GreytNut Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I took Riley out to meet some of the neighbors today since there was a block party. He enjoyed himself, coming up to people for petting and watching with fascination as the kids had a water balloon fight. He met a lurcher who lives down the street (both were leashed) and they seemed to get along fine, wagging their tails and enjoying hanging out. Then the lurcher, who is unaltered, abruptly jumped on Riley and starting trying to hump him. Riley roared and whipped around as fast as a striking snake, biting off the tip of the lurcher's ear. It was over before anyone even had time to react. I was horrified. The lurcher's owner took it in stride, saying, "Well, he asked for it. He's a pervert. This isn't the first time he's gotten that kind of reaction. He should know better." I am thinking the humans should know better. The bleeding stopped and the lurcher is fine, though he is now sans ear tip. What cues should I have been looking for? They seemed to be getting along fine right up until the lurcher jumped onto Riley. They both appeared relaxed, with no growling or obvious aggression leading up to the event. Obviously the owner should've known better and kept his dog away if he knew what might happen, but I wonder what signs I missed. The lurcher did spend a lot of time sniffing Riley, which in retrospect may have been a clue, but then again most dogs like to sniff each other. I don't want Riley to get a reputation as a vicious dog in the neighborhood, and I feel bad for the lurcher. But I also think Riley saw it as simple self-defense. Also--it isn't likely to be an issue, but it's worth asking--who is liable for any vet bills that might arise? Both dogs were leashed. My dog did the damage, but the other dog did the provoking. Do we split the bill? Quote Kristen with Penguin (L the Penguin) Flying Penske x L Alysana Costarring The Fabulous Felines: Squeak, Merlin, Bailey & Mystic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmom Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 In this case? Lurcher's owner is liable. If both dogs were leashed I'm not sure how the lurcher was able to jump on Riley. Can't say without being there but sometimes you don't get much warning of things like this. Quote Star aka Starz Ovation (Ronco x Oneco Maggie*, litter #48538), Coco aka Low Key (Kiowa Mon Manny x Party Hardy, litter # 59881), and mom in IllinoisWe miss Reko Batman (Trouper Zeke x Marque Louisiana), 11/15/95-6/29/06, Rocco the thistledown whippet, 04/29/93-10/14/08, Reko Zema (Mo Kick x Reko Princess), 8/16/98-4/18/10, the most beautiful girl in the whole USA, my good egg Joseph aka Won by a Nose (Oneco Cufflink x Buy Back), 09/22/2003-03/01/2013, and our gentle sweet Gidget (Digitizer, Dodgem by Design x Sobe Mulberry), 1/29/2006-11/22/2014, gone much too soon. Never forgetting CJC's Buckshot, 1/2/07-10/25/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreytNut Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share Posted July 17, 2011 We were standing right next to each other. Both dogs were on 6-foot leashes, which were slack once initial introductions were done. I think we let our guard down too quickly. Quote Kristen with Penguin (L the Penguin) Flying Penske x L Alysana Costarring The Fabulous Felines: Squeak, Merlin, Bailey & Mystic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Timo Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Timo doesn't like it when dogs of other breeds sniff his butt, go under him, or otherwise get too close and at the same time out of his sight range. He'll wag his tail at first, but then all of a sudden, he'll bark and snap. He's never made contact, but I keep him away from other dogs while we are on walks now to be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFullHouse Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 That is a common reaction to having a dog jump on the back side of another. I don't know if you can actually predict when it's going to happen. If the lurcher has a habit of doing this, his owner should either warn the other dogs owner of the possibility, or keep her dog a safe distance from other dogs. Quote Judy, mom to Darth Vader, Bandita, And Angel Forever in our hearts, DeeYoGee, Dani, Emmy, Andy, Heart, Saint, Valentino, Arrow, Gee, Bebe, Jilly Bean, Bullitt, Pistol, Junior, Sammie, Joey, Gizmo, Do Bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mychip1 Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 My bridge boy Jack was not usually relaxed with other breeds, but tended not to be aggressive....until one did exactly what the lurcher did...and he spun quick and snapped. I was lucky he didn't catch him, but he clearly was not comfortable with the domination by the other dog. Quote Robin, EZ (Tribal Track), JJ (What a Story), Dustin (E's Full House) and our beautiful Jack (Mana Black Jack) and Lily (Chip's Little Miss Lily) both at the BridgeThe WFUBCC honors our beautiful friends at the bridge. Godspeed sweet angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest maidmarcia Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Licorice HATES to be dominated by other dogs. We've had to leave the dog park before because a cocker spaniel would not stop trying to hump him and it's owner was clueless. I told the lady, "My dog is getting upset..." and she said, "It's okay...he can tell my dog off..." Well, she would have been saying something else if Licorice had actually damaged her dog. I left the dog park with her dog harassing Licorice all the way to the gate. Even though he hates to be dominated, he always gives the other dog a chance to back off. He'll growl and bark sharply before he lunges. I have control of the situation long before that happens... I hate it when other people don't step in though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreytNut Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share Posted July 17, 2011 Riley really didn't give any warning. He snarled as he was lunging. His reaction makes a little more sense now, though. He is a highly dominant dog. If humping is a display of power, then I can see why he wouldn't tolerate it. Quote Kristen with Penguin (L the Penguin) Flying Penske x L Alysana Costarring The Fabulous Felines: Squeak, Merlin, Bailey & Mystic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerlinsMum Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Totally the other person's responsibility. Glad she took it in her stride - maybe she recognized that she should have been faster and pulled her dog back as soon as he jumped on Riley - but if things had become unpleasant, you still would not be legally responsible for any vet bills. Quite frankly I don't blame Riley at all! Merlin sometimes tries to hump submissive dogs at playgroup, it's harder for me to stop him right sway when he does it because it's a big ballfield and although I try to stay close to him these are greyhounds and they run fast, I can't be right on him to pull him off immediately, but I reprimand him immediately (and put him in a time out for a while) and if the other dog reacts, as far as I'm concerned Merlin asked for it. It's incredibly rude behavior. I would never blame the other dog's human in any way. I realize it must have been unpleasant and embarrassing, but I wouldn't worry too much about it. Quote Kerry with Lupin in beautiful coastal Maine. Missing Pippin, my best friend and sweet little heart-healer 2013-2023 Also missing the best wizard in the world, Merlin, and my sweet 80lb limpet, Sagan, every single day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BootsyCollins Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Argos hated being humped. He was a docile boy, bit he'd go ape at any dog that tried to hump him. So, from my perspective, what he did was normal dog communication. "Get off me, man." Quote Christie and Bootsy (Turt McGurt and Gil too) Loving and missing Argos & Likky, forever and ever. ~Old age means realizing you will never own all the dogs you wanted to. ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o_rooly Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Aston tolerates a lot (I found, when I was new to dog body language ), but he does NOT tolerate dominant humping or anything to that extent. I can't blame him; I just don't let him get into situations where that occurs, or if he is in close quarters with a strange dog, I warn the owner that Aston doesn't tolerate rude behavior on the part of other dogs and WILL express himself thusly. As for the lurcher's owner saying that the DOG should know better... it would be funny if it weren't so infuriating. Quote every day a tiny adventure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remolacha Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Like others have said, Riley's behavior was entirely appropriate. The other dog was rude, and Riley told him to back off, just bad luck that he caught the ear tip. The owner sounds pretty clueless. You shouldn't feel responsible, but I understand you feel sorry for the other dog and don't want people to think badly of Riley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissy Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Summit does not tolerate another dog mounting him. I can usually tell when the other dog is thinking about it and I'll get my dog out of there or tell the other dog off before he can do it. And if I'm not quick enough, well frankly the other dog asked for it. Summit occasionally gets a little too personal with intact females (i.e. dogs fresh off the track that haven't been spayed yet... like foster dogs) and he gets told off for it which is just fine by me. Quote Kristie and the Apex Agility Greyhounds: Kili (ATChC AgMCh Lakilanni Where Eagles Fly RN IP MSCDC MTRDC ExS Bronze ExJ Bronze ) and Kenna (Lakilanni Kiss The Sky RN MADC MJDC AGDC AGEx AGExJ). Waiting at the Bridge: Retired racer Summit (Bbf Dropout) May 5, 2005-Jan 30, 2019 Like us on Facebook! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greytpups Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 It's a an aggressive move by the lurcher, maybe Riley was giving him warning but the ear tip got in the way. Either way, the owner should be more vigilant in those situations if they are aware of this. Quote Jan with precious pups Emmy (Stormin J Flag) and Simon (Nitro Si) and Abbey Field. Missing my angels: Bailey Buffetbobleclair 11/11/98-17/12/09; Ben Task Rapid Wave 5/5/02-2/11/15; Brooke Glo's Destroyer 7/09/06-21/06/16 and Katie Crazykatiebug 12/11/06 -21/08/21. My blog about grief The reality is that you will grieve forever. You will not get over the loss of a loved one; you will learn to live with it. You will rebuild yourself around the loss you have suffered. You will be whole again but you will never be the same. Nor should you be the same, nor would you want to. ― Elisabeth Kübler-Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudzu Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 None of my dogs would tolerate that well. In their case if an ear tip ended up missing I would say it was accidental. As someone else put it, the ear tip just got in the way. If I had to choose one responsible party it would, without a doubt, be the lurcher's owners. However, it would seem reasonable to me to split the bill for any needed vetting. Except for this... I was horrified. The lurcher's owner took it in stride, saying, "Well, he asked for it. He's a pervert. This isn't the first time he's gotten that kind of reaction. He should know better." I am thinking the humans should know better. The above statement shows they were aware of the problem before hand & took no action to prevent it. Considering that I'd say they deserve to pay the full vet bill because, to paraphrase the lurcher's owners, they asked for it. They should have known better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnzaFerrari Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I've learned with Enza that when one dog starts to sniff her or pay a lot of attention to her, that something else is going to happen. Whether she will get snarky or the other dog will jump on her, but when there is focused interest in just one dog, I remove her immediately. I also learned the hard way to not surround her with lots of dogs/kids/people because she feels trapped and will be more on guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FountainLady Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Riley had every right to give the Lurcher an attitude adjustment. I think many greyhounds have little patience for rude behavior in other dogs. My sweet Rainy - who loves everything and everybody - once turned into Cujo when a foster dog hopped on her and tried to hump her. I now know she can take care of herself if need be. Quote CORY and CRICKET - Solitary Tremble & CASPER - Pj's Mia Farrow* With CAPT. GUS - Solitary Trigger, RAINY - Peach Rain, PUP - Red Zepher, DOC - CTW Fort Sumpterand MAX - Shiowa's Silver Maxamillion / Afghan .... all waiting at the bridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinM Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 sometimes a wagging tail isn't what dog owners think. I don't know how it was for your pups but if the tail is erect and wagging short erect wags back and forth fast, that is not a good thing. That is an accident about to happen and the dogs need to be immediately pulled back from one another. I am always surprised to see how many dog owners of all breeds think, "oh Fido and your dog really like each other, look at the waggy tails". OY. Quote ROBIN ~ Mom to: Beau Think It Aint, Chloe JC Allthewayhome, Teddy ICU Drunk Sailor, Elsie N Fracine , Ollie RG's Travertine, Ponch A's Jupiter~ Yoshi, Zoobie & Belle, the kitties. Waiting at the bridge Angel Polli Bohemian Ocean , Rocky, Blue,Sasha & Zoobie & Bobbi Greyhound Angels Adoption (GAA) The Lexus Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddgirl Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I agree with everyone who is saying that the snapping sounds like normal dog boundary-setting, and it's somewhat accidental that the other dog got hurt (I say somewhat because it sounds like the other owner is aware of the danger to his dog and just doesn't care) - if Riley had bitten with the intention to do damage, it would have been more than an ear tip. Quote Batman (racing name CTW Battle Plan) adopted May 2011, passed away July 2017 Buffy (racing name CTW Bathsheba) adopted Oct 2012, passed away March 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PhillyPups Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Sorry this happened. Obviously Riley does not swing both ways. I think I would react just like Riley should some stranger start humping me within minutes of meeting Do you know the lurcher's owners? I would ask why he is not neutered. Neutering could have an effect on this behavior, especially if it is his normal behavior and he is not corrected by his humans immediately upon trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryJane Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 sometimes a wagging tail isn't what dog owners think. I don't know how it was for your pups but if the tail is erect and wagging short erect wags back and forth fast, that is not a good thing. That is an accident about to happen and the dogs need to be immediately pulled back from one another. I am always surprised to see how many dog owners of all breeds think, "oh Fido and your dog really like each other, look at the waggy tails". OY. This is a very good point. There are good "wags" and there are bad "wags". If it is a stiff wag with short distance span and if the tail is pretty high up - it's excitement with dominance and the dogs are checking each other out and haven't decided whether they like each other yet. If it is a bad wag going even "badder", the dog might almost draw himself up to be higher. Sometimes if you look really closely, you might see a little bit of the ruff on the neck. A good wag is usually low, relaxed and seems to have a wider side span. A good check is to see their posture when they greet you after an absence - usually that will be the "good wag". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreytNut Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share Posted July 17, 2011 I've seen the "bad wag" before, so I know what you mean. I do pay attention to posture and have thought about exactly what happened. This is my best recollection. Initially both were cautious. Tails were high up and wagging stiffly. After a few seconds the lurcher's tail lowered and wagged more broadly. Riley's lowered only slightly but also wagged more broadly. It appeared that he was saying, "I'm in charge here, but you're OK." Postures relaxed. Sniffing commenced. Lurcher was enthusiastic. Once it was clear that they weren't going to eat each other, humans relaxed as well. Lurcher continued to sniff. I turned my attention to the owner and missed the moment when the lurcher decided to mount Riley. Next thing I saw was the lurcher on his hind legs pawing at Riley's back, and Riley whipping around to strike. Lurcher yelped and fell back, tucking his tail between his legs and cowering. Riley stood stiffly with his head and tail held very high, not wagging, staring at the other dog with hackles raised. He relaxed when the lurcher retreated behind his owner. Riley didn't hide behind me but pressed himself tightly against my legs. I did not scold him but took up all slack in the leash so that a second attack could not occur. About that time the lurcher started whimpering and I noticed his ear was bleeding. Quote Kristen with Penguin (L the Penguin) Flying Penske x L Alysana Costarring The Fabulous Felines: Squeak, Merlin, Bailey & Mystic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remolacha Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 I've got to say, that lurcher doesn't sound very bright Based on the lurcher's reaction, it doesn't sound like he was trying to be dominant, is he very young? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreytNut Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share Posted July 17, 2011 No, he's old and gray. He didn't seem especially bright, but I don't know him all that well. I do think some of his behavior has to do with being unaltered. His owner refers to him as a "dirty old man." Don't know the owner well enough to push for neutering (and now he may not want to get to know me) but will find a diplomatic way to suggest it if the opportunity presents itself. Quote Kristen with Penguin (L the Penguin) Flying Penske x L Alysana Costarring The Fabulous Felines: Squeak, Merlin, Bailey & Mystic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest iconsmum Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 First, I'm not sure why you think that it was "dominance"...which is a debunked behaviour theory anyway. The other dog was unaltered? He's got a full load of testosterone going and nowhere to dump it currently When dogs hump, it's about redirecting sexual urge. The lurcher got hormonally antsy and the grey did what all dogs do when they're annoyed by humping...he turned and grabbed and solved his problem. (It's also not at all uncommon for intact and neuter dogs to be indiscriminate about gender). And you're totally right - both humans sound like they're just not experienced enough to know that it was probably a matter of time before there was an issue between two mature different-smelling males. No matter, nothing really came of it and you have an opportunity to learn from the situation and add it to your repertoire of dog handling skills....that's how we all rack up chops in the dog world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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