Is This The End?

[Guest ritamarino]

I created a new thread - will try to link the original post but I wanted some thoughts.

 

BAD NEWSA about Buck

He is still alive, but his albumen has fallen to 1.7 after 10 days Budespnide and 2 weeks Pred. He was at 2.2 before. Poop progressively better but I guess albumen is all that matters. The reason we went in was because of the pit edema in his back hock after 10 days Pred following 10 days Budespnide when he got scary thin. So I decided to give the pred since that was the doctors preference.

The vet is out of options and for now has prescribed cyclosporine 100 mg twice daily and trying Dexamethasone 2 mg injected. He says the pred shouldn't cause him to fall but it is not working for him and but he is saying that he is seeing other effects of pred in his blood. The reason we are giving him the injectable Dexamethasone is to see if his intestine is so inflamed that he cannot absorb it - though he also said that other results of pred were evident in blood work like liver numbers etc.

 

His edema in back feet is slowing him down and I guess the vet is concerned there will be sores soon and he will not be able to walk etc. obv we will not let him come to that. My mind is not totally here right now. Not sure if the consult with animal medical center next week makes any sense. Should I try and see a homeopathic Doctor? Anyone have any suggestions? Poop is progressively better he has had some good poop days - overall improved but he is getting a rapidly closing window to stabilize himself. Anyone have anything to share?

 

The dog is eating well. Yes he has lost weight. He doesn't seem to drink AS much on pred as some dogs reportedly do. But obv the albumen cannot keep falling and in his case the severe ascites. My husband says he is getting worse, but he is magazine balancing his skinny body on the balloon of the stomach. Generalized muscle wasting has started but so far I don't feel his quality of life is gone. So I guess it's down to the last two weeks? Anybody have anything to suggest? I am in the car and wanted to post this to get responses but I will post a link tony original thread in a response.

Original thread

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/321414-ple-greyhound-questions/page-2?do=findComment&comment=6033201

[KF_in_Georgia]

Consult with Dr Couto?

[Guest ritamarino]

Does he do phone consults? Can you give some more info? - Edited- found info and am contacting him.

Edited September 22, 2017 by ritamarino

[seeh2o]

Does he do phone consults? Can you give some more info? - Edited- found info and am contacting him.

Yes, by phone or email. Here is the link to his website http://www.coutovetconsultants.com/

[tbhounds]

Needs to be hospitalized to receive hetastarch (or straight albumin) asap or you will lose him. Not sure how much forward I can be.

[Guest ritamarino]

Hi tbhounds - doctor mentioned albumin but said it was a temporary measure at best and it would only work in the short term. It would not help him get better, also the question of quality of life in Buck, especially since he hates hospitals is brought into question. If there is no treatment for him, then prolonging the inevitable isn't worth it I think. I want to find as much as I can in the next few days as possible. I cannot breathe. I appreciate your comment.

[tbhounds]

You need a new vet

[NeylasMom]

I wouldn't dare speak for Tbhounds, but my take on her post is you may not have days though I'm not sure.

 

I unfortunately have no advice not having dealt with this issue though I've been following along and hoping for the best and will continue to do so.

 

One thing I will say, there are plenty of medications they can use to keep him sedated as well as prevent him from being anxious if he needs to be hospitalized. If this is just a matter of getting him stabilized and getting the biopsies so you can diagnose and treat him it may be worth considering. I certainly understand the hesitation as I had a fearful hound as well, but there are great meds available now. I get not wanting to go through all of that if he won't get better, but it seems you never really got a good diagnosis and treatment plan.

 

ETA: Rereading your OP, no, no chance I would see a homeopathic doctor. I think the options at this point are a good internal medicine specialist who SEES your dog, or if the current treatment isn't working and he no longer has a good quality of life you say goodbye.

Edited September 23, 2017 by NeylasMom

[Guest ritamarino]

You need a new vet

 

Are you saying he can pull out of this with hetastarch/albumen? I dont know how long Dr Couto will take to get back to me. Is your hospital good at this? If you are in NJ, and it seems your vet may have experience, would you email me at amritab @ yahoo? My options - take him to the ER at Animal general here in NY and tell them to put him on Hetastarch. Or wait till Thursday to see Dr Palma at Animal General on Thu (guessing you think that will be too late). Or wait for Dr Couto. Vet thinks this may not be GI related, that it may be lymphoma. I want to do the best for him but the vet himself said beyond what he gave me (cyclosprine + Dexamethasone), he cannot do more. So I have no one to go to in reality.

[robinw]

Are you saying he can pull out of this with hetastarch/albumen? I dont know how long Dr Couto will take to get back to me. Is your hospital good at this? If you are in NJ, and it seems your vet may have experience, would you email me at amritab @ yahoo? My options - take him to the ER at Animal general here in NY and tell them to put him on Hetastarch. Or wait till Thursday to see Dr Palma at Animal General on Thu (guessing you think that will be too late). Or wait for Dr Couto. Vet thinks this may not be GI related, that it may be lymphoma. I want to do the best for him but the vet himself said beyond what he gave me (cyclosprine + Dexamethasone), he cannot do more. So I have no one to go to in reality.

tbhounds is very knowledgeable and have lot of doggie health care experience.

[greysmom]

Yes, you can *probably* keep him alive until next Thursday, but I don't think you'll be doing him any favors. Once this disease progresses beyond a certain point, the tissues in the intestines can not heal themselves. At this point, they can't absorb the fluid his own body is making and are dumping them into whatever space is available. This also means he's not absorbing any nutrients and probably not any medication.

 

IF you can get him to a hospital, and IF they will start the hetastarch this evening, I believe it's only a holding strategy, at this point. If the treatment was going to work, it would have - he's been on steroids for over three weeks with no appreciable change for the better. There really isn't anything else to try after that.

 

Sometimes you just can't make them better no matter how hard you try or how badly you want to. I'm so sorry, but I think it's time to say goodbye and let him go.

[Guest ritamarino]

My husband thinks it's time so too - I was crying but I told the doctor and my hand that I was ready to say goodbye. No one listened to me and I came home with these injections and boxes of cyclosporine. it doesn't make sense prolonging the inevitable. I wish we hadn't spent 500 dollars on meds today. I don't feel like giving him these crazy meds. I think my vet understood I had tried so hard but he was not responding positively. He said with human albumin, there was a potential for shock and that it wouldn't work also. I think I know what to do. My last thought is to take him of these drugs and observe him like a hawk and see maybe if he gets better. I read some cases where dogs got better without these drugs. I have at home euthanasia services researched. I won't make him suffer if he doesn't improve. I don't think veterinary medicine can solve all problems and hospitalization isn't a viable long term solution.

My husband thinks it's time so too - I was crying but I told the doctor and my hand that I was ready to say goodbye. No one listened to me and I came home with these injections and boxes of cyclosporine. it doesn't make sense prolonging the inevitable. I wish we hadn't spent 500 dollars on meds today. I don't feel like giving him these crazy meds. I think my vet understood I had tried so hard but he was not responding positively. He said with human albumin, there was a potential for shock and that it wouldn't work also. I think I know what to do. My last thought is to take him of these drugs and observe him like a hawk and see maybe if he gets better. I read some cases where dogs got better without these drugs. I have at home euthanasia services researched. I won't make him suffer if he doesn't improve. I don't think veterinary medicine can solve all problems and hospitalization isn't a viable long term solution.

[NeylasMom]

I'm sorry.

[JohnF]

I really do feel for you and your dog in this predicament. It sounds like you have already gone that extra mile and three more for him.

There is totally no blame at all in letting him go when you are settled in your heart that his quality of life has gone and is very unlikely to be returned.

If it was me I'd ask the vet to hopsitalize for a day or so and then if no progress was seen, agree to let him go,

 

These decisions are always heartrending... again there is no blame.

 

[Guest ritamarino]

The trip to the vet seems to have taken the last leg out of him. He always throw up after, he barely moved last night. Eventually I took him out after massaging his back feet. He is laying peacefully now but I feel the difference in just one day. I wish I saw what my husband did at the vets last evening. We will have to say goodbye today. I will not allow him to continue like this. His spirit seems to have gone.I am so sorry I failed you Buck. I couldn't do much for my previous two greyhounds and so I promised this time I will try. But it was ultimately for no good. Thank you everyone for your support and kindness. Hug your pups tightly.

[tbhounds]

I’m sorry- I can not believe your vet sent you home with meds -your vet failed you.

Praying for a peaceful passing.

[Charlies_Dad]

I am very sorry you have to make this decision. I hope Buck's passing is peaceful.

[Guest ritamarino]

He is calm now, resting. The vet would barely make eye contact with me yesterday. My husband thinks he did the meds because he thought I wasn't ready to say good bye. He discerned his body language to say nothing could be done. Sent paperwork to dr Couto but he too is in lectures today so not sure he will find anything in time.

He isn't in pain on the outside. If Dr Couto suggests some entirely different protocol, I will take him to VERG right away. He is out of it, but I know these road trips to Long Island do a number on him, always.

My husband, who has always had dogs, thinks its not humane to drag him to hospitals any more. I will, if Dr Couto sees something entirely wrong in his tests. I had a previous dog who has hospitalized the entire last weekend of his life and we couldn't save him, so I am reluctant to do it but as I said, if something looks totally out of place in time, Buck will get to go to the hospital. My crappy luck - Dr Couto is at a conference, he will try to take a look in between lectures. At this point nothing but a miracle will save him.

 

Dont know what to do with all the unused drugs. Oh well. I should try to get a few hours of sleep.

Edited September 23, 2017 by ritamarino

[DocsDoctor]

So sorry for you and Buck. Re the drugs, if you can't return them to the vet I am sure your local greyhound rescue/ animal shelter would be grateful for them. That was what I did with my old dog's.

[Neighsayer]

Hugs!

[tbhounds]

Return the meds back to your vet for a refund.

[4My2Greys]

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this.

[Guest ritamarino]

He is sitting here. A bit out of it, but ate 2 dinners worth of fish, no sweet potato. Was reading about the dog Dandi on the old threads. Still wondering whether to give him another day to wait for Dr Couto's read on him. I dont want his edema to spread to his lung and have him in torture. I wish my husband would support me a little in giving him another day, but he makes me feel like I am being cruel to him. Yes, I get it. If he cant walk, he will not have the quality of life soon. Maybe another day. Dont know. Please pray for him.

[dmdsmoxie]

I don't usually post on these threads because there are a lot more qualified people than me to get medical advice from. However, keeping the dog at your house for another day does nothing to try and solve a problem. I would take him to a different vet, get his or her opinion and if that opinion is there is nothing left to do then I would end it right there.

 

These decisions are never easy and I'm sorry you are going through this.

 

Dick

[Guest ritamarino]

I know, I am in denial. His swelling on his foot has reduced but he is slowly becoming immobile. He did eat about 14 oz of tilapia this morning. I know that this level of effort to get him to walk will not be sustainable for us. Also it seems that without a biopsy, we cannot do much. The witching hour is 2 pm. Please pray for Buck and everyone can just ignore my mad ranting.