Osteo Thread Part V I I

[45MPHK9]

I'm so sorry that Lana is gone. She was a beautiful girl.

[4My2Greys]

Victor, I'm so sorry.

[a_daerr]

So very sorry to hear about Lana's passing.

I was holding out that things would improve.

[greysmom]

I'm so very sorry.

 

Run far and fast and pain free, sweet Lana....................................

[Guest LazyBlaze]

I'm so sorry that you've lost Lana. What a beautiful girl.

[Guest fastcasper]

Victor,

I'm so sorry you had to let Lana go. That is a beautiful picture of her! I have to admit that I am crying right now for your loss and what I will be facing in the near future with my Casper boy. She was one lucky girl to have you and you gave her a great life post racing career. Hang in there and you all are in my thoughts. I am so very sorry.

 

Kim

[BauersMom]

Victor, so sorry to hear the news of Lana. Godspeed, sweetie.

[MrAlexTheDog]

i'm sorry about lana's passing, victor.

[Victor]

Thanks everyone. We appreciate your condolences. Lana would've been happy to know so many people cared about her.

 

Keep up the good fight Casper, Henry, Libby, Twiggy, Treetop, and all the other greys battling this horrible disease.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Victor

[greysmom]

For those who remember her, I just saw on Facebook that Maggie Mae has passed on.

[a_daerr]

Oh no!

[4My2Greys]

No

I'm hoping though it wasn't the osteo that took her. I'm hoping that she was one of the ones like Darcy that beat this dreadful disease.

[krissn333]

I dont think it was. She'd been having some other health issues.

[Charlies_Dad]

Wow, Maggie Mae has left us....that is so very sad, she was a hero to all of use battling this disease.

[Guest Greytblackdog]

Hi everyone,

 

We are new to this tread, unfortunately. My 10.5 year old, Seka, was diagnosed with OS on December 16. She is not an amputation candidate due to a deformed back hip that came from a break when she was a puppy and the growth plate closed over it - and yes, she raced. We couldn't get lucky and the OS show up in that back leg. Instead it was a front right shoulder. Just crappy luck all the way around and the amputation route just isn't an option no matter how much we want it to be.

 

So, I'm doing the homeopathic route for now. X-rays 4 weeks from diagnosis showed no change in the tumor and lungs are clean. But we are struggling with the right pain management protocol.

 

We were doing Rimadyl 150mg 1x a day but switched to Deramaxx 35 mg 1x a day and Gabapentin 100mg 1x a day. She hasn't been comfortable since Saturday. The oncologist at OSU is talking to my vet today. But am I right to think this isn't what we need to be doing?

 

Heather & Seka

Perry, GA

www.greytblackdog.com

[greysmom]

The most common pain regimen involves an nsaid, gabapentin, and tramadol, provided your dog can handle the opioid pain medication. The nsaid at regular dosage intervals, but the gaba and tramadol need to be given every 6-8 hours, as they metabolize more rapidly in greyhounds. Also, in talking with your vet, you both need to keep in mind that there's not really a need to be conservative in dosage amounts. The goal is to keep ahead of the pain, and not to have to fight to get it back under control. An average size greyhound (@70-75 lbs) can get up to 300 mg gabapentin every 8 hours, so you have quite a ways to go to increase there.

 

Gabapentin can cause some sedation, which should decrease as your dog gets accustomed to the dosage. Tramadol can also cause some side effects - either sedation (which should lessen with time) OR extreme agitation are both common reactions. If your dog becomes agitated there's not much to do except ride the dosage out and decrease it the next time.

 

There are quite a few people here with experience with doing palliative care for their osteo dogs. Good luck!

[MP_the4pack]

I'm so sorry Victor. 8 is just to darn young.

 

[a_daerr]

I agree that Seka needs more in terms of pain management. Osteo is one of THE MOST painful types of cancer there is. Better to be ahead of the curve than behind it. It's good that her lungs look good, though. You may have a decent amount of time left if the cancer is slow-going and hasn't metastasized yet.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Heather, I'm so sorry to run into you and Seka in this forum.

 

Yes, you need a higher dose of gabapentin. Sam had arthritis and disk pain down his back. His stomach couldn't tolerate NSAIDS, so he was taking tramadol and gabapentin. (Also methocarbamol, a muscle relaxer.) Sam's vet had okayed 900mg/day of gabapentin. I started with 1 100mg capsule, three times a day for a couple of days so he could get used to it before I stepped it up to a higher dose. (I also restricted his access to the stairs at my house. He was too wobbly to take them safely, even when he wasn't drugged.) Note that it sometimes can take 48 hours before the gabapentin gets up to full strength.

 

I typically gave Sam 200mg of gabapentin, four times a day, reserving that last 100mg for bad days (bad weather, or he'd taken a fall). And 50mg tramadol at each meal (vet had authorized 50mg/6x a day, and Sam normally got 4 pills). Sam had gotten too wobbly and shaky to stand long enough to eat a large meal, so he got four small meals a day (happy dog!), with pills at each meal. I made sure to wake him up late at night, potty walk him, give him half a cup of kibble, and give him pills. If he fell asleep about 10pm, he'd be miserable by morning if I didn't give him the bedtime dose.

[Guest Greytblackdog]

Thanks, Kathy. Seka is already wobbly due to that bad back hip. I hate to add to that, but if she isn't in pain, then that's what I want. It almost seems like it is a muscle strain in that side. The muscle along side her ribcage going over the top of that shoulder is quivering and it hurts for me to rub it. I'm still waiting to hear back about the pain protocol today. I have Tramadol from a previous injury, I just don't know how much we can give her.

[KF_in_Georgia]

I never saw any ill effects from the drugs in Sam. Of course, he was already so wobbly that it's possible the drugs didn't make things worse.

 

The problem with tramadol is that too high a dose may make the dog exhibit symptoms of anxiety--panting, pacing. At that point, you think the pain killer isn't working, when in fact it is. Easing back on the tramadol gets you the pain relief you want without the bad side effects. It's why I never gave Sam the full dose of tramadol that his vet said he could have.

 

I just pulled out Sam's last bottle of tramadol: "Give 1 to 2 tablets by mouth up to three times daily or as needed for pain." The tablets are 50mg, and Sam weighed 65 pounds.

 

Also, with the quivering muscle, I'd ask your vet about methocarbamol (Robaxin). Sam got it--and Silver takes it--because with their arthritis, they were skewing their normal movements when they got up and laid down--tensing up muscles and making themselves yelp. The methocarbamol instructions were "Give 2 tablets by mouth for the first 3 doses, then 1 tablet two to three times daily or only as needed for muscle spasms." The methocarbamol tablets are 500mg. Silver is still taking about 1 a day of these, and she weighs 55 pounds.

 

All three of these meds--gabapentin, tramadol, and methocarbamol--are available at people-pharmacies for much less than the typical vet's price. And people pharmacies are open on weekends for refills when your regular vet isn't. (I use Walgreen's, and I have their Prescription Savings Club card for my "family"--currently, Silver and me. That got me discounted prices on the dogs' drugs and on my flu shot. The card is $35/year, but I think you can get your money back if it doesn't save you that much.)

[Guest Greytblackdog]

I had 50mg Tramadol on hand, so I gave her one with dinner tonight. That muscle is sticking out and pretty painful. I wonder if she did something to it. I called the vet about the Robaxin. I'll probably hear back from them in the morning, although they are known to hear from them after 8p. I gave her the other half of the Deramaxx today (a total of 75mg), one Gabapentin (100 mg) and so far one Tramadol (50mg). I'm hoping the OSU oncologist can help my vet understand about the metabolism issue and the amount needed to keep them comfortable. We're also looking into palliative radiation, but nothing is close to us, so it's a commitment. I'm curious about pamidronate as well. I'm not good at sitting back and just letting nature take it's course, as you can see . Thanks, Kathy!

[Guest fastcasper]

Hi Heather,

This is Kim and Casper, we emailed each other on the arte and bone cancer forum. When Casper had bad phantom pain, my Oncologist bumped up his Gabapentin to 400mg every 8 hours. He was not sedative on it but with the combo of Tramadol, he was wobbly. My doc said we could go as high as 600 mg but that would be pushing it. We never had to do that. In fact, now he is on 100-200 mg in the morning, and 300 mg in the evening (every 12 hours). There are some great folk here and feel free to ask away. We are all so passionate about our greys and most of us are pretty experienced with this horrible disease.

 

Kim

Victor,
I am still so sad about Lana. I hope you and your wife are doing ok. Did you have Lana on any herbs or supplements? I know you had trouble with Pallia (sp).

Kim

[Guest Greytblackdog]

Hi Kim & Casper!

 

Happy to find you here too. I just got home from a Relay for Life meeting and Seka was happy to see me. Playing with her ball and trying to get me to throw it for her. But as soon as the excitement of mommy coming home she started limping again. I gave her a second Gabapentin for the day (200 mg total) and I think I will give her another Tramadol before bed (100 mg total for the day). Can I give the Tramadol with the Arte? I had to stop LDN today because we added the Tramadol today. I was gone after the first Tramadol, but my husband said she acted like she couldn't get comfortable. She'd sleep for 20 min and then cry and get up. Maybe it was a reaction to the Tram?

[Guest fastcasper]

The Tram made Casper more "panty" and maybe a little restless now that I think of it. Casper did very well with the Gabapentin. It's more a pain medicine for the nerves which doctors use a lot in OS cases. You can give Tram with the Arte as you can give Gaba with the Arte. Those drugs are doing two different things so there should not be a contraindication to them.

 

Kim