Aggression problem

[RustysDad]

Hey everyone, I’m new here and this is my first post. Hopefully I can get some help and advice. A little background…

I live alone with my Greyhound, who I adopted in January. This is my third Greyhound. He’s a sweet three year old boy named Rusty. He’s high anxiety compared to my other Greyhounds, he cries a lot and has a lot of separation anxiety. But overall he’s a super sweet boy and I love him to pieces. The problem is he can be very aggressive with me and I just don’t quite know what to do, he was like this from day one. I know he enjoys my company, he follows me around the house and outside in the yard if I’m doing things outside. He’s playful with me and overall he seems to be happy. But when he’s laying in his bed (most often it’s in the evening or night  but not always) he will get really aggressive with me and bear his teeth and growl and snarl at me. This isn’t a sleep startle issue, he’s fully awake. Sometimes he’ll be in my bedroom, where I have his bed right next to mine, and if he even hears my footsteps coming towards the bedroom he will start growling. In the middle of the night when I have to get up and go to the bathroom, when I come back in the bedroom he growls like crazy at me. Sometimes for a minute after I lay back down. I’ve noticed if I make eye contact it’s worse. I’ve never dealt with this before and didn’t know what to do at first. I began to use a playful voice and say ‘oh Rusty you’re such a goofball, why are you growling at me. I love you buddy’ not that he understands what I’m saying, but it’s more about my playful friendly tone of voice. And for a while that seemed to work.  I called the rescue I got him from and she said maybe he doesn’t see well at night. So I would outreach my hand so he could smell me. Sometimes that helps and sometimes it doesn’t. 
It’s like he has two personalities! He’s such a sweetheart but can be so mean!! Lately it’s been really depressing me, because I live alone with him and I’m usually very very close with my dogs. They’re like my best friends. But I don’t feel like he’s much of a friend when he’s acting like this. I don’t think I’d be able to ever bring him back to the rescue, I just wouldn’t want to give up on him like that. But honestly I cried myself to sleep last night because I’m so upset that my buddy seems to hate me. I treat him so well with so much love and kindness. I’m gentle with him and never raise my voice or do anything he would see as being threatening. I know better than to yell at him when he does this but I just don’t know what to do anymore. And like I said it’s been heartbreaking for me. I want to have a happy and healthy relationship with him. But after 8 months of this I seriously don’t know how much more I can take. It’s an everyday behavior. I’ve never had a dog act aggressively towards me. 
Please help!! 
I love this little guy, but I’m getting frustrated and don’t know what to do. I’m disabled and on a fixed income so I don’t have a ton of money to hire a behavior specialist. Plus I live in such a small town I doubt there’s any here anyway. 
Thank you for reading. Any advice/opinions are much appreciated!

[Time4ANap]

I'd say have a thorough vet check first.  This will confirm whether or not he has a vision problem and my first thought goes to some kind of imbalance like thyroid or maybe something else. There are others here who have dealt with thyroid and other issues that resulted in strange behavior, so hopefully they can suggest which things to have checked. 

We had a fanstastic boy who had sleep startle and space issues, so I know the frustration you are feeling. We learned how to work around those things but you definitely want to find or rule out a medical issue as a first step.  Good luck! 

[RustysDad]

Thank you for your reply!

That’s very interesting. He does have low thyroid. My vet has been adjusting his meds to raise the numbers, but seems like every time they test him, the numbers are still too low. He’s due to have that checked again soon. I would never have thought that thyroid problems would lead to aggression, but I know very little about thyroid problems. If it’s thyroid related, I’m assuming once the meds are adjusted and his numbers look good, this behavior will go away? That would sure be great! 

Edited August 25, 2021 by RustysDad

[RustysDad]

I forgot to ask, does having a thyroid imbalance cause aggression? I always thought it was more of a weight and energy problem. What are some of the problems associated with having low thyroid for Greyhounds? 

[HeyRunDog]

Here is a bit of information about thyroid levels in greyhounds and symptoms which you might find interesting. Just check your vet is greyhound savvy as greyhound thyroid levels are different to most other breeds of dog. https://greyhoundsaspets.org.nz/sites/default/files/2013/01/Hypothyroidism.pdf

[Time4ANap]

6 hours ago, RustysDad said:

Thank you for your reply!

That’s very interesting. He does have low thyroid. My vet has been adjusting his meds to raise the numbers, but seems like every time they test him, the numbers are still too low. He’s due to have that checked again soon. I would never have thought that thyroid problems would lead to aggression, but I know very little about thyroid problems. If it’s thyroid related, I’m assuming once the meds are adjusted and his numbers look good, this behavior will go away? That would sure be great! 

I haven;t dealt with thyroid issues in my greyhounds but can remember seeing lots of weird things posted over the years where the dog is just not acting normal. Many of those ended up being thyroid related.  As Hey Run Dog posted above, you want to make sure that your vet is very familiar with greyhounds as their blood values can be very different than other dogs.  I wouldn't connect aggression directly to the low thyroid, but rather that your dog is letting you know that he doesn't feel good or that something is off.  He sounds like a sweet boy. We had a very sweet boy but he had a few quirks that we had to be careful of. This could be a quirk or it could be something medical. I always try to rule out anything medical first to make sure we are giving the best care possible. 

[macoduck]

Definitely print out HeyRunDog's article and give it to your vet, as well as this one by Dr Stack. http://www.greythealth.com/hypothyroid.html

I'd also suggest:

- have him wear the muzzle, all the time if possible. Mostly you'd want him to wear it at night but if only putting on at night he may associate it with bedtime.
- greyhounds do sometimes sleep with their eyes open
- time to boot him out of your bed and your couch. Keep a martingale on him at night. When he growls leash him up and gently talk to encourage him to get off the bed, not yanking on the leash. You may have to repeat this many times each night.
- keep a nightlight on in your bedroom and hallway

I've only had one sleep aggressive greyhound out of 14. Very scary to awake to her standing over me. I didn't know about the tricks I post back then. She did not have thyroid problems. Eventually the behavior stopped.

[LBass]

I have utmost compassion for how disconcerting it feels when your loved dog growls and snarls at you. I'm dealing with that same behavior in my 4 y/o, Nate.  As mentioned above, I'd start with a thorough vet check--how bad is his vision, does his thyroid treatment need tweaking, is there something else going on.  I'll mention that one of the reasons my vet and I chose to treat my Spirit's very mild low thyroid levels for years was that I could see a bit of improvement in his timid and fearful nature on thyroid supplement.

Nate has PRA, progressive retinal atrophy, which is a genetic condition that causes blindness.  He has some definite space anxiety that is likely related to his blindness.  We've learned not to pet him when he's in his bed.  He has been known to growl, snarl, bare teeth, and lunge at me, touching me with his nose--everything except a bite.  It is frightening and upsetting.   Because of the combination of behavior and health issues, I decided to work with an animal behaviorist.  I found Behave Atlanta and worked via Zoom meetings with an animal behaviorist and a trainer.  They were a game changer for me in helping me understand what was going on with Nate and how to manage that frightening behavior.  

Because of Nate's known vision issues, they said that he feels particularly vulnerable when he's sleeping, and lying down in his bed.  They suggested giving him a protected place where he could relax and sleep, knowing that he wasn't at risk.  That ended up meaning that he's been sleeping in a crate in another room because I can't cram his crate into the bedroom.  I don't particularly like having him off in another room but HE loved sleeping him his crate.  With the recent passing of 14.5 year old Spirit, Nate actually asked to move back into the bedroom.  We're experimenting with that this week and the jury is still out but I think we can make it work.  

Dealing with this behavior is hard, lots of work and adjustment to your dog's need's on your part.  I understand how emotional it all is as well.  On the other hand, I want to meet my dog where he is and give him what he needs.  I still have a good, solid, loving relationship with Nate-we play, take walks, work on training. I pet him when he comes to me or when he's standing up and receptive and he loves that!  The loving bond is still there.  Just without the cuddles I wanted or was used to.

You can make this better for both of you.

[RustysDad]

Thank you all so much! So much wonderful information here. I have an appointment with my vet this morning. I scheduled the appt to talk with her about what I can do about his strong separation anxiety, but messaged her last night to make sure I can test his thyroid again. It hasn’t been checked since she upped his dosage. Before we did that she said his numbers were so low they didn’t register. But with all this new information I feel so much better being well informed myself and not just going along with what she says. Hopefully her ego doesn’t get hurt when I suggest this reading material for her regarding Greyhound’s specific needs with thyroid testing. Do many of you do the full panel testing?

Also, although sometimes this happens when he’s sleeping he’s definitely not always asleep. I’ve noticed times where he just laid down and he’s fully awake and does this. And I don’t allow him on my bed although he is allowed on the couch. And now that I really think about the times he does it, this strikes me as interesting…he has a bed in the living room and one in the bedroom. The one in the living room is on the floor, and the one in the bedroom is elevated almost as high as my bed. I do that because of where the bed is, it’s tucked in the far corner of the bedroom and if I don’t elevate it he can’t see past the bed and I know he feels comfy being able to see the rest of the room and the doorway. So the times he growls he’s either in his elevated bed in the bedroom, or on the couch in the living room. I could be mistaken but I can’t recall a time that he’s growled while laying on the bed that’s on the floor in the living room. Wonder if there’s something to this? He possibly feels more dominant up on the couch and in his elevated bed? But not so much on the bed on the floor? Maybe I should experiment with no couch and put his bedroom bed on the floor also and see what happens? 
Another thing I’ve thought about is it seems like I was making progress with him. I’m 99% sure he was abused. Several times when I’ve gone to grab his collar he flinches like he was afraid I would hit him.  This happened more when I first got him.  It’s in the last couple weeks that he’s started growling badly again. What I’m thinking possibly made it worse was that I had my girlfriend from out of state staying with me for the past three weeks, she left back home on Saturday, and his aggression has gotten better just in the last couple days. He had severe anxiety when she was here. He started really goofing on flies in the house. Even if it was just one fly he would end up running into the bedroom and laying in there all day. It was difficult to get him to come out, and when he did it was short lived. It was really starting to concern me. That’s when it got so bad he would growl just hearing our footsteps nearing the bedroom. He didn’t hide in the bedroom at all yesterday, and he only did a very minor growl at me once. Which is a huge improvement over just a few days ago, and his behavior is much different. He’s more affectionate with me again and seemed to be in an overall better mood. So I’m wondering if my girlfriend staying here really threw him off and put him into a defensive mood? I was wondering that while she was here, and now that she’s gone I do notice a significant difference in his mood and aggression.  
I noticed while reading Dr Stack’s article it said if you haven’t noticed any improvement in the bald patch on their hind end please stop giving them the thyroid meds for 6 weeks and see what the results are. Well I haven’t seen any improvement on his bald area and he’s been on the meds for over 6 months. Would you suggest I try stopping and see what happens? 
I looked at his medication container and it just says ‘thyro tabs’ and the article said that Soloxine is superior and to accept no substitutes. Should I ask her to switch him to Soloxine? (I’m assuming thyro tabs are something else) Also he just had a refill two weeks ago and when I just looked at the bottle it says to give him one and a half  .8 mg pills twice daily, and I don’t recall her telling me to up his dosage from when it was one pill twice daily so I’ve still been doing that. So maybe he’s not getting as much as he needs. It’s all so much to take it. Thinking he needs more but reading how this is over diagnosed and to not continue to chase the higher numbers by continuing to increase dosage. I’d love to hear some advice/opinions of what I should do regarding his medication. Give it a rest and see what happens? Increase his dosage to what it’s supposed to be? Find out his results today and go from there? Switch to Soloxine? 
Seems like there’s so many options it’s hard to know exactly what to do at this point. 
Thank you all so much for your help! 

 

 

[MaryJane]

How close is his bed on the floor to your bed?  You may want to set up a pen (4x4) in your room and put his bed in the pen - he might feel more secure surrounded by wire panels like he would have been at the track.

[RustysDad]

It’s right next to my bed. Unfortunately I have a small room and wouldn’t have room for a pen. 

[greysmom]

Several thoughts, in no particular order:

I doubt seriously if he suffered any sort of "abuse" anywhere.  The behaviors your using to define it are all normal behaviors of dogs of many breeds and backgrounds.  He sounds like a highly anxious individual, and flinching at unexpected contact and not liking his routine messed with are indications he's a dog who does best with a strict schedule and few surprises.  It could be that your dog will need anti anxiety medication, along with his thyroid supplementation, to truly work through his SA and resource guarding issues.  You might do a search for "spooks" here on the forum and see if those threads offer you any insights into his behavior.

As Lucy stated above, it can be very scary when your dog barks and growls and lunges at you, but you need to take a step back in those times and try and remember that he's not doing it because he's "aggressive" per se.  He has a medical condition that creates behavioral problems which exacerbates his underlying SA and resource guarding issues.  It's not personal and it's not directed at you - he feels anxious and scared, and reacts to outside stimulus the only way he knows how.

Low thyroid can definitely add on to his high anxiety reactions.  It's well documented that low thyroid can cause a whole host of symptoms and behaviors that you wouldn't think would have anything to do with it, and anxiety and aggression are on that list.  I would caution though about falling down the thyroid rabbit hole too far.  I had a dog who's *normal* thyroid level was .2, which is barely registerable, and he was completely fine.  As Dr Stack's article probably stated, the only way to truly know what his thyroid levels are is to have the full panel run and interpreted by MSU.  So if your vet has just been doing regular T4 testing you don't know the whole story.  

Re the Soloxine vs thyro tabs - I would ask your pharmacist to clarify the exact ingredients in the tabs.  It could be they are just generic soloxine.  Like with people, individual dogs react differently to the different forms of thyroid supplementation, so you won't actually know if one is better than another unless you try them.

I would also re-think his bed placement to areas that are quieter and less in the paths you have to travel frequently so he has less reason to react anxiously.  If you have room for a crate I would also give that a try, even if it's in another room. 

Always call him to you for pets and attention, don't approach his bed or where he is laying down. 

If you're, say, both in the living room relaxing, and he's laying quietly and not reacting, say his name to have him look at you and throw him a small treat every once in a while, as long as he remains calm and non-reactive.  Reward the behavior you want to encourage, ignore the behavior you don't want.

Always make sure he's awake and aware whenever you need to move around close to him.  Our first greyhound was terrible with sleep startling (she drew blood on us several times before we learned!), so we always call our dog's name if we need to move within snapping reach, even with dogs that don't resource guard/sleep startle.

Lastly, I see you're in Oregon.  Did you adopt Rusty through GPA-NW??  If so, you might post on their Facebook page about finding a greyhound savvy vet close to you.  There's also a page for Eugene/south valley folks specifically, and an active page for Oregon Greyhound Adoption, though the adoption group doesn't exist anymore.

Good luck!

[RustysDad]

I don’t have much time to reply. I have to get going soon. But wanted to ask your advice for this vet visit I’m going to this morning. Since he’s been on thyroid meds for 6 months and not showing any signs of improvement (as far as the bald patches and anxiety) should I try taking him off the meds for a while and seeing how he does?

Also is there a specific anti anxiety medication you would recommend? 
I’ll reply to the rest later. I have to get going soon.  Thanks!

[macoduck]

Just now catching your comment about bald thighs. Rarely do they indicate a problem. Some greyhounds have really bald thighs their entire life and have normal thyroid values.

Melatonin may be of some help for both calming and bald thigh hair growth. Pills come in 3, 5, and 10mg doses.

Chris - can you give some input on melatonin?

[greysmom]

I've never had any luck with melatonin either for calming or growing back butt fur.  And you have to be really careful you get melatonin with no artificial sweeteners in it.

If there's  been no change in his thyroid values, no matter what testing you've been using, you may need to seek out the advice of a competent internist or endocrinologist.  Or even a neurologist.  Your dogs issues may be something entirely different than low thyroid.  The hospital at OSU may be your closest option, but I don't know where you are, and am really unfamiliar with vets in the southern valley.

As far as anti anxiety meds go, I'm a big advocate for Trazadone for many issues, though each dog reacts to different classes of meds differently and you may need to try several.  If you want to go the natural route, you can try CBD calming chews or drops from a trusted manufacturer.  Or there are many other calming products from various sources online.

If you haven't tried a DAP diffuser and collar yet, it's worth a shot

[palmettobug]

My boy Gino has space possession and aggression issues, Prozac has helped. He and his brother Roman also get CBD capsules; Roman has separation and travel anxiety. All of them get l-theanine at bedtime.

As far as growing hair back, good diet and time for most greys works best. Salmon oil is good, but some dogs like Roman can't handle it, his tummy is super sensitive.

As a person who is hypothyroid, I make sure to take the name brand Synthroid. It may cost more, but it's been proven to work better than the generics.

[zimsmom]

Wow lots of solid advice on this thread.  Hope it helps you!!