Osteo Thread Part V I I

[Charlies_Dad]

Glad to hear that Henry is doing better and the abscess is starting to heal a bit. We scaled back the tramadol after two weeks but I don't recall by how much and you're asking the right questions that someone else should be able to respond to or you vet should have told you how to scale back. As for stoic, yup, that's Greys for you and it's hard to tell what their pain threshold is.

[Tallgreydogmom]

We have a ramp on the stairs on the deck for the greyhounds. Our other tripods had no problem going up and down the ramp. Our current tripod has a problem coming up the ramp. DH usually goes down and carries him up. It seems to just depend on the individual greyhound.

[greysmom]

Dude did the stairs just fine with a rear leg amp. The one thing is that he had to go *really* fast - the whole momentum thing. Scared the crap out of me every single time. But he was motivated to try even before we wanted him to, so we never really had to coax him. If he has a support harness, you might use that to get him going. If you have the room, get him up to speed before you get to the stairs and just sort of carry him up the first few. He also might not have the muscle strength quite yet to do them. You'll just have to see how it goes.

 

As far as tramadol, yes, dogs can become addicted to opiates. I would keep the timing but reduce the dose by half and see how he tolerates it. The abcess is likely fairly painful, so you might wait a day or so.

[krissn333]

As for reducing the tramadol, I'd keep the interval the same and just reduce how much you give him. If he's currently taking two, I'd go to 1.5 for a few days and see how he does, then to 1, then maybe even to a half.

[Guest fastcasper]

I'm sorry to hear Lana had a tough time on the meds again, but it sounds like she maybe getting back on her feet again. Please don't kick yourself for putting her back on it. It is the standard practice of care. Though it messed up her GI system and you feel you lost 2 weeks, hopefully the medicine did do it's job and slow the mets down and she is not showing clinical signs of the mets getting bigger. You ARE doing the very best for her and you simply can't know how dogs will react to things.

 

It's nice to hear Henry is starting to get over this infection and his personality is starting to shine through. I concur with what others have said about the Tramadol. I would reduce the dose by a little but keep the time interval and then maybe stay with that does for a day or two and extend the time longer (instead of every 8 hours, try 10 hours).

 

Tuesday is chemo day for Casper. Hopefully he won't be delayed again. He still seems fine. On our walks sometimes he stops to "catch his breath", we stand there for about 10-15 seconds and then we are off again. I don't know if he gets tired because he is running, or his front leg gets tired, or the mircromets are affecting him al little. I hope not the latter.

[Guest mhalton]

We lost my 12 year old "heart-hound" Dutch on November 22nd 2013. He was my first Greyhound and I deeply loved him. On December 12th 2013 my second and only other hound (7 year old Libby) was diagnosed with Osteo in her front, right leg. Do to the location/degree of advancement and the fact that her right rear leg is already compromised from a former injury amputation is not an option. She has received her death sentence and we are beyond heartbroken. She is currently on Tramadol 100 mg. (up from 75) up to 3 times a day. It seemed to help for the first day or so but now she just lays in her bed crying out in pain every time she adjusts her position. Am I doing the wrong thing by trying to keep her around and keep her comfortable during what she has left of her lifespan? I read on NGAP's site how all I am doing is prolonging the inevitable break of the leg and do I really want to put her through that? Am I being selfish? For those of you who have been through this please be kind as I am trying to do the best thing for Libby's sake but find it hard as I just lost one of my baby's and now face losing the other. Thank you in advance for your kindness and understanding!

[BauersMom]

We lost my 12 year old "heart-hound" Dutch on November 22nd 2013. He was my first Greyhound and I deeply loved him. On December 12th 2013 my second and only other hound (7 year old Libby) was diagnosed with Osteo in her front, right leg. Do to the location/degree of advancement and the fact that her right rear leg is already compromised from a former injury amputation is not an option. She has received her death sentence and we are beyond heartbroken. She is currently on Tramadol 100 mg. (up from 75) up to 3 times a day. It seemed to help for the first day or so but now she just lays in her bed crying out in pain every time she adjusts her position. Am I doing the wrong thing by trying to keep her around and keep her comfortable during what she has left of her lifespan? I read on NGAP's site how all I am doing is prolonging the inevitable break of the leg and do I really want to put her through that? Am I being selfish? For those of you who have been through this please be kind as I am trying to do the best thing for Libby's sake but find it hard as I just lost one of my baby's and now face losing the other. Thank you in advance for your kindness and understanding!

I'm sorry to hear this

 

Have you maxed out on the pain med options? What is she on now, just tramadol? There are some other things to try, if so. I believe there's a link on the front page about gabapentin and other pain med options. There are others who can go into what worked for them, since I went the amp route, I'm not as knowledgeable about the various doses, etc.

[45MPHK9]

Mhalton, I am so sorry that Libby is dealing with the excruciating pain of osteo. We lost a hound, Bee Wiseman, to this disease two years ago. We gave Bee Wiseman Deramaxx, Tramadol, and Gabapentin at the same time. (She started out only on Tramadol. We then added the Deramaxx and then the Gabapentin.) She lived for eight weeks after being diagnosed with osteo. When we saw her limp return after taking all three of those drugs at high doses, we made the decision, with the help of our vet, to release her fom her pain. Obviously, Tramadol is not enough to manage Libby's pain at this point.

 

I'm sorry for what you are facing right now. It is a miserable road.

[Victor]

Thanks, Wendy and Kim. Lana's GI issues seem to be resolving. She still has the conjunctivitis, though, and yesterday out of the blue we noticed two hard lumps on her hind leg. She seems tired again, too. We're going to take her back to the vet tomorrow.

 

Hope Casper's chemo goes well. Will they take chest x-rays first to see if the chemo is having an effect on the lung mets?

[a_daerr]

Mhalton... wow, you have been hit so hard in such a short amount of time. So sorry to hear about Dutch and Libby.

 

Hoping Casper's chemo goes well tomorrow.

[Victor]

mhalton, I’m so sorry to hear about Libby. Has your vet talked to you about pamidronate? It’s a bone hardening drug that’s used when amputation isn’t an option. Also, you might consider radiation therapy to help ease the pain.

I agree with the others about getting Libby started on gabapentin. If you do a search on GT you’ll find helpful information on dosing. It takes time for gabapentin to build up and have an effect, so it’s good to start it sooner than later. Also, just fyi, for palliative care it seems that gabapentin needs to be given at higher doses and more frequently than what vets commonly prescribe.

Is Libby on an NSAID like Rimadyl, Deramaxx, or Previcox? If not, that will help, too. In fact, Libby will most likely need an NSAID plus gabapentin and tramadol, like 45MPHK9 said. With NSAIDs you just have to be careful about GI upset. If one NSAID causes problems you can try another. Also, you might ask your vet about giving Libby a daily antacid to help prevent GI problems.

Again, I’m so sorry you have to join our club. Hugs for Libby.

[MP_the4pack]

Oh Michelle, how horrible. I've only had one OS girl and it was a front end. She was 12 and I did chose amp for her. I brought her out to OSU since they see so many greyhounds for their opinion on whether amp was an option for such an older dog. Dr. Couto said that 12 was only a number.

 

She made it 6 months before OS hit another leg.

 

I lost her a month and half after I lost her sister, my heart and soul hound, Pearl, so I do know your pain. Pearl's death was the beginning of losing 6 in 2 years. I've also had the misfortune of losing a young one too. I lost a 5 yr old (14 yrs ago today).

 

Please remember, whatever decision you make, you make for love. I'm so sorry you're making this journey so soon after losing Dutch. (I adopted one of my current girls, Tanzi, from Monica's Heart)

[Guest fastcasper]

Hang in there with Libby. You have some good options for managing the pain. Radiation is a good option. Casper has been on Gabapentin for his phantom pain. In the height of it , I had him on 400mg every 8 hours. Greys seem to metabolize these meds quicker than other breeds. I feel gabapentin is effective for about 8-10 hours. My heart breaks for you. I have lost 3 lovely greys for various reasons. My first lived to 13! I can't seem to get another one to reach that age. The others I lost at 9 and 6.5. Casper turned 10 in November. I'm so thankful he made it to the double digits.

 

Victor, they are not going to do chest x-rays this time, but in 2 weeks, unless they feel the need. But we decided two doses of the Doxo then see where things are before we make our next move, if there is one to make. He did great on his walk today and is seemingly fine! But who know what is going on inside his lungs. I feel the Doxo may be some what working because they saw the mets 1 month ago and he still seems ok. who know though...maybe it just me being hopeful.

[JJNg]

She has received her death sentence and we are beyond heartbroken. She is currently on Tramadol 100 mg. (up from 75) up to 3 times a day. It seemed to help for the first day or so but now she just lays in her bed crying out in pain every time she adjusts her position. Am I doing the wrong thing by trying to keep her around and keep her comfortable during what she has left of her lifespan? I read on NGAP's site how all I am doing is prolonging the inevitable break of the leg and do I really want to put her through that?

 

So sorry to hear about your loss of Dutch, followed so closely by Libby's diagnosis. While a leg break is a very real risk, it doesn't happen with all, or even most, dogs with bone cancer. (I'll just say that NGAP has some very strong opinions about medical issues, not all of which are in agreement with current veterinary data and recommendations.) More often, the decision to euthanize is made due to pain that cannot be adequately managed with medication. There are excellent pain management protocols these days that do not 'drug' the dog and allow them to continue to enjoy a good quality life. There's nothing wrong with trying to take advantage of these options to get some more quality time with your girl. On the other hand, if you want to absolutely prevent the possibility that she will experience a leg break, there's nothing wrong with deciding to euthanize sooner rather than later. It's a personal decision, and there's no right or wrong answer.

 

If you do decide to continue with pain management, I do hope she is started on more than just tramadol, if she isn't already. As others have mentioned, the pain of osteosarcoma is usually managed with a combination of several meds. When dealing with a terminal diagnosis, IMO, there's no reason to hold back on meds. The combo of an NSAID (like Rimadyl, Metacam, Deramaxx, or Previcox) + tramadol + gabapentin addresses different aspects of pain and work together to provide the best control.

 

An additional thought...while the diagnosis of osteosarcoma is heartbreaking, try to focus on her life and enjoying every day to its fullest, rather than dwelling on it as a death sentence. Having had a dog with metastatic cancer, I know this is easier said than done, but it's something to try to keep in mind.

[Guest Taras]

The thing we do for our pups. Last night Tree did not come back to the bed room to go to sleep. He decided to go and sleep in the office so I did to . On the floor on the memory foam dog bed . And he sunggled right up to me . He has never been one to get on my bed so this moment was so special to me . I love this boy.

We saw the vet this past saturday and he looked him over and said he is not ready to leave yet. And as of today it has been a year since i 1st noticed the weird lump on his ribs. Still eating good and is happy . The vet said i will know when it is time . Just very thankful for each day

[Guest fastcasper]

I'm so happy to hear treetop is doing well! 1 year is certainly a huge success. It's the absolutely the best when they cuddle up right next to you!! I love that Casper is such a cuddle boy.

 

Getting Libby out of pain and managing it can be done, and she will continue to have good days.

[Guest mhalton]

Thank you all very much for your support. Libby is now on a combo of Tramadol, Gabapentin, Peroxicam and Pepsid AC. With the first dose of Gabapentin she turned into a zombie (wouldn't even get up to potty) so we scaled back on that and have had much better results. She still limps and occasionally cries out when she adjusts her position so we know she still has pain but it's no where near as bad as it was. I'll be honest, I also think she knows that she has us trained that every time she cries out one of us comes running to comfort her. I'm NOT saying that what she's experiencing isn't real but she's always been a super smart cookie so I wonder if she isn't playing it up a little sometimes. Regardless, Libby gets what Libby wants until it's time for her journey home!

[Guest fastcasper]

They all play us!! And we love it!!

[dex95lucy]

Michelle I was pleasantly surprised when I saw how spunky Libby was when we arrived for her photo shoot tonight. She is just the prettiest and sweetest little girl. For some reason, I felt a warm bond with her from the first time I saw her, and I used to tell others how adorable she was. I hope you will be satisfied with the pictures, that along with the tears they will bring you smiles. I realize that tonight was probably my last time to see her and my heart is aching, my eyes are leaking. She seems fairly comfortable on the meds at this time. Give her a gentle hug from me. I hope she enjoys the chicken.

sue

[Charlies_Dad]

Mhalton, I am sorry to read of Libby's diagnosis. I'll second what Jennifer (JJNg) stated about NGAP's position on Osteo. There are some palliative care protocols that can provide your pup with a decent quality of life for a while and it depends on many factors how a pup will fare with the protocol and their lifespan. Too many of us here have faced what you are and we are here to help support you in any way we can.

 

Tara, I'm glad Treetop is okay and still around. More good thoughts for your boy.

 

Good thoughts for Lana and Casper. I hope Lana's vet visit goes well.

[Guest fastcasper]

Casper had his 2nd round of Doxo yesterday. He was there over 9 hours! The oncology department is vey busy(unfortunately). He did MUCH better with the administering of the drug, just very tired last night. Today he greeted me at the door barking and carrying on. He ate his breakfast a little later this morning but was hungry. He has his chest x-rays in 2 weeks to see if there are any changes in his lung tumors. I am thankful he will be his adorable self for the holidays, and my mom will see him in good spirits. It will be the last time she will see him which is hard to think about. But today and this week he is GOOD!!!

[a_daerr]

But today and this week he is GOOD!!!

 

I was thinking about Casper yesterday. Glad to hear his chemo went well.

[MP_the4pack]

Good Boy Casper. You make sure you have a very merry Christmas.

[Guest fastcasper]

I got my Christmas wish. Casper will be here to share it with me.

[Guest mhalton]

Michelle I was pleasantly surprised when I saw how spunky Libby was when we arrived for her photo shoot tonight. She is just the prettiest and sweetest little girl. For some reason, I felt a warm bond with her from the first time I saw her, and I used to tell others how adorable she was. I hope you will be satisfied with the pictures, that along with the tears they will bring you smiles. I realize that tonight was probably my last time to see her and my heart is aching, my eyes are leaking. She seems fairly comfortable on the meds at this time. Give her a gentle hug from me. I hope she enjoys the chicken.

sue

 

Thanks so much "Auntie Sue"! Maxine was wonderful with Libby and I am very excited to see the outcome of her portrait. Libby is really enjoying her chicken. Her bowls end up cleaner than the people bowls out of the diswasher, lol!

 

Last night Lori visited with Argus and Micah. Libby and Micah seem to have a bond and we saw them giving "kissy faces" a couple times through the evening and Libby wanted to lay wherever Micah was. It was beautiful and heart-breaking all at the same time.