Prayers For Dawn, Please

[Dawnnziggy]

I know that I have told you about Dawn's kidney trouble. I would not have known if we had not taken her to have her teeth cleaned. Her BUN and CRE numbers were VERY high. I asked the vet this past Friday about her. He says it is one of two things. She could just have an infection, which I hope is the problem! The other possibility is that she is going into kidney failure. We are going to give her an antibiotic for one week every month for a few months to see if that helps.

 

SHE DOES NOT ACT SICK! She still runs and plays. She eats, drinks, pees, and poops. Of course, she sleeps a lot. Ha! She does not seem to be in any pain. One of the technicians at the vet's office told me that it is not painful. Is this correct? I lost 2 cats to kidney failure(Persians are prone to this) and they were both in extreme pain.

 

On the other hand, I have a 12 year old DS. He is very worried about her. She goes to bed with him every night. She never gets into a human bed, but she lays on her doggie bed in there. Whenever there is a storm, she goes in and checks on him. She stands beside his bed to make sure he is okay. She gives him lots of kisses. He is very close to her. I have tried not to stress him out but I have told him about both possibilities. He wanted to know how long she could live if it is kidney failure. I told him that I did not know.

 

I don't know if it is wrong to pray for my girl, but I have been doing a lot of it lately. If you pray, please send up one for Dawn and my DS. We are all concerned and love her very much but I am very worried about the boy because she means so very much to him. She is our ornery, playful girl.

 

Sorry for the length of this post. Thanks for your thoughts and prayers for our sweet girl!

 

Judy

[Remolacha]

[greyhead]

Prayers you shall have. May I ask what her BUN and creatinine numbers are? And whether Dawn is on any kind of special kidney food?

[maggiespet]

Hoping it's an infection. Prayers for Dawn and DS.

[JJNg]

Sending good thoughts for Dawn.

 

Hope you don't mind me commenting on the medical side of things as well. Like Mary, I'm also wondering what Dawn's actual BUN and creatinine numbers were? Anything else off on her bloodwork, like electrolytes, calcium, phosphorus? What was the concentration (specific gravity) of her urine, and was there any protein in her urine?

 

I'm a bit concerned about the plan to "give her an antibiotic for one week every month for a few months to see if that helps". Using antibiotics like that is called pulse therapy, a controversial approach usually used to try to manage chronic infections that have an underlying cause that can't be addressed. Pulse therapy is usually used as a last resort for cases where you've essentially given up on clearing the infection, and you run a high risk of creating resistance.

 

If a bladder or kidney infection is suspected, the first step should be to try to document the presence of an infection by, at minimum, a urinalysis. A more thorough approach would be to do a urine culture as well as abdominal x-rays to rule out stones in the urinary tract that can be a source of infection. If you're going to try a course of antibiotics, I would do a single course, and then recheck bloodwork and urinalysis at the end of the course. With minimal signs, I might just do a 10-14 days course of antibiotics, but when there's concern about elevated kidney levels, as in Dawn's case, I'd probably go with a longer course of at least 3-4 weeks.

 

Abdominal ultrasound is another diagnostic test that will give you more information about her kidney status and would be something I'd strongly consider if the more routine tests don't give you a definite answer. Might be time to consider a 2nd opinion?

 

And to answer your question, in general, kidney disease is not painful for either dogs or cats. Persians are prone to polycystic kidney disease which can lead to kidney failure, and they can be painful from the cysts, not the kidney failure.

 

ETA: I believe Dawn didn't have her dental done because of the elevated kidney levels? How bad are her teeth? Bacteria getting into the bloodstream from the gums can be a source of infection in other areas of the body, including the kidneys. It would be safer to do a workup first to find out whether she really is in kidney failure before proceeding with a dental, but it may need to be done to prevent further kidney damage. Precautions can be taken to reduce the risk in dogs with kidney disease, such as adjusting the choice of anesthetic agent, and doing IV fluids before, during and after the procedure.

Edited April 25, 2011 by jjng

[Guest Scouts_mom]

I hope and pray that Dawn does not have kidney disease. Do find out what the BUN and Creatine numbers are. Greyhounds have different numbers than other dogs.

 

If it is kidney disease, it is not painful and with management of her diet, she may be with you for a while still. My Lizzy had kidney disease and she lead a very happy active life for about 8 months after it was found. Then she really went down hill, no energy, no appetite, lost weight, and her coat lost its softness. Finally I had to let her go.

[Batmom]

Looking back at your other thread, I'm guessing her BUN was 54 and there was protein in her urine?

 

Has she had a urinalysis and culture?

 

Have you tried diet modification (low sodium, low phosphorus, minimal high-quality protein) and Azodyl (a kidney supplement)? "Minimal" meaning the amount a dog her size needs, not excess.

 

If those things have been done to no avail then I would proceed to the ultrasound as well.

[heartdogs]

My DD had a beautiful girl that had polycystic kidney disease. It was found whe she was less than a yr old lived until she was 7. The vet said if Clo was kept fairly quiet she could live 5 years but if allowed to be a very active greyhound she would n't last than long. She lived a normal life, running, playing, earning the title Brindle Brat. We fed her the same food all the other dogs got with meds added and until the last few days no one would have known there was a problem. Good luck & there is nothing wrong with praying for your dog-she is part of the family.

Hugs to all.

[MP_the4pack]

Judy there is nothing wrong with praying for Dawn, she is after all one of God's creatures, too.

 

Hopefully it's nothing major, prayers coming her way.

[Guest greytkidsmom]

Judy there is nothing wrong with praying for Dawn, she is after all one of God's creatures, too.

 

Hopefully it's nothing major, prayers coming her way.

 

Like she said. Prayers, hugs, and good wishes for you, Dawn, and your DS.

[Guest eaglflyt]

I'm sending up prayers for Dawn and your sweet son, too.

 

I'd follow Batmom's recommendations.

[Guest Stripeyfan]

Adding prayers for Dawn.

[carronstar]

Adding prayers and good thoughts for Dawn.

 

I would definitely trust anything Batmom and/or jjng say!

[DesiRayMom]

More prayers for Dawn.

[Charlies_Dad]

Good thoughts for Dawn. I hope it's only an infection.

[Dawnnziggy]

Thank you all!

 

Here are her numbers: BUN 53

CRE 3.7

 

All of the rest of her numbers were in the normal range. The vet told me that bad teeth go with kidney disease. I feel very guilty. Her teeth look good though so I never thought that it was necessary. Her teeth are pretty! She has a bad tooth that needed to come out, it is even loose. I am not ready to lose her yet.

 

Oh, we are not giving her any special food. Do you have any suggestions?

 

You are all so wonderful! Thank you for your support!

[MaryJane]

I might recommend putting her on a kidney diet, either commercial or home-made.

[nmontgomery48]

prayers for Dawn and your son, hope all turns out well.

[Guest Scouts_mom]

Your vet should be able to provide you with the kidney diet. It is available only thru vets. My Lizzy thought the ID/science diet (?)one was disgusting, but she liked the Purina one. Or you could cook for your girl. Do an internet search for canine kidney diet.

[joejoesmom]

If you want a second opinion, you live within a reasonable drive to Ohio State University. They have a greyhound health and wellness program there and their vets know greyhounds inside and out. They also have wonderful specialists that the greyhound team consults with. The phone number is 614-292-3551. As a matter of fact, this group has done significant research into greyhound kidney values.

 

If you haven't had a culture and sensitivity done, I would definitely do one. It is important to do this before you start on antibiotics as the antibiotics can alter the results of the test. If it is a urinary tract infection, the sensitivity will determine the best antibiotic to use.

 

If it comes back with no bacteria, you should do a protein/creatinine ratio. This ratio helps determine if the protein in the urine is due to early (or any) stage kidney failure.

 

If you are seeing some kidney failure, you should put her on a prescription kidney diet and possibly some medicine to control the phosphorus in her blood. This can extend her life considerably (even for years) and she will still have a good quality of life. If it is early stage, the goal is to reduce the phosphorus in her diet. As the kidney issues get worse, you need to also reduce the protein in her diet and ensure the protein is from a quality source. Iams/Eukanuba makes an early stage renal diet. My Shelby did well on this for almost two years. Recently I had to change her to a regular renal diet (less protein). She didn't do well on the Purina (diarrhea) but does better on Hills (still soft stools but not runny). All of these are only available through your vet.

 

If this does not improve her labs, then I would look at doing an ultrasound.

 

Here is some info on blood kidney values in greyhounds from Dr. Feeman (although the levels you mentioned do seem high to me, but I am definitely not an expert:

 

Greyhounds can have high normal or mildly elevated BUN,

creatinine, and AST levels. Some veterinarians may falsely interpret some high normal

values as early kidney disease. If your Greyhound has high normal or just above normal

kidney values… ask your veterinarian to run a urinalysis. A urine specific gravity that is

>1.030 likely indicates that the blood levels are normal for the breed and not likely

caused by kidney disease. Diet, especially raw feeding, may also elevate the BUN and

creatinine. This can be screened for by fasting your Greyhound for 12-18 hours before

the blood draw.

Hope this info helps. Also, in my experience with my two older girls with early kidney disease, both of them drink more and need to urinate more often.

 

Jane

 

edited to add: Certainly it is okay to pray for your greyhound.

Edited April 26, 2011 by joejoesmom

[Dawnnziggy]

I have been in contact with my adoption group to see what they think about this too. I thought that maybe her vet would be more greyhound savvy. They didn't seem to be overly concerned.

 

We have talked about taking her to Ohio State. We took Ziggy there for his eye so going there is not a problem. Would I have to fast her to go there? Do I need to be referred by my vet?

 

I am sorry to be a pain! I feel like I have a million questions but I have to ask them because I am not ready to let my ornery little girl go!

 

Thanks for all ideas! Judy

[Batmom]

I think a consult would be worthwhile.

 

Meantime (or aftertime ), a couple things I have found with kidney numbers:

 

-1- An infection can elevate those numbers beyond what you'd think. So it's worthwhile to make 110% sure there is no infection. And if there is one, to make sure it's really gone after treatment (follow-up urinalyses and culture).

 

-2- Azodyl is a nutraceutical that seems to help reduce elevated BUN/creatinine in some cases. Innocuous capsule. Gidget (acute kidney failure incident, fully recovered) came to me on it and I have not taken her off altho her numbers have normalized now.

 

-3- Kidney diets are worth it. I prefer homeprepped to commercial but have also had a dog who ate commercial K/D for years, got quite old for her breed, and died of something unrelated to her chronic kidney disease.

[sabrina]

Dawn for you

[mychip1]

Best wishes....

[joejoesmom]

I have been in contact with my adoption group to see what they think about this too. I thought that maybe her vet would be more greyhound savvy. They didn't seem to be overly concerned.

 

We have talked about taking her to Ohio State. We took Ziggy there for his eye so going there is not a problem. Would I have to fast her to go there? Do I need to be referred by my vet?

 

I am sorry to be a pain! I feel like I have a million questions but I have to ask them because I am not ready to let my ornery little girl go!

 

Thanks for all ideas! Judy

I don't think you have to be referred. When you call the main number, tell them you have a greyhound and what is going on. My best guess is that they will have you come in through the greyhound health and wellness program.

 

I don't know about fasting. I guess it would depend on the tests they need to run. You could come in the morning and bring some food with you so you (or they) can feed her when it is OK to do so.

 

Be sure to bring her complete history and all of the test results for the last year or so.

 

Jane