Osteo Thread V

[tbhounds]

Thanks Jane! Jane got the UPC correct (urine protein creatinine). I just read the the u/a results and because there is blood in the urine it's not an appropriate time to run a UPC--blood will give you an inaccurate result-however, Proteinuria should be taken seriously--especially when the albumin becomes so low you need hetastarch to help with the edema. She does seem to be concentrating her urine well- a 1.040 sg is good.

When your hound is tossing protein in the urine she is a stroke risk-period. When protein passes through the kidneys into the urine so does something called antithrombin lll. Antithrombin lll is an anti clotting factor--not enough and your body will not have the ability to prevent clots. Pred can also cause clots--pred with proteinuria is a very bad combo. This is why Dr Couto recommends low dose aspirin to hounds with proteinuria-thins the blood helping to prevent clots.

Hope you here from Dr Kellogg soon.

[Guest crazy4greys]

My boy Cooper, age 6, was just diagnosed with Osteo in his left shoulder. He is going in for more xrays on Friday to see if it has spread yet before any decisions are made. I am leaning towards amputation if the xrays are clear. He is basically using only 3 legs now, so I am sure he will do ok if we proceed.

 

I am not sure if this was posted anywhere, but I did see a $50 consultation fee now on the OSU consultation form when I looked at it today.

[joejoesmom]

I am not sure if this was posted anywhere, but I did see a $50 consultation fee now on the OSU consultation form when I looked at it today.

 

I had heard that this was going to happen. Unfortunately, the Greyhound Health and Wellness Program has not been receiving enough donations/grants to cover their expenses. Meanwhile, I believe the number of consult requests they receive has been continuing to rise. While they definitely are sad to have to charge now, if they don't, they will cease to exist.

 

Just in case you don't know, the Greyhound Health and Wellness Program is funded totally by donations and grants. OSU does not provide any funding.

 

Jane

 

My boy Cooper, age 6, was just diagnosed with Osteo in his left shoulder. He is going in for more xrays on Friday to see if it has spread yet before any decisions are made. I am leaning towards amputation if the xrays are clear. He is basically using only 3 legs now, so I am sure he will do ok if we proceed.

 

I am so sorry to hear about Cooper. My Joe had just turned 7 when he was diagnosed. I had the (front leg) amputation done at OSU and followed up with IV chemo and then a metronomic protocol. I had 20 more months with my sweet Joey. He developed a second primary tumor in his rear leg and I had to let him go. Those 20 months were wonderful though.

 

Jane

[JJNg]

I am not sure if this was posted anywhere, but I did see a $50 consultation fee now on the OSU consultation form when I looked at it today.

 

I just checked the page, and while they will be charging soon, they have not started yet. This is copied from the OSU consultation page:

 

"Non-Members

We will soon be charging a fee for consultations ($50). At this time, no payment is required. However, the charging functionality will appear after you have entered your information. Please IGNORE this charge page. Your consult will be sent to us, and we will respond via email. Please complete the consultation form."

[krissn333]

So sorry to hear another has joined our club Sending good thoughts for you and Cooper as you navigate these waters

 

Tbhounds, thanks for the info. I'm sure that's why we're tapering the pred down. As you know you can't just stop prednisone when you've been giving it every 12 hours. She's down to every 24 right now and we'll go to every 48 in 4 days. Doc mentioned that the pred is also likely helping with the protein loss since it causes her to drink more and thus pee more.

[tbhounds]

I am not sure if this was posted anywhere, but I did see a $50 consultation fee now on the OSU consultation form when I looked at it today.

 

I just checked the page, and while they will be charging soon, they have not started yet. This is copied from the OSU consultation page:

 

"Non-Members

We will soon be charging a fee for consultations ($50). At this time, no payment is required. However, the charging functionality will appear after you have entered your information. Please IGNORE this charge page. Your consult will be sent to us, and we will respond via email. Please complete the consultation form."

This just might be a good reason to become a member :-)

[krissn333]

Someday when all of my money isn't going toward veterinary care for my pups, I'll be able to donate to OSU. Sad that soon it will require a donation...if it had when I emailed them last week, there's no way I could've paid it.

[TwiggysMom]

I am so sorry to hear about Cooper's diagnosis. I hope the x-rays on Friday are clear.

 

He is so young, barely 6! It seems like this disease is hitting them earlier and earlier

[joejoesmom]

I am not sure if this was posted anywhere, but I did see a $50 consultation fee now on the OSU consultation form when I looked at it today.

 

I just checked the page, and while they will be charging soon, they have not started yet. This is copied from the OSU consultation page:

 

"Non-Members

We will soon be charging a fee for consultations ($50). At this time, no payment is required. However, the charging functionality will appear after you have entered your information. Please IGNORE this charge page. Your consult will be sent to us, and we will respond via email. Please complete the consultation form."

This just might be a good reason to become a member :-)

 

Yep, members will get free consults.

[NeylasMom]

What's the membership fee out of curiosity? (Yes, I'm too lazy to go look myself )

[4My2Greys]

What's the membership fee out of curiosity? (Yes, I'm too lazy to go look myself )

 

$100 for individuals and adoption groups and $149 for Veterinarians. I'm curious as to what the difference is as far as information is concerned between the 2 memberships.

[KF_in_Georgia]

$100 for individuals and adoption groups and $149 for Veterinarians. I'm curious as to what the difference is as far as information is concerned between the 2 memberships.

 

I'm guessing that they expect more inquiries from veterinarians than from individuals. A person normally (are greyhound owners normal?) won't have as many greyhounds to inquire about as a veterinary practice might have.

 

ETA: And the fee's probably tax deductible for a veterinary practice.

Edited October 25, 2012 by KF_in_Georgia

[RaineysMom]

So sorry this rotten club has another new member. And so young.

 

I hope you can get many more good days with Cooper. :hope

[Guest snakes]

Sending positive thoughts for Cooper, FedX was 6 when he was diagnosed, I didn't think he'd make 7 and he made 8years old!

 

Keepings fingers crossed for all the other pups on here having troubles or staying well on here!

[Guest crazy4greys]

I am not sure if this was posted anywhere, but I did see a $50 consultation fee now on the OSU consultation form when I looked at it today.

 

I just checked the page, and while they will be charging soon, they have not started yet. This is copied from the OSU consultation page:

 

"Non-Members

We will soon be charging a fee for consultations ($50). At this time, no payment is required. However, the charging functionality will appear after you have entered your information. Please IGNORE this charge page. Your consult will be sent to us, and we will respond via email. Please complete the consultation form."

 

 

It says that, but if you click the complete the consultation form, it does state at the top that there is a $50 fee now and at the bottom you click a link that says payment or something.

 

I'd be more than willing to pay the $50! I am sure there are more than helpful

 

 

Thanks everyone for the good thoughts.

[BauersMom]

When Berkeley was diagnosed, I donated $50, even though they weren't asking for a membership fee at that time. The amount of advice (and value of chemotherapy drugs) was worth a lot more in $ than my donation. So if you can afford it, go for it.

[JJNg]

I am not sure if this was posted anywhere, but I did see a $50 consultation fee now on the OSU consultation form when I looked at it today.

 

I just checked the page, and while they will be charging soon, they have not started yet. This is copied from the OSU consultation page:

 

"Non-Members

We will soon be charging a fee for consultations ($50). At this time, no payment is required. However, the charging functionality will appear after you have entered your information. Please IGNORE this charge page. Your consult will be sent to us, and we will respond via email. Please complete the consultation form."

 

It says that, but if you click the complete the consultation form, it does state at the top that there is a $50 fee now and at the bottom you click a link that says payment or something.

 

I'd be more than willing to pay the $50! I am sure there are more than helpful

 

I'm sure they'd appreciate the $50. Just wanted to point out that they are not requiring it quite yet for those who may want a consult but not be able to afford it if there is a charge. The paragraph I quoted above says that the charge page will show up but instructs people to ignore it.

[krissn333]

Just a quick Pinky update...I think the benazepril is helping. She does still have some edema, but it's subsiding. It's amazing how much more comfortable she is now. Tomorrow we go to prednisone every 48 hours. She's still eating well of course.

 

My mom comes up mid-day to check on her and I think it's helping that she gets massages 4 times a day-from me in the morning, from mom around 1, from me when I get home from work, and from me before bed. She's sleeping through the night well now, but when she was still getting restless, she would rest quietly if I put Frasier on the TV Not sure what's up with that, but, she likes it apparently

 

I'm hoping she'll continue to improve

[TwiggysMom]

Pinky Keep it up!

 

I bet those massages are doing wonders!

[krissn333]

I realize how lucky we are...we're so fortunate to have the love and support of my parents, especially my mom, who has been on this journey with us from day one. Pinky has certainly benefitted from her efforts

[Charlies_Dad]

Good to hear Pinky is feeling better! Keep it up girl.

[krissn333]

I hate this edema! It's worse today. I thought we were making progress

 

Heard back from Dr. Kellogg, which was less than helpful:

Hi Kristin - I consulted with Dr. Couto on Pinky's case, and he pointed out that the bloodwork is odd, in that the way the Albumin, TP (Total Protein), and Globulin values report don't make sense. Typically these are calculated in part based on a formula, and that doesn't seem to be the case here. He suggests repeating a CBC, along with a spun PCV/TP. It may be worth sending the chemical profile bloodwork to a different referral lab (e.g. Idexx or Antech).

 

Also, it may be worth checking a Urinary Protein:Creatinine ratio, as it looks like he may have proteinuria? Though there are other test which can be considered first, such as a urinary culture.

 

It's a machine that runs all of the tests...they make it sound like a person made some sort of mathematical error.

 

And yes, she does have proteinuria, that's why on the UA results next to protein there are four plus signs! The second sentence of my email to her reads "her albumin is low and she has protein in her urine." Come on!

 

I understand that they get so many emails per day, but, what's the point in writing back so quickly if you don't even take the time to look at the bloodwork and UA results?!?!?!?

 

She didn't even address my questions re: putting her on aspirin, or mention anything about the risk for stroke. I'm just very frustrated right now.

 

We have to go to the vet tomorrow for a follow up, which will cost me over $200 just for a UA and a chem panel, and if they decide to send things out or do a culture it's going to be even more. My nerves are shot. At this point I don't know if she's ever going to get "better." But she eats and drinks and meanders around, and drools at the sight of the peanut butter jar. How can I make a decision to let her go when she's not ready to go yet?

[NeylasMom]

I know your frustrated - from a non-biased perspective, I don't actually see an issue with the email. She's basically suggested what tbhounds (and perhaps others) suggested a few days ago - a protein creatinine ratio and potentially a culture, although that's an issue if you've already got her on ABs, which I seem to recall you do.

 

Is $200 your regular vet's fee? That seems really high - my vet charges about $150 for the combo. There may be an option for a more restricted blood panel that looks at the relevant values rather than a CBC.

 

Hope you can get it sorted out.

[tbhounds]

Sorry, I dont see a problem with their response either. Just want to point out the in house blood analyzers do make mistakes-they can be quirky. I totally agree that you should re-run bloodwork using an outside lab such as Idexx or Antech. Have your vet tomorrow run another U/A to make sure the uti has been resolved and run a quick in house PCV% /TP (they shouldn't charge you for the PCV/TP) If the urine looks free of a uti (no blood, no bacteria) then you can run the UPC. Not seeking the previous bloodwork results I think what Dr Couto is saying is that the albumin and globulin values don't add up to the total protein (TP) result-hence his recommendation to re-run some tests. It would be irresponsible for him to recommend medication such as aspirin without seeing concrete results. Also, yes, she has protein in her urine but, if I remember correctly she also had red and white cells in her urine too-that will also increase the protein results-doesn't mean it's because she has PLN. That's why you need to run a UPC.

I wanted to add that the edema could be from the proteinuria or from a condition called hypertrophic osteopathy. I understand your frustration but, Dr Couto is just doing his job and he does that very well.

Edited October 29, 2012 by tbhounds

[krissn333]

Yeah Jen, she's on Clavamox and Zeniquin, so, no culture.

 

The cost of a follow-up visit, plus blood draw and testing, plus UA, comes out to $189. She'll no doubt need more benazapril, which is $21. I hope to God she doesn't need more Zeniquin, it's $123 on it's own. Sounds like everyone thinks we should xray her legs, which will be a cool $250 or so depending on how many views of each leg they do.

 

I hate to complain about how much things cost, but, I've borrowed $1500 from my parents already and the expenses keep coming. It's frustrating to be spending that kind of money only to see your sweet baby still sick. The hetastarch IV, plus the bloodwork and UA and benazapril last week added up to $480some dollars.

 

The only problem with sending blood out is we don't get immediate results, so we have no idea how well we're doing or what we need to change in the meantime, and I don't like that. Plus then that means another trip over to the office for me to pick up meds if we change anything.

 

I wasn't looking for Dr. Couto to tell me yes, give her aspirin, I just mentioned that you had brought that up and I'd like some more information. If he doesn't want to recommend it, if it were me, I'd have said something like, "we do sometimes recommend aspirin for these cases, but, because the bloodwork is a bit unclear and the reason for the protein reading in the UA is also unclear, I'd hesitate to recommend that at this time."

 

I read some things on hypertrophic osteopathy and everything I read said that's pretty darn rare...I know that doesn't mean it can't happen, but I suppose if it's a rarity that's all the more reason to check it out because we just seem to be so damn lucky lately.