Deal Breaker: Destroying Property

[Guest Kona]

I have had my greyhound for about a month. Other than a few accidents in the house and some separation anxiety, we have had no problems. Recently, I came home to find my greyhound had gotten out of her crate and destroyed my entire room. She ate through my bedding and into my brand new mattress. She crewed the ends off of my six month old dresser, ripped open and chewed three boxes with merchandise that was to be mailed back to stores, clawed at the wood around the doors, pulled down curtains and mauled the blinds over my window, had many accidents on the floor, chewed my comforter, and bit/dented the stainless steel door knobs. ALL IN ONE NIGHT! Needless to say, I was shocked (and upset) with the damage. To top it all off there was blood everywhere from the walls to the floor. I never found exactly where she injured herself, but it didn't stop her. More so than the damage to my things, I am worried about her safety. I was fortunate to adopt her from an organization that offered to keep her for a few days while we clear our minds and clean up the mess. I have one week to decide if we want to try again. Of course I am in love with her, and miss her dearly. I can't look at her toys/crate without having a break down. The problem is we are moving into a brand new home in April, and damage like this would be absolutely devastating, as this is our first home together. I don't know if this behavior is typical/fixable, or if she needs 24/7 supervision. We took her to the vet and discussed behavioral therapy several weeks ago, and I did extensive alone training for the month that we spent together. Nothing seemed to help. ANY advice is appreciated. Thank you so much.

[krissy]

No real advice, just lots of sympathy. I would be so upset and frustrated coming home to that. Having to clean it up, having to deal with the financial burden of replacing/fixing things, and all the while wondering how I'm going to help my dog. That's really awful.

 

She's clearly got some very serious separation anxiety. If she hadn't escaped from a crate I would suggest crating. Is it possible to take her to a doggie daycare, or find someone you know who would be willing to take her at least some days to reduce the financial burden of daycare?

 

I'm sure some more experienced people will have better advice for you.

[Batmom]

Was the bedroom door closed?

 

 

 

ETA: I'm heading offline so I'll elaborate. There are many dogs who are dangerous to crate (they try to break out, injuring themselves or worse), and most dogs don't like being behind a closed, solid door. A fair number of such dogs do fine with "free run" of the home.

 

"Free run" in quotes because most people close doors to rooms they don't want the dog in and/or baby gate the dog into a larger, familiar, comfortable area. Here, for example, I gate my "no closed doors" dog into a large room from which he can see the front door, the backdoor, his crated companion, etc. We hang out in that room all the time, so it's comfy and familiar to him.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Batmom

[Guest Kona]

Was the bedroom door closed?

 

Yes, the bedroom door was closed.

[OwnedBySummer]

Was the bedroom door closed?

 

That was my first thought, too.

[Guest Kona]

I would love to let her roam free around the house, but after what happened, I am reluctant to try. Whenever supervised she does very well. I just worry she will panic again and have the whole house to chew on.

[greysmom]

It sounds like she was alone for quite some time. What is her schedule normally??

 

Also, consider that, if you try letting her have house priveledges, it really can't get much worse. I would be more worried about her injuring herself. If you do decide to try it, spend some time *really* dog proofing the area(s) where she will be. Make sure she's good and tired before you leave, and completely pottied out. Leave her with a stuffed Kong or another safe treat to occupy her. Leave a radio or the TV on for some noise in the house.

 

Do a search here for Separation Anxiety threads. We've had some real SA nutheads over the last year or so, and the topic has been thoroughly covered - from alone training to medication intervention.

 

Good luck.

[seeh2o]

My boy, Carl, can't be crated either...when I read your post I was nodding as I've been through much of what you just went through. First thing, get a greyhound muzzle, your group probably has a bunch of them and can either give you one to keep or loan you one until you get one of your own. The muzzle helped Carl tremendously. I was reluctant, as it seemed really cruel to me, but when I put it on him I could visibly see him physically relax. Muzzles are not unfamiliar to them. I did a lot of alone training with him and ultimately had to use medication, clomipramine, to help him relearn how to "be" in his new environment. We also enrolled in an obedience class which helped us bond more and helped him in terms of confidence. When I came home the night of his big disaster I just sat and cried, I did not want to return him, I did not want him to be miserable and I knew that neither of os could continue living like this. I'd never given up on a dog and wasn't about to do so now, but if the combination of meds and training didn't help I was worried about the end result. It can be over come, my boy is living proof. He was on meds for 4 - 5 months, I wish I'd left him on a few months longer, but that's neither here nor there now. He still is muzzled whenever I leave the house. His SA makes appearances from time to time, but nothing like before, it is manageable now. There is hope!

[tydyelady]

We had a crate hater too. When we brought Opie home (it was a Sunday), we had a crate. He hated it, the first night was torture with the crying and whining, even though I slept in the room with him. Second night, same thing, so we let him out and he slept next to our bed on his bed. But, when we went to work, were afraid to leave him out, same fears as you. We crated, and he broke out 3 times, bending bars, scratching himself, bleeding, pooping and peeing in the crate. By that Saturday (6 days later), we had all had enough, and decided to leave him out while we left for 2 hours. He was good as gold, just slept on his beds. We got rid of the crate and never looked back. Some dogs just don't like the confinement, as others above had said. We do babygate off the kitchen and dining rooms, as we have birds in there. But Opie has the run of the rest of the house. He has NEVER touched or destroyed anything, nor pooped or peed in the house. He just hated the crate, and being confined.

Don't necessarily equate destructive crate behavior with how your girl would do on her own not being locked in a crate or bedroom. You might want to give it a try for short periods, like we did, and see how she does.

And as the above poster, if you are still nervous, muzzle her. They are used to wearing muzzles, it is not cruel.

Edited February 23, 2011 by tydyelady

[45MPHK9]

Murray broke out of his crate on the second day we had him. I only crated him because that's what most new GH owners seemed to do. Our adoption group had also recommended crating him. At the time we adopted him he was five and had already had two homes. Once he had free reign of the house he was fine.

 

Months later, during Murray's dental, our vet called. Three of his canine teeth were cracked to the roots and would need to be removed. One of those teeth had an abcess forming. Our vet told us that this was most likely the result of crate chewing in his days before we adopted him at age five. That poor dog had to endure having three of those canine teeth (with their huge roots) pulled out. Just another hazard to be aware of when you crate a dog who does not want (or need in Murray's case) to be crated.

Edited February 23, 2011 by 45MPHK9

[Guest DarkHorse]

I would agree to try without the crate but with the dog in a basket muzzle. Araley can be destructive if she's bored and has chewed on wooden dressers, filing cabinets and even some of my clothes, as well as her own toes. She gets muzzled if she's going to be alone and unsupervised at all. She's not thrilled for the first minute or so of having the muzzle on, but soon forgets. I find that giving her nice thin treats that she can get at with the muzzle on also helps.

[TwiggysMom]

You may know much of this already, but if I were you, I would want to know whether she was fostered and if so, was it with other greyhounds/dogs (probably), or if not fostered - how did she do in a kennel situation. I would assume if she was in a kennel situation and still broke out of her crate & was destructive, they would have informed you of that at least, or would have tried to ensure that her placement would be in a situation where she wouldn't need to be crated.

 

As indicated above, there are many things to try - there are so many threads here on SA, and so many things that have worked (or not) for each individual dog - but as much information as you can get from the group will be very valuable in trying to determine where to start.

 

Best wishes for both of you!

 

(omg, do I have to edit every post I make??)

Edited February 23, 2011 by TwiggysMom

[Guest happygrey]

It sounds like she was alone for quite some time. What is her schedule normally??

 

Also, consider that, if you try letting her have house priveledges, it really can't get much worse. I would be more worried about her injuring herself. If you do decide to try it, spend some time *really* dog proofing the area(s) where she will be. Make sure she's good and tired before you leave, and completely pottied out. Leave her with a stuffed Kong or another safe treat to occupy her. Leave a radio or the TV on for some noise in the house.

 

Do a search here for Separation Anxiety threads. We've had some real SA nutheads over the last year or so, and the topic has been thoroughly covered - from alone training to medication intervention.

 

Good luck.

 

I also wondered how long she was alone. I think a babygated area works better for hounds with SA. You may also want to leave her with a muzzle on to help minimize the chewing she can do. IF she got this upset once in a crate, I would not leave her in it again.

 

We went through SA with one of our hounds and he's much better -- just some occasional whining and barking when we leave. We don't leave him in a crate. He and our other hound are left babygated in a room that's one of the busiest in our house, so they know it well. Since we got him out of the crate when we leave he's actually much calmer when we come home.

 

Good luck with your decision. I'm sure it's very hard.

[Trihounds]

We crated Brucie and then one day, 6 weeks or so after we got him, we found it in another room, completely destroyed. Thankfully, he left the house alone...just wanted out.

 

He had mild SA issues - basically more 'unsettled' than anything else. When we added Bumper, his littermate, 3 weeks later, any hint of an issue disappeared. They were raised with others and love the company. We've always been a one dog house but I can't imagine having only one going forward. And I echo the use of a muzzle right away when she is alone. Good luck - this is likely still workable!

[kudzu]

I would say if you love her & things were good until now that you should give her another try. I agree with others that much of the destruction resulted from being locked in the room. The most destruction I've seen has come from dogs trying to escape. Some feel better after getting out of a crate but others exit the crate only to find themselves still trapped in a room away from the main living area with no view of where you would normally come & go. They then try to exit the room. When unable to do so they redirect this energy to other items. Please remember these are just things, inanimate objects. This is not to downplay the destruction or impact finding such has had on you. They are likely very useful things or may hold great sentimental value. We often appreciate our possessions good looks as well so we do not want them damaged. They are still just things though. This even applies to flooring, trim around doorways & windows as well as the very doors & windows themselves. They are fixable or replaceable. Our dogs are irreplaceable.

 

My first dog, at least first in my adult life that was mine alone, was a Lab mix with SA. I fully admit that I created much of the problems & am not implying you did this. But as an example of her destructive abilities she once ripped most of the arm off a rather sturdy & substantial couch in the time it took me to walk the garbage to the curb. Had I known in the beginning what I would soon be going through I would have returned her. Thankfully I did not. Despite the initial problems that at times seemed insurmountable I kept at it. The worst of it was over in a few months time. My SA dog repaid me for my efforts by becoming as close to perfection as any dog could be. She was with me for ten unbelievably wonderful years. That was decades ago & there was no one helping me. Today we could have skipped so much of the problem. I know you are reading that & thinking you could not possibly get through months of this with your home, possessions & sanity still in tact. Well, you may lose a few things but you can get through with almost everything intact & much of the remaining still serviceable. If you can realize this is a process to be worked through it will help you keep the emotional side in better control. Down the road you will be glad you did.

 

Most Greyhounds do not have SA. However, Greyhounds as well as many, many dogs from shelters have a higher potential to develop SA. We accept that possibility anytime we adopt a dog. If this is something you were unaware of or simply did not fully grasp the difficulty this possibility presented & now feel you are not able or willing to work through the problem then you may be better giving her up. That is not said as a criticism. Until you have come home to find the type of destruction you did I do not think anyone can fully grasp the impact. Go to Netflix & rent Turner & Hooch. You'll feel better.

 

Wishing you the best as you consider the options and make your decision. Remember to do what will be the best in the long run for all parties concerned. I do hope you can take your dog back and make a go of it but understand that sometimes that is not the best option.

[ZoomDoggy]

Am I correctly understanding that you left her overnight crated in your closed bedroom? Has she experienced that before with no problems?

 

If so, what did you do differently this time, if anything?

[Guest Kona]

I am fortunate to have a roommate who works 9-5. I work 7p-7a, so she is usually crated from about midnight until 7:30am when I get home. According to my roommate (who lets her roam in the evenings). she usually cries for a half hour and then goes to sleep. When I come home she is usually laying down and fairly calm. She has bent the bars on the crate in the past, but this is usually during the day when I am running errands or out for a meeting. She has escaped from her crate one other time before this and just laid on my bed, which is why I didn't get too concerned. We have done alone training, and she gets a stuffed kong when she is going to be in there for more than an hour or so. Perhaps we should try just letting her roam.

[seeh2o]

When I did alone training with my boy we must have done it over a thousand times. We did it daily, so much so that I was sick of it and discouraged at times, but that's part of what it took to help him through this. Does your group have a person who specializes in behavior? Maybe they can coach you. The group I volunteer with did that for me, it was really helpful. She spent hours with me on the phone and kept in touch with follow-ups over the phone and email. I still feel like I her, and them, a debt of gratitude.

[Guest d0ggiem0mma]

With how severe she is, I think she will need medication if you are going to work through this. The fact that she was bending bars and had already broken out of the crate before are both signs that she was in severe distress.

 

Once a dog breaks out of a crate, they know it is possible and they just try harder the next time so I would really hesitate to crate her again. You could try putting an extra tall baby gate in the doorway (Carlson makes a good one) or giving her free roam of the house.

 

As for the muzzle... it may keep her from destroying your things, but it won't help her anxiety. She is obviously in a complete panic if she is bending cage bars and destroying your things. All of that stress takes a toll on a dog's heart and general health. Chewing relieves stress, which is one reason SA dogs are so destructive. If you muzzle her, she can't chew things like a kong toy or other safe chew to relieve her stress and keep her mind busy.

 

Do you have a video camera or one you can borrow from a friend? If you're going to try to bring her home again, I would muzzle her if needed and leave for 30 minutes or so but video tape her while you're gone. Then you can watch the tape and see what she's doing. If she's whining, barking, pacing, digging at the door, then you know she's still in a panic even though she's muzzled. At that point you really need to consider SA meds at least temporarily so you can work on behavior modification with her.

 

My whippet Guinness shredded his dog bed, broke out of his crate, chewed my curio cabinet, destroyed a PS3 controller, etc. etc. Then we got him on Clomicalm and gave him free roam of the house. Now he hardly ever chews something he's not supposed to!

[Figma]

Oh, I can certainly understand why you are upset!!!! We had some SA issues with out Grey when we first got him and he did some damage but not to that extent!!! Luckily, he would stay in a crate but he was never in it very long. Eventually, I would shut the doors to the 2 extra bedrooms and bathroom and put an ex-pen across the opening to the living room as he will go in there and mark on the coffee table. That gives him the master bedroom, family room and kitchen. He does get on my bed when I am not home and may make a mess out of it but doesn't tear up anything.

Now, I certainly agree with all the great suggestions from some of the others but I'm kind of on the other end of the thought process here and think this just may not be the right fit *right now* for you and this Greyhound. With a move coming up in the near future, I would worry there will be more activity in your home then moving, adjusting to a new home and environment, etc. If you still wanted to try, perhaps the group you are working with could foster the dog for a while again until you get resettled. Of course, that would also be another disruption to environment, schedules, etc. I just wonder if you are going to be able to find the time and patience to try and work through this then *possibly* have to go through the same issues at the new place.

Just a thought. I am certainly one to try what I can do rectify issues but I would do some serious thinking on this one as to whether this is good for you and, in the long run, good for the dog.

Do I need my flame-retardant jacket on?

[JAJ2010]

Maybe try muzzling her and letting her have free run of the house?

[Hubcitypam]

She has bent the bars on the crate in the past, but this is usually during the day when I am running errands or out for a meeting. She has escaped from her crate one other time before this and just laid on my bed, which is why I didn't get too concerned.

Well, there is your answer, isn't it? If she got out of the crate and was just fine why keep putting her in the crate she hates?

 

If you don't want to give her free roam you could try muzzling and baby gating in kitchen if possible. To echo others, closed doors are often a big stress factor.

[Guest AliceMyPrincess]

My Grey has SA. She can escape from any crate- she escaped from 3 different kinds so far. So I started leaving her loose with my male Husky mix and she does fine. I have two baby gates up so they have free run of the living room, kitchen, and office but they cannot get upstairs. I do crate my Dobeman when I leave because she loves to play and will get the other two dogs very worked up.

The Grey does cry when I leave for about 10 minutes or so - this according to my upstairs neighbor. What helped her was leaving for short amounts of time then increasing it gradually. And I always try to leave her after she has had a walk. Could your roomate help you out and walk her at night before she goes to bed. Also I would not crate her again I think a long walk then a muzzle and let her hang out in your room with a baby gate up and not the door closed. Your Grey will eventually get better- it took a few months to get her crying down to 10 minutes from when I leave the house. Good Luck and don't give up on your Grey.

 

 

[Rickiesmom]

Just a couple of quick thoughts in addition to the good ideas above (forgive me if these have been mentioned - skimmed through the posts quite quickly):

 

- if your hound is escaping or trying very hard to escape from her crate she could injure herself very badly, even strangle; gating her into a comfortable (for her) room is a much better idea

 

- stuffing a kong with goodies and giving it before you go might help take her mind off your departure

[Guest Liz_in_PA]

We never crated Dash because the kennel told us that he would whine incessantly unless he was in a crate in the office with them. Fast forward to GT where I connected with someone from the group that transferred him to my group---he bounced from a house where he chewed up a door frame. So this is another story of a dog that needs free roaming and no crating.

Do you have much to lose if you let her have free access with a muzzle?