Is A Growl Ever Not A Growl? Not The Ear Groanie Sound.

[Tracey]

Update March 11: On Saturday February 27 we took Rufus and Reggie to a Greyhound activities class put on by a local trainer. We had Jason handle Rufus as I thought this would be a good trust building exercise. It was an enlightening day as we realized Rufus is much less confident about things in general than we imagined. He was by far the most unsure Grey in the class. Based on this experience and what we'd been seeing at home, we kind of revisited the idea that maybe Rufus was growling at Jason out of fear.

 

So Jason's continued feeding Rufus, giving him treats and participating more with all the dogs. When he interacts with Rufus, such as petting him, he keeps it brief and we both tell him what a good boy he is. I got the idea that maybe if I praised him as well as Jason that it would carry more weight, since Rufus has never once growled at me when I've done any of the same things he's growled at Jason for. We have also taken to using a VOG to reprimand him if he does growl. This approach seems to be having some positive results.

 

Rufus growled at Jason once on the day of the class and then went four days before he growled at Jason again. It's now been eight days and counting since that growl and Rufus has been very sweet. He's becoming more playful with Jason and is following him around often when Jason gets up. Rufus also seems to look at Jason for more petting when Jason stops. We take these all to be good signs. Of course, we both think there may be more growls in the future. Rome wasn't built in a day. But we do think it looks like we're making strides in the right direction, which is wonderful, because most of the time Rufus is a very sweet boy. Just thought I'd share a positive update. Now hopefully I won't have jinxed us.

 

 

Update 2/17: So we've been doing all the things talked about here. Jason's been feeding Rufus exclusively and giving him treats. The growls that make no sense (to us) have continued but gotten fewer and further between. There's never been a problem that we could explain, like Jason bothering him while eating, encroaching on his bed, etc, etc. Rufus and Jason have spent a lot of time playing together and that always goes great. They play fetch and Rufus always drops the ball or lets Jason have it with zero issue. Rufus has basically been really, really good. Until now.

 

What just happened was this. Jason had eaten lunch on the couch and afterwards Rufus came over wanting to lick the plate so Jason let him. After Rufus was done Jason was petting him and the next thing we knew Rufus jumped up and snapped at Jason, just missing his cheek. No warning. Now Jason feels like he's done trying because he feels it's only a matter of time before Rufus actually bites. We thought maybe Rufus was afraid of Jason due to a bad association with someone who Jason reminded Rufus of, but I don't see how Jason can come across any less threatening than he has .

 

I know Jason's feelings are hurt and I don't blame him for not wanting to get bitten. We were thinking about enrolling Rufus in obedience class and having Jason do most of the work with him, but now I don't know. He's still a foster but we were planning on signing papers for him, but now I don't know if it's a good idea. Makes me sad, but obviously something has to change to make this a working situation.

 

Any new thoughts? Any at all?

--------------------------

 

One of the new guys, Rufus, has been doing something with DH that's really puzzling and well, Jason's a sensitive guy so his feelings are getting hurt. Here's an example: this morning Jason was sitting on the floor, minding his own business, and Rufus approached him all waggy, wanting to be petted. Jason petted him for few minutes, gave him some ear rubs, tummy rubs, etc, all while Rufus was standing. Rufus went away and came back for more, tail wagging all the while. Then Rufus put bent his head down and put his face against Jason's face and growled. Jason reprimanded Rufus and Rufus went away.

 

This has happened a few times and neither of us can figure out what the glitch is (the other times was basically the same scenario except that Rufus didn't actually put his face against Jason's the other times). This definitely sounds like a low growl but there's NOTHING that either of us can see that Jason is doing that should elicit a growl. Now Jason is convinced Rufus just doesn't like him. It is so odd. None of our Greys has ever acted like this.

 

Is there any chance this sound that is so much like a growl could actually mean something else? Any thoughts on what's going on?

Edited March 11, 2010 by Tracey

[dante2zoe]

When rubbing their ears, two of mine make this growly- type noise, but they are in heaven, not angry. Could it be that?

[ZoomDoggy]

When rubbing their ears, two of mine make this growly- type noise, but they are in heaven, not angry. Could it be that?

 

Both my girls make low deep groaning noises when their ears are rubbed too. Could be mistaken for a growl...?

[Tracey]

We call that sound groanies. This definitely does not sound like ear groanies. It sounds like a growl. But his body language does not match a growl. That's what's so odd. We don't know how to react to it.

[Guest AGirlNamedMe]

Bella makes a low growly sound when Hef (my SO) rubs her ears. The first time it happened, I looked over at Hef and he was grinning like a schoolgirl - thrilled that he made Bella feel so yummy.

[Guest elisemg]

My sweet gentle boy does that. I was alarmed when I first heard it but there is nothing negative about it. It just seems to be what he does. His body motions don't match the growl. He does it often when he stretches, front legs down. It just seems to be his voice!

[greyhead]

Spencer does this too and it's not a growl. Our adoption counselor told us it's one of the greyhound vocalizations and it corresponds to a purr. (Like rooing and chattering, not all greyhounds do it.)

 

But he has learned not to do it when meeting a new dog!

 

I know it's disconcerting. If he ever does do a real growl, you'll hear the difference. But it's a subtle one. Let the body language be your guide, I'd say.

Edited February 3, 2010 by greyhead

[grey14me]

Could he want him to play with him? With all the tail waggy stuff, that's what it kind of sounds like to me. You know how some greyhounds will snap their teeth at you (Bailey used to do it to me all the time) to get you to play with them or pay attention to them, maybe this is his way of doing that?

[Batmom]

Guess you would want to exercise caution until you figure out what it is ... but ... Batman used to purr. Not the same sound as eargasm groans . Really a lot like a low continuous growly noise -- like a cat purring 2 octaves lower. He also hummed (kinda like a purr, too, but add vocal cords).

[TheFullHouse]

Since Jason is sitting on the floor and basically eye level with Rufus, I'd guess Rufus is trying to entice Jason to play with him. Valentino does this with us and if we look up and say "gonna get you Valley" he'll play bow and growl and the games are on.

[Magdalyn58]

Daisy and Teddy both make that very low, growly type of sound, when it seems that there is nothing that should be making them growl. At first, it kind of scared us. Teddy does it more than Daisy and his voice is a lot lower (he's a huge boy). Their body language at the time does not appear to be tense or angry.

 

Daisy also does this weird thing when she is half asleep. She'll make a quick bark sound as if she's trying to warn something away from her. This can happen even if if no one is in the room with her. The first few times, I was on the sofa with her watching TV and we weren't even touching. When she does it and I call her name, she looks at me as if she has no idea she made the sound. My guess is that it has something to do with being half asleep and worried that someone/something is threatening her.

 

They sure are curious beings, but so darned cute and lovable.

[Remolacha]

Fletcher makes many growly sounds . I think you have to look at his body language and expression.

[Guest BlackandBrindle]

He's new so it's obviously harder to tell, but from what you describe I'd say he's just happy and making noise.

 

After more than four years I am very accustomed to Spud's vocalizations. He has a wide range of them. The only time I worry is when I hear the "I'm going to eat your face" death growl. Believe me, you know the difference.

[greysmom]

All dog vocalizations need to be taken in context with the total dog - what's going on around him, his posture and body language, current emotional state, that sort of thing. Some dogs are just more vocal than others and a growl does not necessarily mean a bad thing.

 

Toni and Dude are both vey vocal talkers all the time, while Cash and Copper very rarely make a sound. Toni especially can sound threatening if you're not used to her ways. Tell your SO that it's a good thing!

[Jackandgrey]

It actually sounds like Rufus is quite smitten with his buddy Jason

Edited February 3, 2010 by Jackandgrey

[RobinM]

Is he doing it when there is a lot of head to head or face to face contact? Beau- who is the wimpest most senstive of my guys yet if you get too close face to face with him sometimes he will growl- the get out of my face, please kind of growl.

Edited February 3, 2010 by RobinM

[CaliforniaGreys]

All dog vocalizations need to be taken in context with the total dog - what's going on around him, his posture and body language, current emotional state, that sort of thing. Some dogs are just more vocal than others and a growl does not necessarily mean a bad thing.

 

Ditto

[krissn333]

I'm inclined to think that, given the body language, that this isn't a mean growl. None of my greys make noises like that unless they're groaning from ear rubs, or groaning when they lay down. However, Skimmie makes groany growly noises all the time.

 

Next time he does it, tell Jason to initiate play with him and see if that's what he's trying to do. It may just be a happy noise too

[Guest PiagetsMom]

Could he want him to play with him? With all the tail waggy stuff, that's what it kind of sounds like to me......... to get you to play with them or pay attention to them, maybe this is his way of doing that?

 

This was my first thought. Piaget does it to Mirage when she wants to play, but she's never done it with us. I agree with Batmom though......until you have a better idea you might want to be a little cautious, especially with faces so close together.

[silverfish]

It actually sounds like Rufus is quite smitten with his buddy Jason

 

That's what I was thinking.

 

I agree with Batmom though, exercise caution till you're sure. But yes, a couple of mine have given low, quite rumbly growling sounds when they're really happy - it is like a purr. Except in my experience with greyhounds, it only seems to be on the 'out' breath.

 

They key is, what does his body language and face tell you? Here's a nice scary picture of Renie. She's blissfully happy, getting belly rubs and loving her time with me - but a lot of people wouldn't know it.

 

 

It's an air snap. Look at her eyes. They're soft - open but not staring. Her ears are loose, not at alert, and her whole body posture is saying 'I'm no threat'. But look at the teeth, and if you don't know her, it would be easy to be fearful.

 

Another -

 

 

Again, the eyes are the thing to look at. Quite soft and friendly. Also the mouth is soft at the corners, and she's lifted the front part only away from her teeth. That's a grin, not a snarl.

 

Bottom line is, it takes time to get to know a new dog, but their body language remains fairly constant. If they're fearful, they'll show a fearful body posture and facial expressions. If they're hostile, they'll show it.

 

I'd do what Krissn333 suggested and get Jason to invite play. But ... to be safe, it would be better not to do it while sitting on the floor. If Rufus gets excited and waves his teeth around like Renie used to, Jason could still get hurt, good intentions or not.

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

The groans they make when you rub their ears are known as "Ear-gasms" and are quite growly sounding.

 

I think the other sound you're hearing is asking for more!

[Guest LindsaySF]

Since Jason is sitting on the floor and basically eye level with Rufus, I'd guess Rufus is trying to entice Jason to play with him.

That would be my guess too, assuming his body language is still happy and not tense/uncomfortable. To be on the safe side you can avoid eye-level petting for now if you want.

 

 

Sooner does something similar when he's being petted. If you look into his eyes while your face is close to him his eyes get all wide, his ears perk up, and he growls. Sometimes he even whines, but then he will playbow or wag his tail, so I know he's being playful.

 

He has growled over the couch and stuff, and that growl is different, and his facial expression is different. It's subtle, but when it's not a happy growl his face gets tight, his ears go back, and he looks upset/nervous.

[Guest Snazzy_Chloe]

I'll bet he wants to play. What does he do if Jason does a play bow to him, without staring into his eyes? Or he is bumping Jason and wants more lovin---does not sound aggresssive to me by your description - it sounds like someone is trying to communicate and is getting repremanded in the process. If I was Jason, I would get into a better defensive position when he sees this coming on, by getting out of the sitting position and whirling sideways to get onto hands and feet/or knees with your body sideways or away from the dog so your head is away from his and do a play bow, slapping your hands down on the floor. My dog usually responds to this with a stretch and a play bow saying she is ready for some games and fun time. Until you know, this movement gets you into a more defensive posture, where Jason is not facing the dog at eye level, and he is on the way to standing quickly if necessary

[LBass]

Tracey, what a timely post. I've been trying to frame the same question about Spirit. These very words have come out of my mouth!

 

It sounds like a growl. But his body language does not match a growl. That's what's so odd....don't know how to react to it.

 

Several times over the ~9 months I've had Spirit I've heard him growl--not a groan, not that charming eargasm noise, but a real low throaty growly growl noise. Yet his body language looks happy, peaceful, content, relaxed. He growls while lying on the couch, alone, with no human or animal anywhere near him. He growls while lying in his bed--again with no one anywhere near him to deserve a warning. He recently growled while he was up on my bed. I was standing by the bed petting him (leaning over and loving on him because he always seems to love that) and he growled. I immediately backed off a bit to give him space and he immediately waved his front foot at me trying to catch my hand in his time honored "pleeeeease don't stop!" plea. I was so confused.

 

Reading these responses, perhaps it is a contented vocalization for Spirit. Way to keep your confused human on her toes, Spirit.

 

--Lucy

[Guest Bang_o_rama]

Bang makes a lot of grunts and sighs when happy. The only time I have heard her growl is when I made the mistake of idly stroking her when she was deeply asleep and in mid-dream, with twitches, running-in-place, jerks and yips. She emitted a deep, long sinister grrrrrrrrrrrrrr from way down in her throat. It was unmistakable and scary and I got the hell outta Dodge. A few seconds later she popped her head out from beneath our bed (where she often keeps it at night), looked at me, recognized me and was Bang again.

~D~