Thinking Of Going Raw...

[seeh2o]

I am thinking of switching Carl from kibble to raw. Because he is hypothyroid we believe he has a secondary diagnosis of hyperlipidemia and his body is not efficiently processing cholesterol. Hence his corneal rings and some other problems that have cropped up. He is on good kibble and has healthy treats, but I'm beginning to wonder if processed food is part of the problem. He is on Kirkland Lamb & Veggie kibble.

 

I've read through the posts about feeding raw and have a couple of questions that I have not seen answered:

 

1) What do you do when you have to board the dog or travel? Can they be switched to a kibble just before you leave so they can eat kibble while they are being boarded?

 

2) For those of you feeding raw now, can I leave one on kibble and switch the other to raw without fighting? I already feed them in separate rooms as Claire was too shy to eat in front of anyone when she came to us. Edited to add that the reason I'm considering not switching Claire over is that she doesn't have any medical issues and is doing really well on the kibble...and co$t of 1 vs 2 on raw.

 

Thanks!

Edited January 5, 2011 by seeh2o

[Sambuca]

I was just talking to a client who feeds raw about kibble for travel. Just like any time you switch foods, you don't want to do it quickly. At first, I would do one meal kibble, one meal raw and see if there are any improvements. If there are, maybe that will work for you and if so, when you travel, he will adjust better to all kibble than switching from a raw diet. If you want to do all raw, then a week or 2 before hand, start switching him over, just like you would switch foods normally.

 

As for the fighting, unless they are prone to fighting, I wouldn't imagine it causing a huge problem especially if they are fed apart. If you feel bad for Claire, give her a bite or 2 of raw in her kibble and she'll be pretty happy.

[Hubcitypam]

When I worked at the day care people that fed raw left either roll or more often frozen cubes that we thawed and fed their dogs. The names escape me now.

[Remolacha]

I feed Fletcher raw almost all the time because of his IBD. He can only handle a kibble meal a couple of times a week. For financial reasons, I feed the girls kibble in the morning and raw at night with no problems. For traveling, I think most people use the commercial frozen raw stuff, but I haven't traveled much, so I'll let others say what they do

[Guest snoopycomehome]

I recently started raw, and it has been surprisingly easy! I buy all my raw stuff...divide it up and put it in gallon size bags for each day. I freeze some and leave some in the fridge lined up on a pan. I pull one from the front and throw a frozen bag in the back.

 

Each a.m. I simply dump the contents of the bag on the back lawn. I used to drink my coffee out back to make sure he didn't choke, but he does greyt with the bones. Now I just monitor from the kitchen window and stay warm

 

My husband insists on feeding kibble ("there's stuff in kibble he needs") although I asked him what dogs do in the wild without kibble...? Anyways, I agreed to one cup (max)of kibble per day b/c hubby says "he likes to graze"...and he actually does seem to like it.

 

I already figured out that when we go to the inlaws I will have a separate cooler for him with one raw bag per day, plus a small amount of kibble.

 

One other thing...I make him a 'slurry' every evening of 4-5 various things: an egg, pumpkin, tomato paste, wild rice, sweet potato, green peas, fresh smushed carrots (that I get free from Jamba Juice), applesauce, etc. and squirt in 2 fish oil capsules. He loves it and pretty much inhales it. While traveling, I would skip it though.

 

Hope that helps and good luck with it! I searched the forums and found a ton of threads relating to raw.

[Batmom]

What tests have been done? Has he been retested after a lower-fat diet trial?

[racindog]

Freeze dried raw is very portable. Solid Gold has Buckaroo Beef patties that are great.

[Guest Swifthounds]

I am thinking of switching Carl from kibble to raw. Because he is hypothyroid we believe he has a secondary diagnosis of hyperlipidemia and his body is not efficiently processing cholesterol. Hence his corneal rings and some other problems that have cropped up. He is on good kibble and has healthy treats, but I'm beginning to wonder if processed food is part of the problem. He is on Kirkland Lamb & Veggie kibble.

 

I've read through the posts about feeding raw and have a couple of questions that I have not seen answered:

 

1) What do you do when you have to board the dog or travel? Can they be switched to a kibble just before you leave so they can eat kibble while they are being boarded?

 

2) For those of you feeding raw now, can I leave one on kibble and switch the other to raw without fighting? I already feed them in separate rooms as Claire was too shy to eat in front of anyone when she came to us. Edited to add that the reason I'm considering not switching Claire over is that she doesn't have any medical issues and is doing really well on the kibble...and co$t of 1 vs 2 on raw.

 

Thanks!

 

1) If you package one day's meal in freezer bags for each day you'll be away, many boarding facilities and most pet sitters will feed it without issue - after all, you are paying them. You can also temporarily switch to a "commercial" prepared raw diet or kibble for short periods (as a suggestion, if you opt for this route, do the change over before you go away so it isn't a big change that the dog can associate with the boarding), though whether you want to make a lot of changes with an IBD dog is another thing.

 

2)You can, though you may not want to. If you can feed them two different kibbles in two different areas now, then you should have no problem. You may want to switch them both (or your second hound may want it.)

 

I was just talking to a client who feeds raw about kibble for travel. Just like any time you switch foods, you don't want to do it quickly. At first, I would do one meal kibble, one meal raw and see if there are any improvements. If there are, maybe that will work for you and if so, when you travel, he will adjust better to all kibble than switching from a raw diet. If you want to do all raw, then a week or 2 before hand, start switching him over, just like you would switch foods normally.

 

I would not recommend a half and half switch either way. With few exceptions, dogs switched over to raw slowly have greater incidence of GI upset than dogs switched cold turkey. Once the dog is adjusted to raw and is settled and eating a variety, you can switch back to kibble without transitioning over a few days as with kibble.

[Guest greyhound9797]

I am thinking of switching Carl from kibble to raw. Because he is hypothyroid we believe he has a secondary diagnosis of hyperlipidemia and his body is not efficiently processing cholesterol. Hence his corneal rings and some other problems that have cropped up. He is on good kibble and has healthy treats, but I'm beginning to wonder if processed food is part of the problem. He is on Kirkland Lamb & Veggie kibble.

Congratulations on considering switching to raw! I'm a firm believer that it can not only help numerous health issues in dogs but keep dogs healthier in the long run, even those that don't have medical issues.

 

1) What do you do when you have to board the dog or travel? Can they be switched to a kibble just before you leave so they can eat kibble while they are being boarded?

As a professional pet sitter, I would recommend leaving your greys at home while you travel but some dogs actually do better in a kennel environment. If that's the case with yours then I would search for a kennel NOW who is willing to feed raw. I know that not all will and some even charge extra if you bring your own food but if you research your options now and find one that is suitable you won't be scrambling when it's time for you to travel.

 

All you would need to do is put each meal in a Ziploc bag with your dogs name and time of feeding (if you feed 2x per day and add anything different to each meal). This way the kennel staff can simply dump the bag contents into the bowl.

 

2) For those of you feeding raw now, can I leave one on kibble and switch the other to raw without fighting? I already feed them in separate rooms as Claire was too shy to eat in front of anyone when she came to us. Edited to add that the reason I'm considering not switching Claire over is that she doesn't have any medical issues and is doing really well on the kibble...and co$t of 1 vs 2 on raw.

If they are already fed separately and used to that set up then there shouldn't be a problem other than jealousy when Claire sees you preparing food for Carl With that said...she may be doing really well on kibble but may do better on raw. It's the healthiest food to feed. Depending on the cost of the kibble you're feeding now to the cost of raw it may not be that much more expensive to switch them both. You'll have to do a little research to find the best deals on your meat, bone and organs but you'd be doing a good thing for Claire. I had Piper on Eagle Pack and found that I spent a little less when I switched to raw.

 

Sandra in FL

[MTFSTHNDS]

I feed mine raw and package up the food for each meal in a separate bag/container. When I travel with the dogs, I take a cooler and have it full of frozen meals. Last year when I went to Kanab I did put some dry ice in the cooler. I have a pet sitter come to the house and since everything is prepackaged, she just dumps it in their bowls or hands them the item.

 

I haven't had to go back to kibble since I started the raw so can't really answer that part of the questions!

[RobinM]

As far as when you leave them, I wouldn't switch them back to kibble as it will really mess up their stomachs, but instead have them eat the prepacked frozen patties that instinct or primal sells.

 

My Teddy was just diagnosed as hypothyroid and he is raw fed.

[MaryJane]

My only suggestion is that if you are going to prepare raw food for someone else to give make sure that it does not contain bones. Kennels/pet sitters may not be aware of possible choking issues and might not realize that the dog should be watched while being fed. Kennel workers might just put the food down and leave to do other duties. Also, don't expect that a kennel would feed your dog at the time being requested (written on the bag) or fed twice a day. Unfortunately, at some kennels you can't even be sure that your dog will be fed what you brought in.

 

Someone suggested that you start looking for kennel/pet sitter now and I think that is a good idea. You want to take a look at the kennel and see how they store food that you would bring in and how a kennel worker would know that a dog is on "special diet". Years ago when I worked at a vet hospital that did boarding, we had a chart by a dog's cage and all the dog's information about his stay along with diet (if special where it was located, refrigerator or pantry) and medical conditions were easily accessible. You also want to talk to the kennel workers and get an idea whether they seem dedicated and if the kennel is kept clean.

[Guest Ola]

For traveling, it really depends who your dog will be staying with while you're gone. Ours mostly stay with family members, in which case I just bag their food in one-day portions (for both dogs together) and they thaw, separate and feed. I choose simple one or two piece meals for this, nothing challenging or that would take a while to chew. I would do it similarly if we had a pet sitter, since she will watch your dogs and they will eat at your home - just leave precise instructions (who is fed where, etc.). Since many raw fed dogs are fed once a day anyway this may be even easier than feeding kibble as long as you have a clear routine in place.

 

When they were in a boarding facility I bagged their food individually and marked which was for who (I have one 35 and one 75 lb dog so they are not interchangeable). I packed a fair amount of ground meat and quickly eaten bone. I think a pre-made raw would work well in this situation also, personally I'd choose one with just meat and bone, no veggies, as that's something I don't feed my dogs and may cause tummy upset. I think many kennels feed in crates anyway to avoid potential food fights/arguments, but if they don't I'd request this.

 

Can you keep one dog on kibble and feed one raw? Sure, and I wouldn't expect any fights as long as they're separated while eating and don't guard the places where they do eat. I can tell you though that most people who try to do this end up switching both dogs to raw once they see the benefits. Certainly once you have a bunch of raw items on hand it will be easier to give your kibble fed dog raw treats here and there, which I'm sure she will enjoy.

[seeh2o]

Wow, thanks for all the good information! When I go out of town I usually drive all of us to Las Vegas where they either stay with my s/o or Dana (the greyhound Maven of Las Vegas!), Carl has SA, but it's not bad when he is at someone else's house. I shudder to think how he would react to someone staying with he and Claire here. OY! My concern was about traveling with raw food and/or switching him to kibble while out of town and having him develop tummy problems or the big D. From what it sounds like, he might be fine with the switch over...he has a pretty strong gut.

 

While both are food motivated, neither is guarding or protective of their food, so it sounds like if I switch Carl to raw and keep Claire on kibble...with raw treats in her food, of course (!), it wouldn't be a problem.

 

His last bloodwork was all normal, but that was last March. The cholesterol was 170, but it wasn't a cholesterol panel that breaks the types down. We reviewed his diet and she felt that it was already a low fat diet. He doesn't get human food, eats the Kirkland Lamb kibble and gets a variety of healthy snacks (CA Natural baked small health bars, 1/2 a Trader Joe's peanut butter dog cookie, dried sweet potato and dried potatoes that I dry in a food dehydrator at home, Kirkland lamb jerky sticks and occasionally, a raw turkey neck). I'm going to take him early this year (next week) to have his thyroid panel done and I'm going to ask for a super chem panel along with a full cholesterol panel. What brought all this on was that he developed some under the skin bumps (not attached to bone), 3 on his lower back leg, two small ones on one ear and two on his nose. When I took him to the vet a couple of weeks ago she said a) she did not think they were mast cell tumors, but couldn't rule it out 100% yet; 2) they are too small to do a needle aspiration so she wants to monitor them; 3) she believes they are cholesterol deposits given his problem with his eyes (perilimbal lipid keratopathy). She practices both western medicine and homeopathic, so she started him on Niacinimide daily and Apis twice a week. I'm not as patient about it as she is, but I do trust her. I asked her if she thought he might be better off if I switched him to raw and she thought it might be a good idea and might help with the "bumps".

Edited January 5, 2011 by seeh2o

[Guest mcsheltie]

I would switch them both to raw. It would be easier to have them on the same diet. Not fair one dog gets good food while the other doesn't! But you won't have any problems if you decide not to either.

 

When I travel (and I do constantly, I show dogs for a living) I usually bring that evening meal with me in a cooler and then stop in a grocery each day. Take it back to the motel and feed them. One day I'll buy bony chicken parts, the next maybe buy stew meat or chicken gizzards & hearts, ground turkey or beef, canned mackerel or salmon. I only buy things they are used to eating at home.

 

If you have someone else taking care of them keep it simple. Most people who object to raw diets do so because of the bones. Besides, unless you are gone for two months they don't have to have a balanced diet. As everyone else suggested put the meals in baggies. But make simple ones. Ground meat with calcium powder or egg shell powder (1000 mg calcium or 1/2 tsp egg shell powder per lb meat) will do just fine for a couple of days.

 

Other things to throw in the bag - if you feed veggies, throw a little veggie mush in each bag. If you feed eggs throw one of those in there. Add a 1-2 oz piece of liver to each bag if they are eating liver.

 

If you are going to be gone for a long period have them give 1/2 a human multi vitamin/min per day. That will cover your bases.

 

I wouldn't use the commercial raw diets if they are not eating that normally. Those have all kinds of ingredients in them and are as apt to cause Big D as anything else. Going back and forth with kibble also isn't a great idea. They are stressed enough with you not being there. Keep their food the same.

[NeylasMom]

Seems like you've gotten good answers already. I don't board my dogs so I'm pretty useless with the first questions as my friends who sit my dogs will all give them their raw foods, but regarding the second - I bet if you switch one, you will eventually want to switch the other when you start seeing the benefits. Until then, it should be fine to feed one kibble and the other raw if you're keeping them separated for feeding. I think the latter is smart anyway regardless - no pressure for any dogs to eat faster, even if they're all kibble fed.

 

Good luck with the switch! I hope it goes well.

[Guest FreddyGirl]

My 4 eat one raw and one kibble meal each day. Learned the hard way, after 3 days of feeding 2 raw meals per day, that you can't just simply go back to kibble, Hilary got the big d. So, I just do one of each per day.

[seeh2o]

Bumping to add that Carl's bloodwork came back...mine should look so good! He is exactly where he should be for a sighthound and his thyroid is perrrrrfect, too.

 

I just bought turkey necks (cut in half), some cubed beef heart ($3.49), some chicken backs ($1.99 a lb) and ground chicken backs & necks w/veggies ($2.79). Are these prices over the top, average or somewhere in between?

[Guest greybookends]

Bumping to add that Carl's bloodwork came back...mine should look so good! He is exactly where he should be for a sighthound and his thyroid is perrrrrfect, too.

 

I just bought turkey necks (cut in half), some cubed beef heart ($3.49), some chicken backs ($1.99 a lb) and ground chicken backs & necks w/veggies ($2.79). Are these prices over the top, average or somewhere in between?

I don't live in LA so I don't know if those prices are high for the area or not but compared to NC those are VERY high. I can get all of that for usually under $1.50 a lb.

 

I just wanted to add that if you use a commercially packaged raw food for when you travel you may want to buy some first. They are VERY expensive and not all dogs will eat them. I feed a raw diet and my gang will not touch the commercial raw. If you are traveling and just feeding one the cost might be exceptable but for me, feeding 6, it is WAY to expensive.

[seeh2o]

Ouch. I bought it at a butcher shop, organic stuff. I probably need to shop elsewhere. I wonder if I can buy the chicken backs at Costco?

[Guest Lakota]

Ouch. I bought it at a butcher shop, organic stuff. I probably need to shop elsewhere. I wonder if I can buy the chicken backs at Costco?

I agree, those prices are much higher than what we would pay here. However, it is organic, so that may account for the price difference.

 

I find I get the best prices and selection at the asian markets.

Edited January 23, 2011 by Lakota

[Guest Ola]

Really, I wouldn't be too set on finding chicken necks or backs. I don't feed either normally, unless they're really cheap and I need a bit of bone to balance a big hunk of boneless meat. You get much more for your money with things like chicken leg quarters cause they have more meat. With necks/backs you really need to add boneless meat to every meal or you will have some constipated dogs!

[seeh2o]

Carl's first full day on raw was yesterday. Breakfast: 1/2 turkey neck, 2 patties of Primal turkey and sardines (I'm using premixed patties until I can go shopping this weekend) Dinner: 1/2 lb of chicken mix (from butcher shop) and 1 large chicken back. He seemed satiated. This morning's walk was amazing....one large tootsie roll, four peanuts, a small handful of mixed nuts and 3 pralines!!!!!!!!!

[Guest Swifthounds]

 

I was not popular at GIG last year for this reason: Five hounds, one poop bag.

[Guest mcsheltie]

In the beginning feeding a large quantity of bone will help keep stools firm. But once your dog is used to raw you don't want to feed chicken backs. They are over 40% bone. Keep in mind the 80/10/10 ratio. I don't even like to feed leg quarters, too much bone (around 30%). I buy whole chickens and cut them in half. If you find your dog can't handle the fat take the skin off.

 

I have actually done a balanced diet for my dogs (i.e. run the NRC numbers) and they get two meals of bone-in chicken a week. Everything else is muscle meat & organs. Any more bone than that and the mineral content is too high and is also unbalanced. For example there would be too much calcium and that affects how other minerals are absorbed.

 

Zinc is one of the minerals lacking in most raw diets. And too much calcium binds zinc. You feed canned oysters (about 6 oz per week) for added zinc.

 

Like I said, don't worry about too much bone in the beginning, but aim for it being less than 10% of the total diet. Feed as much red meat as you can. 5% liver is mandatory and the more variety you find for the other 5% (kidney, sweatbreads, pancreas etc...) the better. See if you can find beef heart (it is fed as muscle meat, not organs). Be aware that these things can cause loose stool, so introduce them slowly (an ounce or two at a time).