Alternative To Carprofen?

[Time4ANap]

When LaVida had her recent collapse / possible vestibular event, she was on a combination of Gabapentin and Carprofen daily for pain. Our vet prescribed these meds for pain related to arthritis and an old leg injury from her racing days. The leg doesn't slow her down any, but based on the way she holds it we know that it was hurting. At the time we started the meds, she was walking slightly crooked based on the way she was holding her body, most likley due to arthritis in the hip. 

The combination of meds worked well for her. When she collapsed and ended up at the E-Vet in the middle of the night, they advised to take her off of the Carprofen due to the long term side effects of the drug. They felt that it might have been a factor in her collapse, but couldn't prove or disprove that theory. 

We left her on the Gabapentin dose of 200mg twice a day but stopped the Carprofen. Now that she has been off of the Carprofen, she is once again holding her body at an angle so I'm thinking she needs another med. We have not done her follow up yet with our regular vet and have been waiting to do that until we knew what impacts, if any there were from the collapse. She has been perfectly normal otherwise, and I just started seeing her holding her body like this again yesterday. Otherwise, she is running, jumping, playing and digging her hole in the yard like she's 3 years old. She does not know her age. 

What alternatives to gabapenin have fewer side effects and will help with what I'm guessing is arthritis pain based on the x-rays, and maybe just some overall age related body aches?  Any experience with them will help. We will be getting her tothe vet this week for follow up. 

Thanks! 

[Johnfar]

Librela perhaps?

 

[ramonaghan]

Galliprant is supposed to be safer for kidneys/liver than other NSAIDs. We tried it with Sweep and she did fine with it, but we didn't feel it was as effective as Previcox for her (also old racing injury and arthritis). She was on that off and on from age 5 til she passed at 12.5. Her kidneys were only starting to decline a bit at the end, but that very well could have been chemo too. Still, I'd probably try Galliprant first for my current two. 

Interesting that you mention the crooked walking. Willa does that too. I'd never seen or heard of it before. We know she had a racing injury of some sort but no specifics.

Hope LaVida gets a good report this week.  

Edited February 6, 2023 by ramonaghan

[Time4ANap]

6 hours ago, ramonaghan said:

Galliprant is supposed to be safer for kidneys/liver than other NSAIDs. We tried it with Sweep and she did fine with it, but we didn't feel it was as effective as Previcox for her (also old racing injury and arthritis). She was on that off and on from age 5 til she passed at 12.5. Her kidneys were only starting to decline a bit at the end, but that very well could have been chemo too. Still, I'd probably try Galliprant first for my current two. 

Interesting that you mention the crooked walking. Willa does that too. I'd never seen or heard of it before. We know she had a racing injury of some sort but no specifics.

Hope LaVida gets a good report this week.  

Thanks - As far as recent labs go, LaVida's kidneys are fine. Labs were done last month and some were done again at the E-Vet.  We've had a number of seniors on carprofen with no issues, most of them in their later years as mobility decreased with pain evident. I think the ER vet was probably being overly cautious about the Carprofen as he had a whole laundry list of things that he wanted to check for 4 grand. Um, no....

I actually put her back on ithe Carprofen tonight but will likely give it once a day istead of twice until I talk to the vet. She was just holding herself kind of hunched and the crooked walk was really bad. I can tell that she definitelty got some relief already. Also, Stella is going to be heading home to Denver next week which will  mean that LaVida will do a whole lot less running, chasing and jumping which should help. 

10 hours ago, Johnfar said:

Librela perhaps?

 

Not familiar with it but will research it.  Thanks. 

[macoduck]

My podenco boy Howie was on galliprant for a couple of months to see if it helped the severe arthritis in his bowed front legs. There was no improvement. Tried Fresh Factors supplements for months and they did nothing. He's now on gabapentin and it has helped somewhat. It hurts to see him get up and tried to walk after he's been laying down for a while. Vet did not want him on carprofen because he's on clomicalm.

My next consideration is the Get Up & Go products from the Greyhound Gang. Have you tried that yet, Don?

[FiveRoooooers]

We tried Galliprant for Punkin and she had a simultaneous pancreatitis flare but we aren't confident the two are related. We used Methocarbamol (Robaxin) for Andy's mobility issues and it can be used with NSAIDs and Gabapentin. Chiro? Adequan? We've had very good results with these for the seniors.

Good luck LaVida, hang in there! (We'll miss Stella!)

[Time4ANap]

5 hours ago, macoduck said:

My podenco boy Howie was on galliprant for a couple of months to see if it helped the severe arthritis in his bowed front legs. There was no improvement. Tried Fresh Factors supplements for months and they did nothing. He's now on gabapentin and it has helped somewhat. It hurts to see him get up and tried to walk after he's been laying down for a while. Vet did not want him on carprofen because he's on clomicalm.

My next consideration is the Get Up & Go products from the Greyhound Gang. Have you tried that yet, Don?

Hi Ducky,

We have not tried those. Our dogs since Rocket have been on the Frsh Factors and Springtime Joint Helth product.  We saw a big difference in Rocket's activity level after we started using those years ago, and have just kept all of the dogs on those as a daily supplement. 

[greysmom]

I mean, the list of available nsaids is long.  It's just finding the one that works the best for your individual dog.  I would suggest Galliprant, as others have, because it's supposed to have way fewer side effects and organ issues, but (anecdotally) it's success is very spotty for the dogs we see take it here on GT.  We are a Meloxicam house here because I've always had the best luck and effectiveness with that drug (as opposed to Rimadyl or carprofen).  It is very persnickity regarding dosage-by-weight though, and the range is very small.  It *does* have the option of a liquid suspension that is easier to give an individual dose (and adjustments to the dose).  It's also a lot easier of their stomachs and causes less upset and nausea, especially when given after a meal.

If you're keeping her on the Gabapentin, you might also discuss adding in an actual pain reliever.  We use codiene sulfate as I find it much more effective than Tramadol and much better tolerated.  You also might try adding a dose of an anti anxiety med that helps the gaba and the opiate be more effective.  Some here have tried this with their osteo dogs and found it to be very effective.  Of couse, I can't remember the one used/suggested - I think it starts with an "A" though.  Check through the last pages of the current Osteo Thread.  Someone may have mentioned it there.

[Time4ANap]

9 hours ago, FiveRoooooers said:

We tried Galliprant for Punkin and she had a simultaneous pancreatitis flare but we aren't confident the two are related. We used Methocarbamol (Robaxin) for Andy's mobility issues and it can be used with NSAIDs and Gabapentin. Chiro? Adequan? We've had very good results with these for the seniors.

Good luck LaVida, hang in there! (We'll miss Stella!)

We did a full workup with a physical rehab vet right around Christmas. They felt that with the pain meds working at the time, LaVida would probably be fine just going for short walks, and maybe some cold laser or the Asiss  ioop we've been discussing. She holds her foot in a way that throws off her gait. I'm really thinking that her activity level will diminish without Stella here and she will be much more "back to normal." Since the E-Vet was more worried about long-term effects of the Carprofen and it wasn't related to her collapse, I went ahead and put her back on it last night at one dose daily instead of two until we get a feel for how well that works and we consult with the vet. I'm hoping all of this becomes a non-issue once Stella is gone, as none of this happened until LaVida decided that she could keep up with the young dog. 

3 hours ago, greysmom said:

I mean, the list of available nsaids is long.  It's just finding the one that works the best for your individual dog.  I would suggest Galliprant, as others have, because it's supposed to have way fewer side effects and organ issues, but (anecdotally) it's success is very spotty for the dogs we see take it here on GT.  We are a Meloxicam house here because I've always had the best luck and effectiveness with that drug (as opposed to Rimadyl or carprofen).  It is very persnickity regarding dosage-by-weight though, and the range is very small.  It *does* have the option of a liquid suspension that is easier to give an individual dose (and adjustments to the dose).  It's also a lot easier of their stomachs and causes less upset and nausea, especially when given after a meal.

If you're keeping her on the Gabapentin, you might also discuss adding in an actual pain reliever.  We use codiene sulfate as I find it much more effective than Tramadol and much better tolerated.  You also might try adding a dose of an anti anxiety med that helps the gaba and the opiate be more effective.  Some here have tried this with their osteo dogs and found it to be very effective.  Of couse, I can't remember the one used/suggested - I think it starts with an "A" though.  Check through the last pages of the current Osteo Thread.  Someone may have mentioned it there.

Thanks - good info! 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Time4ANap

[Remolacha]

I used Meloxicam/metacam (the liquid) for Conner when his wonky foot caused him to limp in the opposite shoulder. Acupuncture from Peg, of course, and he also saw the chiropractor to “adjust” his spine. Galliprant didn’t seem to do much for him and luckily the  meloxicam didn’t cause any side effects.

[Time4ANap]

On 2/6/2023 at 3:38 PM, Remolacha said:

I used Meloxicam/metacam (the liquid) for Conner when his wonky foot caused him to limp in the opposite shoulder. Acupuncture from Peg, of course, and he also saw the chiropractor to “adjust” his spine. Galliprant didn’t seem to do much for him and luckily the  meloxicam didn’t cause any side effects.

Thanks!  She's feeling much better since I put her back on the Carprofen at half the dose she had been on. We will re-evaluate after next week when Stella goes home since LaVida's level of play should be reduced after that. 

[cleptogrey]

carprofen is rymadial, right? i use less carprofen then the prescribed amount since i noticed that sighthounds get more than wonky from it.

for arthritis- metacam and Pecid AC before dose/meals. Adequan seemed to work the best but it is a royal PITA loading up to the full dose. 

[Time4ANap]

On 2/8/2023 at 3:07 PM, cleptogrey said:

carprofen is rymadial, right? i use less carprofen then the prescribed amount since i noticed that sighthounds get more than wonky from it.

for arthritis- metacam and Pecid AC before dose/meals. Adequan seemed to work the best but it is a royal PITA loading up to the full dose. 

Thanks for this info. The vet recently recalculated the carprofen dosage and felt that we should increase it a little to get the correct dosage for her weight. As a result she has gotten way wonkier. We are seeing the vet today to do a re-check to make sure there is nothing new bothering her, and see about adjusting the dosage or trying a different med. She was much better on the lower dosage of carprofen. She's obviously not hurting because she runs like a racing dog when outside, but she walks so "all over the place" that I'm afraid she's going to hurt herself while walking or getting up, or that she will fall on one of the concrete or tile surfaces outside because they are usually a little dusty from the desert and slippery.  We noticed the increased wonkiness within a day or two of the increased dosage, so I'm thinking that's the culprit. Will update when we know something. 

I did Adequan injections for Rocket which worked well until it didn't. That's on my list of questions for today also. 

[macoduck]

Don, so far we've tried carprofen, adequan, gabapentin, Fresh Factors, and galaprant for Howie's bone on bone elbow pain.

My vet with the strong pharmacology background said let's try meloxicam. It's an oldie but a goody and inexpensive. So far it is the only med to show definite improvement in Howie's mobility.

[FiveRoooooers]

2 hours ago, macoduck said:

Don, so far we've tried carprofen, adequan, gabapentin, Fresh Factors, and galaprant for Howie's bone on bone elbow pain.

My vet with the strong pharmacology background said let's try meloxicam. It's an oldie but a goody and inexpensive. So far it is the only med to show definite improvement in Howie's mobility.

La Vida 

[Time4ANap]

5 hours ago, macoduck said:

Don, so far we've tried carprofen, adequan, gabapentin, Fresh Factors, and galaprant for Howie's bone on bone elbow pain.

My vet with the strong pharmacology background said let's try meloxicam. It's an oldie but a goody and inexpensive. So far it is the only med to show definite improvement in Howie's mobility.

 

2 hours ago, FiveRoooooers said:

La Vida 

Thanks Ducky and Miss Jan. 

The vet suspects that LaVida has GOLPP - a combination of Laryngeal Paralysis and Polyneuropathy affecting her back legs. We ran some bloodwork to rule out things such as Valley Fever and Tick Borne Illnesses, as well as checking other finctions,  so when those results come back we will have more info. In the meantime we are discontinuing the Gabapentin which may be exacerbating the impact to her back legs, and also cutting back the Carprofen until the labs come back to see how she does. She will likely not be having her dental in July, and the vet has advised against doing tieback surgery. We may revisit that once we have labs back and see how the change of meds affects her. 

Not exactly the news we were looking for, but we will take this a step at a time. The good news is that there is no pain in her back legs, they are just wonky. One of her front legs is likely hurting, so we do need to keep some pain meds on board and decide further courses of action once the labs are back. 

Thanks everyone.  Link to info about GOLPP - https://cvm.msu.edu/scs/research-initiatives/golpp/living-with-golpp

[FiveRoooooers]

Oh man, not the update we were hoping for. But I’m glad that you at least have a diagnosis and there are/may be some options. You know that any protocol will contain fries, amirite La Vida? Sweet girl 

[ramonaghan]

34 minutes ago, FiveRoooooers said:

Oh man, not the update we were hoping for. But I’m glad that you at least have a diagnosis and there are/may be some options. You know that any protocol will contain fries, amirite La Vida? Sweet girl 

 And ice cream! Hugs to LaVida and her people.

 

[Time4ANap]

3 hours ago, FiveRoooooers said:

Oh man, not the update we were hoping for. But I’m glad that you at least have a diagnosis and there are/may be some options. You know that any protocol will contain fries, amirite La Vida? Sweet girl 

 

2 hours ago, ramonaghan said:

 And ice cream! Hugs to LaVida and her people.

 

We have a standing prescription at the McD's down the street. 

Definitely not what we were expecting to hear, but I am glad that we have a vet with 27 years of practice under her wing including previously owning greyhounds. (This is the same vet who got Mark to throw up the rock.) She is awesome with Mark and LaVida. 

[Remolacha]

I am sorry she didn’t get better news but at least this sounds manageable.  I hope she can be comfortable.

[Time4ANap]

11 hours ago, Remolacha said:

I am sorry she didn’t get better news but at least this sounds manageable.  I hope she can be comfortable.

Thanks. We stopped the Gabapentin yesterday and this morning I had a little girl with a wagging tail running all over the place. She's not 100% but the Gabapentin was obviously making the rear legs way worse than they actually are,  She walked around looking for any crumbs that Mark might have dropped in the area of the treat jar, so I know she's feeling a little more with-it this morning. 

[Remolacha]

  None of my dogs ever had a bad reaction to gabapentin, I haven’t either, but the kittens I was fostering last year got some when they came home from their spay/neuter and one of them was stoned out of her little furry mind for hours. You just never know until you try. 
Has she been tried on meloxicam? Old school, but I like it because the dosage can be precise to their weight. But some dogs don’t do well on it.

[ramonaghan]

1 hour ago, Time4ANap said:

Thanks. We stopped the Gabapentin yesterday and this morning I had a little girl with a wagging tail running all over the place. She's not 100% but the Gabapentin was obviously making the rear legs way worse than they actually are,  She walked around looking for any crumbs that Mark might have dropped in the area of the treat jar, so I know she's feeling a little more with-it this morning. 

We almost let Sweep go earlier than we did because we thought her mobility had gone so far downhill. It turned out it was the Gabapentin, and I am eternally grateful we tried ditching that first. She never did seem to build up a tolerance to it.

I am glad LaVida's back to feeling more like herownself!

[FiveRoooooers]

4 hours ago, Time4ANap said:

Thanks. We stopped the Gabapentin yesterday and this morning I had a little girl with a wagging tail running all over the place. She's not 100% but the Gabapentin was obviously making the rear legs way worse than they actually are,  She walked around looking for any crumbs that Mark might have dropped in the area of the treat jar, so I know she's feeling a little more with-it this morning. 

This is such a happy read! Keep feeling better, La Vida!

At some point would it be worth backing down her previous dose to see if just a touch of Gaba could be enough to help her? Just a thought.

[Shannon]

8 hours ago, Time4ANap said:

Thanks. We stopped the Gabapentin yesterday and this morning I had a little girl with a wagging tail running all over the place. She's not 100% but the Gabapentin was obviously making the rear legs way worse than they actually are,  

This has been my experience with gabapentin as well.  
 

I’m not sure it helps very much with pain, but it sure  made my dog’s hind end weakness and crookedness much more severe. He was also socially withdrawn and sedated. 
 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Shannon