. Lots of dog foods use this for a fiber source. You can buy it in bulk in feed stores. It does need to be reconstituted before feeding.

[RedHead]

I thought someone here posted awhile back about TOTW causing issues. They wrote them a letter and the company said that the probiotics had been replaced (which is why the ingredient lists look the exactly the same).

 

Just found the link:

 

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/307962-is-anyone-else-out-there-having-issues-with-taste-of-the-wild/

 

In terms of kibble, my pup does well on Acana and I like the company.

 

The same ingredient can sometimes cause different reactions depending on how it is processed (I know dogs who are "allergic" to chicken kibble, but can eat plain baked or raw chicken just fine). Food issues are never easy to solve!

[Hubcitypam]

Low/no chicken kibbles might include:

 

Many Natural Balance LID as mentioned above

Pro Plan sensitive systems (salmon)

Purina One sensitive systems (salmon - but chicken cartilage is the 11th ingredient)

Pure Balance salmon and pea and bison and pea (Wal-Mart but don't faint...the bison and pea rates 4.5 stars on the sainted dog food advisor)

I went to heck and back finding something my Rex could eat so you have my sympathies.

[Guest HeatherLee]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Unfortunately Gambler can't handle anything with feathers, so duck and turkey are out. I did once try the new TOTW Venison formula with him and he flat out refused to eat it. Not going to blame that entirely on the Venison but at this moment it's enough reason for me to steer clear of it. After reading tons of labels and nixing the idea of going with Blue Basics Limited ingredient Salmon formula (because of the by-product lawsuit debacle)..I decided to go with Earthborn Coastal Catch. It was the closest (in formula and price) to TOTW without their probiotics. It is however higher in protein and fat which makes me a little nervous... but I'm sure it's better than the Kangaroo based kibble and $99 bag of "raw kibble" the girl at the pet store tried to sell me.

 

I'm crossing my fingers the Earthborn is at least as good as TOTW when I first started feeding it. Holly is eating it with no problem.. Gambler needed more convincing he should at least try it, but has eaten some today. I would have loved to do more research but I was out of the old food and I'm not about to keep feeding them something that might be making them nauseous. I'm still researching going raw though. When I say raw.. I don't mean commercial raw blends that are kibble, dehydrated or frozen (sorry but that just defeats the point of being raw.. not to mention they're stupid expensive.)

 

Also there will be vet visits to talk about the poop issue as well

[Remolacha]

When you are ready to make the leap to the dark side (go raw ) let me know and I will give you the information for Susie's co-op. Easier than running around to ten different grocery stores (to catch all the sales) and cheap than the commercial mixes.

[cleptogrey]

can gambler be sensitive to fats? how high is the fat level on their foods? that will cause loose stools.

 

lamb and rice combos have not been mentioned in the coversation. your dogs look fantastic, so if they are missing meals it's most likely because they don't need them. lucky you, self regulating feeders. also, consider rice as an add in to help bind gambler. easy, especially if you own a rice cooker, and affordable.

[sarabz]

I used to feed Earthborn and had great results on it We switched only because of.... well, I have no idea, honestly! Got caught up in the dog food mania, I think!

[Guest HeatherLee]

When you are ready to make the leap to the dark side (go raw ) let me know and I will give you the information for Susie's co-op. Easier than running around to ten different grocery stores (to catch all the sales) and cheap than the commercial mixes.

OH, I will have to do that! Are you doing to the desert dog get together ? http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/315773-desert-dog-get-together-20-arizona/

[Guest HeatherLee]

can gambler be sensitive to fats? how high is the fat level on their foods? that will cause loose stools.

 

lamb and rice combos have not been mentioned in the coversation. your dogs look fantastic, so if they are missing meals it's most likely because they don't need them. lucky you, self regulating feeders. also, consider rice as an add in to help bind gambler. easy, especially if you own a rice cooker, and affordable.

 

I think Gambler may be sensitive to fats? I have given him fish oil of another brand before and he did ok with it, poops were fine but it did nothing for his dry sky after a few months so I stopped giving it. That was about a year ago. I tried a new brand of salmon oil a month ago since it was what Holly was accustomed to at her foster home, but it made him nauseous... so ugh.. not sure. I don't see any slime in his poop..

 

His poop was a little better this morning having eaten Earthborn for one whole day, haha.. I'll have to watch and see how he tolerates it for the next couple weeks.

 

I have thought about Lamb and Rice.. might be the next thing if this doesn't work out.

 

I only have one self regulating eater... Gambler.. Holly will eat everything.. all day if I don't lock it up, haha. So now Gambler is on her schedule (it's actually making him a better eater)

 

I used to feed Earthborn and had great results on it We switched only because of.... well, I have no idea, honestly! Got caught up in the dog food mania, I think!

 

 

Haha.. yeh that's happened to me too.

[Remolacha]

OH, I will have to do that! Are you doing to the desert dog get together ? http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/315773-desert-dog-get-together-20-arizona/

I hope so, Conner has done something to his toe, but it's not broken, so I hope he'll be recovered by the time we go.

[XTRAWLD]

I would love to switch them to a raw diet but I'm worried about the cost / chicken element / space ( I live in an apartment). I'm still researching raw but need something they can thrive on in the meantime. Thoughts??

 

 

 

I feed raw that is ground. All the ratios are already correctly proportioned, they come in 2lb containers, simply thaw and feed. Up here I buy from a company called Big Country Raw. This is what they sell just so you can see the options.

 

http://www.bigcountryraw.ca/menu.php

 

That said, there may be a specialty pet store in your area that stocks something similar in their freezers and that's how you can get access. You may also be able to find a similar company close to you that specializes in ground raw. I have done the whole raw thing and it just took over my fridge and freezer. Doing it this way is no fuss. It can be a bit expensive depending on what you want to feed.

 

Re: Potential allergies or intolerance to some foods. You will find that just because a dog may not handle chicken in kibble, can handle raw chicken just fine. You mention that he doesn't agree with anything feathers....are you sure? Chicken and duck are in the same family, but not turkey, and next to chicken and pork, turkey is next on the cheap list. Just sayin'. I'm not sure your exact situ with the pup tolerances but there can be many things that are contributing factors to an unhappy tummy. Were there other ingredients in that kibble that didn't work? If you want to stay kibble, stick with LTD diets and do some food trials to see what works best. Kasey did very well on Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Fish for example, but nothing else worked as well as that in their menu lineup.

 

You may also find a dog that is not doing well on kibble, once transitioned to raw flourishes and many problems disappear.

Edited November 27, 2015 by XTRAWLD

[Guest HeatherLee]

I feed raw that is ground. All the ratios are already correctly proportioned, they come in 2lb containers, simply thaw and feed. Up here I buy from a company called Big Country Raw. This is what they sell just so you can see the options.

 

http://www.bigcountryraw.ca/menu.php

 

That said, there may be a specialty pet store in your area that stocks something similar in their freezers and that's how you can get access. You may also be able to find a similar company close to you that specializes in ground raw. I have done the whole raw thing and it just took over my fridge and freezer. Doing it this way is no fuss. It can be a bit expensive depending on what you want to feed.

 

Re: Potential allergies or intolerance to some foods. You will find that just because a dog may not handle chicken in kibble, can handle raw chicken just fine. You mention that he doesn't agree with anything feathers....are you sure? Chicken and duck are in the same family, but not turkey, and next to chicken and pork, turkey is next on the cheap list. Just sayin'. I'm not sure your exact situ with the pup tolerances but there can be many things that are contributing factors to an unhappy tummy. Were there other ingredients in that kibble that didn't work? If you want to stay kibble, stick with LTD diets and do some food trials to see what works best. Kasey did very well on Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Fish for example, but nothing else worked as well as that in their menu lineup.

 

You may also find a dog that is not doing well on kibble, once transitioned to raw flourishes and many problems disappear.

 

I believe there are a couple butcher shops/grocery stores here that sell already proportioned raw meals like that.. does the ground you get include bone?

 

As far as it being expensive, at this point it's looking like feeding raw (not commercial bagged raw) is going to be cheaper, and if it works, SO much less stress. Right now I kind of want to cry because I can't find the right food for them. *shakes fist at totw for changing their formula*

 

With allergies.. I've heard that about chicken. The only reason I say he can't tolerate chicken is because there have been times when he was just eating his kibble consistently, with no other treats or anything for weeks, and then he would get a piece of cooked chicken as a treat. The chicken was plain, boiled, no seasoning.. and boom.. diarrhea! This happened a couple times, and whenever he was given a treat with chicken in it (the other ingredients being things already in his current food that didn't cause a problem) he would get diarrhea. He doesn't get an itchy allergic reaction, he just gets D, gas, and won't eat for a day. So It just seemed more simple to me to just avoid anything chicken. I tried this with cooked turkey, and the same thing happened. So ugh. Not an allergic response, but a digestive one. BUT.. just in case you're thinking that the change is what upset his stomach (which is very possible I know).. I have done this with beef and he was totally fine. No issues at all.

 

I said "no feathers" because.. (and I'm sure I'll get banned from greytalk for this) but in my experience not many people who respond to threads on here actually read the original post and always suggest things I already said don't work. I just try to be super specific so I can ask "did you ACTUALLY read what I asked?" I get tired of having to post a resume on here every time I ask a question, because inevitably when I say "no kibble with chicken" someone will say, "have you tried the limited ingredient chicken and rice?" *facepalm*

 

I know you're right, not all birds are created equal. I'm willing to try a raw chicken diet with Gambler and see how he does on it. If not I can switch to turkey. I just feel bad if it's something he's really sensitive to, to keep giving it to him for the sake of waiting a couple weeks to see if his bm's improve. I'm just sick of all this damn dry dog food that looks unappetizing, and is full of stuff like blueberries, flaxseeds, clay, tomatoes, etc.. stuff I don't believe dogs should be eating. (tbh humans shouldn't be eating flaxseeds or clay either IMO)