Experienced Grey Owners

[sobesmom]

We had an "incident" a couple weeks ago that would have had me calling for an emergency - off hours vet call a few years ago. BTW - This is a rural area, and if you call a vet off-hours, it better be BIG - and it's going to be insanely expensive, cash expected up-front, if you can get them to go to the office. I did that once, and for a VERY good reason.

 

My incident a couple weeks ago was that my grey and the foster were out in the yard for after-dinner potty, and came barreling in like crazies - and then there was barking heard. We don't normally have barking. So the humans went to the door to see what was going on, and the foster dog came in with tail tucked, looking like he'd been told what-for. Went straight to a dog-bed and hid his head. My grey, Diana, pranced in like queen of the world with a big gash in her side. A cresent, about 2" long. Ugly. About an inch wide, skin deep only.

 

Apparently, our "playful" foster slashed her with a nail. And along the ribline, that skin TEARS. My dog seemed fine. Actually proud of herself for "putting him in his place" (the barking we heard). So I decided to wait it out. The next day, the cresent turned into a circle when the skin pulled back. An open circle the size of the bottom of a beer can.

 

Still I decided to wait. There was no way to stitch it. I called my vet to ask for a precautionary course of antibiotics, they said no. I said, I'd bring her in if needed.

 

We've made a point to keep it clean, keep her from licking TOO much, and after 2 weeks, it's the size of a dime. Healing very nicely. I couldn't find a way to bandage, or cover, that wouldn't incite her to go after it, so we left it alone, and watched.

 

If there had been ANY sign of distress from her, or any sign of infection, she'd have been at the vet IMMEDIATELY.

 

My point is - sometimes you learn to wait it out. The hard part is figuring out when you "know enough" to do so. I expected EVERY DAY to come home and regret my choice, and have to go to the vet feeling like a jerk.

 

When do you really LEARN how to make that call?? I'm learning...

[Sambuca]

In July, Sailor had a similar wound. I have no idea how he got it and I was in a bad mood to begin with (just grumpy, but not at him) and he senses my mood so he didn't want me touching him. I wasn't going to bring him to the evet, but the flap of skin was laying funny and I was afraid of a foreign body. I brought him in and they quoted me $600-$800 to put him under and stitch him up. I said no and they just cleaned the wound well and I took him home for under $200. Still more money than I'd like, but at least I knew there wasn't anything in there. I was comfortable keeping the wound clean. I brought him to my vet the next day and they said good for you for saying no, most people would just spend the money. We left my vet with 4 staples and $88 poorer. Had the flap been lying flat I wouldn't have brought him to the evet. I think it's just experience and time that teaches us what needs to be done.

[Brindles]

I agree that there are many vet visits that can be avoided with a little know-how. When do you learn? Time and experience.

 

I can't believe your vet wouldn't give you antibiotics for a wound like that. That's ridiculous!

[sobesmom]

 

I can't believe your vet wouldn't give you antibiotics for a wound like that. That's ridiculous!

 

Well - the vet's take was that if was big enough to call about, they should SEE it to decide what treatments were necessary. I know it was only skin-deep, there was no skin to pull together to possibly stitch, and there was no bandage in the world that would work. So - I decined the $60 visit to have him tell me that.

 

I'm considering asking my adoption rep to send me a general range antibiotic course to have on hand. The group gets them in bulk, becuase their vet knows they know when to administer.

 

Luckily - Diana did not get infected, so it's a moot point in this case. But- if it was available to me, I'd have given her a course as a precaution in this case of such a large open wound.

[Brindles]

I would have taken the same course of action that you did. And you're right, moot point now - kudos to you for knowing how to successfully take care if it! I guess I'm just surprised because I don't think there's a single vet (with whom I have a doctor-patient relationship) that would have denied my dog a round of an antibiotic for a wound like that. Maybe it's different in this part of the country. Lower cost of living and a lot of vets here "get it."

Edited December 7, 2011 by Brindles

[BatterseaBrindl]

Having owned multiple dogs and horses for nearly 30 years, I have developed a really good 'feel' for what needs to be seen by a vet NOW, what can wait and what I can treat here at home.

 

It does take years of experience.... and you also have to have the right 'personality'.

 

I have a friend who has owned a horse for a number of years and still calls the vet for every single little injury.

[tbhounds]

 

I can't believe your vet wouldn't give you antibiotics for a wound like that. That's ridiculous!

 

Well - the vet's take was that if was big enough to call about, they should SEE it to decide what treatments were necessary. I know it was only skin-deep, there was no skin to pull together to possibly stitch, and there was no bandage in the world that would work. So - I decined the $60 visit to have him tell me that.

 

I'm considering asking my adoption rep to send me a general range antibiotic course to have on hand. The group gets them in bulk, becuase their vet knows they know when to administer.

 

Luckily - Diana did not get infected, so it's a moot point in this case. But- if it was available to me, I'd have given her a course as a precaution in this case of such a large open wound.

This might not be the popular opinion here but, I have to agree with your vet. It would be completely irresponsible of them to dispense a medication without seeing the pet first.

If your hound had a reaction to the medication guess who would be liable? What about pain meds? Sad to say- they need to protect themselves -- maybe because I live in NJ but, here you have to always watch your back.

I also feel it would be wrong for your adoption rep to have given you meds. Bottom line- she/he is not a vet and shouldn't be dispensing prescription drugs. I know we are only talking about antibiotics but, one- they are being over used creating "super bugs" and two- only certain antibiotics are appropriate for certain organisms/infections.

I agree that you can't run to the vet every time your hound sneezes but, I don't think most pet owners are qualified to make that decision.

[fourofem]

When I adopted Stel, my first, seems like I was at the vet once a week...I fretted over every scratch, scrape, sideways look, everything. A few years and dogs later, I have a better feel for what actually warrants a trip to the vet or e-vet. My vet is great and always gives me three times the antibiotics I need when I do have to have one of them in so I always have some on hand. Not sure if he would be so willing without seeing the "patient" first...not sure if I've ever tried.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Physical wounds, I'm less likely to run to the vet. Sam had a cut on a foot that was bone deep: that one got 4 stitches. Oreo had a bite (Bad, Sam!) at the crease of her elbow, and the skin stretched badly. What was about a quarter of an inch to start with had stretched to 6 stitches' worth by the time I got her to the vet's. (And she wouldn't leave it alone, so that it healed badly.) Those both were e-vet visits, too, because in both cases it would have been about 40 hours until they could have gotten in to their regular vet. (What is it about Friday nights?) But thanks to hanging out here, I now have a better idea about what's treatable at home and what isn't--and a pretty good idea of what's stitchable and what isn't.

 

Illnesses, I think I'm more likely to run to the vet because hanging out here has given me a glimpse of symptoms that I might have ignored when I was less experienced. These days, I know enough to be suspicious of limps, tight abdomens, ominous coughs.

Edited December 7, 2011 by KF_in_Georgia

[philospher77]

Hmm. I seem to be in odd case here. I don't go to the vet for every little thing, but then again, I have generally healthy pets. I DO go with strange "something's just not right" cases. Which is why I am now treating a dog for pannus when it was at a level so low that the opthamologist said it had barely started being detectable, and how I caught Trinkett's LS issues when they were just starting. My vets have gotten to know me, and now trust me when I say that there's just something off that I want them to look at. What we do about it can range from "wait and see" to treatment, but I'd rather get these kinds of things early when the prognosis is better than to wait until I have obvious symptoms.

[Hubcitypam]

I wasted a boatload at e-vets 12+ years ago when I was a new adopter.

 

Now if they are drinking, not bleeding and not in distress it can probably wait until morning.

 

Buck tore a flap of skin off his ribcage maybe 1 inch by 4 but narrowing. We went to the doc the next morning and he suggested gluing (sp) it. He said if the glue would only hold a day or two the healing would jumpstart and we did that.

 

Buck didn't seem to be in pain and we never discussed pain meds -- tho I had Metacam and Tramadol here. I think we did put him on cephalexin...and they usually give me one refill every time. I think we read each other pretty well and he knows that I have at least a working knowledge of cephalexin vs. clavamox vs. doxy and any antibiotic treatment can wait until the morning when I can talk to him.

 

Some adoption groups do get doxy and cephalexin in bulk and distribute. If that is a good idea or not is debatable, but in my mind "superbugs" are FAR less likely to occur in dogs vs. humans. I'd love to read studies on antibiotic superbugs in dogs (who can't call the doc everytime they sniffle) .

Edited December 7, 2011 by Hubcitypam

[Batmom]

There was no way to stitch it.

 

Actually, those sorts of tears are really easy to put a couple staples in. I'm glad yours healed well without, tho. Sometimes it's a judgement call as to whether staples/stitches will hold or whether they'll just pull out again. I tend to get them as I seem to be blessed with dogs who like to pick at things and make them worse. If it's just an overnight wait and it isn't a deep or especially large or dirty wound, I'll wait and go to my regular vet in the morning.

 

These days, my vets usually don't give prophylactic antibiotics for shallow skin wounds unless they're in a place that is hard to keep clean.

 

I go to the vet more than some because I have good vets who are easy to get in to see. E-vets here are pretty good too tho costly.

[Feisty49]

I'm a novice at Greyhounds, having adopted Annie Bella in July. Thankfully she's had no problems other than the typical diarrhea in the beginning for which I sought advice from the vet. I was not the type of mother who called the pediatrician at every little thing and I imagine I'll be the same with Annie. Actually, my biggest concern is that I'll underreact, though if she had a bad cut/slice in her, I know I'd get her to the vet immediately (and I hope it's not on a weekend because the e-vet is 40 miles away).

 

Regarding over use of antibiotics: I Googled Superbugs in Dogs and got some hits, most of them a couple of years old. One, though, was dated July of this year and can be found at: http://www.nwsurgeons.co.uk/blog/2011/07/superbugs-in-dogs-and-cats/

[Guest june]

I try to gauge how the dog is doing; in obvious pain? eating? drinking? depressed? and make my decision from there.

 

I guess I'm fortunate, again, to live in a rural area. Twice now I've had things happen that I've called my vet (our emergency vet in town) and both times by describing the problem we were able to avoid an emergency visit; once needing no visit at all the other cared for the next morning.

[racindog]

For the most part I am more afraid of my animals being harmed by what the vet or their techs do or prescribe than what 99% of the injuries etc. are they incur. Sadly I got that way based on the PAINFUL experience of my dogs (and even death of a steer-he put the bolus down the trach instead of the esophagus) from negligent uncaring vet care "professionals" and others that may have cared but were just plain ignorant. Vet care is a last resort because I love my animals and don't like having to turn them over to vets who explain to me that "Its not about compassion." I am not a vet but with me it is ALL about compassion. However I do know when I have to risk them by taking them to the vet anyway and don't take chances. I grew up on a working farm with cows and horses etc. and worked at a large university vet school and although my degree is in chemistry I took my electives in animal science etc. Because of the chemistry background I am pretty in tune with pharmacology as well... so animal husbandry is my middle name. By the way you don't need a vet to get antibiotics- they're readily available from many vendors-I think you can even get them off ebay- and injectable antibiotics are a common item in the herd health medicine box-feed stores like SS have them. I think your houndies are lucky to have an intelligent owner like you. IMO there is no doubt you know more about your houndies and what care they need than the teenage tech who just got out of vet tech school and thinks they now know everything..

Edited December 7, 2011 by racindog

[kudzu]

With time & experience we do learn to handle many things on our own & get an idea for what we can handle. I didn't take my girl to the vet when she split the webbing on a front foot. It wasn't a location where stitches are likely to stay in. We did wound care & it healed without incident. Often some things that appear big & bloody are things I can handle. Sometimes it is the little, odd things, like licking at a toe off & on for over 24 hours when there is no sign of wound, swelling or damage, that send me running to the vet. That one is how her SLO initially presented & how we got on treatment even before shedding the first nail.

 

Vets should not be dispensing anti-b's without seeing the dog & the injury. Also, I am not of the opinion that anti-b's should necessarily be prescribed on a prophylactic basis for skin wounds. So it makes sense that a vet would decline to prescribed them in the OP's situation.

[Guest DorasMom]

I am so very lucky to have a wonderful vet! She will get me in all the time if there is a serious problem. She knows me well enough to trust my judgement when it comes to my dogs.

I can call her anytime to discuss any issue one of my hounds may be having. She doesn't insist that I come in for every little thing and will call prescriptions into my pharmacy for me. She trusts my knowledge and my love for my animals. This has come about by being her client for many years and by always being right when I've brought any of the dogs in to see her.

She doesn't try to press any procedures on me that arent needed. Infact there have been times when I've suggested a certain test or two and her answer has been "that's just an unessary cost because treatment will be the same regardless of the outcome".

I just love her, she's worth her weight in gold to me.

[PatricksMom]

Vet care is a last resort because I love my animals and don't like having to turn them over to vets who explain to me that "Its not about compassion." I am not a vet but with me it is ALL about compassion.

 

That's a terrible thing to say--I can't imagine any of my vets saying that, although I had a bad experience with an e-vet like that.

 

I don't rush into the vet for every little thing anymore, although I probably would have gone for a cut that large. My vet doesn't automatically use antibiotics just because there's a wound, so from the description she probably wouldn't have prescribed them even if she had seen the dog.

[MaryJane]

 

I can't believe your vet wouldn't give you antibiotics for a wound like that. That's ridiculous!

 

Well - the vet's take was that if was big enough to call about, they should SEE it to decide what treatments were necessary. I know it was only skin-deep, there was no skin to pull together to possibly stitch, and there was no bandage in the world that would work. So - I decined the $60 visit to have him tell me that.

 

I'm considering asking my adoption rep to send me a general range antibiotic course to have on hand. The group gets them in bulk, becuase their vet knows they know when to administer.

 

Luckily - Diana did not get infected, so it's a moot point in this case. But- if it was available to me, I'd have given her a course as a precaution in this case of such a large open wound.

This might not be the popular opinion here but, I have to agree with your vet. It would be completely irresponsible of them to dispense a medication without seeing the pet first.

If your hound had a reaction to the medication guess who would be liable? What about pain meds? Sad to say- they need to protect themselves -- maybe because I live in NJ but, here you have to always watch your back.

I also feel it would be wrong for your adoption rep to have given you meds. Bottom line- she/he is not a vet and shouldn't be dispensing prescription drugs. I know we are only talking about antibiotics but, one- they are being over used creating "super bugs" and two- only certain antibiotics are appropriate for certain organisms/infections.

I agree that you can't run to the vet every time your hound sneezes but, I don't think most pet owners are qualified to make that decision.

 

 

I agree with this response - meds should not really be dispensed without going to the vet first and making sure that it is the proper one to use.

 

On the original post regarding going to the vet - I think I go to the vet more now then I used to. I realize that many injuries/illnesses are better handled right at the beginning rather than waiting a day or two or a week. But, I trust my vets and the ER hospital here so that is a basis to my decision. I think in my case, this has actually been beneficial so that issues caught early did not turn into major problems.

 

Also, when an illness does turn into an emergency, it's going to be hard to get an appointment at your regular vet ASAP when you have already waited a week and allowed the condition to get to the point that it has.

[greytpups]

Ben cut his leg on a Sunday so I used some saline solution and kept it clean until the next morning until we could see our regular vet. I was wrong and ppor Ben and to be put under and get it stitched up. It would have been easier to repair right away because he could have pulled the skin back into place. However, he did mention that we could call him on a weekend because of who we are, so I will do that in the future. I hate to intrude, but it's our babies we're talking about.

 

Another time we took Ben to the evet. We call it the $500 burp. We kept debating and then decided to go. I thought I'd rather spend $500 than live with the guilt if something happened to him. So far I'm 0 for 2 in judging when they need to see the vet in an emergency.

[GeorgeofNE]

I think that it's more about experience with animals IN GENERAL than Greyhound ownership.

 

If you've spent your entire life living with and caring for animals, you're not going to freak out in the same way as someone who has their first dog.

 

I've also learned that you have to be an educated pet owner as well as an educated consumer. I ask upfront these days how much recommended treatments and tests are going to cost because I find that the vet is more than happy to run every test in the book, many of which often do nothing towards treating the problem.

 

I once had to pay $35 when a vet tech shaved a 1 x 1 square on top of Kramer's head to get a better look at a boo boo he had. All she said to me was, "Shall I clean this up?" I had a fit when I got my invoice--to no avail. The clinic simply refused to reverse the outrageous charge. Needless to say, my dog and three cats took our business elsewhere after that, but now I'm afraid I always ask, and I also ask what difference the test will make for my animal's well being.

[Guest KennelMom]

You definitely learn over the years what needs to be seen and what doesn't. If I have hesitation or doubt, I err on the side of going in. There are a LOT of wounds that can be healed at home with just a little TLC and good care. Not everything needs antibiotics (and I would not expect a vet to prescribe anything over the phone for an illness/injury they hadn't already seen).

 

Ben cut his leg on a Sunday so I used some saline solution and kept it clean until the next morning until we could see our regular vet. I was wrong and ppor Ben and to be put under and get it stitched up. It would have been easier to repair right away because he could have pulled the skin back into place. However, he did mention that we could call him on a weekend because of who we are, so I will do that in the future. I hate to intrude, but it's our babies we're talking about.

 

If you take something in, most vets are going to stitch it. That's what they do. That's how they make their living. Granted, things usually do heal faster and cleaner with some staples or stitches, even when they aren't really necessary.

 

Case in point: I took Diva in a a month or so ago b/c one of her ears was, basically, degloved. The skin was ripped off from about halfway down the outer ear, with just a tad bit of fur/skin left along the bottom edge. The e-vet wanted to AMPUTATE the ear. I actually argued with him for about 10 minutes over it. I said I came in to have the ear wrapped and get antibiotics. It may take longer to heal and it might not as pretty as it once was, but it WILL heal....and she'll still have her ear. He was trying to scare me with all these "might happen" stories...but we've healed a helluva lot of things at home w/o major intervention. And, I pointed out to him, we can always have the ear amputated later if it looks like it's not healing well. He realized I wasn't going to budge and gruffly told the vet tech (also our dog sitter) to wrap it and left an RX for antibiotics.

 

A couple weeks later, the ear was healed and you really couldn't even tell anything had happened to it other than a few scabs that were still hanging on. Our sitter was amazed when she came by to watch the hounds over Thanksgiving...I actually ran in to that vet when I was there with another dog and he asked about the ear. Score one for the pet owner.

Edited December 7, 2011 by KennelMom

[Guest budsmom]

I'm so fortunate with my vets, they are also my emergency vets - they rotate being on call. If I have any concerns, I call them and most times can get an answer over the phone without having to go in. Most of the time, I just need them to tell me what I should watch for that would necessitate bringing them in. Everyone at the clinic except the cleaning people know me on sight, Ive been a client for 25 years and they all understand how I feel about my animals. I've even called the docs at home when they haven't been on call.

[TheFullHouse]

I've learned over the years what injuries need to be seen by the vet and what injuries will heal fine on their own. Most internal problems I take to the vet though. Big injuries are seen by the vet but we don't have many injuries around here at all (knock on wood).

[Guest mcsheltie]

I've had a lot of experiences over the years, such as KennelMom described. With the last one it was a good thing I was experienced.

 

I took a girl into the E-vet with a closed pyo. They came out with a $2130.18 estimate One of the charges was a $100 bag of fluids. Good grief I buy them myself retail for $14. There was an ICU charge and a IV fluid charge. I told them I wasn't paying over $500. I asked what the IV fluid charge was and they both stared at the ceiling and shuffled their feet. Then one of them said it was a care charge to make sure the line didn't kink or get wrapped around the dog. I asked shouldn't ICU care cover that? That got marked off the list. When they saw I wasn't going to back down they agreed to $500.

 

I got a call from them at 2 am. They were in surgery and it was really bad. They advised I put her to sleep. I told them no way, spay her, close her up and I'd be in to transfer her first thing. They said they would need to place drains and can't remember what else. And the estimate was $2130.18. Now what are the odds it was exactly the same amount as the initial estimate!

 

I told them no, flush her and close her up. They said again I ought to put her to sleep. I've had experience with several ruptured pyos over the years and have gotten them all through it. My vet didn't need to do anything for my girl other than give me antibiotics and I gave her fluids at home (that cost $14 per bag) Put her to sleep my @$$!

 

For wounds such as you are describing I clean it out and stick the skin back in place with Nu-Skin. (which stings like the devil, so muzzle and get help) depending on the wound I'll give antibiotics or not. But I have been working with animals all my life. I started out in the horse business as a kid and as an adult was head trainer at several national stables. I've been breeding Maine Coon cats for 27 years and showing dogs as an AKC handler and breeding for 10 years. My pet sitter wanted to give her own antibiotics and asked me the dosage. I told her no. She should see a vet so she didn't mis-diagnosis something.

 

I think people should hold off treating their own animals long after they think they have the knowledge to do so. Instead play this learning game with yourself. Start by trying to decide what what is wrong in each situation and what treatment plan you would use. Then see if your vet does the same thing. If he doesn't, go home and do some research. If you still don't understand and ask the vet why.

Edited December 7, 2011 by mcsheltie