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Saffron

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  1. I would be pissed too and hope that your friend brings it to the attention of the prescribing vet. It definitely looks like a misplaced decimal point! I guess the poor dog can make a full recovery from Bomide toxicity but I'd be really angry with the vet. An acknowledgement and apology is the least the vet can offer. scullysmum: Yes, you are quite right, Kbr does cause psychosis in humans but rarely in dogs. When I did a search I only found a couple of footnotes about Kbr psychosis in dogs on what I think of as the usual Canine-Epi support websites. Also, one article on a poodle site and one on a Westie site, IIRC. Even veterinary articles say that only a handful of dogs go psychotic on Kbr. Trust Caesar, he always likes to be different! I'd use certainly use Kbr again on other seizure dogs, but I hope Caesar's experience now comes up on searches. I would have pressured to take him off it faster had I known, and I don't want other people and dogs to go through what we did.
  2. I hope it is not a brain tumor and scans and spinal taps are $$$$. With that big of a loading dose I'm thinking its probably bromism too. I just wanted to add -- Caesar never had ataxia when on Kbr. I'm sure other people will chime in here soon but it might be a good idea to ask this question on on the Yahoo or Facebook canine epi groups or on the EPIL-K9 list.
  3. I am so not a vet, but that sounds like a massive overdose not a loading dose. I thought bromism only happened with longterm use as it builds up in the system! I hope the dog recovers well because that is awful! Looking at Caesar's log now: 75 lbs and started on 2 ml 2x a day of 250 mg/ml solution. Within a week he started to lose weight and started to get agitated. My vet consulted with the neurologist by phone, and we lowered the dose to 1.75 ml BID, next week and then to 1.5 ml. BID the following week. He got worse not better, but both my vet and the neuro thought he'd improve as he got used to it - and perhaps the neuro thought I was exaggerating the symptoms. I wasn't and my regular vet knew that. He was on it for just over 3 weeks before we could get an appt. with the neurologist, brain scan etc. and took him off it. But as I said, Caesar gets weird reactions to many drugs. Valium makes him hyper as well.
  4. What are the major issues your friend's dog is having? We had Caesar on Kbr liquid for only a few weeks and the poor guy gradually went psychotic. Whining, pacing, barking at nothing, not sleeping, etc. His anxiety (and he is always a little anxious) went through the roof! The longer he was on it the worse it became and we were afraid he had a brain tumor! It turns out that this is a rare side effect of Kbr and he is hypersensitive to a lot of drugs. As soon as we took him off it (substituting Keppra, not cold turkey) he was miraculously better. I wrote about it here: http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/97439-greyhound-epilepsy-study/page-6 Sorry, I can't remember the exact dosage of Kbr he was on and don't have his log with me. He did not have a loading dose, and I'm sure the dose was standard for his weight.
  5. Ok, can I third or fourth the recommendation to relax! You are doing all the right things and Thyme will do well, I'm sure. You have the meds needed. You know what you have to do --I have my emergency protocol written out and on my fridge because I'm afraid of panicking in the moment too. Give yourself a nice break and time to absorb all this information. It is really frightening, at first, I know. Dealing with an epi-dog isn't easy But the truth is that the majority of epi-dogs with conscientious and observant owners live for a long time with very good quality of life! The early days are the worst because you are not sure what you are dealing with, but it does get better.
  6. Another quick thought on the MRI and Spinal Tap -- they have to be done under general anesthesia. Just another thing to consider when you are weighing risks versus benefits.
  7. Glad you are back and have the meds and cluster-buster. 1. We've not used Zonisamide so I'll leave others to answer that. 2. MRI/Spinal tap? I'm going to say -- probably not really necessary yet and up to you. I'd see if the meds work first. Note: We did do both with Caesar, but that was because we really needed to rule out a brain tumor due to behavioral changes when we put him on Potassium Bromide. Again, Caesar is a special snowflake who has rare side-effects with many drugs. 3. No. Eyes are fixed and staring. The neuro is probably asking about nystagmus (eyes darting) to consider causes other than idiopathic epilepsy -- vestibular disease, head trauma, cancer (inner ear) or brain tumors, encephalitis, hypothyroidism and other things.
  8. What Mary Jane said. I was the "someone else" that suggested giving her space when having seizures. I thought I'd made it clear that I was dealing with a grey whose Grand Mal seizures are so violent that he could clamp his jaws down on my hands and hurt me when he is totally out of it. And a grey that is so scared by seizures that he gets aggressive in the post-ictal phase. These reactions are not that common, but people should be aware of the risks. Perhaps my writing skills didn't make it clear that those were extreme precautions. Sorry. In lay-terms, a grand mal (tonic-clonic) seizure basically send the whole body into massive spasms with huge muscular activity that causes the body to over-heat. Continuous seizures so violent can be fatal and constitute a medical emergency. In the video you posted, Denise, I'd call that "focal" or petit mal, not Grand Mal But focal seizures can turn into Grand Mal. That is why Mary Jane is cautioning you. These seizures are coming so closely together that I'm fairly sure that your neurologist will recommend meds immediately. Please talk to the neuro about pros and cons of each med. FYI: A couple of questions Caesar's neurologist asked to be prepared for, and that I wasn't expecting, were: how old is your house? and have you done any renovations recently? Please keep us posted on what is happening with Thyme.
  9. I think you will be inundated soon with more recommendations. There are a lot of greyhound-savvy vets in Boston and it is usually a good idea to get a vet close to you. It is a bit far from downtown Boston, but Dr. Poling at Holliston Animal Hospital 13 Exchange Street, Holliston, MA is a real greyhound expert and also the Greyhound Friends vet. He has been very generous in being available for consulting with my vet over the years (my dogs tend to present with weird problems!). He also treated Olly for a badly broken leg before I adopted him, and probably saved the leg. I adopted Olly when he was still in a splint and we had to go to Holliston for bandage changes several times. I was very impressed with Dr Poling and his office staff. .
  10. Oh no! Not something wrong with the beautiful Star. I don't think I can help much, but wanted to say that. Knowing you, you've already looked for the usual stuff and checked his paw for injury or a burgeoning corn and his leg for any heat, swelling and soreness. I hope he has just twisted something that stiffens up overnight and it resolves very quickly. Otherwise, we do share an excellent vet . . .
  11. This sounds like a possible "focal" or partial seizure (affecting only part of the brain) to me, but it is hard to tell as a lay person on the other side of the computer. It really needs to be described to your vet, and I would definitely get on the list for a neurology consult as soon as possible. You can always cancel it if this resolves itself. A focal seizure can last for a minute or two and the dog never obviously loses consciousness. They sometimes progress to tonic-clonic (grand mal) but not always. Thyme may be less aware of you than you think during a focal seizure. A few things: Try to video episodes like this if you can. It will be very useful to your vet or neurologist. Also, if you search "focal" or "partial" seizures in dogs on Youtube quite a few videos come up that show the wide variations in what they can look like. Usually people have made these videos at the request of their vets. Be cautious when holding a seizing dog because you can get hurt. Keep your hands away from her mouth in case her jaws snap shut, and be aware that you can get badly scratched by thrashing paws. It is human nature to try to hold the dog and comfort it because a seizure is distressing to watch, but the dog is not in pain during the seizure -- she's totally unconscious. You should immediately look at the time, make sure she is in a safe place on the floor away from furniture and electrical cords, put something under her head and stand back, if at all possible. Observing, filming and timing is very important. I also need to grab our "OMG Kit" - the cluster-buster Mary Jane is talking about. I find it helpful to talk calmly throughout the seizure. I usually tell Caesar that everything will be OK soon, talk loving nonsense, and review our "seizure protocol" and the directions to the E-vet aloud in case he clusters. It calms me down and seems to be reassuring to Caesar as he recovers consciousness. As I said in the other thread, I have to remain completely still and at a safe distance from Caesar until about 30 minutes after the seizure, but that is obviously not always necessary. I hope this helps.
  12. That is really interesting. I had one dog (JRT) who did want to attack a seizing dog but it seemed almost a fear reaction for her. It was really important to keep those two separated. If you are a dog, it must be shocking to see your buddy thrashing around, looking different and probably smelling very different from usual. One other thing worth mentioning for those who have more than one dog -- I suspect that Olly may be learning to predict Caesar's seizures. He and Caesar often share a dog bed and snuggle together happily, but I'm beginning to notice that Olly seems to keep his distance from Caesar for about 6 hours before a seizure. I'm not certain yet that this is a reliable predictor but it is a definite possibility. Olly is a wise Galgo with a well honed survival instinct.
  13. Thanks, Liz. It was so nice to see you at the last GAS Reunion! I just noticed from your signature that you lost sweet Wink in September and read her thread in Remembrance. I am so very sorry. Wink was such a lovely girl and you gave her a wonderful life.
  14. Other. I find it rather nonsensical. There is really no such thing as "dog sociology" although the term has been (mis)used by the "Human needs to be Alpha Dog because dogs are descended from wolves" aficionados. Those theories have now been fairly thoroughly debunked as it is now accepted that the original research on wolves was flawed. And domesticated dogs are not the same as wolves anyway. Dogs (greyhound or not) do not perceive children as dogs. Dogs are not stupid and can tell the difference. Their behavior towards small humans will vary according to their socialization and experience, and the behavior of small humans with said dogs. This phrase was used by (but possibly did not originate with) a Greyhound Adoption Agency in materials for training volunteers ages and ages ago. The idea was to be very cautious when adopting out greyhounds to families with small children and to warn potential adopters to use appropriate care supervising greyhounds (or any other dog) in interactions with small children. The training materials may have been revised since 1995. I hope so.
  15. Thanks everyone for the reassurances. Don't we all wish that dogs could talk? They can also be so stoic that we have to anticipate the possibility of pain and medicate -- but be careful not to overmedicate them either. We are very lucky in that we have an excellent vet who is working with us on Pilgrim's pain control. Pilgrim is a lucky girl.
  16. Stool sample to vet ASAP to rule out giardia. I don't wait around when poop is liquid. I also don't hesitate to do a check for suspected giardia. It is very nasty and can be asymptomatic for ages before you get to the liquid stinky poop stage. Also, it is highly contagious and humans can pick it up easily too.
  17. Thanks to you both! I guess the take home message is don't assume that "Elvis legs" aren't painful! I feel bad for Pilgrim because I think I could have done a better job with pain control earlier. I was lulled into thinking she wasn't hurting because I had another grey with "Elvis legs" that were caused by painless idiopathic neuropathy (he did have other symptoms too, however). Pilgrim's vet and I were both stunned by the hip dysplasia in the X-ray. Greyhounds just don't have hip dysplasia!
  18. A cautionary tale: At 9, Pilgrim started to have slightly shaky rear legs. Should I be concerned? Is it a big deal? I've seen many older greys with "Elvis" legs. Otherwise, she checked out fine at the vet. At 10, the shaking got worse. She started to lag behind and not be keen on longer walks. Was it worse on her right side? Hard to tell. Vet consult (when she annoyingly did not shake at all!) Pilgrim sees the vet at least 2X a year because she is a senior now. No signs of lumbosacral problems. Arthritis in her spine? She has a rather messed up spine (lost the tips of 2 vertebrae during her nerve sheath tumor scar revision when she was 4). She still runs and twirls in the yard. At 10.5, shaking is even worse. If she stands for any extended period it starts. She is a Therapy Dog and her "clients" are worried about the shaking. So am I. Vet and I begin pain control. It gets better and then declines again. Still running and twirling, but for such a short time. At 11, Pilgrim semi-retires as a Therapy Dog. She no longer dives joyfully into her Therapy Dog bandanna when it appears. She is no longer loving it, so it is time to retire. We can't do 30 minute visits any more at facilities and TD visiting should be joyful and happy. We still do occasional individual visits when she doesn't have to stand for long. She needs Tramadol for those. And we do a hip and spine X-ray. I wish I'd done it earlier. Guess what? Unilateral hip dysplasia of her right hip + arthritis. The X-rays are clear even to me as a lay person! Vet speculates that this is due to an injury in puppy-hood, not congenital. Pilgrim never raced. She was a "washout" pup direct to the adoption kennel from the farm. Pilgrim is now on better pain control. She does what she wants, has short walks rather than being asked to keep up with the younger boys, and still twirls and runs in the yard for a couple of minutes. I let her control when she wants to twirl and run rather than force her on long walks.
  19. What Mary Jane said! Sorry to hear about Thyme. Seizures can be very frightening. Has her vet decided to put her on meds? Remember, some dogs have one episode and never have another seizure. Caesar is my third seizure dog and, in many ways, the most complicated. I put his story on the Epilepsy Study thread post#115 http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/97439-greyhound-epilepsy-study/page-6 and probably what I write below may not make sense unless you read that post. Each seizure dog I've had has been different. You have to keep a log of all seizures, all meds, and try to watch for potential triggers (you may never identify one.) To answer your questions: 1. Yes some dogs have upset tummies after seizures. I also give a spoonful of vanilla ice-cream to Caesar after a tonic-clonic (grand mal). He is very disorientated for approx. half an hour after a seizure. When he has a drink and comes to me for his ice-cream I know he is over the dangerous stage. (Note: only a handful of dogs have a dangerous post-ictal stage.) 2. I feed Natural Balance Limited Ingredients kibble and it doesn't seem to be a problem. With any commercial food it is a good idea to check the ingredients and be sure log if a seizure coincides with a change of food. It is also worth calling the manufacturer to see whether there has been a recent change in the content. 3. Yes, the dogs are separated when we are not able to supervise. I have to crate Caesar, which is not ideal. Unfortunately, if he were not crated he might try to jump through windows in the post-ictal phase. He tries to run from any movement and will bite anything or anyone in his way. The other two dogs stay well away from him during a seizure and its aftermath, but some dogs will attack. 4. Focal seizures are harder to identify later. Grand Mal -- possible loss of control of bowel and bladder, froth and drool, injuries from getting jammed under a piece of furniture or bashing into things, upset tummy, disorientation, general drowsiness that can last for hours or days . . . It all depends on the individual dog. To add to Mary Jane's cautions on the drugs: vets will usually prescribe Phenobarbital or Potassium Bromide as a first step to control seizures. They are both good and effective drugs that have been used for years. On the other hand, Pheno is very hard on the liver and Caesar could not tolerate Potassium Bromide. He was seriously psychotic on it! We are now using Keppra and have weaned him off the Pheno slowly. Again, it all depends on what works best for the individual dog. And to repeat: Never take a dog off any seizure drug cold turkey! Finally, even if Thyme is put on anti-seizure meds she may still have occasional "break through" seizures. This doesn't mean the meds aren't working, it just happens. There may be no need to increase the meds, or too much risk in increasing the meds. Always consult with your vet/neurologist before increasing or decreasing meds. Good luck. Both my Nell and Murphy lived almost seizure-free for years with an excellent quality of life. It isn't always as complicated as it sounds!
  20. Holding Maya and you in our thoughts. I wish the prognosis was better.
  21. I'm so very sorry that Walter has this dreadful diagnosis. We lost Catwalk to hemangiosarcoma when she was 7. We had very little warning. She only seemed sick for a couple of weeks and, although we were very concerned, her blood work only showed signs of "mild" pancreatitis. We decided to let her go when an ultrasound showed that her spleen and pancreas were destroyed, surgery wasn't an option, she was in pain, and chemo might have only given her a couple of weeks more with massive pain control. Yes, they can seem fine and deteriorate incredibly fast. I'd focus on really watching for signs of pain (dogs can be so stoic we sometimes underestimate their pain) and making sure that Walter gets very good pain control. Other than that, in the time you have left just keep on loving him to pieces, feed him his favorite foods, assess his quality of life every day, and get ready to let him go when he needs to be set free.
  22. Hi Laura, we are also in MA. As you can see there are any number of places to buy beautiful coats online! If you want to fit your grey personally with a coat, the Greyhound Friends Hopkinton Fall Open House is coming up next weekend -- September 28/9 12:00 - 4:00 pm both days. There is usually a good selection of waterproof coats with fleece linings for sale, and there should be other vendors too selling collars, leashes and lots of other greyhound goodies. It is also a good place to meet other greyhound owners and Greytalkers. I plan to be there with Olly the Galgo and Caesar, but I'm not sure which day we are going yet. No, boots are not a definite necessity. Our dogs have never worn them. If you are walking your grey on city streets it is a good idea to wipe off his paws with a damp cloth when you come in. You want to remove any salt or chemical ice melt stuff so he doesn't lick it off. If your Condo averages 65, you may not need to bother with indoor sweaters or PJs. Of my greys, only Pilgrim wears them indoors regularly. She feels the cold now she is getting older. She also owns a much heavier parka type coat for extremely cold days. We have a collection of fleece coats www.kriskoats.com for chilly but not rainy days that can also be used as indoor sweaters. For the boys, we layer them under a waterproof coat for really cold weather. Now I think about it, my hounds have many more coats than I do! They also have numerous collars. Collecting beautiful greyhound collars is a weakness of mine.
  23. I have it too on 3 sides of my yard. I agree with Finnsliz. Our fence has contained 4 greyhounds over the years and one Galgo, but none of them (including the Galgo) are escape artists. I would not describe it as invisible, especially to the greys, more unobtrusive. We walk new or visiting dogs around the perimeter. After that, they know where it is and slam on the brakes as they approach it. It probably wouldn't hurt if they did hit it. It has a sort of trampoline effect so you bounce off it. Yes, I've tested it personally by running full tilt at it! We used the 7' deer fencing wound around mature trees and supplemented it by posts more frequently than recommended. I'm not sure I'd trust the 5' version with our pups. We also pegged down a good 12" at the bottom and used a lot of extra pegs. We have 3 (instead of the recommended 2) strands of tension wire threaded through the fencing at different levels. We check it after every snow storm, high wind that brings branches down, and ice storm. It was only damaged in one place after the massive ice storm a few years ago. This was a storm that brought down many wooden fences. We have needed to patch the bottom of the fence a few times and we check it frequently. We'd do that with any fence. The cons are that it is not as easy to install as they would like you to believe -- at least in our yard where tree roots and rocks abound. We also did not like the gates. They are quite ugly and went off line too often. We replaced the fencing at the front of our yard with more attractive 6' wooden fencing and more secure gates about 3 years ago. I hope that helps.
  24. Making a dog "sit" to satisfy humans when he doesn't do it naturally and comfortably has always seemed a bit silly to me. Yes, many Greyhounds can sit but in my, limited, experience it seems to be a bit easier for the girls. My 2 girls had natural sits that I just reinforced by clicking. The boys, not so much. I never saw Murphy in anything like a sit. Ever! Murphy certified as a TD without a sit because our TD organization does not require it for greys. Caesar can sort of sit sideways but he's really not comfortable holding it for more than a few seconds. His obedience class trainer was happy with us substituting a down/stay and he aced his obedience class otherwise. As others have said passing the CGC/TD test may be problematic if you get a real stickler for a "sit," but some greyhound-savvy testers are happy with a down/stay these days. As others have said, search out a TD organization that does not require greyhounds to sit. They are definitely some out there.
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