Osteo Thread

[Guest roselle]

Just got back from the oncologist for James' 3rd Caroplatin treatment. Xrays show mets in his lungs. We opted to bring him home, dicontinue treatment and spoil him rotten with Mcdonalds cheeseburgers and ice cream. We feel good that we gave it our best shot but of course incredibly sad. James is 9 years old today. What a birthday present. He has been with us for 7 of those years and we have cherished everyday. I vowed to not cry until he has left us since it does no good for anyone. Thanks for all your thoughts during this time.

 

I'm so sorry for James and your family. Your plan to love and feed and love and feed sounds good for James. If you need to cry, come here. this is a safe place for you to let go. James is so lucky to have had such a loving mommy. I'll keep you all in my prayers.

Hugs to you, Roselle and Gracy

[brindlebaby]

I'm so devastated to hear this about James. I've been so worried about Callie all week getting her chest x-ray today before her 4th chemo treatment only to find out that they weren't even going to do an x-ray until next treatment (in 4 weeks). Can they still do the chemo if there are mets, would that shrink them?? I have never asked because I didn't want to think about it.

 

I hope you have much more quality time with you James. James and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers.

 

 

Just got back from the oncologist for James' 3rd Caroplatin treatment. Xrays show mets in his lungs. We opted to bring him home, dicontinue treatment and spoil him rotten with Mcdonalds cheeseburgers and ice cream. We feel good that we gave it our best shot but of course incredibly sad. James is 9 years old today. What a birthday present. He has been with us for 7 of those years and we have cherished everyday. I vowed to not cry until he has left us since it does no good for anyone. Thanks for all your thoughts during this time.

 

 

I was supposed to meet my Herman (husband) at the hospital, he was leaving from work with Callie and I was leaving from work. The appointment was at 1030am. I called about 945 home and cell and no answer, wanted to tell him that I put a new collar/leash with tags out for Callie and to bring quilt for her to lay on. I went ahead and left work and hoped he'd be at the hospital waiting. Almost at the hospital he calls and said he just got back from running and I should of reminded him. (he made the appointment!) Anyway, went and pleaded our case with the receptionist if there was anyway we could still keep the appointment. So we didn't get in until 1145am, but everything went well.

 

The oncologist said this is her last treatment and I told her (after research) that we would like to do two more treatments and she said she thinks that is a good idea. They did bloodwork today, but won't do a chest x-ray until next time (in 4 weeks).

 

I was so relieved that today went fairly well and Callie was able to get treatment, but hearing the news about James really hit hard.

[Guest juliagulia630]

Thanks for all your thoughts. I hate to be a debbie downer since everyone has been doing so well. They saw a small "blip" before our last treatment. The oncologist said not to worry but that we would able to tell at this chest xray. I haven't posted anything since then because I didn't want to jinx it. But the "blip" got bigger and now classified as a tumor. James has been getting up the past two nights with some disorientation that lasts 30 minutes. He has done that 4 times in his life but none since his amputation. So we thought it was due to the cancer in his system. I mentioned it to our oncologist and she thought he may be up feeling changes in his body since greyhounds are so intuitive. Not sure if that is related since I think he was just feeling my stress about the upcoming chest xray.

I can't help but wonder what would of happened if we hadn't done the amputation and chemo. I haven't questioned our decision to be aggressive until today. I am feeling really guilty that I put him through all of that for such a short outcome. This no crying thing is not working out too well.....

[Batmom]

Don't look back. It's hard not to, but don't. You love your boy, and you've done the best anybody could for him.

 

Big hugs.

[brindlebaby]

Do not feel guilty. How could you of known? At the time, you did what you could to give James the best chance at fighting this #$@%# monster. You made the decision you did because of your love for James. How can you second guess that?

 

 

I can't help but wonder what would of happened if we hadn't done the amputation and chemo. I haven't questioned our decision to be aggressive until today. I am feeling really guilty that I put him through all of that for such a short outcome. This no crying thing is not working out too well.....

[greysmom]

I'm so sorry about James. I can't even tell you. But don't start second guessing - it does no good at this point. You did what you thought best at the time with the info you had. Likely, the outlook wouldn't be any different. Cancer just sucks. And there are no guarantees that anything we do will help our precious kids. You're a great Mom and don't let aybody - even yourself - tell you differently.

 

Love him, love him, love him and give him every good thing in life.

[NeylasMom]

Don't look back. It's hard not to, but don't. You love your boy, and you've done the best anybody could for him.

 

You removed his pain for a good long time. Trust me, had you gone the other road, there would have been equal opportunity for second guessing. You do the best you can with the information you have and how well you know your dog and you move forward. The only other option is to stand still and that does nothing for him.

[Guest roselle]

Thanks for all your thoughts. I hate to be a debbie downer since everyone has been doing so well. They saw a small "blip" before our last treatment. The oncologist said not to worry but that we would able to tell at this chest xray. I haven't posted anything since then because I didn't want to jinx it. But the "blip" got bigger and now classified as a tumor. James has been getting up the past two nights with some disorientation that lasts 30 minutes. He has done that 4 times in his life but none since his amputation. So we thought it was due to the cancer in his system. I mentioned it to our oncologist and she thought he may be up feeling changes in his body since greyhounds are so intuitive. Not sure if that is related since I think he was just feeling my stress about the upcoming chest xray.

I can't help but wonder what would of happened if we hadn't done the amputation and chemo. I haven't questioned our decision to be aggressive until today. I am feeling really guilty that I put him through all of that for such a short outcome. This no crying thing is not working out too well.....

 

The crying thing is not working out because you need to grieve. It's all part of the grieving thing. Start by breaking glass (outside, or somewhere safe). I find that good crystal on concrete is the best. Cry and break at the same time. Do this in the middle of the night, so you don't get caught. Whatever you need to do to get through this. Loosing a pet is the same as loosing a family member. I can't even imagine loosing Gracy although I know I will. We had to put our 18 y/o Lab Howard to sleep one month ago. I cried for a week just to make the appointment. I sobbed after but felt it was the right thing for him and this helped. I had to cry, I knew I had to cry and when I was done, I was able to get on with my living. I hope you go out tonight after a glass of wine and smash a crystal bowl or a few glasses and cry your eyes out and get up in the morning and spend time loving your boy.

[Guest azlorenz]

Just got back from the oncologist for James' 3rd Caroplatin treatment. Xrays show mets in his lungs. We opted to bring him home, dicontinue treatment and spoil him rotten with Mcdonalds cheeseburgers and ice cream. We feel good that we gave it our best shot but of course incredibly sad. James is 9 years old today. What a birthday present. He has been with us for 7 of those years and we have cherished everyday. I vowed to not cry until he has left us since it does no good for anyone. Thanks for all your thoughts during this time.

 

It was right before Flash's 4th Carboplatin treatment when the dreaded xray showed mets in his lungs as well. We did the same thing you are. We brought him home, spoiled him rotten and second guessed ourselves. I am so sorry you are now going through this as well. I will tell you that I wouldn't trade the add'l 135 days amputation/chemo gave us with Flash for anything in the world. Love him with all your heart.

[RedFawnMom]

Oh Julia, I am so, so sorry. You still did the right thing; amputating the leg relieves them of so much pain. And while it's not easy for any of them, if I recall correctly, James adjusted really well, really quickly. And Jen is right - you would have second guessed yourself if you had chosen not to go the amp route. We do the best we can.

 

I wish you had gotten better news. Spoil that boy rotten.

[Charlies_Dad]

Julia, that just breaks my heart. I am so very sorry that James has mets. Second guessing is easy, too easy when having to make life changing decisions. You did what was best for James, you took away the pain, you have given him more time pain free. No pup will ask any more of you and he will always love you for it. I understand your decision to spoil him rotten, he so deserves it like every pup who fights this battle. The only suggestion I will throw out there is the possibility of Palladia. There are no guarantees but it has sometimes shown to help reduce/control mets for a while and may just give you more time with him. Your call, just throwing it out there as I know another pup who was just diagnosed with mets and his parents have opted to try Palladia (we have Charlie on it and Joejoe is on it as well). Please give James a huge hug from me.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Charlies_Dad

[NeylasMom]

Thanks for all your thoughts. I hate to be a debbie downer since everyone has been doing so well. They saw a small "blip" before our last treatment. The oncologist said not to worry but that we would able to tell at this chest xray. I haven't posted anything since then because I didn't want to jinx it. But the "blip" got bigger and now classified as a tumor. James has been getting up the past two nights with some disorientation that lasts 30 minutes. He has done that 4 times in his life but none since his amputation. So we thought it was due to the cancer in his system. I mentioned it to our oncologist and she thought he may be up feeling changes in his body since greyhounds are so intuitive. Not sure if that is related since I think he was just feeling my stress about the upcoming chest xray.

I can't help but wonder what would of happened if we hadn't done the amputation and chemo. I haven't questioned our decision to be aggressive until today. I am feeling really guilty that I put him through all of that for such a short outcome. This no crying thing is not working out too well.....

 

The crying thing is not working out because you need to grieve. It's all part of the grieving thing. Start by breaking glass (outside, or somewhere safe). I find that good crystal on concrete is the best. Cry and break at the same time. Do this in the middle of the night, so you don't get caught. Whatever you need to do to get through this. Loosing a pet is the same as loosing a family member. I can't even imagine loosing Gracy although I know I will. We had to put our 18 y/o Lab Howard to sleep one month ago. I cried for a week just to make the appointment. I sobbed after but felt it was the right thing for him and this helped. I had to cry, I knew I had to cry and when I was done, I was able to get on with my living. I hope you go out tonight after a glass of wine and smash a crystal bowl or a few glasses and cry your eyes out and get up in the morning and spend time loving your boy.

I missed that last sentence in your original post - just want to add to what Roselle said. I understand not wanting to cry around James right now, but you do need to grieve. That was probably the part I expected the least - with a disease like this, you grieve a lot before your pup is even gone. You grieve when you get the diagnosis because you know it's a death sentence, then you grieve when the disease starts to progress more quickly or the lung mets show up, because you know it means the time is approaching, and then you grieve when it comes down to the bitter end and you have to make a decision to make the dreaded appointment. And then comes the grief when your pup is finally gone.

 

Make your time left with James positive for him, spoil him, play with him, give him extra special treats and love, take photos and video of him, but do give yourself a break and make time - even if it has to be private - to deal with your emotions. Come here if you need to, we understand.

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

Just got back from the oncologist for James' 3rd Caroplatin treatment. Xrays show mets in his lungs. We opted to bring him home, dicontinue treatment and spoil him rotten with Mcdonalds cheeseburgers and ice cream. We feel good that we gave it our best shot but of course incredibly sad. James is 9 years old today. What a birthday present. He has been with us for 7 of those years and we have cherished everyday. I vowed to not cry until he has left us since it does no good for anyone. Thanks for all your thoughts during this time.

I'm so sorry to hear about James. That happened to our Alex too. Spoil him rotten.

[greysmom]

UPDATE:

Had Dude's appointment today to talk with his oncologist about what happens now. He's doing really really well and Dr Melanie is pleased with his response to the chemo. He's holding his weight and has good energy, and, providing his bloodwork comes back good, she will order his at-home low dose metronomic chemo.

 

Cytoxin (the chemo), and piroxicam (an nsaid), plus the supplement artemesinin. The Cytoxin is done at a compounding pharmacy and sent to us, probably next week (about $30 a month). OSU said to get the Artemesinin from a place called Holley Pharmaceuticals in the web (100 tablets for $42,50). The nsaid shouldn't be that expensive either, so we should be set for the long term.

 

We discussed Palladia, since I know Charlie and some others have/are using it, and it is prohibitively expensive at the moment. Around $800 a month. We just can't do that, as much as we might like to, even if it was indicated for him at his point in his treatment.

 

I'm also exploring massage therapy and a neat new swim therapy place that's not too far from us. Just to kee him loose and everything in the best working order possible.

 

I hope there's good news other than Dude this week. Please know we are thinking of all of you and so appreciate your support and good thoughts in return.

 

Hugs to all!

Chris and Dude

[Charlies_Dad]

Chris,

 

Good to hear Dude is doing well! The Cytoxin is certainly cheaper than Palladia but $800??? We are paying about $350/mth so something seems a little funny. It's from Pfizer if I recall correctly so what's up with the difference? We are also using Artemisinin and we obtain ours from Holly Pharmaceuticals.

 

I hope all the other pups are doing well.

[krissn333]

 

I'm also exploring massage therapy and a neat new swim therapy place that's not too far from us. Just to keep him loose and everything in the best working order possible.

 

 

Swim therapy will be GREAT for him! It'll give his joints a rest from holding his own weight, but allow him to get some great exercise...I hope he will enjoy it.

 

I took Sutra swimming a few times in our neighbor's pool to try to keep muscle up in his osteo leg...he really seemed to enjoy that weightless feeling. I had to be in the pool with him to hold him up, but it was completely worth it (and my arms got a workout too )

[greysmom]

Thanks Kyle!

 

Ordered from Holley Pharm for the Artemesinin. Not sure what's up with the Palladia, but it doesn't really matter as $350 is still a bit out of our comfort zone. We were lucky we were able to afford the chemo treatments, and would have really struggled without the free carbo from OSU. I HATE that I have to consider the cost doing treatments for him - HATEHATEHATE - but we have four other pups that have to eat too, not to mention DH and I! Our onco said we could do it if we wanted, but it was still fairly experimental and mostly used after mets have been discovered. We may get there yet, but not right now.

[queenwinniesmom]

Don't look back. It's hard not to, but don't. You love your boy, and you've done the best anybody could for him.

 

You removed his pain for a good long time. Trust me, had you gone the other road, there would have been equal opportunity for second guessing. You do the best you can with the information you have and how well you know your dog and you move forward. The only other option is to stand still and that does nothing for him.

 

These comments are exactly right, simply and beautifully said. I'm so sorry about James. I know how devastating it is to have your hopes raised, then dashed. We were so lucky with Winnie---3 1/2 years!---but not lucky with Patsy, who had lymphoma. We had to stop mid-chemo when her central nervous system was affected. This is what I say about cancer---it's a crapshoot. Sometimes we beat the monster, sometimes we give it a valiant fight, and sometimes everything we do is just not enough. You ARE doing the best thing for him---making him safe and happy, sure of your love, and finding joy in each day together. They live in the moment, you know, not aware of sadness to come. So yes, grieve for yourself, but try not to let him see you cry. Sending gentle hugs to you both.

 

Chris, I'm so glad that Dude continues to do well. It would be great if you could find a place for him to swim. I remember how much Winslow loved it, and it really seemed to help. Hopefully, I'll get to see him in a little over a week. Would he mind if I made a fool out of myself over him?

 

P.S. Chris knows this, but I'm coming to Portland on the 20th for a memorial service for my wonderful stepfather. It will be a real short trip, but I have Sunday free till my plane leaves at 10:20 P.M., so I'm hoping to get to meet the fearless Pirate in canine. Oh, and his Mom too.

[Charlies_Dad]

 

I'm also exploring massage therapy and a neat new swim therapy place that's not too far from us. Just to keep him loose and everything in the best working order possible.

 

 

Swim therapy will be GREAT for him! It'll give his joints a rest from holding his own weight, but allow him to get some great exercise...I hope he will enjoy it.

 

I took Sutra swimming a few times in our neighbor's pool to try to keep muscle up in his osteo leg...he really seemed to enjoy that weightless feeling. I had to be in the pool with him to hold him up, but it was completely worth it (and my arms got a workout too )

 

If I could get Charlie to like water, I would build him a pool next week but alas he does not like water no matter the form (rain, sleet or snow). When we had him on the beaches in Virginia and Maine he would make sure his feeties wouldn't even get wet. I think swimming is great way to exercise a tripod and would do it if I had a cooperative pup...but I think I'll keep him anyways.

[krissn333]

Isn't it so funny how some of them take to the water so easily, while others act like it will eat them alive? I had Ace in Benton Harbor, MI the last time they did the GLGG (2003 I think, maybe 2004). She LOVED the water. My friend's dog ran away from it like it was the plague

[Guest MorganKonaAlex]

I tried the metronomic protocol with Alex after his lung mets were found. It was very hard on his stomach and we had to discontinue it after a short period. I've had cytoxan myself. Just FYI - it causes a metallic taste in the mouth. In addition, it can cause bladder irritation and they recommend lots of water consumption to flush after treatment.

[greysmom]

Dr Melanie mentioned the cytoxan side effects. I'm planning on getting him some broth to encouage him to drink more often.

 

We are really looking forward to seeing Nancy next week!

 

Unfortunately, Dude's WBC was too low to start the protocol, so we will recheck his bloodwork in a week and see if he's rebounded enough. It's at 1189 and it just needs to be higher. POOP!

 

We're definitely going to do the massage therapy - he LOVES to be touchd and petted so this should be right up his alley. We're not so sure about the swim therapy. He will stand in the wading pools in the yard, but that's about it. Though he did like to be in the ocean when we were at the beach. So not sure how it will work. There's an assstant swimming with him (and we can as well), and he'll have a float vest on at first. I think he would like it if he doesn't freak himself out!

[krissn333]

I think you should definitely give it a try

 

Hoping that white count rebounds by next week

[RedFawnMom]

We're definitely going to do the massage therapy - he LOVES to be touchd and petted so this should be right up his alley. We're not so sure about the swim therapy. He will stand in the wading pools in the yard, but that's about it. Though he did like to be in the ocean when we were at the beach. So not sure how it will work. There's an assstant swimming with him (and we can as well), and he'll have a float vest on at first. I think he would like it if he doesn't freak himself out!

 

For the massage therapy, are you taking him to someone for that, or are you doing/learning it yourself? Lucy would be in heaven if I could find a professional doggy masseuse for her.

[Charlies_Dad]

Just thought I would post about the supplements that we give Charlie plus other things as I have been asked in the past. While making the pups breaky this morning, I figured why not take a pic as that would be easier.

 

He gets the majority of these at breaky and he gets a second round of salmon oil, Ester-C & L-Glutamine at dinner. The Artemisin we are cycling every 7 days and the Lecithin and Bone Meal Powder he has always been given prior to his diagnosis. He also gets sprinkled over his breaky, tumeric, cumin, ginger and cayenne powders (all the pups get this).

 

We also use a lot of herbal treatments and below is an example of two infusions, one for breaky and the other for dinnertime. The dry herbal is included with his cottage cheese and flax oil that he gets nightly.

 

The other herbs are included in his food and they include parsley, thyme, rosemary and oregano.