One With Osteo One With Broken Femur

[lovinggreysslp]

Last Thursday we found out one of our hounds, Trip, has osteo. Tonight, Larry was whirling around to tell another hound that he did not want to play in the yard and he starts screaming. I ran to him and found a completely limp right leg. I thought it was a dislocation. After traveling to our vet, xray showed a break in the lower portion of his femur. Our vet sent us to the local university vet clinic to have him admitted and for surgical repair options tomorrow. The alarming part of this is that while there was not any signs of the nasty shadow and edges on Larry's xray, why did the bone break like that? Our vet also was concerned about that. So, tomorrow I will find out whether I now have two with osteo. Does anyone have experience with their greys breaking their femur? On the bright side, we drove through black ice to get Larry to both vets without incident. What a night. Thanks for any thoughts. I am a bit overwhelmed.

[Charlies_Dad]

Oh my, I am sorry your are going through this. I hope it's only a break for Larry as if that's enough. We will keep you, Larry and Trip in our thoughts.

[Zoolady]

I wish I had more words. Our prayers are with you and your pups.

[tbhounds]

Oh no-just doesn't seem possible but, there really would be no other cause other than the dreaded OS. The fact that the break is right above the knee is also cause for concern. Can the vet perform an aspirate to confirm the diagnosis?

[lovinggreysslp]

I will talk to the vet in the morning so I want get all my questions ready. I told the on call vet that I wanted to rule out osteo. The vet said that they would be consulting with oncology. I will ask about doing an aspiration. Thankfully, we just got the call that there is no school again tomorrow so I can focus on making the best decisions for Larry. I just can't believe this is happening.

[Remolacha]

how scary for you! I hope it is "just" a broken leg

[Guest Swifthounds]

[luvhounds2]

How awful. Sending many good thoughts your way to see you thru this ordeal.

 

Will hope the leg is "just" broken, and can be set & heal just fine.

[KF_in_Georgia]

I'm so sorry Larry has been hurt.

 

I know of two dogs on GreyTalk who had broken legs where initial x-rays did not show cancer. (You can probably name them both yourself: Wilbur and Archie.) Both dogs had pins placed because the breaks were in bad locations. But, despite the early good x-rays, cancer eventually showed up in both dogs, and the dogs had to be put to sleep. Wilbur was a senior dog; Archie was only 6.

 

I think my Oreo might have wound up a third member of this unhappy group: at the age of 8, she broke her humerus in the living room, doing nothing (as far as I know). X-rays showed no sign of cancer, so the surgeon implanted a pin. Oreo threw a blood clot in surgery and died; if she hadn't, I think we'd have had a miserable time with her trying to heal (she was a rotten patient at the best of times), then eventually had to amputate--or would have lost her to metastases before amputation.

 

If I had it to do again, seeing the stories I've seen on GT, I'd have gone for amputation after that first x-ray. Even if we'd wound up removing a perfectly sound (though broken) leg with no signs of cancer--ever, ever--Oreo would have had a much smoother (and fuller) recovery from an amputation than from weeks and months of immobility with a pin in her leg. If it had been a sensible break--if she'd been running, if I'd seen her step in a hole, if it looked like a break that could be splinted--I might have a big internal debate. But an out-of-the-blue, absolutely-no-reason-for-it freaky break (the surgeon described it as a spiral fracture)--that would set off every alarm bell.

 

Actually, it sort of did. I took Oreo to the e-vet that night, convinced that they would find cancer. I didn't know then that OS could be present in dogs but not yet show on x-rays, so when the vet said "no cancer," I seized on the idea of "fixing" what was broken and putting things back the way they were. Today, even if I had it in writing from god that there was no cancer and never would be, I still don't think I would put a dog through the long-lasting discomfort of pinned bones just to save the leg--not now that I've seen how well tripods can function.

[lovinggreysslp]

So the recovery from amputation would be smoother for a 10 year old than putting a pin in his leg? There is no other way to rule out osteo than X-ray? Sorry for all the questions. I am going to have to make fast decisions tomorrow morning.

[RedFawnMom]

So the recovery from amputation would be smoother for a 10 year old than putting a pin in his leg? There is no other way to rule out osteo than X-ray? Sorry for all the questions. I am going to have to make fast decisions tomorrow morning.

 

I am so, so, sorry to hear you have two injured/ill hounds, my heart sank when I saw this.

 

The most definitive way to rule it out is with a needle aspiration/biopsy, but I'm not sure where they'd insert the needle if there's no visible lesion. I guess the most likely spot for there to be cancer cells would be at the site of the break?

 

ETA: I think the fear with trying to repair the bone is that if it's osteo, it won't heal, so you'll have to amputate anyway. Our ortho vet has had this happen once - X-ray was clear, she put in a pin but the bone didn't heal. The owners chose to amputate after the failed repair and when the pathology report came back, it was osteo.

Edited February 3, 2011 by RedFawnMom

[KF_in_Georgia]

So the recovery from amputation would be smoother for a 10 year old than putting a pin in his leg? There is no other way to rule out osteo than X-ray? Sorry for all the questions. I am going to have to make fast decisions tomorrow morning.

 

Ask the vet how long they think he'd be immobilized with a pin. I'm betting 8 weeks minimum. Recovery time from amputation? Well, Dude is on his feet after two weeks, stitches just out. For more about what to expect after an amputation, see here: BigOrangeDog's blog.

 

Osteo can be confirmed by x-ray and by biopsy/needle aspiration. But I think any vet will tell you that it can't be ruled out by those procedures: osteo might not show on x-rays, but still be present. Aspiration of cancerous cells can confirm the presence of cancer; but an aspiration that doesn't contain cancerous cells might just have missed the right (or wrong) pocket of nasty cells.

 

One serious concern for Larry is how well he gets around now. Does he have back end weakness? If so, either orthopedic surgery or amputation could present a problem for him if the remaining leg isn't strong enough to support him.

 

Try this: plot out the impact for Larry of amputation-vs-orthopedic surgery. How mobile--and how comfortable and happy--is he likely to be with each procedure six weeks from now? Three months? Six months? A year? And what if the surgery and recovery don't go well. I'm not talking about the lightning-bolt blood clot like Oreo had; that's a risk with either surgery. But what if the pinned break just doesn't heal well? Will it take longer for him to heal since he's an older boy? When you consider the impact for Larry, consider the orthopedic surgery as "successful" vs "unsuccessful" in terms of his recovery. Ask the surgeon which surgery has the greatest risk to his life? Which has the greatest risk of "failure" (as in not getting the result you expect and want)?

 

And maybe think about Larry's recovery totally separate from the question of cancer. What would you decide if the vet says "Absolutely positively no cancer, I guarantee it"? And ask the vet: "Assume there's no cancer. Which choice would give Larry the best quality of life?"

[KF_in_Georgia]

Whether you go with amputation or not, read BigOrangeDog's blog. One recommendation she makes is "Order Aminocaproic Acid (a brand name is Amicar)." Amicar is used to control post-op bleeding greyhounds sometimes suffer from. You'll want this on hand for Larry regardless of which surgery he faces.

 

Reading that blog will answer lots of questions for you and maybe prompt you with a few more.

 

Good luck to you and Larry--with whatever you decide.

[sabrina]

not offering any opinion. Just hope the best for your pups.

 

[Guest PhillyPups]

For you first. I cannot imagine what an emotional whirlwind you are in.

 

One question I ask my vets is if this was your pet, what would you do?

 

You will stay in my prayers.

[lovinggreysslp]

Thank you for all the information and support. The recovery for the pin insertion will involve at least 6 weeks of being crated. The question about whether Larry would do well on three legs in terms of rear end instability made me remember how incredibly unstable he is since getting one toe removed from the same leg a couple years ago. He also has had shaky legs especially in the morning for the last couple years and recently did a couple splits where he could not get up without help. I will go read bigorgedog's blog and consider all the pros and cons. I will try to make a decision that I think is best for Larry. Thanks again.

[marion]

You must be devastated...so many problems at a time. I feel for you and wish you a quick recovery at least for Larry...I would ALWAYS try to AVOID amputation but go the classic way of healing the leg.

My Ivy broke his front leg years ago and he was in a kind of cast for 3 weeks and then he had a fixed bandage for another 3 weeks. After that time reeducation of normal walking started and he recovered

100%. No limping or weakening of the leg ever. He could run full speed like always after that time...I wish you luck with Larry...

[Batmom]

Oh my word. No advice, just hugs for you and your pupper.

[GreyPoopon]

I'm so sorry.

 

Another broken femur: my Cora. Broken March '09. No sign of OS on the x-rays. Leg pieced back together with plate, screws, and wires. Rocky "recovery". OS finally showed up in October. Too late at that point to do anything but say goodbye.

 

On a happier note, nygreys's Lass broke her femur, was put back together, and is still with us. It's been about a year, if I recall correctly. I believe that they did a biopsy while repairing the leg.

[MP_the4pack]

If you do decide to go the amp route, I just want to let you know I did it to my Diamond 3 weeks before her 12th BD. It took about 2 weeks to get over the worst of it. I did build a ramp for her (it was a front leg) so she could get in and out of my house.

 

OS showed up in another leg 6 mnoths later. But it was a very good 6 months.

[Tallgreydogmom]

Our Candy broke her leg in the yard. First x-rays showed no cancer, x-rays the next month showed the cancer so we amputated. I so wish I had jumped on it the month before and amputated. Last year we had 3 greyhounds with osteo within a month of each other. We had 3 tripods at one time.

 

PM me if you would like to talk. I know what my decision would be.

 

Hugs and kisses to Trip and Larry

[Guest Adrianne]

I just want you to know I'm sending you tons of good thoughts and prayers. I know it's devastating.

 

I also wanted to bring up something else. Once Wilbur's leg was pinned back together, the vet expected he would start using it within a week. However, he never used the leg again, and the vet attributed it to severe nerve damage. So Wilbur was a three legged dog anyway, just carrying around extra dead weight.

 

Wilbur did just fine using three legs, and I think he would have done wonderfully with an amp, and he was right at 12 years old. I would have no qualms about amputation with the right dog.

 

If you do go the route of having a pin inserted, I will be more than happy to share any of my experience with you.

[lovinggreysslp]

I have been listing the pros and cons of our options. Larry has had signs of hind end instability for a couple years. His rear two legs shake especially in the mornings while getting ready for our morning walk. Since having a toe removed, he has been apt to topple over easily. Also, recovery from the toe removal was rough for him even though he healed just fine. In addition, Larry came to us with a significant anxiety disorder. Lots of things to consider but.I do not see amputation meeting larry's current physical or psychological needs. Mu mantra today has to be "do what is best for Larry". He has had eight wonderful years with us. A wise greytalker wrote that dogs live in the here and now. Larry's now is not good and I need to figure out whether his future now will improve. Thanks again for all your support.

[NeylasMom]

I'm at a loss. I'm so sorry you're possibly facing this hard decision with 2 dogs. I just can't imagine.

[Guest mcsheltie]

Best wishes and prayers for both Trip and Larry.

 

We had a dog shatter a leg over a year ago. At the time her "now" was pretty horrid. But she is fine now and can run like the wind. It wasn't Osteo. Here is a pic of the break. I can't find the one of the plate and all the pins. But she has impressive set of hardware.