tbhounds Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Ask for a script for enalapril instead of refilling the benazapril --it's $4 @ target & Walmart. As far as hypertrophic osteopathy being rare--sadly not so with ghs :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Is enalapril the exact same thing as benazapril? And as far as the hypertrophic osteopathy is concerned...that's pretty much game over, isn't it? Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Is enalapril the exact same thing as benazapril? And as far as the hypertrophic osteopathy is concerned...that's pretty much game over, isn't it? Sadly, once they are diagnosed with HO it's not a good outcome. You can use enalapril instead of benazapril--Couto uses enalapril if that helps. I think I would have limb radiographs done tomorrow before I did anything else if it was my hound. Be honest with your vet-discuss your concerns with them. I do wish Pinky well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I don't know what HO is, but assume the x-rays are related and are looking for osteo in the remaining limbs? If so, could you ask your vet to go limb by limb and look closely at the x-rays after each limb? It may be a little bit more difficult for everyone involved (getting her back on the table to do the next one), but it would be more cost effective if they do find it in one of the earlier limbs and can then stop. I don't envy you - I will probably always have pet insurance of some sort for my pets for this very reason. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Jen, I will too from now on. By the time I even knew there was such a thing, it was too late to get any sort of decent premium pricing with my current crew though. (HO=hypertrophic osteopathy) Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Jen, I will too from now on. By the time I even knew there was such a thing, it was too late to get any sort of decent premium pricing with my current crew though. (HO=hypertrophic osteopathy) It's also trickier when you adopt seniors, which I haven't done so far so I guess I shouldn't say never, but even high premiums may be worth it, especially as vet care costs continue to increase (or so I expect). And I know what it stands for, just don't know what it is. And I'm too lazy to go look it up. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Oh, I see. Basically the long bones in the front legs will start getting additional bone growth on them and it's painful. Not sure if the femur and the hock develop additional bone growth or where it goes in the hind legs. Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJNg Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Sorry to hear Pinky isn't doing better, and I know you must be extremely frustrated and worried, Kristin. Regarding the comment about blood proteins, part of the results are calculated mathematically, although the machine usually does it. Globulins aren't actually measured - it's the difference between the total protein and the albumin. So as tbhounds mentioned, I suspect that in Pinky's bloodwork, the albumin and globulin didn't add up to the total protein, which it should if calculated as described above. Running a urine protein:creatinine ratio helps quantify the proteinuria and determine how significant it is. The UPC value is usually what's used to determine if the dog needs to be on medication for the proteinuria. Enalapril and benazepril are in the same class of drugs and work similarly. There are some minor differences, but I use them pretty much interchangeably. HO is usually pretty obvious on x-rays and often doesn't require any special positioning or angles. A quick screen for HO would be to just a get a single film with both her front feet on it. How can I make a decision to let her go when she's not ready to go yet? I believe how the dog's feeling, and whether she is telling you she's ready to go, needs to be factored into the decision. And if you honestly feel in tune enough with your dog to know whether or not she's ready to go (rather than it being a reflection of what you think the dog wants), then I think this should be the primary consideration. Quote Jennifer & Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On), Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllenEveBaz Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Kristin, just sending Quote Ellen, with brindle Milo and the blonde ballerina, Gelsey remembering Eve, Baz, Scout, Romie, Nutmeg, and Jeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Sorry to hear Pinky isn't doing better, and I know you must be extremely frustrated and worried, Kristin. Regarding the comment about blood proteins, part of the results are calculated mathematically, although the machine usually does it. Globulins aren't actually measured - it's the difference between the total protein and the albumin. So as tbhounds mentioned, I suspect that in Pinky's bloodwork, the albumin and globulin didn't add up to the total protein, which it should if calculated as described above. AH, well, that makes sense why things might be wonky then. The albumin was so low that it caused an error on the machine. They ran a sample through two separate times and it had an issue both times. I did mention that in my email to OSU though, so I think they would have put two and two together there too... Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJNg Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 If the albumin measurement came back with an error on the in-house machine, are they certain that it was low? Just checking since different factors can affect lab results, and if the low albumin was an assumption that wasn't definitely confirmed, that might not have been the cause of the edema. Another reason to send out the bloodwork to the outside lab. I do understand the concern about finances, though, as well as the need to be realistic, especially with the unfortunate knowledge that Pinky has a terminal disease. From a medical standpoint, I'd want to get results on all the tests that have been mentioned to try to figure out exactly what's going on. But from a practical standpoint, are they really necessary? What are your biggest concerns at this point - what's causing her pain or discomfort? Can that be managed without the additional testing, and will the testing change what you decide to do? There are no right or wrong answers - just what you feel is appropriate for your situation. Quote Jennifer & Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On), Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 My number one question is, what are we dealing with here and is there a chance it will get better? Her lung tumors causing issues with her ability to breathe are the furthest from my mind-two different vets at our clinic listened to her and agreed if they'd never seen the rads, they'd never know she even had tumors. I really think if this edema would just go away she'd be comfortable and happy. But it makes it feel funny for her to walk. I also need her to gain some weight back. The pred just melted her away. Now that we're on an every 48 hour rotation with the pred, I *think* she might be gaining again. Another part of her current issue with moving comfortably I'm sure has a bit to do with the fact that she's lost muscle too. Tonight when I got home and let them out, she flew out the door with Ace like she always used to, but then stopped because she realized she just didn't have the strength to get up to a full run. She wants to. Her legs are holding her back. She feels good enough to be playful. Her legs aren't cooperating. Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJNg Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 How bad is her edema - are her legs so swollen from the edema that they are 'tight'? Is it pitting edema (when you press on it, does it leave an indentation)? In general, edema itself doesn't tend to be uncomfortable or interfere with movement unless it is severe enough to cause discomfort from pressure. Since her limb swelling is making her uncomfortable to walk, that makes me suspicious that there's something else going on. I'd suggest starting with the x-ray(s) of her legs. Quote Jennifer & Willow (Wilma Waggle), Wiki (Wiki Hard Ten), Carter (Let's Get It On), Ollie (whippet), Gracie (whippet x), & Terra (whippet) + Just Saying + Just Alice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 It's exactly like it was in her rear leg after her amputation...when she's standing it's worse, and a little bit tight. Once she lays down and I rub her legs for about 20 minutes, it gets better. It's not pitting (it was when she first got sick), and it gets less swollen with massage a lot quicker than it was before. But, if she's been on her feet too long, it's tight and uncomfortable. Worst area seems to be the tops of her feet and her wrists. I can't imagine it wouldn't be uncomfortable. I'm certain the muscle loss has contributed significantly to her having to move more slowly as well. Clearly she enjoys the massage...she falls asleep when I do it Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 We're home from our appointment...her albumin came up to 1.7, so I guess that's good... Bad news is, she has HO It's very early stage, but, it's there. We're going to do what we can to keep her happy until it's time. Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 We're home from our appointment...her albumin came up to 1.7, so I guess that's good... Bad news is, she has HO It's very early stage, but, it's there. We're going to do what we can to keep her happy until it's time. Well crap-I'm sorry. Ice cream & steak for dinner tonight. {{{Hugs}}} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 She's killing me! She took a little nap when we came home and just got up to go outside and her legs look damn near normal. I know they'll puff up again with her being up, but, what the heck! Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachosMom Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Just wanted to send you positive thoughts for you and Pinky. I'm so sorry about the HO diagnosis Quote Mom to Macho (JS XtremeMachine 1/12/2007 -8/17/2012 ... Gotcha day 9/2/2011. I miss you BigMan)Moonbeam (Ninos Full Moon 11/1/2009, Gotcha day 9/2/2012), Hattie (Kiowa Hats Off 4/14/2011, Gotcha day 10/13/2012), Keiva (JS Igotyourbooty 1/12/2007, Gotcha Day 1/8/2014)Jimmy (Blu Too James 06/26/2014, Gotcha day 09/12/2015), a shepard mix named Tista, some cats, and some reptiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaineysMom Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 just sending more hugs to everyone here Quote Kim and Bruce - with Rick (Rick Roufus 6/30/16) and missing my sweet greyhound Angels Rainey (LG's Rainey 10/4/2000 - 3/8/2011), Anubis (RJ's Saint Nick 12/25/2001 - 9/12/12) and Zeke (Hey Who Whiz It 4/6/2009 - 7/20/2020) and Larry (PTL Laroach 2/24/2007 - 8/2/2020) -- and Chester (Lab) (8/31/1990 - 5/3/2005), Captain (Schipperke) (10/12/1992 - 6/13/2005) and Remy (GSP) (?/?/1998 - 1/6/2005) at the bridge"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut." -- Ernest Hemmingway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Aww, I'm so sorry Kristin. With this diagnosis, does that mean you can possibly add in some pain medication that will give her relief? I don't know if her discomfort is more likely to be from the bone growth or the edema or both, but it sounds like from what JJNg said, it's less likely it's the edema. Hoping there's something you can do to help her be more comfortable and give you more time now that you know what you are dealing with. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest grey_dreams Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I'm sorry to hear the diagnosis. You've both been in there, giving it everything you've got. Here's hoping for a lot of good times still ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesmom Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I am so sorry Kristin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Jen, yep...we're upping the tramadol and may add gabapentin too...she wanted to look into how it might interact with her other meds before we start giving her that. Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlies_Dad Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 Kristin, I am so very sorry. Not something any of us want to hear as Pinky, like all the pups here, share a special place in our hearts. Give the girl a gentle hug from me. Quote Kyle with Stewie ('Super C Ledoux, Super C Sampson x Sing It Blondie) and forever missing my three angels, Jack ('Roy Jack', Greys Flambeau x Miss Cobblepot) and Charlie ('CTR Midas Touch', Leo's Midas x Hallo Argentina) and Shelby ('Shari's Hooty', Flying Viper x Shari Carusi) running free across the bridge. Gus an coinnich sinn a'rithist my boys and little girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vjgrey Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 We're home from our appointment...her albumin came up to 1.7, so I guess that's good... Bad news is, she has HO It's very early stage, but, it's there. We're going to do what we can to keep her happy until it's time. I'm so sorry, Kristin. I know you'll (continue to) spoil your brave girl rotten. Quote Valerie w/ Cash (CashforClunkers) & Lucy (Racing School Dropout)Missing our gorgeous Miss Diamond (Shorty's Diamond), sweet boy Gabe (Zared) and Holly (ByGollyItsHolly), who never made it home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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