If You Can Spare A Good Thought For Nube.it's Osteo.xrays

[TheFullHouse]

Still holding him in my prayers. Hope he gets some pain relief soon.

[gryhnd_adoptee]

hi guys,

 

thanks for checking in. I just fed him about a 1/2 hour ago and he's sleeping now, which yesterday he was extremely restless, panting and in pain. I upped his gabapentin to 200mg 3 x day (who was that lady that said she wouldn't self-medicate her dog???? ) and gave him a single 50mg tramadol at about 12:40 (he'll get the other 2 and the 2 Gab's at 1:30pm), hoping the overlay might help some. Not sure if that's the best thing, hoping it will help bridge the dose gap but worried will lessen the regular dose and cause issues that way, I don't know.

 

he was SO bad yesterday, when he got like that last Monday and Tuesday (before we changed the Gab dose and frequency) he at least settled back down by 2:15pm or so -- yesterday, he was panting and in pain past 7pm! he never slept, just lay there panting or kept getting up and being restless.

 

poor guy doesn't get a breakfast tomorrow morning his appt is at 10:20am and they said not to feed him (in case they want to do a procedure). I can't give him his Rimadyl since that has to be taken with food but he can get the Gab's and Tram's, so hopefully that helps enough.

 

I just keep PRAYING that SOMETHING helps, somewhere. It is just too painful to see him only get worse. I don't want to have to have him go under but if they suggest radiation, they'll have to do that but if it helps some.....I don't know.

 

hugs to all.

 

I have been in your shoes and know just how hard this is. I wish we never had to worry about this awful disease anymore with our sweet babies. We chose the same route with our Lulubelle at the time and realized it was all a matter of staying on top of the pain. It took us three different combos of meds before we finally found what worked for her. Now is not the time to worry about how many meds you are putting into your pup...bottem line is pain management before the pain can get a grip. It's easier to stay ahead of it, than to try to quell it once it grabs hold. Our vet explained to us how there would be up days, and down days, with some worse days than others in the down days. It is when there are more downs than ups that a decision needs to be made on quality.

 

I wish you all the strength in the world to get thru this; it is one of the hardest things we have to go thru!

[Guest LindsaySF]

With something like pain, I'd rather err on the side of giving a little extra, versus not giving enough. I agree with the poster above me about staying ahead of the pain. If you find that he is too sedated or wobbly on his feet with the extra pain meds, you can back off the dosage again. Tramadol is pretty fast acting, and you'll see a change within a dose or two I believe. I'm not sure how much Tramadol he is getting, but you can probably increase it. Osteo is said to be extremely painful, so I really would be generous with the pain meds. If your vet won't let you increase the dosage of either for fear of wobbliness, I really would speak to a different vet. The dosages you mentioned are very much on the low side.

 

I remember what you went through with Rainey and her reaction to the seizure medication, but I wanted to reassure you that seizure meds are very different. Phenobarbital especially is known for all sorts of behavioral side effects and personality changes. Tramadol can cause restlessness and agitation in some dogs, but I've used it on a bunch of dogs and never seen that myself. A good test to see if it's pain versus a reaction to Tramadol is to increase the pain meds, if the dog settles, it was pain. Also Gabapentin, while it's a seizure drug in people, according to Sophie's neuro has little anti-seizure success in dogs and is used mostly for pain relief, and the only side effect he's seen is sedation, not the stuff you saw with Rainey with restlessness, being hungry, howling, etc. I don't want you to be afraid of increasing it because of your experience with Rainey, and I'm glad to see that you did increase it. It might take a few days to really kick in though. The Tramadol is faster acting.

 

I hope Nube is feeling better tonight. Good luck at tomorrow's appointment!

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

[Guest cashie]

Good luck tomorrow! Hope you find something that works for poor Nubers!

[Guest hlpnhounds]

They can give the carprofen as an injection of they need to when he goes in for his appt..

I'm glad he's going to be seen tomorrow. I'm hoping his meds are helping him to rest comfortably.

[RaineysMom]

They can give the carprofen as an injection of they need to when he goes in for his appt..

I'm glad he's going to be seen tomorrow. I'm hoping his meds are helping him to rest comfortably.

 

what is carprofen? a pain med?

 

With something like pain, I'd rather err on the side of giving a little extra, versus not giving enough. I agree with the poster above me about staying ahead of the pain. If you find that he is too sedated or wobbly on his feet with the extra pain meds, you can back off the dosage again. Tramadol is pretty fast acting, and you'll see a change within a dose or two I believe. I'm not sure how much Tramadol he is getting, but you can probably increase it. Osteo is said to be extremely painful, so I really would be generous with the pain meds. If your vet won't let you increase the dosage of either for fear of wobbliness, I really would speak to a different vet. The dosages you mentioned are very much on the low side.

 

I remember what you went through with Rainey and her reaction to the seizure medication, but I wanted to reassure you that seizure meds are very different. Phenobarbital especially is known for all sorts of behavioral side effects and personality changes. Tramadol can cause restlessness and agitation in some dogs, but I've used it on a bunch of dogs and never seen that myself. A good test to see if it's pain versus a reaction to Tramadol is to increase the pain meds, if the dog settles, it was pain. Also Gabapentin, while it's a seizure drug in people, according to Sophie's neuro has little anti-seizure success in dogs and is used mostly for pain relief, and the only side effect he's seen is sedation, not the stuff you saw with Rainey with restlessness, being hungry, howling, etc. I don't want you to be afraid of increasing it because of your experience with Rainey, and I'm glad to see that you did increase it. It might take a few days to really kick in though. The Tramadol is faster acting.

 

I hope Nube is feeling better tonight. Good luck at tomorrow's appointment!

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

 

I was more worried with him becoming very wobbly and not the other issues (I think that, with Rainey, was from whatever was wrong with her brain ) -- she was SUPER unsteady (fell down the stairs!) when we put her on both the Keppra and zonisamide, but yes, she also got restless and would walk around in circles or like she didn't know where she was or what she was going. Again, that could have been from whatever was wrong upstairs, we'll never know.

 

thanks for the good thoughts!

[MachosMom]

Sending positive thoughts to you and Nube! Will be checking in for updates tomorrow.

 

And to answer your earlier question to me - yes i suppose Macho is a candidate for amputation. Just after long deliberation and talking with some of our group (who have been amazing), we have opted to go the pain management route. There are moments I second guess it, but then he does something goofy, and I get secure in my decision again.

 

Right now he is resting on his new bed. Well, new to him anyway. I took an old pompasan mattress and put a comforter on it, then some memory foam, and then another comforter. He thinks he has won the lottery!

 

[Guest LindsaySF]

Carprofen = Rimadyl

 

The wobbliness is possible, but every dog reacts differently. Andy was on 300 mg Tramadol and 600 mg Gabapentin and never had any wobbliness or sedation. Someone else posted that their hound was up to 900 mg Gabapentin? If you up the pain meds and Nube gets wobbly you can always decrease them and try something else.

 

How is he doing now? Hope he's feeling better with the extra 50 mg Tramadol on board.

[RaineysMom]

Carprofen = Rimadyl

 

The wobbliness is possible, but every dog reacts differently. Andy was on 300 mg Tramadol and 600 mg Gabapentin and never had any wobbliness or sedation. Someone else posted that their hound was up to 900 mg Gabapentin? If you up the pain meds and Nube gets wobbly you can always decrease them and try something else.

 

How is he doing now? Hope he's feeling better with the extra 50 mg Tramadol on board.

 

ah -- I'll ask about that then. I'd rather he not miss any doses of that.

 

how often did Andy get the tram and gab? Right now we're at 200mg gab 3 x day, tram 150mg 3 x day (but I've given 1 like 1/2 to 1 hour early of dose time, then the other 2 at the regular dose time) and the Rimadyl 75mg 2 x day. I only upped the gabapentin, but he's definitely more comfortable today than yesterday.

[Guest LindsaySF]

Andy got the Gabapentin 200 mg every 8 hours. The vet said we could go up to 300 mg every 8 hours if we needed to. He was getting Tramadol 100 mg every 8 hours. The vet said we could give it as often as every 5-6 hours, and we could also double the dosage (200 mg) if we needed to.

 

After Rogan's toe amps he was getting 100 mg Tramadol every 5 hours at first. The vet I called after I brought him home said I could vary the Tramadol depending on how he acted, when he sat there panting I gave him more even if it was before his next scheduled dose. You can definitely give the Tramadol more frequently than every 8 hours if Nube seems to need that, or one pill a little early, if that seems to be working!

Edited July 24, 2012 by LindsaySF

[RaineysMom]

augh!!!! I am such an idiot.

 

he was good this afternoon (well, not panting or restless like he has been), but since about 5pm has been somewhat restless, and after dinner (6pm) moreso. It was escalating, I took him out to pee hoping that was the issue (he did, but was still restless) so I looked at the clock, saw it was almost 8:30pm, so I thought ok, I'll give him his 9:30pm meds an hour early, if that will help. ( I had already given him a single Tramadol around 5:15pm, hoping to bridge the gap again).

 

IT WAS ONLY 7:30PM!!!! I completely read the clock wrong!

 

so now, he's gotten a total of 4 Tramadol's since 5:15pm and 6 total in the last 6 hours (since the 2 at 1:30pm, and 7 total in the past 7 hours, got a single at 12:30pm as well) and 400mg of gabapentin in the past 6 hours (got 200mg at 1:30pm, and 200mg more at 7:30pm). I really hope that's not an overdose at all? He also got his 75mg Rimadyl at his usual 6pm time.

 

hopefully that's not too much at one time and at the very least, it will be 10 hours until his 5:30am dosing

 

ARGH.

Edited July 25, 2012 by RaineysMom

[Guest patterpaws]

It doesn't sound like too much to me, but I'm not an expert. The vet told us that we could give 4 tramadols all at one time, 2-3 times a day if needed, so sounds like you're in safe parameters. We're also giving 300mg gabapentin a couple times a day... and we're not even dealing with the super painful bone tumor anymore.

 

Thinking of you, and keeping fingers crossed that tomorrow's appointment gives you some relief and guidance! :goodluck

[JJNg]

The wobbliness is possible, but every dog reacts differently. Andy was on 300 mg Tramadol and 600 mg Gabapentin and never had any wobbliness or sedation. Someone else posted that their hound was up to 900 mg Gabapentin?

 

It's pretty common to give 300 mg 3x daily for greyhounds. That's the dose I used for my 57-lb girl when we were dealing with severe, acute pain (not even cancer-related). And since she was in severe pain, I went straight to that dose and didn't start low and work up gradually. She never showed any wobbliness or sedation.

 

so now, he's gotten a total of 4 Tramadol's since 5:15pm and 6 total in the last 6 hours (since the 2 at 1:30pm, and 7 total in the past 7 hours, got a single at 12:30pm as well) and 400mg of gabapentin in the past 6 hours (got 200mg at 1:30pm, and 200mg more at 7:30pm). I really hope that's not an overdose at all? He also got his 75mg Rimadyl at his usual 6pm time.

 

Nube should be fine. At 82 lbs, and based on a dose range of 2-5 mg/kg, his max dose of tramadol is over 175 mg (3.5 tabs) every 6 hours. So you're pretty much right at that high end. Some sources say you can go up to 10 mg/kg in non-responsive dogs, so it's really pretty safe.

 

With gabapentin, using the typical dose range of 5-10 mg/kg, his high end dose would be almost 400 mg every 8 hours. So you definitely haven't overdosed him on either med.

 

Best wishes on your onco consult. Hopefully they can give you some good options.

[MachosMom]

Sending good thoughts for you and Nube today!

[RaineysMom]

I put this in the Osteo V thread but thought I'd post here too

 

well, we got back from the Buffalo Grove specialists a short while ago. Long day for us and even longer for Nube.

 

We consulted with Dr. Feinmehl, who was very nice (actually everyone there was great) and gave us our (non-amp) options. We could do radiation, oral chemo and/or pamidronate injections as well as adding amantadine.

 

We are starting with radiation first then will see what happens, then do chemo and/or pamidronate as well, if it goes well. I thought she was going to start the amantadine too, but it’s not on any of the estimates – we’ll ask next week. The did take a urine sample to test for blastomycosis, which I’m sure it’s not, but it’s best to make sure.

 

They gave Nube the first of 3 radiation treatments today, he is only under for less than an hour – this one took almost 2 hours but the next 2 (next two Wednesdays) will only take an hour each. They said the first one may not show any improvement and in fact, he may be sore on the OTHER leg since they had to manipulate him some He finally got a small lunch about a ½ hour ago and is on his Snuggleball next to Larry. Oh, and we brought Larry with (since we don’t know how he crates by himself) and he GOT ATTACKED by a mastiff!!! he just got a tiny scratch, thank GOD. This guy could have killed him. The dog just walked past Larry, sniffed his butt, then laid into him. Larry is fine and it could have been a lot worse. The owner was very apologetic and I wasn’t a jerk back to him, his dog was in a sling and I’m sure in pain and not himself.

 

So, we’ll see how the next few days go. I want him to feel better but once he does, the chance of the leg breaking is higher since he’ll be up and about more (only potty on leash in the yard – but he gets pretty goofy in the house no matter what we do sometimes).

 

Oh….and if you’re wondering, radiation/chemo/palmidrate = Bruce’s SECOND new truck (Rainey's vet bills were the first ). Geesh. I guess Nube is determined to surpass even Rainey’s total bills. Yikes

 

He’s worth every penny and I’m so grateful we are able to try to help him. I just hope it helps

 

Thanks again for everyone’s concern and prayers for our Nubers. If it’s not too much to ask he sure could use to keep them coming.

 

Hugs to everyone and their hounds.

[mychip1]

Continued prayers.....

[robinw]

You all remain in my thoughts...

[TheFullHouse]

Will definitely keep him in our prayers.

[nancy14]

Still thinking positive thoughts for all of you. I know it's heartbreaking for you.

[Cully]

:bighug Nube, Kim, Bruce, & Larry :bighug

You guys are in my thought & prayers every morning & night.

[juliemac]

thank you for the updates ... prayers continuing to come for all of you. i hope the radiation treatments help Nube, and that Larry doesn't have any more incidents with the other patients at Buffalo Grove.

 

hugs!

[carronstar]

Checking in on Nube this morning. Keeping him, and all of you, in my thoughts and prayers.

[Xan]

Sending buckets and trainloads of good thoughts for you and Nube!

[RaineysMom]

well....my boy is even worse than he was already doing I can tell the left leg is hurting too, from the treatment yesterday. I can only hope that this one is better in a couple days. He can barely get around (hardly could before but now it's worse).

 

he really, really, REALLY needs to show some kind of improvement

 

he did roach for Bruce last night (and of course, to demand belly scritchies!) and for me this morning, so that was good. A little spark of his old self was nice.

[TheFullHouse]

Poor guy. I'm praying for some improvement. This is a hard journey the two of you are taking. Hugs.