Osteo Thread

[greysmom]

Dude did great with his chemo yesterday! So far he's only had one bout of mystery whining (last night). He'll just cry like he's in pain for about 5 seconds and then he's fine. I thought it was gas or something after his first chemo, but now I'm not so sure. His Oncologist doesn't know what it could be either. It's hard to pin down since he's only been doing this for the two or three days following chemo treatments.

Morgan had on/off whining for a few months after amputation and through chemo. The Vet thought it might be phantom pain and we put him on gabapentin. I can't say if it helped or not since it was so sporatic. After a few months, they went away.

 

Phantom pain would be my first thought as well. The only thing is that it only happens in the two or thee days following chemo. And actually this time (his second treatment) he's only done it once. He's just a weirdo! He will eat, but only plain dry kibble when I feed it to him by hand. He won't eat out of his bowl in the kitchen. He gets a pass for a couple more days!

 

 

Hugs for you and your family Jen

[Guest azlorenz]

Joe, Charlie and Gracy, is that it from the summer diagnosis? I'm so happy to hear Joe is doing to well. Charlie is amazing flying like a bat all over that beautiful property with that silly fish in his mouth. And I thought Charlie was so macho man. Gracy proved to my delight that she is becoming her old self. She got my steak off my plate while I wasn't looking. I was so happy that I pretended not to notice and let her lick the plate clean. To all of you out there who have pups not doing well I read everyone of your posts and my heart breaks. When you loose the battle I cry with you and then I kiss Gracy 100 times for another day with her.

 

Roselle,

 

And give her another for me to make it 101 times. Even though I don't post often I'm here and with you all in spirit every step of the way, trying to move forward. Enjoy every minute because there is never enough time. Hugs to all my friends from the 7.5 club. You all are the best.

 

AND HAPPY BIRTHDAY JOE!!!!

 

Another birthday here. Today is Neyla's birthday. She would have been 12. I had been doing so much better the last few weeks. Not so much since last night. I miss her so much.

 

 

Jen, these special days are very hard. I so wish Neyla was here for her 12th. I am sure there is a huge party over the bridge and she's opening the boxes of treats in her own special way. And she will be thinking of you.

 

 

Exactly what Kyle said. I'm sure the 7.5 club is throwing a very special birthday party for Neyla today and inviting everyone.

Edited March 12, 2011 by azlorenz

[RedFawnMom]

I am happy to report that Lucy has been doing much better over the past few days. Her personality is coming back and the seroma is slowly improving, as is the bruising. Her platelets came back up but the WBC dropped again, but she was able to get her second chemo treatment today. Her energy level has been better the past few days - she's been following me around the house a bit, and this morning, my husband saw her pick up a toy and squeak it and toss it around! She started to squat with it in a sort of Sphinx position and then fell over to the side. He said she was totally fine, not hurt or scared, it was just funny that she was so into the toy that she totally forgot about not being equally balanced anymore. It was the first time she's played with a toy since the surgery. I was so shocked when he told me! AND, yesterday, she stayed at my mom's house while while DH and I were at work, and she followed my mom down the basement stairs! She wasn't able to go back up, so it was very lucky that it happens to be a walk-out basement, so my mom was able to let her out and walk her all the way around the house to get back to the main level.

 

AND...we slept upstairs last night for the first time in over a month! She tried to go up and got about half way before she froze and shook like a leaf, poor girl. So my husband carried her up and then she came down on her own this morning. That will be our new routine - we're all just over sleeping in the family room. She seemed very happy to be back into her routine of sleeping next to our bed.

 

So, my Lucy is coming back, slowly but surely. I just hope that today's chemo doesn't set her back too far in terms of energy level/mood.

 

Thank you for all of the advice and support. It was really helpful to be reminded that not all dogs recover in the same way or at the same time. I had to take a few days off from being here but am catching up now. How is everyone today?

[Guest juliagulia630]

Wanted to post here since we got our official diagnosis of Osteosarcoma. Dr Couto thought for sure he had hemangiosarcoma but according to the path report (which Dr Couto spoke to them twice since the results came in) they are certain he has osteosarcoma. We are 2 1/2 hours from OSU but are planning to get his sutures out and his first chemo there next week. From that point on, I was hoping to do the chemo at our vet here. I know the chemo schedule is 5 treatments every 2 weeks. What kind of side effects should I be preparing for?

Also, I wanted to mention that I read all 27 pages of posts and really hate this disease. My heart goes out to everyone who is dealing with this and to those who have lost their babies.

[greysmom]

YEAH LUCY!!!!!!

 

That's awesome! So glad she's bouncing back! She'll learn how to do the stairs on her own in time if you let her. It's super scary and Dude needed a boost under his butt a few times, but he's a pro now. He has to get his momentum exactly right - not too fast and not too slow - to get up the flight. If I'm downstairs, he comes and gets me to supervise him going up! Today, I was upstairs putting some clothes away and forgot the baby gate at the bottom and he came up all on his own just PERFECT! I was soooooooo proud of my boy!

 

He seems to be bouncing back a bit faster from his Wednesday chemo. The first time he was pretty lethargic and nauseus for four or five days - mostly having trouble eating meals. This time he seems to be mostly back to normal tonight, just two days later. Breakfast is the big test so we'll see how he does tomorrow. He's back to being a sassy pants tonight and had a sort of a zoomie session in the yard this afternoon, which is a big indicator his energy level is back to neary normal.

 

Not that it's good that James is joining us here, but you and he are very welcome! Dude's schedule is chemo every three weeks though I know it varies with the type of chemo drugs and how the dog reacts.

 

Hugs to all!

[Guest roselle]

Wanted to post here since we got our official diagnosis of Osteosarcoma. Dr Couto thought for sure he had hemangiosarcoma but according to the path report (which Dr Couto spoke to them twice since the results came in) they are certain he has osteosarcoma. We are 2 1/2 hours from OSU but are planning to get his sutures out and his first chemo there next week. From that point on, I was hoping to do the chemo at our vet here. I know the chemo schedule is 5 treatments every 2 weeks. What kind of side effects should I be preparing for?

Also, I wanted to mention that I read all 27 pages of posts and really hate this disease. My heart goes out to everyone who is dealing with this and to those who have lost their babies.

 

I'm so sorry you're joining our group. When Gracy was diagnosed last july I was a mess. I would be in the market and start crying at times I couldn't get my words out. This group was a god send and I relied heavily one in it. We started chemo about 3 weeks after the amp. Gracy had carboplatin given 6 times 3 weeks apart but she always had a low blood count at 3 weeks so we did it every 4 weeks. She finished chemo one month ago and she is her old self. What we experienced during chemo was after she came home she would sleep the rest of the day and all night. She usually wouldn't eat that night. By the next day she was fine. She had runny poop at 10 days post treatment and that lasted a week. From the first month on she got a med for runny poop on the 4th. day post tx. and no more runny poop. Thats it as my 5 y/o granddaughter would say (easy peasy) I would not worry about the side effects, this chemo is not at the same doses that humans get. Good luck to you and give your girl a big hug. Roselle and Gracy

[joejoesmom]

Wanted to post here since we got our official diagnosis of Osteosarcoma. Dr Couto thought for sure he had hemangiosarcoma but according to the path report (which Dr Couto spoke to them twice since the results came in) they are certain he has osteosarcoma. We are 2 1/2 hours from OSU but are planning to get his sutures out and his first chemo there next week. From that point on, I was hoping to do the chemo at our vet here. I know the chemo schedule is 5 treatments every 2 weeks. What kind of side effects should I be preparing for?

Also, I wanted to mention that I read all 27 pages of posts and really hate this disease. My heart goes out to everyone who is dealing with this and to those who have lost their babies.

I am so sorry that it is osteo. Did you talk to OSU about using Suramin and doxorubicin together? I know they have had trouble getting doxorubicin. I don't know if suramin can be used with carboplatin. For Joe, OSU gave Suramin and then 4 hours later gave doxorubicin. They believe the suramin enhances the ability of doxo to kill cancer cells (I don't really know the whole story). I know that they can not ship suramin out of state. In fact, they may not be able to ship it anywhere. If that is the case, then you would need to come to OSU for each treatment. Joe had a total of 5 treatments, 2 weeks apart.

 

After the IV chemo was over, Joe was able to get into a study that provides Palladia at no charge for 6 months. This is included with cytoxan and artemisinin in a metronomic protocol. A metronomic protocol is a combination of low dose chemo agents (typically given on alternate days) given to control the spread of cancer, not totally kill it. As such it is typically well tolerated. If you do the Palladia protocol (i.e. if you get into the study), you need to have bloodwork every month and come into OSU at least every two months.

 

As to side effects with IV chemo: The doses are smaller than what is used in humans, therefore there are typically fewer side affects. Side affects (in decreasing order of likelihood) are: lethargy, lack of apetite, nausea, vomiting, and/or diarrhea. In very rare cases more serious side affects can occur. The dogs white cell count can get so low that a body-wide infection could occur -- this can be life threatening. This is why they do a CBC before each chemo. They will not do the chemo if the white blood cell count is too low. The chemo can cause heart or kidney damage (and perhaps liver damage). This is extremely rare but possible.

 

You may notice your dog losing some fur (he will not go bald), especially his whiskers.

 

Your dog may seem a bit depressed. This may last through the duration of the IV chemo. Joe had some nausea and diarrhea from

the IV chemo which kept him from enjoying life as much as he did before the cancer. He still played with his toys and loved cuddling -- he just seemed a bit worn out. Once the IV chemo was over, he became his normal happy-go-lucky self. I am told that most dogs are not bothered as much as Joe was by the chemo.

 

OSU typically prescribes 5 days of cerenia following IV chemo to help control the nausea. You are probably already giving him famotidine (pepcid); you will continue this. You may also need to give him peptobismol, reglan, and/or sucralfate (aka carafate) if he experiences nausea or vomiting. If he gets diarrhea, he will likely get metronidazole (aka Flagyl). All of these are prescription drugs except the famotidine and peptobismol. Be sure to call around for the best prices. It varies widely. I get most of my prescriptions filled at Giant Eagle. They have some free antibiotics (metronidazole is not one of them) and they will match prices. OSU will write a script or call it in for you -- you just need to ask. Their pharmacy is usually more expensive than human pharmacies but not always.

 

To give you an example of price ranges: I just filled a prescription for valium for Joes thunderstorm phobia today. I called around and got prices from a low of $8.50 to a high of $61 for generic valium.

 

If you do need to give your dog peptobismol, be aware that this drug can cause the stools to be very dark. Normally this would be something to worry about, but in this case it is likely due to the peptobismol. However, mention it to your vet if this happens. They may want to do a hemocult to be safe (to check for blood in the stool).

 

I hope all this info helps.

 

p.s. my brief meeting with James showed me that he is a feisty dog that won't let anything get him down. My guess is that he will breeze through all of this.

[NeylasMom]

Wanted to post here since we got our official diagnosis of Osteosarcoma. Dr Couto thought for sure he had hemangiosarcoma but according to the path report (which Dr Couto spoke to them twice since the results came in) they are certain he has osteosarcoma. We are 2 1/2 hours from OSU but are planning to get his sutures out and his first chemo there next week. From that point on, I was hoping to do the chemo at our vet here. I know the chemo schedule is 5 treatments every 2 weeks. What kind of side effects should I be preparing for?

Also, I wanted to mention that I read all 27 pages of posts and really hate this disease. My heart goes out to everyone who is dealing with this and to those who have lost their babies.

Oh no, I'm so sorry to hear that this was the official diagnosis. It's so rare that it's not, but when Dr. C suspects something else you really hope. If I recall correctly, it sounded like you caught it pretty early so I will be hoping that the amp was still curative. Deerhound Darcy is about to celebrate 42 months cancer free so it IS possible and I believe we have several pups in here headed in that direction.

 

 

Thanks to the people who offered support yesterday. It was a ROUGH day, but I am doing better now. I did post in EEG a link to a FB album I created with pics of all of Neyla's birthday parties if anyone wants to check it out.

 

So happy that Lucy is doing so much better and that Dude continues to do well, and Gracy, Joe, and Charlie too.

 

How is Tiny doing?

 

Kari, right back at you. Hope the new man is keeping your mind off of things.

Edited March 12, 2011 by NeylasMom

[queenwinniesmom]

I've been checking in occasionally, hoping for a positive Lucy update. I'm SO glad she is doing better! Physical problems aside, I think they have some individual, unexplainable time frame as to how they are going to progress in doing what they need (or want) to do. As time goes on, I think there will be more and more of Lucy "forgetting" that she couldn't (or didn't want to) do something. These steps forward are small but steady, and each is like a tiny miracle to the anxious Mom or Dad. The first time Winnie "forgot" that she couldn't go up 23 outside steps was when Doug was calling the other dogs to dinner. Dinner had always been a high point of the day for Winnie, and before she knew it, she was standing at the top of the steps, and I had burst into tears! It would be another few weeks before she did it on a regular basis, but the forward movement was established, and I knew she was on her way to being her quirky, stubborn, brave, pre-amp self. Lucy is traveling that road now, and I have no doubt that she will be miles along in no time at all. Please give her a gentle hug for me.

 

And hugs to all the ones in every stage of that journey. And you too, Jen.

[GreytNut]

Wow, everyone seems to be doing very well. Charlie is amazing. Lucy sounds like she's finally getting her "old self" back, and so does Dude. I'm always sorry to see a new hound in this thread, though.

 

The hardest part of this with Tiny is that I never know what to expect from day to day. When Argus had osteo (he was only 7) it was a very aggressive form that took him out in 2 weeks. Each day was worse than the last. Tiny is tenaciously hanging in there. Some days he seems almost like himself, and some days I wonder if it's time to let him go. He seems to be having more bad days than good now. His leg is really starting to swell. From time to time he experiences breakthrough pain and cries until it passes. But yet he's still eating, still wants treats and still wants to snuggle with me. I'm letting him share my dinner and clean the plate, which I never, ever would have done before (and the other dogs aren't allowed). Years of training him not to beg or steal food, all undone within a few days. He loves it. I think when he stops enjoying food it will be time.

 

For those who have hounds around 70ish pounds and are giving Rimadyl, Gabapentin and Tramadol, how much are you giving? The vet and I are really butting heads about how much to give, and I'm giving more than he prescribed. The problem is that this means I run out of meds faster and have to go back to him for another prescription refill... thus making it obvious that I am giving more than instructed. He says if I need to give him more meds to keep him comfortable, it's time to think about quality of life. I say if more meds will keep him comfortable, why be stingy? I'm not worried about long-term effects on his vital organs, which I think might be the vet's concern. Tiny won't live long enough for it to matter. I just want him to enjoy his time.

[Guest KathyK]

Hi Kristen,

 

When Ward's pain was at it's worst, we were giving him 2 Rimadyl/day, 300 mg of Tramadol 3 times/day and started a Fentanyl patch that was 100 mcg/hour. He was 90 pounds before he was sick and probably aroud 80 pounds at the end. Once we started the Fentanyl he was more comfortable and we were able to back off the Tramadol a bit. Our Vet was very confident in that dose of Tramadol although I know others have expressed their concern. Ward really needed that dose although you will have to go by your Vet's advice. In regards to the Fentanyl, it gave him a more constant dose of pain med as it is continuous over 3 days and then you change the patch. It is very expensive. I was quoted $45 to $20 a patch but was able to convince a local pharmacist to let me have one box (5 in a box) for $15/patch. That came out to $5/day and was money well spent to make our boy comfortable.

 

My heart breaks for you. We faced the same situation 6 weeks ago. When Ward could not lay down by himself anymore, we let him go. We greatly feared his hip would break and did not want those memories. I hope that your Vet will come up with better pain control for Tiny. He needs to be on hospice doses, not regular pain doses. Sometimes I think they go too much by the book when they prescribe. All our best to you and your precious boy.

 

Kathy

[NeylasMom]

Kristen, I agree completely with your take on the meds. I think I mentioned this before, but you can easily find the max dosages per lb online. It might be time to take that information to your vet and explain what you just told us. He may have a different idea about end of life care than you do, but Tiny is your dog and you are his only advocate. In order to be that, you need to be clear about how you want to handle Tiny's care and your vet needs to get on board. If he doesn't, well you just send him my way for a tongue lashing.

 

After Neyla was gone someone who had experience with human bone cancer pain relayed to me that the pain never really goes away. Meds can lower it to a dull pain, but never eliminate it completely. I really don't know how true this is, but I did wish I had been told that earlier as it may have factored into my decisions about pain management and when to let her go.

 

It's such an utterly horrible difficult thing to have to decide when to let a pet go, I'm sorry you're struggling with it.

[Zoolady]

Wonder was up to 6, 50 mg Tramadol and 3, 100 mg Gabapentin a day. He handled it well and didn't get too sleepy.

 

Oh, and also Metacam for a 70# dog once a day and Pepcid for his tummy.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Zoolady

[greysmom]

Wondering how everyone's doing this Sunday?? Dude is four days post-chemo and is getting back to normal - doing great!

 

White light and support ofr those with troubles. Good thoughts for those having a better day.

 

Hugs for all!

[greysmom]

Bumping cause this forum has been extra busy lately and we slipped to the next page.

 

Hugs to everyone today!

[Guest roselle]

Bumping cause this forum has been extra busy lately and we slipped to the next page.

 

Hugs to everyone today!

 

Off the subject. Howard our 18 y/o lab/shep. Is ready to cross the bridge. Howard is Gracy's brother and are very close. His pain from spinal arthritis has not been kept under control. He now has developed loss of bowel control and poops all over our house. His hind quarter weakness prevents him from getting up from the floor. I know it's time but I've had him for 18 years. If he were my child he would be going off to collage. I'm going to miss him so much. I'm waiting for our vet to see when he can come to my house next week. Gracy had blood work and chest x-rays yeasterday and they better be normal. How do you get through this. I feel like my stomachis up in my chest. Please pray for an easy passing for my sweet Howard.

[Batmom]

Gentle scritchies to your beloved Howard, and hugs for yourself.

[NeylasMom]

Roselle, I'm so sorry. Sending lots of warm thoughts for you and your family and a peaceful passing for Howard. 18 years is such a long time, I can only imagine how difficult that will be for you. And that everything is clear for Gracy.

[greysmom]

Roselle, I'm so sorry. Sending lots of warm thoughts for you and your family and a peaceful passing for Howard. 18 years is such a long time, I can only imagine how difficult that will be for you. And that everything is clear for Gracy.

 

 

This. So sorry..............................

[GreytNut]

Roselle, I'm so sorry. Sending lots of warm thoughts for you and your family and a peaceful passing for Howard. 18 years is such a long time, I can only imagine how difficult that will be for you. And that everything is clear for Gracy.

 

 

This. So sorry..............................

 

Adding my sympathies. It's terrible to say goodbye to a pet you've had for so very long.

[RedFawnMom]

Roselle, I am so sorry. 18 years is a long time. I don't know how anyone gets through it, but we all do....somehow.

[RedFawnMom]

An update on Lucy: She's doing GREAT!!! She really turned a corner and she's back to her "old" self! She's playing with stuffies, running in the yard, following me around the house, and even went for a really short little walk down the street today. She had her second chemo treatment on Friday and it didn't slow her down at all - I was shocked, but I swear, we didn't notice ANY effect on her energy level, appetite, etc. The bruising is much, much better and the seroma is subsiding. She comes down the stairs without a problem but still hasn't figured out how to go up, so my husband carries her up every night. I'm so relieved that she bounced back - for a while, I really thought we had made a mistake. The difference between today and a week ago is astounding. It really is true that they all recover at different rates.

 

How is everyone else doing today?

[cmc333]

So glad Lucy is back to enjoying life. And for you to have the confirmation you did the right thing for her.

 

Connie

[Charlies_Dad]

Roselle, I am very sorry that you have to make the decision to let Howard go. Our thoughts are with you during this difficult time.

[Guest juliagulia630]

At OSU now to meet with oncology and gets James' sutures out. Dr couto is no longer on service. We are seeing Dr Urie. Fingers crossed we qualify for a study!