claudiav Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I though I was losing Sarge yesterday and last nite. He is my first IBD pup, adopted 5.5 months ago @ age 11. He lost his home of 7 yrs to mom becoming disabled and going into nursing home. I have his vet records from those 7 yrs and, if it's possible to believe, it is half a page long. He raced and was adopted out at 78 lbs and only went to vet for annual shots, where every year he lost one lb, and for SA meds. When I got him 5.5 months ago he was 70 lbs and a bag of bones. I took him off SA meds over the course of 7-10 days, as I felt he didn't have SA and didn't need them. He was in foster care for 3 weeks before he came home with me. Foster mom said he ate fine and had normal bms. I got him home and immediately changed his diet to raw, as I hate commercial dog food. On day five, he started explosive diarrhea and became very dehydrated. I waited too long to see my vet, and he was admitted for fluids and iv meds. Since then, it's been a rollercoaster of weight loss and weight gain, never to get out of the 60s, and with intermittent food strikes, dehydration, and two more hospitalizations for rehydration and iv meds. He was initially diagnosed with campylobacter infection in his small and large intestines, as well as IBD. We have tried more foods than I can count. The problem has always been Sarge's appetite and loss of interest in any food he previously liked. He likes something for 3 days, a week at most, and then he refuses to go near it again. After 3 different antibiotics (Flagyll, Tylan powder, another I can't remember), we finally found one that worked and got him better (Zeniquin). Ultrasound showed it was slowly working, but infection was still lingering, so he was on it for 6 weeks, or so. Prednisone on and off to get his appetite stimulated so he would eat. As soon as Pred was dialed back, he would stop eating. Of course, throughout all this, he would refuse one kind of food, and I'd have to change to something else he would eat. Thru it all, he was not allowed to eat raw, but he drooled watching Leyla eating raw. After our vet thought he was well enough, and he stopped eating any and all dog food (kibble and canned), she gave us the ok to slowly introduce raw and see how he tolerates it. He did well, had good poops, but after 7-10 days, refused raw too. Refused to eat anything! Went back to chicken and started another of the bad reactions that caused him to get dehydrated and hospitalized for the 2nd time. So know for sure he is allergic to chicken now. Still won't eat vet food. Tried everything and only canned cat food was successful. Alpo canned, sliced beef in gravy, was other thing he liked, but never in concurrent meals. He wanted Alpo for bkfst, but not for lunch or dinner. Gave cat food, milk bones, or anything he would eat. Next day, he wanted Alpo, but not the treats. and on and on... I know the constant variety in his food is bad, but what am I to do when he won't eat, and he can't afford to skip meals??? he would gain a pound, lose three... I have run out of ideas... It's killing me... Saturday nite and all day Sunday, he started moaning while sleeping. Constant moaning. Inhale, moaning on the exhale. I didn't think it was right, but I didn't know what it meant and my vet was closed. All day, he would not get up out of bed, when normally, he is attached to my hip and follows me everywhere... can't stand to have me out of sight. Found a vomit pile with some of the Alpo beef slices in it. When he would go out, he vomited some more, and would stand there confused as to what to do next. If I didn't open the window and call him back in, he would just stand there trembling. He would come to the doggie door, but not know what to do. I had to hold the flaps open for him to come inside. He drank a bit and later on, would throw it all up. Late afternoon, early evening, he started leaking bloody diarrhea... he didn't even know he was going on himself. Thru this all, he was still moaning and he started panting very hard, so I finally took him to the ER vet. Right before going in, I took him around the parking lot to pee/poop and he exploded bloody diarrhea. Inside, they took his weight, 27 kilos, 59.5 lbs, no fever, high bpm, heavy/fast breathing, disoriented, lethargic, sat down on the cold floor and started moaning again... Vet came in and noticed his tongue was purplish and admitted him right away before telling me he is in very very bad shape and we could lose him. I freaked out and burst into tears and beat myself up for waiting 8 hrs to take him in. She said the moaning was b/c he was so uncomfortable, and in pain, so I am beating myself up over not knowing he was in pain all night and all day long. Sarge spent the night at the ER and he's still there. My vet is open today, but it makes no sense to move him, and he's continually leaking bloody diarrhea. At 1 am, the vet called to tell me he's severely SEVERELY bleeding and it's critical. At 7:30 am, he'd perked up a bit, was still bleeding, but it was more like a paste. Bloodwork came back as expected, he was very dehydrated, not absorbing proteins from food, etc. X-rays showed thickened intestines, consistent with dehydration. Radiologist felt his chest x-rays also showed slight bronchitis. He's been treated with 3 different antibiotics, pred, etc and something for bronchitis thru iv. They're going to try feeding him @ 4 or 5 pm, will see how that goes.... though I don't hold out much hope. They said he's not moaning anymore, but b/c the bleeding diarrhea won't stop, he won't be coming home tonite. I can't wait till work is over and I can go visit him in his kennel. he didn't seem to recognize me last nite @ midnite, before I went home. He was out of it, his eyes seemed sunken in... I hope he recognizes me, or at least looks better tonite. So the last part of this book......... the ER vet and my vet feel that he is ready for a feeding tube. We can't keep going on the way we have been. We can't keep having these episodes every few weeks (this one having been the worst of many). I can't force feed him and cause both of us the awful stress.... Feeding tube is the way to make sure he gets the nutrients he needs, no risk of choking, or getting pneumonia from fighting the forced feeding, and it'll be like he's wearing one of his many collars. Weekly vet checks to make sure the hole stays clean, and don't have to deal with his food pickiness... best for him, best for me... So does anyone have any experience with feeding tubes? Any advice? Things to look out for? How should I deal with him when he sees Leyla eating, but he can't eat regular food? I imagine he'll get jealous and upset he can't get what she's having. How vigilant do you have to be to keep the hole clean? How long does it take to feed? I assume 4 smaller meals will be the new feeding schedule. How will he handle it all? Last, but not least, here are some recent pics of my heart Quote Image removed, not within Signature Guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MnMDogs Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Your poor boy, and you My first question would be, what would you be feeding through the tube, and is the expectation that it wouldn't be done until after the bloody diarrhea is resolved? Have they done any perpheral nutrition (directly into vein), and are they considering that in the meantime? It's not a lot of nutrition, but it's some until his gut seems stable. We had a feeding tube in our Mara to try to manage her megaesophagus. We kept a small tank top on her to keep the area covered and clean. I think if it's Sarge's appetite that you're worried about that the TF is a good idea. However, if the issue with his gut health isn't resolved, the TF may not be tolerated either. I'm very very sorry you're going through this/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claudiav Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 I don't know if they're giving him any food directly in the vein... I doubt it... they are trying to stabilize his bleeding first and foremost.... and tomorrow, when they expect he'll be done, he'll get the feeding tube put in... they said it's a fairly simple procedure... Quote Image removed, not within Signature Guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MnMDogs Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Yes, it was very simple to place the tube. It was almost 4 years ago we went through this, so I can't remember the details fully. But we got a high calorie food from the vet that we blended with warm water so we could syringe more easily into the tube. The vet should give you the number of cc's to feed per feeding and how long this should take. It should be warmed up, as it's better tolerated. You asked if he would feel bad not being able to eat Leyla's food... is there a reason he couldn't have any food by mouth? With Mara, she couldn't, but I wonder if Sarge will be able to also have some food if he can tolerate, and will eat on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claudiav Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'm guessing he'll be strictly tube fed since we can't take the risk of anything upsetting his sensitive tummy... and since he's so darned picky... but I do feel sorry if he can't even enjoy his small milk bone biscuits... he loves those...or at least he loves them when he's feeling good... Quote Image removed, not within Signature Guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Is he currently receiving pain meds?? Buprenex would not only reduce his discomfort but, it will slow the GI tract down. He sounds like he has IBD. I know you mentioned you tried different diets but, did you try a hypoallergenic diet?? I would personally not be afraid to tube him but, feed him only a hypoallergenic diet and start him on budesonide (after switching him from the IV pred) and get him on a IV hetastarch drip. (Can I assume your vet ran a TLI?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claudiav Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'm sure he's getting some kind of pain meds, though I don't know which one. We did try Royal Canin Hypo-allergenic kibble and canned. Also, a low residue diet also by Royal Canin. We tried venison and potato vet diet, and Natural Balance (He hated both). I even tried raw venison, and he wouldn't go near it... he acted like it was diseased or something... He liked these raw rabbit sliders, for a little bit... but couldn't even finish the 15 lb bag before he wanted no more... What is this: IV hetastarch drip & this:TLI? Quote Image removed, not within Signature Guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charbess Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Oy, this is not good news...makes a lie out of the adage "no news is good news." I am so sorry to read this...your stress level must be through the roof. Feeding tubes are nothing I have had experience with, even third handedly. So much of my knowledge about what to try feeding Bess came from you (I still have a can a tripe!) so I know you really are trying everything and anything. Hopefully, the tube will get him over this hump. What can I say except prayers for him and for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claudiav Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 yup... surprisingly, even Leyla is walking away from canned tripe... I never thought I would live to see that day.... Sarge only like tripe for a day... He liked PetFresh cooked beef & veggie (in fridge @ supermarket and pet food stores).... for a week... that was the longest I think... I still have 15 lbs of it in my freezer chest... Quote Image removed, not within Signature Guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlies_Dad Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I am so very sorry your and Sarge are going through this. It breaks my heart to read this and unfortunately I do not have any advice for you. Sarge is a handsome pup, please give him a kiss from me when you see him. Quote Kyle with Stewie ('Super C Ledoux, Super C Sampson x Sing It Blondie) and forever missing my three angels, Jack ('Roy Jack', Greys Flambeau x Miss Cobblepot) and Charlie ('CTR Midas Touch', Leo's Midas x Hallo Argentina) and Shelby ('Shari's Hooty', Flying Viper x Shari Carusi) running free across the bridge. Gus an coinnich sinn a'rithist my boys and little girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Maybe this will help. http://www.vetinfo.com/canine-colitis-diagnosis-blood-test.html#b Forgot to mention that your vet should run a folate B-12 with the TLI. In a very abbreviated explanation the hetastarch will help with the low albumin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest budsmom Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 My cat had a feeding tube for several weeks. I used the canned food from the vet thinned with water, also. They told me how many cc's to give and how many times daily. It wasn't hard to do, and as long as he tolerates the food it would help him gain some weight. There is also a human anti-depressant (I forget the name) that can be given as an appetite stimulant, also. It is inexpensive and a small pill so easy to give. You might ask your vet about that, also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walliered Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Huck had IBD and had to have B12 shots. We never went the feeding tube route. He liked all food, but could not ever find one that would agree with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claudiav Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 Maybe this will help. http://www.vetinfo.com/canine-colitis-diagnosis-blood-test.html#b Forgot to mention that your vet should run a folate B-12 with the TLI. In a very abbreviated explanation the hetastarch will help with the low albumin. All the symptoms fit.... I just emailed the ER vets to ask if he's been tested for canine enterocolitis (we already know both, small and large, intestines are inflamed, though not due to parasites). Bacteria was found in September and we thought we got it under control with 6-8 weeks of Zeniquin... but the constant food change/variety just continues to ruin any progress we make with ABs... I give him weekly shots of B-12, in addition to Pred 30 mg (15 mg 2 x day), and famotidine for upset tummy... appetite is there with these... but he is so darned picky and turns away from mostly everything I offer him... Quote Image removed, not within Signature Guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 If it's suggested to continue with a corticosteroid I might suggest that you switch to budesonide. Budesonide is without the horrible side effects that is seen so often with pred--increased drinking, weight loss, muscle wasting, panting..... Budesonide stays within the GI tract-very little side effects seen systemically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighsayer Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Good luck! Hope the feeding tube solves the problem. Let us know how the visit goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IrskasMom Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I am so sorry for you and Sarge to go through this :grouphug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesiRayMom Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 If I may ask, what are they planning on putting through the feeding tube? What happens if he just vomits it all up? Or spews it out in diarrhea? FWIW, I have a mutt with old-age gastric issues (vomiting & diarrhea, no appetite). Budesonide & Prilosec have worked wonders for him. Although even at his worst, he wasn't in as bad shape as your Sarge seems to be. Wishing the best for Sarge. Quote Blessed is the person who has earned the love of an old dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claudiav Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 I went to see my baby tonite... he is doing so much better!!! he came right to me and stuck his head in my armpit He didn't eat for the vets in the afternoon, and he wouldn't eat for me (three different types of canned food: hypo-allergenic, or the I/d or w/d... don't remember which one).... I expected that.... he was nervous and kept trembling, but he was feeling and looking better... he even trotted down the hallway in the hospital... YAY!!! the bleeding is coming down... and they expect it to be gone by tomorrow.... and he will get the feeding tube put in... I learned that he will still be able to eat regular food, even with the tube, so that's good... I will have to still limit his food, but glad that he won't be drooling when I feed Leyla... About the bleeding... they said it was the lining of his stomach/intestines that broke down and was regenerating a new lining... the danger was that while the lining was breaking down, he was liable to get bacteria in the blood and get infection or septic... but with all the fluids and three ABs, he's doing well... I asked about his lack of eating... he hasn't had a thing to eat since Saturday nite, but they said he's getting the nutrients he needs in the fluids... fingers crossed he continues improving and gets the feeding tube put in tomorrow, and from then on he will start to get the nutrition from the food, without the fuss over the taste... he needs to put on some weight... The search is on for a food that will be good to his tummy... not cause any inflammation... and I'm reading that high in fiber is good as well... Quote Image removed, not within Signature Guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4My2Greys Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I went through something recently, although no where as serious, with Nadir. It seemed that everything he ate after about 3 days to a week would bother his stomach so he would stop eating it. I had bought so many different kibbles and canned foods as add-ins to tempt him to eat. I even tried two different hypo-allergenic diets, which resulted in bloody diarrhea. After having exhausted what I thought was every food I found Canine Caviar. I bought a small bag of chicken and pearl millet to try and it has been a huge success. He has been on it for about 3 months now without even adding any canned foods to entice him to eat. I do add a half teaspoon of Konsyl physillium husk fiber to his meals to help with his bowel movements, which for him tend to be on the constipated side. I know you said Sarge doesn't do well on chicken, but they have a lamb and pearl millet variety also and it is the millet I feel that has made the biggest difference for Nadir. This is information on millet from their website, which by the way I read after he had already been doing well on this food. Pearl Millet is highly nutritious, non-glutinous, non-acid forming, beneficial to the stomach, spleen and pancreas, and is considered to be one of the least allergenic and most digestible grains available. Millet is a good source of fiber, a complete protein and is rich in phytochemicals, which lower cholesterol and the risk of cancer. Millet is one of the best grains for intestinal disorders and is ideal for the management of blood sugar. Here is a link to the Lamb and Pearl Millet if you want to check out the ingredients: http://www.caninecaviar.com/product/lamb-pearl-als/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachbum1 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 What a relief to read this when I got up this morning. I was checking for hours last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverhound Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Check this thread: http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/302114-mandibulectomy-from-oral-fibrosarcoma-just-came-home-today/ It's current, but a very different situation from yours. I bet the person would be willing to talk about the practical aspect of it all. Good luck. Quote Masterful Joe and Naughty N Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claudiav Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Thank you Riverhound. I posted a message in that topic, in the hopes that racinmason reads it... with only 11 posts, they cannot PM... Sarge update: My luv is supposed to come home this afternoon. He had the feeding tube put in yesterday and was fed twice, with success. Surgeon didn't want me to visit him last nite... he wanted him to remain calm and relaxed after the procedure... today, he said he seems depressed... my heart is aching... I miss him so much and can't wait to get the ok to pick him up... He still has diarrhea, but it's not out of control, as it had been for two nights... he has swelling and edema at the iv site, so they switched legs yesterday... they are bringing liquids down slowly, in anticipation of a release today... worried about what to feed him long term... ER vets don't know enough about that and their internist is out for two weeks... my vet is out sick today, but I'm sure I will hear from her tomorrow... and the ER vets will send me home with SOMETHING short term... worried about his IBD and finding a food that will work well for his tummy, that will bulk up his stool, and that will put some desperately needed weight on... counting down the hours till I see his beautiful grey muzzle and kiss it raw Quote Image removed, not within Signature Guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachbum1 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SusanY Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 So relieved - can't wait to see you both xo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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