Osteo Thread

[greysmom]

Hi Corinne! Good to hear Curtis is doing well.

 

I'm not panicking. Well, maybe a little anxiety attack. Come and talk me off the wall.

 

I was away yesterday and DH had "Dude duty." There was some sort of incident going up the stairs - Dude fell or tripped and DH had to help him the rest of the way up. Since then he's just not been "right." Nothing is specifically wrong - he's not in obvious pain, no whining or wincing, he goes up and down the stairs OK (we've put his harness back on and are helping him though), is getting around in the yard and going potty fine, eating and drinking OK. He is sort of collapsing on his bak leg sometimes - like he's tired - and he doesn't seem to be his energetic self.

 

I gave him a pain pill last night, but in the abscence of obvious pain symptoms, I'm hesitant to give him more. He's sleeping now, his normal morning activity, and seems fin. But......

 

Please help me not be such a worry wart!

[ChiliDog]

Chris and for Dude

[Charlies_Dad]

Chris, perhaps Dude sprained/pulled/bruised something when he had his mishap? Also I have found that once Charlie has had an incident like sliding on one of the small areas of floor not covered, he goes into panic mode after that. He has even bowled me over once because he was in such a panic, I happened to be a speed bump in the way. I understand him being nervous but it changes depending on how he feels, what time of day it is, if the sky is blue...you get the picture. Sometimes I think my boy is but I love the lout!

[MP_the4pack]

I'm sorry you had to join this post Corinne.

 

I had a front leg amp last year.(well she actually had the amp Oct 09 and went to the Bridge last year). But I just want to give you encouragement. She was 12. While this awful disease did strike another leg, she had a good 6 months pain free and she was able to do almost anything. However I did restrict her stair usage. I built a ramp for her.

 

The first two weeks are the hardest, but then it seems like overnight, they are fine. Good luck with Curtis.

[greysmom]

Thanks for the support!

 

Dude is acting much better as the day goes on, so maybe I AM just a worry wart! My next big worry is his chest x-rays at his fourth chemo on Wednesday. Results may determine if we decide to pay for one or two more Carboplatin treatments beyond the four provided by OSU.

[joejoesmom]

Joey's 9 month lung x-ray is clear!!!!!!! He is his happy and goofy self -- now if only those nasty thunderstorms would go away.

 

Corinne, Joe had a front leg amputation due to osteo on July 28, 2010. He was one of those that took longer to recover. He spent a total of 8 days in the hospital due to some complications (he started breaking down muscle tissue and excreting it through his urine so needed some special treatments -- this is an oversimplification but I guess accurate enough). He also didn't start returning to his old self until about 4 weeks after amputation. It was about 6 weeks after that he first started to think about playing. He really didn't return completely to his normal goofy self until he was done with the IV chemo, but I would say he was happy from about 4 weeks post-amp onward.

 

Now he enjoys life every moment of the day, although he can't walk or run for as long. His "hopping" takes more energy than a 4 legged walk. However, he managed to catch a squirrel this past winter (and played keep away from his mom) and is almost as fast running in my yard as the 4-legged greys. He still tosses and pounces on his squeaky toys with joyful abandon.

 

The first two weeks home is really emotionally hard. You will likely question whether you did the right thing. This is normal. I can tell you that he will return to his normal self. It might be 2 weeks or it might by 6 weeks, but it will happen.

 

Jane

[greysmom]

YEAH JOE!!!!!

 

[Guest juliagulia630]

Congrats Joe!! That is wonderful news!!

 

So glad Dude is behaving himself. No more scaring your mother, Dude!!

[Guest RICHandJUDE]

This is a continuation of a thread that was started by a few people whose pups were diagnosed around the same time in July of 2010. The thread has grown to include numerous other folks whose pups were diagnosed later and we wanted to create a new thread where everyone would feel welcome and where you could easily locate some core information. You do not have to have a pup that currently has osteo to join in this thread - feel free to stop by if you've ever lost a pup to osteo or other cancer, would like to offer support to those currently dealing with this disease, would like to prepare yourself for the possibility of dealing with this, or if your pup has been diagnosed recently. We've even had a person or two join in whose pups were diagnosed with other forms of cancer. Basically, anyone is welcome although we'd prefer there be no reason to have to welcome anyone or for this thread to exist at all.

 

For those who have recently had a pup diagnosed with osteo, here is some information to hopefully get you started:

 

Bone Cancer Dogs site - An excellent place to start to get general information about osteo, treatment options, etc.

Journal article on pain mgt - Technically an article on using radiation for palliative (pain management) care, but includes a good overview of the

types of bone cancer pain and the various ways to treat it including medications, radiation, and IV pamidronate

Dog Cancer Blog - Blog from Dr. Dressler, a vet who has dedicated himself to cancer treatment in dogs - includes lots of useful information via blog posts, as well as a link

to purchase his book (which covers all aspects of cancer care, both holistic and traditional) in a downloadable format.

 

The original osteo thread, with 60 pages of useful information and support.

 

For those considering amputation, BigOrangeDog's blog about what to expect.

 

Yahoo groups where you can go for information and support:

 

Dog Bone Cancer Group - not greyhound specific, but a good source of information and support specific to osteosarcoma

Circle of Grey - a greyhound specific support group for owners of pups dealing with all kinds of health issues

Artemisinin and Cancer - for those who would like to pursue artemisinin as part of their treatment regimen, neither greyhound nor osteo specific

 

The information from Jane on contacting or seeking treatment/drugs from OSU:

 

The email or phone consult is free, however a few people have been told they must sign up for the website ($50) and submit the request that way. Dr. Couto tells me that this is not true. However, if you are a member of their website, please submit your request that way because it will automate things and make record keeping for them easier. Certain chemo drugs are free; you would need to pay to have them administered.

 

Greyhound Health and Wellness Program

Ohio State University College of Veterinary Medicine

601 Vernon Tharp Street

Columbus, Ohio 43210

Phone: (614) 247-6757 or (614) 247-8490

Email: greyosu@osu.edu

Website: http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/GHWP.htm (registration and fee now required to get full access to this site)

 

This email goes to the team. If Dr. Couto is traveling, you may get a quicker answer from one of his team members. Drs. Marin and Zaldivar typically respond to greyhound owners. The consult is free but if you can afford to support the program please do so. You can sign up for full access to the website ($99 per calendar year) or donate through the giving page on the website. If you decide to donate, you can double your money by giving through the Greyhound Project. They will match the funds that you donate. Just go to this website and scroll down to the appropriate donation button: http://www.adopt-a-greyhound.org/donate.shtml.

 

Dr. Couto's direct email is: couto.1@osu.edu. His phone number is also 614-247-6757. If he is in town, he typically returns emails in the early hours of the morning.

 

You should know that (in my humble opinion) they need more staff. Unfortunately finances do not permit it at this time. They do 20 to 30 greyhound consults a day along with all of their "in canine" patients. Depending on their workload there may be a wait for the consultation. If you are contacting them on an emergency basis, please let them know.

 

If you want to make an appointment to be seen in person/canine, you can call the main number to set up a date/time. The main number for the veterinary hospital is 614-292-3551.

 

If you decide to visit OSU please contact me. I may be able to put you up in a local home, provide moral support, or just help with logistics: Finewhipador-drool@yahoo.com

 

If you wish to help further osteosarcoma research, 2 labs that are collecting samples and have specifically requested greyhound samples:

 

Modiano Lab - Need tissue from a biopsy and blood; will send a collection kit and a prepaid return mailer; also accepting samples for hemangiosarcoma and lyphoma

Website: http://www.modianolab.org/studyInfo/studyInfo_index.shtml

Contact person: Mitzi, 612-626-6890, lewel001@umn.edu

 

Broad Institute - Blood samples only, may be able to help with shipping costs, but they prefer you cover them

Website: http://www.broadinstitute.org/science/projects/mammals-models/dog/disease-research/sending-samples

Contact info: dog-info@broadinstitute.org, FAX: (617) 324-2722

 

Both labs require signed consent forms and samples must be shipped overnight.

 

And last, but certainly not least, a remembrance of all of the pups lost in the first thread:

Sherman

John

Chase (lymphoma)

Anubis

Sirocco

Puck

Jasmine

Rivie

Seymour

Abby

Bing

Rose

Freddy

Scoop-Dog

Danny

Bay

Whizzer

Rippa

Flash

Gypsy

Neyla

Toby

Arathorn

 

And those that are still fighting:

Charlie

Gracy

Joe

Tatum

 

Santa

Porter

Thor

Winston

 

If there is anyone that I've overlooked, please let me know and I will update. We haven't had updates on the last 4 pups in a while - I hope they are doing well. Also, if anyone has any links they feel are crucial, PM me and I can add them.

Santa was diagnosed with osteo on 9/24/2010. His femur broke as thay were x-raying him. He had his left-rear leg amputated om 9/27. He came through the surgery with flying colors and had NO problems. He has not lost even 1 pound since his surgery. He has had no side-effects with the chemo. In December we had his lungs and chest x-rayed and all was still clear. We are scheduled to have his lungs and chest x-rayed again next week. Hopefully all will still be clear. The way he runs around the house and outside ( he has two 'sisters'- a greyhound and a beagle- at home)one would never know that he is a tripod. We cherish every moment with him. We are still taking 'one day at a time'. (Santa is a greyhound that was rescued from Guam.)

[Guest azlorenz]

So sorry everyone, Gracy had a chest x-ray and it's not cancer. I had her examined Friday with the good news then had a friends wedding this weekend with lots of friends here so double celebrations. Kyile you were right it was most likely a cookie irritating her throat. This really scared me and thought of loosing her is now in the forefront of my mind. These dogs are so lovable and the thought of not having her in my life hurts so much. At least I had Howard for 18 years,Gracy only 7. I don't know how anyone loosing two can take it, but we're not given the choice are we? Well, she's good for now so I'll love her every day. You all go give your hound an extra kiss tonight.

 

Thank goodness! So very happy to hear Gracy is doing good.

 

I will tell you that you will know "the cough" when you hear it. I can't describe it but I knew exactly what it was the first time Flash did it and believe me, your heart sinks to your ankles. Enjoy every minute, every second.

Edited April 15, 2011 by azlorenz

[brindlebaby]

I haven’t been on in awhile and wanted to catch up with everyone. I so sad to hear about the loss of Howard and Tiny. I’m confident they are watching over their families from above.

 

I’m happy to hear Joe, Gracy, Charlie, Lucy and Dude are doing well. (Please forgive me if I’ve forgotten anyone.)

 

I'm so sorry to hear that Greta and Curtis have osteo. I’m sorry you had to join this thread, but glad you found this support. I know it’s really helped me!

 

My Callie had her right front leg amputated January 13, 2011 (after breaking the night of Jan. 10). She was in the hospital a total of 4 nights and 5 days after amputation. We saw her the second day and she was so out of it she just stared straight ahead, but by the 5th day, she was ready to come home. She broke her leg on a Monday evening and didn’t eat again until the next Monday evening once she got home from the hospital. We got an air mattress for her to put in the living room, but she got up that night and took herself to her own bed in our bedroom. Callie turned 12 a month and a half after her surgery.

 

Callie is doing pretty well. She had her third chemo last Friday with a normal chest x-ray!! (waiting for those results are the ABSOLUTE WORST, I work myself up so much I could throw up!) She is scheduled for her 4th treatment May 6.

 

We too are wondering about doing 6 treatments. The oncologist said that she usually does four, but isn’t opposed to giving Callie six, especially since she has handled them so well. I want to give her the best chance possible, even if we have to pay for the last two treatments. (Did someone mention that OSU will only provide 4 treatments?)

 

Regarding the tick/flea treatments while on chemo… I’m not sure. We took our GSD Sammie to the vet on Wednesday evening for her shots and Callie came along to visit since her regular vet hasn’t seen her since she had her amp. We got flea/tick meds for Sam and Pixie (our other grey), but our vet said we better not give it to Callie right now. (I guess I can also with the oncologist – she’s at another hospital.)

 

Oh, almost forgot! Callie has always had a scab where her leg was… it didn’t dawn on me to ask why she still has a scab after 3 months. The oncologist said she still had a staple there! She said it wasn’t all the way in, but probably was a little irritating to Callie. The site looks 100% better! All her hair has grown back from the surgery, it just seems finer and a little lighter… her skin is really flaking there though. Is that from the chemo?

 

I’m going to try and keep more active… was off work one week sick and thought I was better, but woke up three mornings dizzy. Actually drove to work (just tried not to change lanes), but by Thursday was vomiting and holding onto the walls when I walked. Had a doctor’s appointment Friday morning the same time as Callie’s second chemo (so I missed it going with her ). I’m all better now, just a little behind. (well more than usual )

[Charlies_Dad]

I had a quick question for those of you going through chemo. I wanted to start up some of James' flea/tick preventative again. Would that be ok during chemo? Are you guys doing any joint replacement or vitamins that would be safe during this time? I know we have to stay away from antioxidants...

Thanks!

 

I am pretty sure you do NOT want to be giving flea/tick prevention during chemo. Ask your vet but I'm on side of not adding anything else to their bodies while going though chemo and I know my vet concurred with this.

 

 

Kim, great to hear that Callie is doing well!

Edited April 16, 2011 by Charlies_Dad

[Batmom]

Logically, you would want to give flea, tick and heartworm prevention during chemo if at no other time. Can you imagine the impact of an infestation on a dog with a suppressed immune system? Ai yi yi ...... The flea/tick topicals aren't even absorbed into the dog's bloodstream, thus no interaction with chemotherapy at all.

[joejoesmom]

I had a quick question for those of you going through chemo. I wanted to start up some of James' flea/tick preventative again. Would that be ok during chemo? Are you guys doing any joint replacement or vitamins that would be safe during this time? I know we have to stay away from antioxidants...

Thanks!

 

I am pretty sure you do NOT want to be giving flea/tick prevention during chemo. Ask your vet but I'm on side of not adding anything else to their bodies while going though chemo and I know my vet concurred with this.

 

 

Kim, great to hear that Callie is doing well!

 

OSU has told me to use both Frontline and Heartguard on Joe (osteo). They have also told me to use my Frontline and Interceptor on Twister (lymphoma). The difference in the heartworm treatment is just that this was what I previously had each of them on. It isn't a specific recommendation from OSU as to which type of heartworm or flea/tick to put your cancer dog on. These were just the meds that I typically use.

 

I am not to use any supplements on Joe as he continues on the Palladia metronomic protocol.

 

It is okay for me to continue using glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM on Twister with her chemo for Lymphoma.

 

Just to be clear, I just asked them about these specific medications for my dogs, not dogs with cancer in general. It is always best to check with your oncologist.

 

Edited to add:

 

Heartworm is common where I live. Tick borne diseases are not as common but are around.

Edited April 16, 2011 by joejoesmom

[Charlies_Dad]

Logically, you would want to give flea, tick and heartworm prevention during chemo if at no other time. Can you imagine the impact of an infestation on a dog with a suppressed immune system? Ai yi yi ...... The flea/tick topicals aren't even absorbed into the dog's bloodstream, thus no interaction with chemotherapy at all.

 

I respectively disagree. I do not like applying flea and tick medicine to my pups at any time and definitely not when doing chemo. We also live in a area that ticks are not a big concern. Heartworm is a different matter though and I would agree this I would give. Bottom line is, if you have a good vet you trust, get their opinion.

Edited April 16, 2011 by Charlies_Dad

[Batmom]

I guess I'm not understanding what you disagree with.

 

The biochemistry and mode of operation of these products is well known.

 

I can't imagine subjecting a dog with a suppressed immune system to fleas, tick disease, or heartworm. The latter two would be a death sentence in that context. For a dog with a chemo-lowered white count, flea dermatitis could also turn into a life-threatening secondary infection.

[greysmom]

Just a little milestone for us today. Dude is 3 months post-amp and is doing good!

 

Wednesday we'll see for sure when they do his chest x-rays, but we're hoping for the best! Thank you to everyone here for the supoort and good thoughts! We've learned a lot and really appreciated everything!

 

Chris and Dude

Edited April 17, 2011 by greysmom

[Guest corinnewynne]

My husband and I are so pleased with Curtis' progress, and I wanted to share it with all of you who are so encouraging, as well as enlightening with so much good information for us. It's been 5 days since Curtis' surgery to amputate his right front leg. He's been getting up and lying down without too much difficulty, using the ramp to get outside and inside, and Friday, decided to tackle the two sets of steps up to the deck in the back of the house. I had to assist with a hand on the harness, and some encouragement, but he did it! (It was his idea, not mine!) Today was the best so far. We went to our favorite place to walk Curtis and Sandy, his littermate and best buddy ( btw what a joyful reunion when we returned from the hospital!). It is so beautiful here today after yesterday's storms, we were just going to walk around the yard, but Curtis led us straight to the car so we drove over to the bike trail near our home. He's been a little stubborn about doing much walking at home, but here, he almost seemed his old self, sniffing everything, peeing and all the rest. We didn't go far, of course, since he's still getting used to all the hopping, but he was happy!

 

My biggest concern right now is the occasional cries of pain - sometimes when he's changed position, but sometimes, when he's just at rest. I asked about "phantom pain" but the doctor said she thought it was more of a myth than reality. But he certainly seems to be in pain when this happens - and he's still taking the meds we came home with from the hospital. We comfort him and now are applying moist heat to the area, hoping that will help with the healing. We used a cold compress the 1st days, and have now switched to the heat. Just wondering if anyone else had to deal with this.

 

And a last comment - the doctor told us to use the frontline and heartgard - to keep up that schedule. We haven't started chemo yet, so I will double-check, but I believe she meant then too.

Corinne

[Batmom]

I think phantom pain is real. Could also be some fear/surprise as well. I would expect those moments to diminish over the next few weeks. Hugs and hopes your boy continues to do well.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Corinne, if the yelping continues when Curtis changes position--or he just thinks about changing position--ask your vet about the possibility that Curtis is having some spinal problem that could use a chiropractor's help. Sam recently had some issues like that, and we did spinal x-rays to rule out injury or disk issues; once we got the all-clear, Sam had two chiropractor sessions and feels much better. But he was having some spinal issues, so that trying to sit up when he'd been lying flat on his side was painful enough to produce a yelp. And sometimes he'd move very slightly, feel the beginning of a twinge, and yelp when he anticipated things would get worse. (The vet said something about the memory of previous pain being more powerful than the experience of current pain. I summed it up as, "Greyhounds are wusses" and the vet agreed.) Anyway, in Curtis's case, if he's adjusting his movements to compensate for the missing leg, he could have crimped a vertebral space so that an adjustment would be useful.

 

But no chiropractor visits without x-rays first. It's vital to be sure there's not a spinal injury that a chiropractor's adjustment could make worse.

 

PS: If the vet okays it with the rest of Curtis's drug protocol, Robaxin (methocarbamol) is a muscle relaxer that helps with pain like this.

PSS: I'll reserve comment on your vet thinking phantom pain is a myth. It's nice that she didn't just write the pain off as phantom pain she couldn't do anything about; but if it's not phantom pain, it's real pain--and did she look for a cause?

[Guest corinnewynne]

He does have a problem with hardened disks - I think that's what the vet called it when she saw his ct scan done to look for cancer - I guess that's another thing to worry about.

Thanks for the reminder - hoping it's not going to have to require more drugs or treatment, but if it continues, we'll have to find out.

Corinne

[brindlebaby]

Chris, that's awesome news about Dude!!!

 

So happy to hear a good update for Curtis too!!! I hope the yelping is nothing serious and goes away quickly.

[greysmom]

OK. Wish us luck. Dude's last (probably) chemo and chest xray is tomorrow (Wednesday). I'm so nervous! I just want my boy to be all right.

[brindlebaby]

You have our wishes, prayers, crossed fingers, paws, tails and eyes that everything goes greyt!! :clover I'll be checking in at work tomorrow for any word.

 

Callie has one more chemo on May 6th. We haven't decided if we are going to do the extra two or not. Does anyone know if there is there any benefit or danger of doing 6 treatments of the carbo instead of the four?

 

oxoxo to Dude!!

 

 

OK. Wish us luck. Dude's last (probably) chemo and chest xray is tomorrow (Wednesday). I'm so nervous! I just want my boy to be all right.

[Guest roselle]

Just a little milestone for us today. Dude is 3 months post-amp and is doing good!

 

Wednesday we'll see for sure when they do his chest x-rays, but we're hoping for the best! Thank you to everyone here for the supoort and good thoughts! We've learned a lot and really appreciated everything!

 

Chris and Dude

you rock Dude