Osteo Thread V

[TwiggysMom]

Kyle will be so happy to be home! (all of you, too!)

 

The first week or two, they often are guarded about getting around. I found that at times, Twiggy would seem to forget that she was missing a leg and she would list to the left (missing leg side). I would need to intervene, supporting her left side and shifting her center of balance back to her new center. After about 1.5 to 2 weeks, this stopped happening.

 

Also, the vet center's floors are almost certainly shiny, slippery surfaces. If you have carpet for him to walk on at home, he will do much better just with that.

 

Sending many healing thoughts!

[Guest jenbush123]

Kyle came home and is doing better walking than I had expected! Even went off leash in the yard last night to do his business and was quite happy to walk the fence line like he normally does and check everything out. Only two concerning items - he does have a large pocket of fluid behind his right front knee, presumably from rubbing against the mat/bed he was in while at the vet. And he won't stop licking his incision - he even has a huge cone on his head, but managed to find a way to still lick last night. Is there anything I can put on/near his incision to stop the licking?

[krissn333]

I'd put a tshirt on him and tie it up at the waist. Stick a maxi pad on the inside of the shirt where it makes contact with the incision to absorb any drainage/seepage.

 

Someone else's hound here had an elbow issue after surgery and IIRC it was a pocket of fluid or something to that effect. Hopefully they'll post about their experience.

[TwiggysMom]

I'm glad to hear Kyle is doing well at home, I thought he would do better there!

 

Kyle is a rear-leg amp, right? If so, you could use some boxer shorts, stitch up the end of the appropriate leg (put his tail through the fly), and you could put a non-stick surgical dressing inside both to prevent leak-through and keep him from licking.

 

If you don't want to do that, a muzzle/stool cup combo works well, too.

[krissn333]

Oh oops I was thinking he was a front leg amp, sorry! Boxer shorts will totally work!

 

Pinky was kept wrapped up after her surgery so she couldn't mess with her staples. With a rear amp that's easier to do with a girly dog than a boy dog though

[Guest BlackandBrindle]

I have a full unopened bottle of artemisinin that I'd like to pass along to someone who can use it. PM me and I'll get it in the mail.

 

 

Tried messaging. IS it still available?

 

Help!

 

Ok, so not going the chemo/amp route but talked to the oncologist (via message) and will talk to her tomorrow about pamidronate. Any experience or thoughts?

 

Spud was diagnosed on Friday. Right now he's comfortable (not limping) on vetprofen (generic rimadyl) and tramadol. Will add gabapentin too.

 

I want to start the artemisinin. Do I need to go to a holistic vet to speak about this? I am in the vet med industry so have a lot of medical support through this but looking for some owner input.

 

Also, had someone mention **take mushroom something or other. Any experience. Going through a 47 page thread is too overwhelming. Sorry if my questions have been asked to death.

 

Thanks,

Mary Jo

[krissn333]

Mary Jo- yes I have a full sealed bottle plus another one half used. Let me look at the date on the opened one.

 

Email me your address to krissn333 AT mchsi DOT com.

 

Sutra had pamidronate. It's an infusion that works to promote healthy bone growth. It also gave him a good deal of pain relief. It takes a few hours usually because they combine it with lots of fluids in order to ease the strain that it CAN have on the kidneys. I would highly recommend it.

 

So sorry you're joining our club

[NeylasMom]

Mary Jo, PM me your email address and I'll send you my longwinded email about Artemisinin that I keep for times like this.

[Guest BlackandBrindle]

Thanks guys! I hate that we are all here but thankful that we have the support.

[Guest snakes]

You do not have to have bet guidance for artemisinin. I used the info from the yahoo group and gave it to Fedx, the info makes recommendations mg per lb, timing ect. I had FedX on curcumin which is supposed to potentiate the effects of the artemisinin, it can lead to loose stool though.

I second the excellent experience with pamidronate, we saw dramatic difference within 24hrs of the infusion. As stated though it does take 3-4hrs per treatment and for around here it was 4-500$ per treatment.

I didn't do the mushroom, but I know Charliesdad did, you may want to ask him. I am sure he will chime in here.

We did Chinese herbs which requires a natural vet to prescribe but it seemed to help.

 

[krissn333]

Sutra's pamidronate was about $250 per treatment.

[greysmom]

4My2Greys has begun using an experimental mushroom extract on her non-grey. She started a thread about it several weeks ago. This extract was in the news after a study conducted in Sweden (?) The Netherlands (?). Someplace abroad.

[krissn333]

Mary Jo...I looked at the artemisinin I have-the partial bottle is good until April 2013 and the unopened one says manufactured in 2011, but I know I purchased the opened bottle in 2010, so, the unopened one is surely good until at least 2014.

[Guest snakes]

Sutra's pamidronate was about $250 per treatment.

 

Oh how I wish it had been that price, would have made continuing treatments much more accessible. I do know the prices vary on geographic area and my price included the "day boarding fee" they charged to keep him the hours and the kidney panel prior to treatment that had to be done every or every other treatment depending on frequency. The actual drug was about $250.

Edited November 30, 2012 by snakes

[TwiggysMom]

I too am sad that you need to be here, but am glad that you are feeling up to developing your plan of action. Having that plan really helps.

 

I'm happy that Spud is still being his happy self! I hope that continues for a long, long time!

[4My2Greys]

Bruiser is nearing 6 months post splenectomy after the tumor on his spleen ruptured and he was diagnosed with HSA. He really is doing remarkably well. His appetite is great and he has the energy to give chase occasionally to squirrels. I thought I would share some of the things I've been using on Bruiser and some associated studies on why I chose them. I started with a homecooked diet made up of 75% meat and 25% vegetables. The vegetables are usually a mix of broccoli, spinach or turnip greens, brussels sprouts and cauliflower.

IP6 & Inositol

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/14608114/

Arabinogalactan

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/10231609/

AHCC - Active Hexose Correlated Compound

http://www.ahccpublishedresearch.com/default.htm

I gave this while he was doing the 5 rounds of doxorubicin chemotherapy. After he finished his chemo I switched to the Coriolus versicolor PSP compound similar to the one that was used in this UPenn study.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2012/384301/

What is really interesting about this study is that HSA was used because it is such an aggressive cancer to study the ability of this compound to slow metastasis. In that study the brand I'm Yunity is used. The cost for (240) 400mg capsules would have been over $300, and lasted about 20 days if I remember correctly. I found a company based in the Netherlands that has a Coriolus versicolor PSP compound derived from the same strain and using the same extraction process. I was able to buy (360) 350mg capsules for $157. Here's the link if anyone is interested in checking it out.

http://www.oriveda.com/JAM/jrox.php?id=137_1

 

 

[NeylasMom]

Mary Jo, email about arte sent. I also included the link to the thread about the mushroom research that you asked about and someone above mentioned. Let me know if you don't get the emails.

 

FYI, Neyla's one pamidronate treatment was around $600-650. The one consideration there I think is whether to start them now or wait until he actually needs it for palliative care. There is good evidence that it actually helps with bone growth (to repair what the cancer is eating away) and that it may inherently have anti-cancer properties although the research was very preliminary when I did it with Neyla 2 years ago and I haven't really kept up with it, but there is a risk of damage to the kidneys. It's low, but if there's any chance Spud has compromised kidneys (has had issues in the past, blood work off at all) I would think more seriously about reserving the treatments until they are really needed.

 

Unfortunately Neyla had had an acute kidney episode years before, when she was 5 so I believe her kidneys were already not fully functioning although she had no symptoms or indications of any issues in her blood work and the end result was that that one treatment really screwed her up. She started having accidents while laying down or sleeping immediately after and that never got better. Having said that, we are the only ones I know of on this board to have experienced that side effect.

[Guest BlackandBrindle]

Bloodwork is clean, no kidney issues in the past. We are going to try it sooner rather than later. Will let you know how it goes. I got the email, thank you! It was very helpful.

[vjgrey]

 

Having said that, we are the only ones I know of on this board to have experienced that side effect.

 

Gabe did, too - he was at the beginning stages of kidney failure when we had to let him go.

 

However, his visible tumor was very slow growing. It looked virtually the same in his first X-rays and his last, and his oncologist credited a combination of pamindronate and radiation for that. If it weren't for his second primary tumor, we may've had more time with him, but we wouldn't have been able to continue the pamindronate.

 

[greysmom]

As we're nearing 50 pages, I've started a part vi to keep the info and support going for everyone.

 

If you want to copy anything from this thread, you should do so quickly, as they tend to disappear before you know it.

 

{{{{{hugs}}}}} For everyone dealing with this horrible disease.........................

[Guest mlindau]

I just came back from the vet. My wonderful little 7 1/2 year old girl broke her femur badly. Diagnosis: Osteo Has ANYONE seen good results from treating a greyhound AFTER a break due to Osteo? I have to make a difficult decision ASAP. She is currently at the vet heavily sedated with IV pain meds. My gut is that if her bones are so compromised and weak it is too late for her to have real time and happiness in her future. It would be helpful for me to have others experience. Thank you.

[greysmom]

It depends on what you mean by "good results."

 

Median life expectancy following treatment with amputation and IV chemo is around nine months. If you choose palliative care (using pain meds, nsaids, and possibly Palladia or other treatments) the average is much less. Keep in mind that you can't *cure* osteo, you can only manage the symptoms. Amputation is to take away the hideous pain from the cancer eating the bone, not as a way to remove the cancer.

 

That being said, we've had several dogs who are a part of this thread keep going well into two or more years post-amputation. These months have been months of good quality of life - the dogs are enjoying themselves and living well in the moment. Most don't get this long, but you can't tell which ones will and which ones won't. Osteo is a crap shoot. You place your bet and you take your chances.

 

Osteo normally doesn't present with tumors in several bones ot once, though there isn't any reason why it couldn't. The fear of a catastophic break in the remaining legs post amputation is constant, and one you plan for, if you choose that route.

 

Our story is fairly common. Our greyhound, Dude, was just out running in the backyard one day when he broke his leg. There was no sign of a limp previously. He exhibited no pain behavior and did not act like anything was wrong. We opted to go the amputation route, and after a rough three weeks or so, he began to return to the dog we knew before - playful and happy. We did 5 rounds of IV chemo followed by treating with a metronomic protocol of oral chemo, artemisinin, and piroxicam. We had nine more good months with him before the cancer metastisized and we had to let him go.

 

Cost is also a factor, particularly of you don't have pet insurance. The amp and follow-up care cost us close to $10,000. Meds, lab work, testing, chemo administration, and other sundry costs added on another $5-6,000. Most of this cost was in the first few months. Once we reached his maintainance period, the costs seemed quite manageable.

 

To amputate or not is a decision only you can make for your family and your dog. Our Dude actually loved going to the vet and being fussed over, so we had no stress in him or us over the many vet visits. We were also fortunate in that we had a recent windfall of money and were able to use it to pay for his treatment. Without it, we would have had to make different decisions. Many other people here have opted for palliative care, and others have made the hard decision to let their dog pass peacefully without putting them through treatment. No one in this thread is going to berate you for making any of those choices. Though they might try and persuade you!

 

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. Osteo is a horrible thief that steals our precious fur kids from us long before their time with us should be done.

 

Please don't hesitate to ask questions, or even to just come here and vent your anger and frustrations. We've all been where you are now and we totally understand.

 

PS - You should look up the most recent thread with this title and read through it, including the links and info in the first post. I'll find it and put it on the first page of H&M.

Edited November 11, 2013 by greysmom

[dmswartzfager]

Symbra's right rear femur shattered while I was positioning her on the x-ray table. We amputated the next day (after checking chest rads) and did five rounds of carboplatin (and then used an artemisinin protocol after chemo). She survived just over 17 months before her right front leg broke. To give you an idea of the severity of the bone lysis and subsequent break:

 

[TwiggysMom]

I am so very sorry you are thrown into this so suddenly. You may already have had to make your decision, but I wanted to offer my support for whatever you choose.

 

Although I don't have personal experience with results from amputation after a leg break, I believe there are mixed results (just as there are with amputation prior to a leg break).

 

My best wishes to you and your girl.