Osteo Thread

[RedFawnMom]

Lucy and I made it to Boston and she did get her first chemo treatment today. She loved the trip, her tail wagged non-stop while we were at the clinic and she had to say hi to everyone. She's my social butterfly. The vet didn't take out the staples, she said she thinks waiting one more week is a good idea since there's still some swelling and bruising. But she said it was fine to start the carboplatin, so we did, and she seems to be feeling great so far. We're going to do six chemo doses and the oncologist called OSU and spoke to Dr. Marin, and they're going to send four doses next week, which is a big help since it's not cheap.

 

But here's the thing that made my day: After we exited the clinic, I took her to the pee area and she just wanted to walk and walk, so we took a little stroll, then went back to the car and she JUMPED IN the back of my Honda CRV! I was so surprised and happy to see her getting back to a normal life, it just made my day. Her balance is SO much better and she's getting around really well. We did a lot of walking/standing around (the clinic is huge) and she didn't slow down at all. And I am happy to report that she indeed does not pull as hard as she used to.

 

The oncologist and I talked about realistic prognosis and she said Lucy has lots of things that put her in the "great prognosis" category, except her age. She said age 5 is the "cut off" where they say the prognosis is not good if the dog is younger than that. But, given the other factors, she said she thinks we'll get at least a year, which I was glad to hear. We talked a little about Palladia / the metronomic protocol and she didn't seem to be on board with that since there's a lack of clinical evidence, but we've got 18 weeks of chemo to get through before we have to make that decision, so we'll discuss that later.

[greysmom]

Yeah Lucy!!!! Hope she continues to feel well!

 

This is day three post-chemo for Dude and he's a bit sleepy/tired, and having some trouble eating. I don't think he's really nauseous since he'll readily eat any sort of treat. He just doesn't want to "eat." I've decided he'll just eat what he wants when he wants it for now and we'll see how he is in a couple days. He has a re-check on Monday with his surgeon, who will take his staples and stitches out, so we'll see what they say then.

 

Hugs to all!

[joejoesmom]

 

But here's the thing that made my day: After we exited the clinic, I took her to the pee area and she just wanted to walk and walk, so we took a little stroll, then went back to the car and she JUMPED IN the back of my Honda CRV! I was so surprised and happy to see her getting back to a normal life, it just made my day. Her balance is SO much better and she's getting around really well. We did a lot of walking/standing around (the clinic is huge) and she didn't slow down at all. And I am happy to report that she indeed does not pull as hard as she used to.

 

We talked a little about Palladia / the metronomic protocol and she didn't seem to be on board with that since there's a lack of clinical evidence, but we've got 18 weeks of chemo to get through before we have to make that decision, so we'll discuss that later.

 

Such good news that Lucy is coming around. It took Joe a while but by week 6 he was just about back to his normal self. He does tire out a bit more quickly when walking but otherwise he runs and chases squirrels and kills stuffies and is just very Joe-like.

 

When your IV chemo is done, why don't you have your oncologist talk to Dr. Couto or one of the other oncologists at OSU. They did a study (not sure if it is published yet) showing that Palladia has some positive impact on existing, radiologically visible, lung metastases due to osteo. Dr. Couto said to me that they are not sure if this means that it will work with any microscopic metastases but he put my Joe on the Palladia metronomic protocol anyway. I think (but am not sure) that Joe is part of a study regarding this. I have lost track of what studies he is in. I just know that I take him in every month for various lab tests. However, you need to be able to bring your dog to OSU every month to qualify for free Palladia for 6 months (assuming there is still room in the study). So my guess is that you would need to pay for it yourself. It is not cheap. I think someone said that it runs about $350 a month. A lot of money to pay when there is no proof that it would work to prevent metastases. And there is really only one small study that shows that it is effective at all. Also, Dr. Couto says that Joe will need to take it for the rest of his life -- quite a financial committment.

[Guest roselle]

Lucy and I made it to Boston and she did get her first chemo treatment today. She loved the trip, her tail wagged non-stop while we were at the clinic and she had to say hi to everyone. She's my social butterfly. The vet didn't take out the staples, she said she thinks waiting one more week is a good idea since there's still some swelling and bruising. But she said it was fine to start the carboplatin, so we did, and she seems to be feeling great so far. We're going to do six chemo doses and the oncologist called OSU and spoke to Dr. Marin, and they're going to send four doses next week, which is a big help since it's not cheap.

 

But here's the thing that made my day: After we exited the clinic, I took her to the pee area and she just wanted to walk and walk, so we took a little stroll, then went back to the car and she JUMPED IN the back of my Honda CRV! I was so surprised and happy to see her getting back to a normal life, it just made my day. Her balance is SO much better and she's getting around really well. We did a lot of walking/standing around (the clinic is huge) and she didn't slow down at all. And I am happy to report that she indeed does not pull as hard as she used to.

 

The oncologist and I talked about realistic prognosis and she said Lucy has lots of things that put her in the "great prognosis" category, except her age. She said age 5 is the "cut off" where they say the prognosis is not good if the dog is younger than that. But, given the other factors, she said she thinks we'll get at least a year, which I was glad to hear. We talked a little about Palladia / the metronomic protocol and she didn't seem to be on board with that since there's a lack of clinical evidence, but we've got 18 weeks of chemo to get through before we have to make that decision, so we'll discuss that later.

Feel good Lucy, and rest. This is a good time to get lots of treats,the humans feel so bad for you . Ask away the sky's the limit. Your friend Gracy

[Guest azlorenz]

Oh, hey Kyle, have you heard from Shannon at all recently? I need to send her a PM. I miss her in here, but understand why she wouldn't want to stop in as often.

 

 

I'M HERE, I'M HERE!!! I've been lurking. I just feel like I can't really contribute that much and also because I'd like to forget what I do know. We miss Flash like crazy.

 

I send my love and prayers to all the members of this thread and wish you much success on this journey.

Edited February 19, 2011 by azlorenz

[greysmom]

Dude had a bit better day today, though still not eating much "food." He'll eat treats and junk food easily! I've managed to get a bit over a cup of kibble in him throughout the day which is only a little less than he would normally have, so I guess he's doing OK.

 

The biggest step forward is that he's going up and down the stairs on his own again. I've been keeping a baby gate at the bottom or top so he can't go up/down unsupervised, but today he scooted both ways in the split secnd my back was turned. He's not stumbling or hesitating and seems pretty comfortable doing it. Mom's going to have to obsessively worry about something else now!

 

Hope Lucy and everyone else had at least an OK day today and that Sunday is even better. Keep up the good fight!

 

Hugs for all!

[Zoolady]

Question

 

Wonder (osteo right shoulder) has been doing okay with his Metacam, Pepcid and six Tramadol a day. Last night he was uncomfortable and we gave him an extra Tramadol and he seemed more comfortable this morning. He's still eating like a champ and greeting us at the door. He always pants when standing but it stops as soon as he lays down.

 

We're thinking about Gabapentin. Do you think this would be a good thing to add? It seems it's helped a lot of dogs here but we're not familiar with side effects. Our vet hasn't had much experience with it. Do you think she should talk to an oncologist here or maybe OSU? I think there is probably enough experience here at GT so that might not be necessary?

 

Thoughts?

[Guest snakes]

Gabapentin seems to have worked very well for many pups here, including my FedX, i was able to decrease his tramadol when i added gabapentin. The only side effect I know about is possible lethargy/sedation, so far we haven't seen that but FedX is on a lower dose (100mg twice a day).

[RedFawnMom]

We've had good luck with Gabapentin. Lucy's post-op pain wasn't controlled with just Tramadol and Deramax so we tried the Gaba and it seems to really help. We give 200mg twice a day. I haven't noticed any side effects, but we started with just 100 mg per day to start to make sure it wouldn't be too sedating. If your vet is uncomfortable prescribing it without more info, I would suggest they contact OSU. Good luck and kisses to Wonder.

[Guest roselle]

Question

 

Wonder (osteo right shoulder) has been doing okay with his Metacam, Pepcid and six Tramadol a day. Last night he was uncomfortable and we gave him an extra Tramadol and he seemed more comfortable this morning. He's still eating like a champ and greeting us at the door. He always pants when standing but it stops as soon as he lays down.

 

We're thinking about Gabapentin. Do you think this would be a good thing to add? It seems it's helped a lot of dogs here but we're not familiar with side effects. Our vet hasn't had much experience with it. Do you think she should talk to an oncologist here or maybe OSU? I think there is probably enough experience here at GT so that might not be necessary?

 

Thoughts?

 

My vet didn't have experience with gabapetin either, but my oncologist was and wanted Gracy on it with the tramadol and metacam. It's been a really good addition to her pain cocktail as well as for my 18 y/o lab with significant arthritis. I take it for back pain and would be lost without it. I wouldn't hesitate to try it. Good luck and give Wonder a hug from me.

[NeylasMom]

Yes to adding Gabapentin. I would slowly back down off hte additional Tramadol and add the Gabapentin in instead. Preferable to just adding more Tram imo b/c it addresses a different type of pain - basically gives you more well-rounded pain management if that makes sense. There was a good bit of discussion about adding it in and the dosages earlier in this thread so I would read back before you talk to your vet.

 

Hi Shannon! You can just pop in to tell us how you, DH, Tansy and Elly are doing occasionally. Or not, no pressure or anything. How is Elly settling in?

[greysmom]

Dude had a really god day today!

 

He ate a good breakfast - oatmeal, some kibble, some canned food - is going up and down the stairs, he played with a toy (as much as he ever did before, he's not really a toy dog), ran around the yard, ate a good dinner, and generally seemed more sparkly today than previously. Hopefully, we're over the hump for post-chemo nausea! Stitches out tomorrow!

 

Hugs for everyone!

[krissn333]

Dude!

 

Sutra loved oatmeal - one of his favorite things. I always just gave him the regular flavor, but one day I ran out and hadn't noticed I'd been running low, so I had to give him some Quaker Cinnamon Roll oatmeal. He REALLY liked that!

[RedFawnMom]

Yay, Dude! Lucy loves oatmeal, too.

 

This is day #2 post chemo for Lucy and we haven't noticed any side effects so far, but am still keeping my fingers crossed. We did end up at the vet Saturday morning. Lucy decided she didn't care what the oncologist thought about leaving the staples in for another week and took it upon herself to remove some of them (my husband was supposed to be watching her ). It was healed up enough that the vet was ok with not re-stapling but put her back on another 10 days of antibiotics just to be safe, since she just started chemo.

 

She's been eating chicken and rice since coming home from the surgery since something (I think the NSAID) was causing a bit of diarrhea. She looks too skinny for my liking, I don't think the chicken has enough calories. Her tummy seems ok now and she's off the NSAID, so I'm trying to get her onto a little bit of a high protein, low carb kibble. She's been on Kirkland chicken and rice since we adopted her but she hasn't been that into it for the past few months, and I want to get her on something lower carb. I got a small bag of the Blue Buffalo Wilderness chicken formula and she LOVES it. We're giving maybe 3/4 cup per day (along with the boiled chicken and rice) and so far it seems to be agreeing with her.

[NeylasMom]

Dude! And Lucy for doing well with chemo (but bad Lucy for taking out your own staples ).

 

Jess, eggs are a really great way to get protein in that's easy on the stomach. Maybe you could mix some scrambled eggs into her chicken and rice as well (if she'll eat them)?

[brindlebaby]

Dude and Lucy (but practicing medicine without a license is a no-no )

 

Callie continues to do very well. Herman took her to the oncologist office on Friday to get a CBC done and results were everything was normal and they said to return in two weeks for her second chemo.

 

She did have a weird "episode" yesterday and I was one minute from rushing her to the hopsital. It was like she had something in her throat, but her whole body was heaving. Reminded me of an asthma attack in people. It was nice out so we did have the windows open (weird since it was in the teens a couple of weeks ago) and I thought maybe it could of been an allergic reaction?? I closed the windows and put on the A/C for a bit and she calmed down and has been fine since. (I know I'm all sneezing, hacking and all stopped up with sinuses now.) Hoping it was just something tickley caught in her throat that's passed.

 

 

She also has lost quite a bit of weight... I notice you said Lucy is too skinny. Callie used to weigh in the high 70's (she's been big for a girl, not fat, just big) and gradually she went down to around 68 (I was told they lose weight as they age), where she was when she had her amputation. After the amp she was at 55 pounds, but I think she has lost more. (Will try and get a number today so I can tell the oncologist when I call tomorrow.) Her ribs are really pronounced. I've heard that they will gain weight once the chemo is over, but I don't think she can last that long if she continues to lose.

 

Her appetite is excellent - eats everything with gusto. She is on Pro Plan kibble... what is a better low carb option of kibble that would also be high calorie (that's what I want, isn't it?)?

 

Also is there some kind of supplement they could start her on to keep her weight on?

 

After looking at her before bed, I cried myself to sleep. She's so skinny, I think she's thinner than Pixie and Pixie's a twig!

 

 

 

 

 

She's been eating chicken and rice since coming home from the surgery since something (I think the NSAID) was causing a bit of diarrhea. She looks too skinny for my liking, I don't think the chicken has enough calories.

[Guest KathyK]

Haven't posted recently but have been following what is going on with everyone's precious hounds. Condolences again to Jen, Kari, Connie and Trip's Dad in their losses of Neyla, Sparks, Gypsy and Trip. I am sorry if I left anyone out. It will be 3 weeks tomorrow that we let Ward go. We are heartbroken but know that we did the best thing for him with the situation he faced. Our little Roxie is missing her big alpha brother and we hope she will not go back to her shy, spooky ways. We are giving her lots of attention but she quite frankly seems as depressed as we are.

 

I am thrilled to see how Dude, Lucy, Charlie, Callie and Gracy are doing. I pray for continued success with all their treatments and recovery. I hope that you all will have much more time to treasure them.

 

My heart goes out to Wonder and Tiny. Barbara and Kristen, I hope that you have a lot more time with your beautiful dogs.

 

I really enjoy seeing everyone's photos. Your dogs are so inspiring. Kim, when I saw Callie's picture I was shocked at how much she looked like my Ward. They have the same face and eyes. It warmed my heart and I wish her all the best.

 

Kathy

[RedFawnMom]

Hmmmm, that's a good question about calories, I'd think you'd want to go with something higher in fat? I've been looking at the high protein/low carb/grain free options and narrowed it down to:

 

Blue Buffalo Wilderness (any of the three flavors, we're trying chicken)...34% protein/15% fat

 

Evo (any of the flavors) -- this is the highest protein and fat I've found...42% protein / 22% fat for the red meat formula

 

I was worried that the higher fat content in the Evo would cause tummy issues, so we're starting with the Blue Buffalo.

 

I don't know a lot about how to compare dog foods, so I'm sure someone who knows more about it than I do will chime in. :-)

 

Oh - and Jen - Lucy HATES egg!

[greysmom]

Dude lost about 11 pounds from before the amp surgery to last Wednesday when he had his first chemo. So 78 lbs to 67lbs. He doesn't look super skinny, but he's definitely a bit more svelte since the surgery. Weird question, but does anybody know how much a leg weighs? I'm thinking it's got to be most of the weight loss.

 

So if I'm looking for kibble do I need to look for high protein. high fat and low or no carbs??? Is this the best support for this disease? I've been looking into Orijen, Taste of the Wild and Castor and Polluz Organix. Since he seems to like plain dry kibble best right now, I want it to be a good one.

 

Dude gets his staples out late this afternoon. I hope it doesn't take forever!

 

Yeah Lucy! Hope she continues to do well! Yeah Callie! No more hackies! Yeah to everyone else!

 

Hugs to all!

[RedFawnMom]

Chris - yes, I was told to aim for high fat, high protein, very low carb. Hills makes an n/d food specifically designed for dogs undergoing chemo. It is VERY high in fat (33%) and protein (38%). Our oncologist said it's a good model to strive for, but that a lot of dogs can't tolerate the n/d, so she just said to check the grain-free kibbles and find whatever has a high percentage of protein and the highest fat content that Lucy can tolerate. I think a lot of the fat in the n/d is just added fish oil, so you could just get a high-protein kibble and add in as much fish oil as tolerated (that's what we're going to try).

 

Here's the Hills food: http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-canine-nd-canine-canned.html

 

I found this, too: http://caninecancerawareness.org/html/Diet.html

It has a recipe for a homemade n/d-like food, if you're up to cooking.

[Guest azlorenz]

With our Flashyman we fed the EVO Red Meat Formula (Protein - 44.17%; Fat - 23.13%; Cabohydrates - 14.85%).

Edited February 22, 2011 by azlorenz

[Zoolady]

Haven't posted recently but have been following what is going on with everyone's precious hounds. Condolences again to Jen, Kari, Connie and Trip's Dad in their losses of Neyla, Sparks, Gypsy and Trip. I am sorry if I left anyone out. It will be 3 weeks tomorrow that we let Ward go. We are heartbroken but know that we did the best thing for him with the situation he faced. Our little Roxie is missing her big alpha brother and we hope she will not go back to her shy, spooky ways. We are giving her lots of attention but she quite frankly seems as depressed as we are.

 

I am thrilled to see how Dude, Lucy, Charlie, Callie and Gracy are doing. I pray for continued success with all their treatments and recovery. I hope that you all will have much more time to treasure them.

 

My heart goes out to Wonder and Tiny. Barbara and Kristen, I hope that you have a lot more time with your beautiful dogs.

 

I really enjoy seeing everyone's photos. Your dogs are so inspiring. Kim, when I saw Callie's picture I was shocked at how much she looked like my Ward. They have the same face and eyes. It warmed my heart and I wish her all the best.

 

Kathy

 

Wonder says "thank you." We started on the Gabapentin tonight (100 mg). He whimpered a little when I got home at lunch and tonight he was panting laying down for a minute which is new. He's hanging in there and still being himself which is priceless.

[Guest KathyK]

As to panting, Ward panted all the time, for years. As soon as he laid down and put his head down, it would stop. We didn't see any difference even when he got osteo. The only time it would get really bad was when we were at the Vet. He really got nervous whenever he would go there. The minute my car would make the last turn, he would start gagging. He was a funny guy!

 

Kathy

[NeylasMom]

 

Oh - and Jen - Lucy HATES egg!

Oh well, I tried. Neyla didn't like 'em either.

 

 

Kathy, thank you and continued good thoughts for you.

 

I feel like I've been handling things a little bit better just very lately, but some of that could be because I've been really busy and therefore distracted. Last night sucked though. I've been rewatching old seasons of Grey's Anatomy. As I approached the final episode of season 2, I remembered that Meredith and Derek have to let their dog go, but I totally forgot that it was because he gets freaking osteo!! They actually show him being put down, boy did that catch me off guard.

 

Continued good thoughts for all of the post-amp and palliative pups. Sounds like everyone is doing well, which is great.

 

 

Kari, are you feeling better about having Spark's ashes at home?

[Guest snakes]

As I am sure everyone here has, i have scoured all the dry dog foods for protien content.

FedX doesn't tolerate many foods getting diarrhea, so that in the past eliminated the costco brand, Blue buffalo, and Merrick.

Now we are doing a partially home cooked diet with a veggie stew, raw chicken, some canned dog food, and some kibble.

We used to use Purina One until they changed thier recipie and then that no longer worked. We used Iams naturals for quite some time with very good results, but recently switched to Taste of the Wild to up the protien content with good results i also looked at the Canidae grain free version but picked taste of the wild based on it was a few bucks cheaper, otherwise they were comparable.