Fce - Fibrocartilaginous Embolism

[Guest GenetJen]

Hey, all. Long-time member, but haven't been on here in years! Writing to see if anyone has had any experience with this, etc.

 

My 11-year old female, Maya, slipped on the tile floor a couple weeks ago and did the splits. She began limping/not putting any weight on her back left leg. I manipulated it and it was clear that it was not causing her pain and was not broken. I assumed she'd pulled something and just kept an eye on it. Several days later, she was still not starting to put weight on it, so I took her to the vet. He immediately recognized it as a neurological (not musculoskeletal) because her toes were curled. I hadn't even considered that. She has minimal feeling in her toes, but does feel "deep pain". He gave her some prednisone and told us to come back in ten days. Ten days later, no improvement. At that point, he told me it was more than likely an FCE - fibrocartilaginous embolism possibly due to the trauma of failing on the tile. The embolism causes obstruction in the spinal blood vessels causing nerve death in the spinal cord. It is not progressive, but it will probably not get better.

 

It so hard to watch my already clumsy, skinny girl having such a hard time getting around and balancing on three legs. In a week, her affected leg is already terribly atrophied due to lack of use. In addition, she's lost weight. She was never a big girl (58 lbs or so), but now she's at 49. I don't see what this would have to do with the FCE. When I told my vet my concern, he just wants me to continue to watch her and see if it stabilizes. Needless to say, she's being spoiled rotten. She's eating plenty and her appetite is normal, she's just sooo skinny! Worries me and breaks my heart. I feel like I'll never see my girl be goofy again; running and dancing around and rooing.

 

He cannot say 100% that it is FCE without sending us hundreds of miles away for diagnostic testing, and I don't think I'm going to do that. If it is FCE, there's nothing they can do about it anyway. And, God forbid, if it's an ascending tumor or anything like that, I'm not putting my old, frail girl through spinal surgery! I feel like I'm failing her, but I don't know what else to do. I guess I'm just going to keep feeding her all she'll eat and try to keep her comfy. She's not in pain, just has trouble getting around and seems a little sad perhaps.

 

I guess I just wanted to hear from anyone who's had similar experiences or any words of advice. It helps to vent to other greyhound people. Thanks.

 

A few FCE links:

http://www.marvistav...s_embolism.html

http://www.petsurger...bolization.html

http://www.veterinar....plx?P=A&A=1663

http://www.michvet.c...ous_embolus.asp

http://robinsonvet.c...agenoussynd.pdf

 

[TheFullHouse]

Wishing your girl the best. She's beautiful.

[Walliered]

Sure hope she gets better really soon. Sending prayers.

[MaryJane]

Have you thought about doing a consult with a neurologist? They might be able to give you some more insight although, they might want to do more extensive testing like an MRI.

[Rickiesmom]

Maya is beautiful, I hope she improves, but meantime I second the idea of a neuro consult.

[Guest Fasave]

A friend of mine had a pup diagnosed with FCE. I believe he was around 10 at the time. He was diagnosed by a neurologist and if I remember correctly, he did make a near complete recovery. Maya is beautiful. I hope she too improves.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Jen Bachelor's agility and obedience greyhound, Katie, suffered an FCE on October 13, 2007. If you go here, you can read about the initial event. Click "Newer post" at the bottom of each entry to read about Katie's treatment and recovery. Hydrotherapy was a miracle-worker for Katie, and Jen has photos.

[tbhounds]

Just want to mention that the weight loss is likely due to the prednisone. Pred melts muscle mass right off of our Ghs.

[GreyPoopon]

I've had two suffer FCEs. One was treated with steroids, the other not. Both had deep pain response. Both recovered some function fairly quickly, and eventually regained all (or almost all) function.

 

One--Cal--lost a lot of weight. The lack of exercise (she also sprained (we think) the front leg on the same side so she was being carried around with a harness for a few days), plus a reduction in her appetite, caused the weight to drop off quickly. She eventually regained it. The other--Cora--did not lose a significant amount of weight even though two legs were affected and a third was still weak from a break/repair; she too was carried around for a few days.

[JJNg]

Most dogs with FCE gradually improve after the initial incident. If it's been 2 weeks with no improvement, I'd be worrying there's something else going on. I'm wondering if she could have a nerve injury from the initial fall. Have any x-rays been taken? Treatment options like acupuncture or physical therapy might help.

[greytpups]

Hope it's something simple and she feels better soon!

[Tallgreydogmom]

Please see this article on our experience with FCE. Cricket had a couple of these events. It just takes time. She passed away at 16 of old age. Article is on page 2.

 

http://www.greyhound...2004_2ndQtr.pdf

 

Hugs

Edited July 5, 2012 by Tallgreydogmom

[brandimom]

No advice here but I have Maya in our prayers and good thoughts! Maya is a beautiful girl and reminds me of my white/brown/brindle Mariah

Edited July 5, 2012 by brandimom

[galgrey]

[greysandmollie]

I went through FCE with my first, Rascal. We did all the tests and pred and some of his functionality came back and some of it didn't. In his case the mobility all came back but he never regained control of his bowel control and the urinary control got weaker with age. After a week and a half at a university hospital my local vet saw him. The first thing he said is that it could get better but I should consider if I could handle him the way he was because it might not get any better. It never really did improve after a few weeks.

 

We did accupuncture and it really did help but whenever we tried to wean down on the visits his control got worse. It never bothered him really and he lived to be 12 1/2 and this happened when he was 7.

[Guest DebSzal]

Gracie, our 10 year old fawn, had a FCE on January 2nd of this year. She wouldn't eat in the morning and didn't seem herself. Within a few hours I could tell her back end was weak and she walked like she was drunk. Our vet sent us to a neurologist who suspected either a FCE or a spinal tumor. She did have reaction in her back legs but was unstable when she walked. We had a MRI done and she stayed overnight. Since the MRI did not show a tumor, the vet diagnosis her condition as a FCE. She did regain most of her back leg strength within a week. She does have some weakness but it doesn't seem to effect her too much. The vet was hesitant to put her on steroids until a specific diagnosis could be done because steroids do not help with a FCE.

 

I hope Maya starts to improve soon. I know it is very hard not to know what is going on or how to help.

[PatricksMom]

We thought Patrick had a FCE, very similar symptoms to yours--the verdict is still out about what he had, but a combination of antibiotics (I forget which, I can check, but ones that cross the blood-brain barrier) and blood thinners turned him around, and he's now recovered 95% of his strength. We did not try steroids, out of fear if it was a TBD it would make matters worse. Without doing an MRI there was no way to be certain of a diagnosis. He also lost about 10 pounds while in the hospital.

 

Does she have ataxia (or issues with the front legs crossing over at all)? That was what convinced them it probably wasn't as simple as a FCE.

[Guest GenetJen]

Thanks for responses and prayers. Sorry I've not been back to respond.

 

Update: Maya has continued to lose weight and this morning I noticed that her left leg (the one we thought was affected by the FCE) was significantly swollen and hot to the touch. We went to the vet immediately and had further tests/imaging done. Her issues are NOT due to an FCE. Maya has advanced bone cancer.

 

In a way, I was not surprised, because I knew she was not acting herself and that something else had to be wrong. She's now down to 45 lbs. I've been hand-feeding her soft food and raw treats. She won't touch her dry kibble or even go to her bowl on her own. She's having incredible difficulty getting around. It obviously heart-breaking to watch.

 

This vet (who it turning out not be my favorite person), pretty much said we'd have to put her to sleep...it's just a question of when. Theoretically, they could amputate the leg and start chemo. He's confident (and logically, I know too) that even if we did remove the leg, the cancer will just show up somewhere else. I refuse to put her through that. She's already weak and frail. I can't imagine her going through surgery and chemotherapy.

 

It's so hard. I don't want to let go, but don't want her to suffer. I'm having a really hard time trying to figure out how to know when it's time. She still eats and tonight we went for a short walk...she was super-excited to go. But then I see her unable to get up from her bed, or fall...and I just don't know. I'm really worried about the swelling. It looks so painful. He gave us tramadol for pain and more prednisone. For now, we're just spoiling her as much as we can.

 

How do you know when it's time to let them go?

[Guest patterpaws]

I'm so sorry. We're dealing with a possible bone cancer situation right now too, so this hits really close to home. Maya is gorgeous and sounds like a super sweet girl.

 

With other animals I've had to "let go" in the past, it has always been a really hard decision. If Maya is still enjoying life, walks, food and treats, those are good signs... Its so hard to see them in pain though, especially when they can't tell you how much it hurts. I wish I knew how to really "know" when its time... sometimes you just know and other times you have to guess as best as you can, while keeping their well-being and quality of life as high as you can for whatever time they have left... I'm so sorry. I hope Maya is able to pull through a while longer without being in too much pain. The more I read about this bone cancer, the more I hate it. Spoil her and give her lots of love, she's a sweetie <3

 

Much love to both of you

[45MPHK9]

I'm so sorry for the awful diagnosis.

 

We kept Bee Wiseman as comfortable as we could with a combination of Tramadol, Deramaxx, and Gabapentin once she was diagnosed with osteo last August. We also wondered how we would know it was time to let her go. Fortunately, it was quite clear when it was time to give her the gift of freeing her from her pain. She left us eight weeks after diagnosis.

 

You will find lots of information about osteo in the osteo thread in this forum.

 

Sending you and Maya a hug across the miles.

[JJNg]

I'd ask your vet about adding gabapentin to her meds for additional pain control. The question of when to let go comes down to quality of life. If you're able to keep her pain to a manageable level, and she's still eating, is happy and enjoying life, then you may not need to make a decision yet.

[GreyPoopon]

I'm so sorry.

 

I've also had two with bone cancer. The first, Cora, was not diagnosed until the bone had disintegrated under the plate that had been used to repair the break 7 months previously. I let her go right away.

 

The second, Tally, lived for a few months after her diagnosis. As soon as she started to limp really badly despite all the pain meds, I said goodbye. Others might have waited longer, but I didn't want to see her suffer as Cora had.

[racindog]

Just want to mention that the weight loss is likely due to the prednisone. Pred melts muscle mass right off of our Ghs.

It sure does. I'll never froget how pitiful it was to watch Aggie waste away a little more each day till there was hardly any dog left. Heartbreaking to watch in someone you love so deeply.

[carronstar]

I am so sorry. Maya is beautiful. I will be holding her, and you, in my thoughts and prayers.

[greyhead]

You and your beautiful Maya are in our thoughts and prayers.