Bone Cancer (osteosarcoma) Amputation

[Guest Vinnie]

While this is not the best way to come into the forum, it is the same way we did and we could not have made the decisions we made without all the wonderful support here on GT - so welcome.

 

Now comes the tough part - as with everyone else, only you know your houndie best and can make the decision as to what will work with her. Many here have gone the amp & chemo route and had a wonderful life afterwards and then there are those like us ... well, let me explain:

 

Our forever puppy, Angel Vinnie was 11 months when diagnosed with osteo in his right front leg (wrist area) - we came on here and received so much support and so many options that helped us choose the path that we thought best - amputation and chemo. We found a brilliant vet in our area who did the amputation and we were already with the best oncologist and center in our area for the rest of his treatments that we knew we were in good hands. Vinnie came back from the amputation like a champ - he was flying around on 3 legs and enjoying every minute of his life. We went through the first 2 chemos well - no issues, didn't even lose his appetite. These were done every 3 weeks and we were alternating a chemo drug (part of which we got free from an osteo study at OSU) for the best results - unfortunately before his 3rd chemo I was noticing a few things that I was not comfortable with and asked for another xray before his 3rd treatment was to be given. When he came out of xray we were told he would not benefit from the chemo any longer as his right lung had filled and his left lung was already partially filled with a very aggressive form of osteo - we were told by our oncologist that it was the most aggresive that she had ever seen and in the youngest patient she had ever seen or heard about. We kept our sweet Angel on meds and took him home to say goodbye to our family and friends. We were so frightened that his remaining front leg was going to snap and he was having trouble breathing - yet still the happiest pup you had ever seen. We released him to wait for us at the Rainbow Bridge on his 14 month birthday.

 

So even though many people here have been able to treat and extend their houndies life and enjoyed quality, pain free time, ours was not to be - 3 months - but I would not have traded those 3 months for the world. It was right for him and us at that time. Would I do it again - it would depend on the houndie in question - age and health are a biggie - but also knowing if they can handle restrictions and most of all - vet visits. Our Angel loved going to the vets - his sister, our little princess Gracie absolutely hates going to the vets (we have to give her an anti-anxiety pill before we go and even that doesn't make it completely comfortable for her) - so if it were her, we may not choose that route. Our new baby, Gus - he loves the vet also, so for him we probably would.

 

No matter what choice you go with, you have to follow your heart. If you feel that she is well enough otherwise and can handle the vets visits and you can handle the first 2-3 weeks after amputation, than your answer would most likely be yes - if not, make sure you have the right amount of pain meds for her so she does not get stressed (and you can definitely see it and hear it if they are hurting), and keep her comfortable and enjoy her. Lots of touch feely things to do with her (but try not to cry in front of her and keep up your happy voice for her) and create lots of memories - as these are what will help you make it through. And as someone else mentioned - keep her from jumping or sliding around and avoid stairs if possible. If you do go the amputation, please let us know as many of us here can help you prepare for that as well. If you would like to reach me and you cannot pm yet, just let us know and we will post our email.

 

No matter what your decision, remember that you are making the right choice for her and you and all of us here will support you. Sending hugs and gentle scritches.

Edited June 14, 2008 by Vinnie

[Neighsayer]

Hugs!

[MerlinsMum]

Sending more hugs and strength for the decision you need to make. :grouphug

 

Monstermomma: I'm sorry for your loss of Diego.

[Guest Designsmom]

Thank you all for your support. I am pretty sure we have decided. When I decide no surgery, I feel sick to my stomach and I can't stop crying. When I decide surgery, I feel sick to my stomach but I feel better. Is that following your heart? Is my heart telling me to amputate? Here is what I am thinking. If we choose to amputate, she will be in pain for 3-5 days. If I don't amputate, she will be in pain the rest of her life. I would rather not worry about her breaking the leg by slipping on the floor or squatting to pee. I think she deserves a chance. If it is 3 months, 6 months, 1 year until she dies, so be it. I will probably not do chemo but will figure that out later. We will take her in Monday, and they will put a patch on her for pain. Tuesday will be the surgery. I will keep you all posted as to her progress. Thanks so much for listening.

[Neighsayer]

Good luck!

[Guest HeatherDemps]

Sorry you are facing this.....

 

We found out right before Christmas that our grey likely had osteosarcoma. His 12th birthday was in March, so the age factor was playing a huge role in our decision. The oncologists we worked with told us that age is not a disease and to not really factor it into our decision. Dempsey had been healthy and had had no significant health problems before this. His front right leg was amputated on January 18th. It was a terrible decision to have to make but I felt that there was no alternative for him. The first week was hell, the second week was too, but it was better than the first and things quickly improved from there. He did 5 chemo treatments starting 2 weeks after the surgery. I know we absolutely made the best decision for our boy and I have no regrets.

 

If you decide to pursue amputation, I would have an actual surgeon do it. You may also want to see what s/he does to prevent the excessive bleeding/bruising. Dempsey's surger was done at U of I in Champaign, IL and I know they had some protocol they followed for that. Dr. Coutu at OSU is also a wonderful resource on osteo. Best wishes to you in making your decision.

 

Heather

 

Just saw this part after I posted....

 

You'll definitely want to manage the pain after the surgery. We used a pain patch and tramadol. My grey had his surgery on a Wednesday afternoon and was in ICU until Saturday morning. While in ICU, he was on IV pain meds and they put the pain patch on his 24 hours before sending him home. He was on tramadol for around a week and a half or so. Gets lots of rest while you can. My regular vet advised us that we would have a point after the surgery where we'd really wonder if we did the right thing and second guess yourself. Know that this might happen, but they will recover at an amazing rate and surprise the heck out of you. Prepare yourself for when you first see her- I found it helpful to look at pictures of other hounds on here who had been through it. I know I have lots posted on here somewhere. Definitely do check out Circle of Grey as others have mentioned- wonderful additional resource.

 

Thank you all for your support. I am pretty sure we have decided. When I decide no surgery, I feel sick to my stomach and I can't stop crying. When I decide surgery, I feel sick to my stomach but I feel better. Is that following your heart? Is my heart telling me to amputate? Here is what I am thinking. If we choose to amputate, she will be in pain for 3-5 days. If I don't amputate, she will be in pain the rest of her life. I would rather not worry about her breaking the leg by slipping on the floor or squatting to pee. I think she deserves a chance. If it is 3 months, 6 months, 1 year until she dies, so be it. I will probably not do chemo but will figure that out later. We will take her in Monday, and they will put a patch on her for pain. Tuesday will be the surgery. I will keep you all posted as to her progress. Thanks so much for listening.

[Guest IrskasMom]

 

 

Some comforting Hugs and Prayers for Design and You

[Guest greydogluvr]

Best of luck. It sounds like you ARE following your heart. Hugs to Design.

Edited June 14, 2008 by greydogluvr

[dmdsmoxie]

Whatever your decision is, it will be the right one for Design.

 

Dogs, and animals in general, live in the now. They handle adversity way better than humans. She will play the hand that is dealt her and not complain.

 

I've posted these videos before, but, since you haven't seen them, here they are again.

 

 

 

Dick

Edited June 14, 2008 by dmdsmoxie

[Guest charmsmom]

If the cancer has not spread, and she's still acting young and spunky, I would do it in a heartbeat!

[Guest Vinnie]

We will keep you in our thoughts and prayers. And we definitely agree with heatherdemps - the first couple of weeks are very hard and you will question yourself as to whether you did the right thing - but if it means no pain in the leg, to me it was worth it.

 

We got wonderful advice from others here that were very helpful - things like put a t-shirt over her to help prevent her from going after the bandages, especially the first couple of weeks (it also helps if there is a little leekage). Be prepared for what she will look like - there is usually an area that will gather a lot of blood and fluid until it is absorbed back in - don't panic, it is normal. My big thing was watching our sweet Vinnie trying to get up or down the first couple of days - it was really hard for me not to run over to try to pick him up or gently lay him down each time - I kept reminding myself that he has to do this in order to work through it - I must say, he got through that part much better than I ever would have - and then he would lay on the side that was amputated more often than not - this is their way of keeping the area safe and it did not bother him - me, I couldn't understand how he could lay on that area, especially so soon after surgery. He stayed one overnight at our oncology center after the surgery then he came home. We had him on 2 meds for pain control and he was quickly weaned off of those - remember he was a puppy though so Design may need a little more pain control.

 

We slept on the floor/couch with him the first couple of weeks so he would not be tempted to jump. And as we share our office space with his uncle, when we let them near each other the first few weeks, it was always with Vinnie on leash - this helped remind him that he could not run & play. Meds & the anesthesia will make her stool soft so you may want to add some sweet potatoes or mashed to help. And definitely make sure the doctor doing the surgery is familiar with a greys reaction to anesthesia - it is not the same as other dogs. You may want to look into a sling to help stabilize her walking and potty stops at first and if you have stairs you may want to think about a ramp. Vinnie was fairly light so we picked him up at first until he got a little stronger. It did not take long before he was rough playing and running around the yard like a crazy boy again.

 

I will go back and see if I can find some amp photos - before, during and after and will post for you to see. I am sure that there are others here with photos like that - seeing these will help you to be strong for your sweet girl. Give her lots of treats this weekend and just cuddle - good for both of you.

[CaliforniaGreys]

My heart is breaking as I'm reading through this thread, and I'm questioning myself as to what would I do. It scares me that I can't answer that. But you're hearing from other people who have been through this and I would think that's a big help. The agony you're going through trying to make this decision speaks to the fact that you will do what's best for Design.And the posters here telling you that if you opt for surgery, you will start questioning if you did the right thing because of how tough it'll be in the first few weeks. It's good that you will be prepared for that to happen and know...it's normal. All I can offer you is our prayers, and we will keep Design in our prayers.

[Jackandgrey]

The decision you make will be right one. I know it's hard.

[Guest KRKWMU]

I'm so sorry you have to go through this and make these tough decisions. Whatever you decide, you have your reasons. Only you know the specific circumstances. We'll be thinking about you and Design.

 

Contact Dr. Couto at OSU personally or have your vet send him an email. The man is amazing and could give you some guidance and recommendations.

[Guest KTsGreytPups]

I've faced this 3 times. Two times I choose to let nature take its course and the last time (just this past March) I choose amputation and chemo. All three times I made the right decision for the dog. My last baby, Chablis, had her surgery on March 17th. She was 6 years old in and perfect health other than the cancer so I choose to do the surgery. She did great. She amazed everyone with her ability to adjust. But sometimes cancer has its own plan. After 3 chemos the cancer spread and I was forced to give up the battle. I lost my girl just a couple of weeks ago. I do not regret my decision one bit. It was the right thing to do for her. She was so loved and had the best couple months.

 

Bottom line . . . do what you believe is right for your dog. There is no right and wrong only what works for you. And love them with all your heart.

[CaliforniaGreys]

I've faced this 3 times. Two times I choose to let nature take its course and the last time (just this past March) I choose amputation and chemo. All three times I made the right decision for the dog. My last baby, Chablis, had her surgery on March 17th. She was 6 years old in and perfect health other than the cancer so I choose to do the surgery. She did great. She amazed everyone with her ability to adjust. But sometimes cancer has its own plan. After 3 chemos the cancer spread and I was forced to give up the battle. I lost my girl just a couple of weeks ago. I do not regret my decision one bit. It was the right thing to do for her. She was so loved and had the best couple months.

 

Bottom line . . . do what you believe is right for your dog. There is no right and wrong only what works for you. And love them with all your heart.

Katie,I am so so sorry about Chablis

Edited June 15, 2008 by cbudshome

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

I've had 2 diagnosed with Osteo. Morgan was 10.5. He started limping on a Friday night and Sunday morning his front leg broke when he landed at the base of the stairs. We amputated and he had 4 rounds of carboplatin. That was 29 months ago and we still have the old man. 10 months after Morgan was diagnosed, our 8 year old Alex was too. For him, it was his rear leg. We amputated and his protocol was alternating adriamycin and carboplatin. We discovered he had lung mets after the 3rd chemo and had to let him go a few weeks later. It doesn't sound like your Vet is a specialist. I strongly encourage you to talk to a Vet. Oncologist. The median life expectancy we were quoted:

- without amputation, 2 months

- ampuation alone, 5 months

- amputation with chemo, 12-14 months

What would I choose if faced with the decision again? I don't honestly know. Morgan's was definitely worth it and Alex was definitely not.

One thing regarding age: I've read that osteo. tends to be more aggressive in younger dogs.

[Guest gryhndmom]

I'm sorry to hear of your Design's Osteo. I lost my CindiSue to Osteo 3 years ago. She was 8 at the time of her diagnosis. Like many have said, amputation is no gaurantee and you will probably want to do chemo in addition. You defintely want to seek the advise of a Veterinary Oncologist. Radiation therapy may be an option too if you choose not to amputate. With my CindiSue I did not amputate but I did get her Radiation therapy which does not shrink the cancer but it does take away the pain, or so it seemed. My CindiSue stopped limping after only 1 or 2 treatments. We did 4 Radiation treatments ($500 each) for the pain and then we did chemo both Adriamycin (sp) and Carboplatin. She tolerated the chemo fairly well. However, on the day of her last treatment we found despite our efforts the cancer had spread to her lungs. So we just kept her comfortable and a few weeks later I had to let her go. I think we should have started the chemo sooner and then maybe we could have kept it at bay. I only gained 5 more months with her but for the most part she was happy and relatively pain free thanks to the radiation. I often wonder if things would have been different had I amputated but at the time the oncologist I saw thought that we had caught it early enough that radiation and chemo would be enough to gain us a year or two. So it just goes to show you that every case is different. All I can say is love your baby with all your heart and do what you feel is best for the two of you. I'll keep you both in thoughts and prayers.

[feemandvm]

Don't have time to read all the replies so will just throw in my $0.02.

 

I diagnosed my own 9 year old Greyhound with osteosarcoma in 2006. He also had an old fractured central tarsal bone in his non-cancerous back leg. He had a very outgoing personality and we thought he could handle the trips to the office for follow-up chemo so we went with surgery. He lived 12 months and 2 days. The overwhelming majority of that time was of high quality. The first 10-14 days after surgery there was a big adjustment and the last week he developed some painful nodules from the cancer and I'd say his quality of life deteriorated forcing us to pursue euthanasia. So would I "put a dog through that" again? If I felt that he/she had the personality for it? Absolutely! Without surgery I only would have had him for another 4 weeks max and with surgery I got 12 months. Easy decision for me.

 

Again... amputation is nto the right decision for every Greyhound and expense is a factor.

 

Reasons not to pursue amputation/chemo:

 

1. Other orthopedic issues in other legs that may not allow the dog to do well on 3 legs.

 

2. Other significant diseases already diagnosed which will already shorten teh dogs life significantly.

 

3. Cannot afford to pursue aggressive treatment.

 

4. Dog does not have the personality type that would ammend itself to regular trips to teh vet for chemo, labwork, etc.

 

 

One reason I don't think is a good reason not to pursue aggressive treatment is one I hear/read all the time. "I wouldn't want to put them through it". Is the surgery invassive and is there a recovery period? Absolutely. However, the majority of dogs do REALLY well with surgery. Dr. Couto at OSU always says dogs are born with 3 legs and a spare. Chemotherapy only results in significant side effects in about 20% of dogs... and those side effects can typically be managed with oral/injectable medications or reductions in chemotherapy drugs.

 

So is surgery right for you? Only you can answer that question for your Greyhound. Should you not consider it due to his age? IMHO it would be a mistake to do so. There is nothing in the world that I would take to give back that last year with Sky.

 

 

[Bevd]

Bill

[Guest pbailey1]

I'm sorry you're going through this - cancer sucks!

 

I've decided that if I ever have to face this decision I will not opt for amp. Secret is too skittish and isn't particularly fond of the vet. I'd rather let her go a little too soon than a little too late, which I know will be much harder on my family than on her. I just hope that's a decision I never have to face.

[patricia]

Sending my prayers for you and your sweet baby. PLEASE contact Dr. Couto and join Circle of Grey.

[Saffron]

I'm so sorry. This diagnosis is everyone's nightmare.

 

As other posts have said, I think this is a decision that only you can make, because you know your hound best. It is a case by case decision. Some greys can cope with amputation and chemo whatever the age, but some might not do so well. For me, I'd weigh quality of life.

 

I know you will weigh the options and make the right decision for your grey. Your love shines in your posts.

 

Gillian

 

 

[Greytlady94]

I didn't see Dr. Couto's contact info in any of the posts although he was mentioned by several people. Definitely contact him, he will consult with you and your vet at no charge. He is the expert.

C. Guillermo Couto DVM

couto.1@osu.edu e-mail or greyosu@osu.edu

614 292-3551 phone

614 292-6464 fax

 

Time is very important at this stage, but making sure the vet is qualified is most important. It sounds like you may have some doubts about the vet.

By all means if you decide on the surgery be certain that the vet has done this before and is qualified to take on this surgery and treatment. Also keep in mind that the experts like Dr. Couto do recommend amputation followed by chemo for best results.

 

I have had one greyhound with osteo. Charlie was only six, and his was not a case that surgery would have helped. We had to let him go within two weeks from diagnosis. My remailing greyhounds are 10, 10, and almost 9. Only you can make the decision for Design. You know her and how well she tolerates change, and how she handles being at the vet hospital. Whatever decision you make for Design will be the right decision for her. No one knows her better, no one loves her more. Dogs are so blessed that they do not know about tomorrow, they only know what is happening and how they are feeling in the here and now. My prayers are with you and Design.

[Guest JohnnyBell]

Only you can make the decision and that will be the right one.

 

I have been through this just last year. Lungs were clear, so I opt to amputate with 5 doses of chemo. My Sophie made it only 7 months before it was in her lungs. I don't think I'd amputate again for osteo. That's just my honest opion. Lots of luck to you.