No Hugs? :(

[Guest cvdrumsta]

Hi everyone.

 

Moon continues to settle in beautifully. She spends most of these hot days migrating from one cushion to another trying to get comfy.

 

Now that her hookworms and other more serious problems are under control, I have the luxury of worrying about more minor things.

 

I know that during their racing lives, greyhounds are not accustomed to being disturbed while they're asleep. Moon doesn't mind being petted in any form or fashion, but if I just rest a hand on her when she's lying down (even fully conscious), she growls. I don't think she's in pain anywhere, but I can't understand why a moving hand is wonderful and a still hand elicits a growl. (Note: she doesn't growl if a still hand is on her head, only on her body)

 

Normally I wouldn't mind, but sometimes I have nowhere else to put my arm if she chooses a certain position in bed with me, and it's of course disconcerting for me when I'm trying to get comfortable and my sweet little houndie suddenly starts growling.

 

Any ideas what might be going on? I've only had her for nine weeks, might this change in the future?

 

Thanks everyone.

[mychip1]

As much as I love sleeping with my hounds, some are space aggressive in their sleep....I would hate to see her do anything that she doesn't really mean to do. JJ used to do it a bit, but seems to have moved past it. I could crawl on Dustin and he wouldn't care. EZ on.y used tour owl if someone got near his paws, but that went away. My Jack on the other hand had a true sleep disorder and would all out attack from a deep sleep whether being touched or not.

 

Yours sounds like my JJ...it may not be serious, but be careful about taking the chance.

[winbo]

This is exactly our ivy. After 6 years she is pretty much over it. She will sprawl over dh and I but god forbid you should let your arm or hand rest on her! She has gone further than a warning growl but over the years she is getting more tolerant. We consider it just one more of her quirks.

[MaryJane]

Muzzle her at night when she is on the bed with you. She still doesn't know you, why take a risk.

[Brandiandwe]

She's still pretty new to be on your bed with you.... This isn't a judgement as both of mine stay on my bed and Brandi loves sleeping beside me when she can. However this didn't happen for a couple of months. I'm still cautios about touching them when they're in their beds, awake or asleep. They also know that when on my furniture, no growling whatsoever is allowed because its mine.

 

Maybe think about backing off for a while in terms of furniture privileges and no sleeping together for a little longer.

[mychip1]

Muzzle her at night when she is on the bed with you. She still doesn't know you, why take a risk.

Nothing wrong with this option!

[JAJ2010]

Any growling gets you evicted from *my* bed! Don't mind sharing but I will not be talked back to in it. LOL I would make her sleep in a dog bed and try again in a few months. She's probably still settling and figuring stuff out. She doesn't want to be cuddled with but petting is fine... It can be rude in the doggy world to not respect space. Which is what your doing when draping an arm over her. Which doesn't excuse the growling! But that's how she sees things.

 

Sunshine has always crashed like a puppy. You can put stuff under her lips while she sleeps. Rainy was very touchy when she first arrived. Would snark at anyone who touched her. In the past 5 years she's gotten better and will even occasionally cuddle in bed. Right after I got divorced both dogs slept in the king size bed with me. Even then there plenty of room for no one to be touching.

Just please be careful. A growl is a warning that can escalate to a bite. We don't want to see any pup get a bite history :-( also be careful to not correct the growling response out of her. She may stop growling and go right to a bite.

[sarabz]

This article gets posted frequently - it may help you understand a bit, too. We've had our Bella for more than 3 years and she is loving, affectionate, snuggly and not protective of her space. But, wake her up by touching her and she'll come up growling and snapping.

 

I noted that you said that your girl is fully awake when this happens so a couple of thoughts (I'm not an expert )

* Are you absolutely sure she's awake? I've learned that greys have a remarkable ability to be sound asleep with their eyes open

* If she absolutely is awake, then personally I'd make her get off the sofa. It's *my* sofa, not hers - we had this with Bella early on, too.

 

No idea why she's fine with petting versus a body part resting on her :

 

********************************************

 

Here's Kathleen Gilley's great article about the new greyhound... sadly, we've lost Kathleen, but her advice/insight is still pertinent...

Kathleen Gilley:

This breed has never been asked to do anything for itself, make any decisions or answer any questions. It has been waited on, paw and tail. The only prohibition in a racing Greyhound's life is not to get into a fight----------------or eat certain stuff in the turn out pen.

Let us review a little. From weaning until you go away for schooling, at probably a year and a half, you eat, grow and run around with your siblings. When you go away to begin your racing career, you get your own "apartment," in a large housing development. No one is allowed in your bed but you, and when you are in there, no one can touch you, without plenty of warning.

Someone hears a vehicle drive up, or the kennel door being unlocked. The light switches are flipped on. The loud mouths in residence, and there always are some, begin to bark or howl. You are wide awake by the time the human opens your door to turn you out. A Greyhound has never been touched while he was asleep. You eat when you are fed, usually on a strict schedule. No one asks if you are hungry or what you want to eat. You are never told not to eat any food within your reach. No one ever touches your bowl while you are eating. You are not to be disturbed because it is important you clean your plate.

You are not asked if you have to "go outside." You are placed in turn out pen and it isn't long before you get the idea of what you are supposed to do while you are out there. Unless you really get out of hand, you may chase, rough house and put your feet on everyone and everything else. The only humans you know are the "waiters" who feed you, and the "restroom attendants" who turn you out to go to the bathroom. Respect people? Surely you jest.

No one comes into or goes out of your kennel without your knowledge. You are all seeing; all knowing. There are no surprises, day in and day out. The only thing it is ever hoped you will do is win, place or show, and that you don't have much control over. It is in your blood, it is in your heart, it is in your fate-- or it is not.

And when it is not, then suddenly you are expected to be a civilized person in a fur coat. But people don't realize you may not even speak English. Some of you don't even know your names, because you didn't need to. You were not asked or told to do anything as an individual; you were always part of the "condo association?; the sorority or fraternity and everyone did everything together, as a group or pack. The only time you did anything as an individual is when you schooled or raced, and even then, You Were Not Alone.

Suddenly, he is expected to behave himself in places he's never been taught how to act. He is expected to take responsibility for saying when he needs to go outside, to come when he is called, not to get on some or all of the furniture, and to not eat food off counters and tables. He is dropped in a world that is not his, and totally without warning, at that.

Almost everything he does is wrong. Suddenly he is a minority. Now he is just a pet. He is unemployed, in a place where people expect him to know the rules and the schedule, even when there aren't any. (How many times have you heard someone say, He won't tell "me when he has to go out. What kind of schedule is that?) Have you heard the joke about the dog who says "My name is No-No Bad " Dog. What's yours? To me that is not even funny. All the "protective barriers are gone. There is no more warning before something happens. There is no more strength in numbers. He wakes up with a monster human face two inches from his. (With some people's breath, this could scare Godzilla.) Why should he not, believe that this someone won't eat him for lunch? (I really do have to ask you ladies to consider how you would react if someone you barely knew crawled up on you while you were asleep?) No, I will not ask for any male input.

Now he is left alone, for the first time in his life, in a strange place, with no idea of what will happen or how long it will be before someone comes to him again. If he is not crated, he may go through walls, windows or over fences, desperately seeking something familiar, something with which to reconnect his life. If he does get free, he will find the familiarity, within himself: the adrenaline high, the wind in his ears, the blood pulsing and racing though his heart once again--until he crashes into a car.

Often, the first contact with his new family is punishment, something he's never had before, something he doesn't understand now, especially in the middle of the rest of the chaos. And worst of all, what are the most common human reactions to misbehavior? We live in a violent society, where the answer to any irritation is a slap, punch, kick, whip, or rub your nose in it. Under these circumstances, sometimes I think any successful adoption is a miracle.

He is, in effect, expected to have all the manners of at least a six-year old child. But, how many of you would leave an unfamiliar six-year old human alone and loose in your home for hours at a time and not expect to find who knows what when you got back? Consider that if you did, you could be brought up on charges of child abuse, neglect and endangerment. Yet, people do this to Greyhounds and this is often the reason for so many returns.

How many dogs have been returned because they did not know how to tell the adopter when they had to go out? How many for jumping on people, getting on furniture, counter surfing, separation anxiety, or defensive actions due to being startled or hurt (aka growling or biting)? So, let's understand: Sometimes it is the dog's fault" he cannot fit in. He is not equipped "with the social skills of a six-year old human. But you can help him.

Edited July 3, 2013 by sarabz

[racindog]

Muzzle her at night when she is on the bed with you. She still doesn't know you, why take a risk.

That's what I was going to suggest. With a new dog -you really just never know for sure. Better safe than sorry. Then you can find out if you really have an issue or not, safely. Bobber will growl and snark like she is going to kill anybody dog or human that gets too close to her when she is in "bed" or resting BUT she NEVER strikes and will actually get up and move if the "offender" is not scared away. Minny would attack in his sleep. The only way to find out safely what you've got is to muzzle them and see. I never muzzle Bobber because despite the ferocious noise I know she won't bite. On the other hand Minny had to be muzzled. BTW he didn't care- he loved us and didn't want to hurt us anyway. I'm quite certain he didn't realize and mean to bite in those instances when that happened and he was happy to wear his muzzie to insure everyone's safety. Really.

[Guest zombrie]

IMHO sleeping on the bed/couch is a privilege. If a dog growls/snaps they are not allowed up, period. Sleeping on the dog beds won't kill them. You don't need to worry about getting bitten, and the dog is more comfortable in her own space.

Edited July 3, 2013 by zombrie

[Guest psdirector]

We have had Mr. Tibbs and Hutch since March. From Day 1 you could touch, hold, pet, lay with Tibbs on his bed and he doesn't care. He actually loves to be loved on when he's on his bed. He is also the more laid back of the two brothers (MUCH more laid back). Hutch will let you pet his head when he is on his bed, but touching his body or getting too close to his back end while he is laying down is a no-no. He will either get up and move quickly out of the way or he will growl. A couple of weeks ago DH patted him on his rump while he was laying down and he growled and moved. I don't know what possessed him, but DH touched him on his rump AGAIN a few minutes later and Hutch made it quite clear that he did NOT want to be touched there when he is laying down by snarling quite nastily (you can touch him anywhere when he is standing). DH was surprised and I pointed out that Hutch had given him a clear warning the first time and that we need to respect that he doesn't like to be touched when he is laying down. Hutch will occasionally wake up at night and snarl at his brother in the next dog bed if he feels he's too close. I can't fault him for it - I like my space at night as well.

[mom2four]

Our Diego is our growler. If he is lying down- don't touch him, that's his rule. We just follow it He's been with us for 5 years, it has not changed. For this reason he sleeps in his crate at night, right beside the bed. It's normal for him, he does not mind. Just letting you know that the sleep aggression may not go away. None of our dogs sleep on the bed at night so I can't address that.

[Guest cvdrumsta]

Thanks everyone.

 

I worry it may be too late to kick her off the couch or bed when she growls as she is now very accustomed to being up there. I'm also frankly not sure how I'd remove her--do I use a stern voice? Physically shove her off? I don't think the latter would work as she really makes herself quite a load.

 

I'll look into a muzzle just so I can safely test whether she's bluffing or actually means business.

[Batmom]

I would teach her an "Off!" command. Takes a handful of treats and a couple minutes, a couple times a day, probably 1 day and she'll get it. If she growls, or if she's in a position where you don't feel comfortable sharing, "Off!" and "Good dog!"

[Guest cvdrumsta]

I would teach her an "Off!" command. Takes a handful of treats and a couple minutes, a couple times a day, probably 1 day and she'll get it. If she growls, or if she's in a position where you don't feel comfortable sharing, "Off!" and "Good dog!"

 

I'll take a stab at that, Batmom, and revisit the growling issue when we have it down pat. Thanks for the tip.

[3greytjoys]

A general suggested guideline for new adopters is dogs stay off human furniture for at least the first six months. This helps give a new dog time to watch/observe and learn about living inside a home with people (vs. in racing kennels). This is an important time for the hound to slowly begin to "build trust" towards new humans. It also gives humans time to watch their dog's unique personality begin to blossom (and respect the dog's individual comfort level).

 

I agree with several good options to teach hound to get off furniture with high value treat rewards.

First: Show hound treat, and happily call dog "off" furniture while you are in same room.

Second option: Happily call hound from another room to offer treats (e.g., call dog into kitchen).

Third: Attach a leash to happily and gently guide dog off human furniture. (Be aware that some dogs won't allow a leash being clipped on when they are on human furniture. If that's the case, just show the hound the leash combined with high value treats, possibly adding a brief game with a favorite toy, or go back to second option.)

 

Important: Please do not reprimand for growling. If some dogs are taught that their only way of communicating their personal boundaries to humans is punishable, some dogs learn to skip a warning growl, and go directly to a bite.

 

If your hound keeps trying to get back up on your bed. A wire crate is an excellent tool for a hound to sleep comfortably by their owner's bed during these early months. Every hound's time to develop "trust" in their human family is different. IMO, our patience is more than worth the wait, considering the wonderful years of life with our new family member.

[macoduck]

Ditto the previous posts about using a leash to remove your dog from the bed. Do not pull on the collar.

 

She is giving you warning signals. Please heed them before you get bit. They don't need a hug and cuddle from us to know that they are loved. Hugs and cuddles are for humans as it is our way of expressing how much we care to other humans.

Dogs will understand love in other ways - food, play, positive interactions, rewards for good behavior. Hugging this early into her adoption could set her up for failure. While certainly not in the case of every greyhound adopted, some of them need their space.

We got Gracie at 2. It was years before her sleep aggression and dislike for cuddles went away.

[JenniferS]

Some dogs will just never be cuddly. I had Quiet Man for 7 years and could never trust sleeping with him at all. He slept in his dog bed, and in the morning we had special time where i would lie on the floor & pet his chest for a few minutes before we got up to start our day. Some dogs are just space aggressive, some are sleep aggressive, and some have no aggression. Out of 5 greyhounds, I have only had one that I would trust completely to sleep with me without growling. My advice, is to keep her off the be for now. Better to be safe than sorry.

[Guest Clawsandpaws]

I would definitely train off. If you really want her to be in the bed with you, then maybe try and train her to sleep in a certain area? Such as a corner away from your feet. What worked for me was putting Dudleys dog bed that he loves on top of our bed in a certain area. We would practice "off" and "up" in that specific area until he wouldn't need the bed there as a marker.

[Guest Celestrina]

Thanks everyone.

 

I worry it may be too late to kick her off the couch or bed when she growls as she is now very accustomed to being up there. I'm also frankly not sure how I'd remove her--do I use a stern voice? Physically shove her off? I don't think the latter would work as she really makes herself quite a load.

 

I'll look into a muzzle just so I can safely test whether she's bluffing or actually means business.

Its never too late. Follow the suggestions others have given you. Your pup has to understand it is your bed, your rules. You've only had two months together. That isn't long at all. Edited July 4, 2013 by Celestrina

[a_daerr]

It's funny- this is Truman to a T. Moving hand? Perfect and wonderful. Resting hand? Immediate growl. He's been extensively trained that a growl warrants bed eviction, but it doesn't matter. He'll actually evict himself after the fact- I don't even have to say 'off' anymore. We've worked on it for over a year, and I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that I can't rest my hands (or any other body part) on him. Something about it just freaks him out and upsets him. And I'm big on training. I really tried. This is the one thing I've had little progress with in the training department. If you find a method that works, let me know!

[Guest kkaiser104]

I agree with the above--if Teddi growls he's off the furniture immediately. I won't risk a bite with him. The best way to get your pup off of the furniture is to lure them off, either with a treat, toy, or by picking up the leash (this used to work for Teddi before he learned off). While they're getting down, use your word for off (off, down, whichever). Then treat them for getting off. Also remember that dogs are creatures who live in the moment, after they're off the bed/couch let the incident go--your dog isn't going to remember why you're upset with her.

 

Furniture rights are a privilege IMO. Teddi knows to respect me when I tell him to get down and you need to do the same thing with your girl. Part of building trust is building respect.

[tra708]

I've had Lola for 3 years. At first, she freaked out when you tried to pet her too much, and forget hugging! If she was on a bed and you got on too, she would leave. Gradually she has learned to love lots of pets, kisses, and even hugs!! and she sleeps around with everybody! just be patient. it may take a long time, and it is worth the wait when they start to love you.