Osteo Thread

[Guest roselle]

Jess,

 

I agree going to 2x100mg a day makes the most sense. As for the trembling, that is normal. Charlie's stump trembles sometimes so it's nothing to get too worried about. For example, Charlie used to scratch his ears a lot, well after the amp you can guess it is a little difficult. So what happens is he will try to scratch and his stump will move like he still has his leg. Both myself and DW always try to scratch his ear for him as he likes it so much but when you first see this, it's little unnerving. Oh and one other thing, Charlie has become A LOT more vocal since his amp, he'll whine to go out, he'll whine if he wants food, he'll whine if wants attention, etc, etc..

 

Sorry, I need to barge right in here. Gracy just completed her last chemo and she looks great, well she looks tired but it's over.

[NeylasMom]

Gracy!!!

 

Chris, maybe Dude is self-regulating since he's less active? Wishful thinking maybe, but possible. I'll let others chime in on the kibble. I'm one of those raw feeders so I'd just go on about grains and such. (You could also home cook something grain free... ).

[greysmom]

Jen, I'm not opposed to raw feeding - we raw fed our Great Danes with good results - and I home cooked for our first Greyhound going through kidney failure. Just looking for some opinions.

 

YEAH GRACY!!!!! Dude starts tomorrow! Kind of glad and kind of scared.

[Charlies_Dad]

Way to go Gracy!!!

 

Chris, in relation to diet, we feed Charlie blended fresh vegetables (done in a food processor), herbs, sardines, lentils along with either salmon, mackeral, raw turkey or chicken or boiled eggs. He has done fine on this diet and he gets a slew of supplements as well.

[NeylasMom]

Jen, I'm not opposed to raw feeding - we raw fed our Great Danes with good results - and I home cooked for our first Greyhound going through kidney failure. Just looking for some opinions.

 

YEAH GRACY!!!!! Dude starts tomorrow! Kind of glad and kind of scared.

Well I can add this little bit - if you're looking for a grain free kibble (if you want to go kibble that would be my rec but again, teh raw feeding ), I really like Acana. Similar to Orijen, but less costly and all products from the USA. Obviously I didn't use it for Neyla, but I've used it with good success with a long term foster who had some stomach issues.

 

Didn't realize Dude started chemo tomorrow. Good luck Dude!

[Guest roselle]

Jen, I'm not opposed to raw feeding - we raw fed our Great Danes with good results - and I home cooked for our first Greyhound going through kidney failure. Just looking for some opinions.

 

YEAH GRACY!!!!! Dude starts tomorrow! Kind of glad and kind of scared.

Well I can add this little bit - if you're looking for a grain free kibble (if you want to go kibble that would be my rec but again, teh raw feeding ), I really like Acana. Similar to Orijen, but less costly and all products from the USA. Obviously I didn't use it for Neyla, but I've used it with good success with a long term foster who had some stomach issues.

 

Didn't realize Dude started chemo tomorrow. Good luck Dude!

 

Dude, good luck tomorrow now go kick osteosarcomas butt. Roselle and Gracy

[Guest vahoundlover]

Gracy

 

 

 

Good luck Dude!

[krissn333]

Chris, Sutra ate Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream. Around here we can't get things like Orijen or Acana though, so those might be better foods. TOTW is grain free though, with a good amount of protein...and it's affordable (IMO, for a premium food)...it's about $40 for a 30 lb bag. The Solid Gold Barking at the Moon is a good food, but it's about $65 a bag Those are really our only grain-free fish based foods available around here. The pups like the TOTW better anyway

 

Raw feeding would be great of course, but again, around here it's difficult to get a lot of the things that would round out a raw diet. Sutra also had a pancreatitis issue, and eating red meats didn't really agree with him.

 

Sending good thoughts for Dude

[RedFawnMom]

How did Dude's chemo go today?

 

I'm feeling really down today. The vet called with the final results of the pathology. The original biopsy, prior to the amputation, confirmed neoplastic cells in the bone (cancer), but they were only able to say it was either osteosarcoma, chondrosarcoma or fibrosarcoma of the bone. I talked myself into believing it was probably fibrosarcoma, but the final report came back and it's confirmed osteo. I really wasn't at all surprised, but hearing it was hard. Mentally I hadn't committed to chemo because if it was fibrosarcoma, chemo wouldn't be necessary. So I immediately started calling oncologists, all the while kicking myself for not making an appointment sooner. We're seeing someone at Angell Memorial in Boston on Friday.

 

I just feel horrible now, knowing that she's had osteo for so long. Our initial X-ray was December 10, so we waited two months longer than we should have. Because so many things were inconclusive, and the lesion never changed size in the three sets of X-rays we did, and the radiologist really thought it was an infection, we didn't do things as quickly as we really should have. I know the average life expectancy following amp and chemo is 6-18 months, but I also know that most people do not let the tumor grow for two months once it's first detected, so I'm really worried that we're not going to get much time.

 

On top of that, Lucy just doesn't seem happy. If I'm honest with myself, she seems pretty depressed and worried. I leaned over her this morning to pick up her food dish as she was standing (I didn't touch her), and she cried. She did the same thing this morning when my husband opened the back door to let her out and it came close to her. That is SO unlike her. She's not moving around much at all and hops really slowly. I'm definitely questioning whether or not this was the right thing to do.

[greysmom]

Jess, I'm so sorry that Lucy is having a hard time. I know you know this but try to keep positive for her sake - she's probably picking up on your distress, as well as dealing with her own adjustment issues. Each dog has to learn on their own how to do things, and, though it's really hard, we need to let them figure it out without too much intervention, as they're able to handle it physically.

 

And please don't double guess yourself! No one wants to think their dog has cancer, so doing a watch-and-wait when you're not sure is completely natural. My thing right now is that Dude dealt with a shoulder issue all summer that caused him to limp and whine. The orthopedist we (finally) saw in September, who is a good Greyhound vet, was 99.99% positive it was just a muscle strain, and we didn't do x-rays. Now I'm wondering if that was a precursor that we missed, even though it was in a completely different leg and he stopped limping soon after. Though I'm not sure there was anything we could/would have done differently then OR now.

 

Keep ahead of her pain and swelling wih the meds, and cherish Lucy every single day! If I've learned nothing else in the last three months with two dogs going through life-threatening problems, I've learned we never really know how long we;ll have them, with or without cancer, so each day is a wonderful gift to be celebrated.

 

Dude did really awesome at chemo today. He's home and ate a big dinner, and now he's napping on our bed. We came home with some Cerenia for nausea and an appointment for the second batch in three weeks.

[NeylasMom]

I know the average life expectancy following amp and chemo is 6-18 months, but I also know that most people do not let the tumor grow for two months once it's first detected, so I'm really worried that we're not going to get much time.

True, but most people also don't catch it as early as you likely did. Try not to second guess your decisions - you are making the best decisions at each stage with the information you have and that's the best that you can do. Or give yourself one night to be upset with yourself, have a stiff drink, and then pick yourself back up tomorrow for Lucy's sake.

 

The first 2 weeks after amp are rough. It will get better. I do understand the sadness at receiving the official dx. Even if you are certain that's what it is, it's not any easier to hear it, it just plain old sucks. I will remember getting that email from Dr. Couto and the feeling that came with it until the day I die.

 

Glad to hear Dude did well with his first chemo treatment.

[Charlies_Dad]

Jess,

 

Try to stay positive, don't focus on the negative as it's not going to help you or Lucy. There is a lot positive attitude and thinking can do and Lucy may just build off it. As one of the of the characters in the original Gum Ball Rally said, "what's behind me doesn't matter!". History is history, you can't change that but you can change the future. It is possible Lucy may have 'phantom pain', it's been known to happen after amputation for some pups. It could also be she needs more pain meds. In both instances, where was she on her pain meds schedule? Near the end? Both times were in the morning, how long before these episodes did she have her meds?

 

 

Way to go Dude! One down and it sounds like it went well. Keep on going big guy and you'll be done in no time.

[brindlebaby]

Gracy and Dude!!!

 

 

Regarding Lucy, as the others have said, try not to dwell on what you can't change. I too was worrying because Callie was limping in December. When we took her in, I told the vet that I was worried she had bone cancer. She said that if it is bone cancer, I will know. (Well apparently I did know, but she didn't!) The limp went away with the pain meds, but the plan was if they didn't, we would proceed with x-rays.

 

Callie ended up breaking her leg on January 10 and I hate that happened and she was in so much pain, but maybe in the long run that helped speed things up. Her limp went away with the pain meds, so who knows how long this would of went on before we found out the diagnosis. Maybe then it would of been too late to get an amputation, to start chemo, etc.

 

 

 

I'm only going on by how Callie was acting when she had the start of an infection, but do you think something such as an infection is going on with Lucy. Callie too cried even before I touched her, like she was bracing herself because she knew it was going to hurt. She acted depressed too.

 

If not an infection by the incision, maybe some sort of infection inside?? Just can't get Lucy and you out of my mind and am worrying as if she were my own. Would it be possible to get some bloodwork done soon to see if she does have an infection of some sort??

 

to you and your precious little Lucy. You are both defintely in my thoughts and prayers tonight, as is everyone on here. :hope :hope

 

 

On top of that, Lucy just doesn't seem happy. If I'm honest with myself, she seems pretty depressed and worried. I leaned over her this morning to pick up her food dish as she was standing (I didn't touch her), and she cried. She did the same thing this morning when my husband opened the back door to let her out and it came close to her. That is SO unlike her. She's not moving around much at all and hops really slowly. I'm definitely questioning whether or not this was the right thing to do.

Edited February 17, 2011 by brindlebaby

[RedFawnMom]

 

I'm only going on by how Callie was acting when she had the start of an infection, but do you think something such as an infection is going on with Lucy. Callie too cried even before I touched her, like she was bracing herself because she knew it was going to hurt. She acted depressed too.

 

If not an infection by the incision, maybe some sort of infection inside?? Just can't get Lucy and you out of my mind and am worrying as if she were my own. Would it be possible to get some bloodwork done soon to see if she does have an infection of some sort??

 

to you and your precious little Lucy. You are both defintely in my thoughts and prayers tonight, as is everyone on here. :hope :hope

 

 

She's been on an oral antibiotic (preventative) since the surgery, and the incision looks good to me, though I'm not sure what an infection would look like. There's still bruising, but it's greatly improved. She does have this area where the skin is kind of hanging where it had previously been swollen, but I think that's normal (?). We're seeing an oncologist the day after tomorrow, and she'll check the incision and maybe take the staples out, so I'll talk to her about it. She'll probably run bloodwork, anyway, since we'll be starting chemo soon.

 

When she's laying down, she's not bracing or crying when I touch her, it's very much the opposite, she wants to be petted non-stop. The crying thing happens when she's standing, and my husband thinks the crying is anxiety, like she's afraid we'll knock her over and she's telling us "watch out!". I'm going to keep an eye on it.

 

I feel like I'm on an emotional rollercoaster. Earlier tonight (when I posted) I was so deflated because she just seemed so depressed for the past few days. A couple of hours after I posted, my husband was sleeping on the couch and Lucy was sleeping in her bed (we're all sleeping in the family room), so I went upstairs to brush my teeth. I forgot to close the door to the kitchen behind me and a few minutes later heard noise downstairs - I "ran" to the top of the stairs (I'm recovering from ankle surgery and barely walking, so my run is a slow walk ) and there's Lucy at the bottom of the stairs looking up at me, not anxious, just wanting to follow me. I was shocked because there are no rugs in that part of the house yet and she hadn't been in there since before the surgery...then I was REALLY shocked when she started trying to come up the stairs!! She couldn't quite figure it out but was really motivated and wouldn't give up. I sat on the bottom step encouraging her for a while but I could tell her back leg was getting tired so I took her back into the family room, gave her a bunch of cookies and lovies. Seeing her interested in her old routine and up to trying a challenge was exactly what I needed to get my positive attitude back. Thank you, Lucy, I know you can do this.

[GreytNut]

When she's laying down, she's not bracing or crying when I touch her, it's very much the opposite, she wants to be petted non-stop. The crying thing happens when she's standing, and my husband thinks the crying is anxiety, like she's afraid we'll knock her over and she's telling us "watch out!". I'm going to keep an eye on it.

 

That's probably exactly it. Our first greyhound Argus was in the habit of yelping if we stepped too close to his paws. It was as if he was either anticipating being stepped on or telling us that he was afraid we were going to hurt him.

[cmc333]

It sometimes doesn't help catching the osteo right away. Gypsy yelped one day when in the yard, 3 days later she was at the vet's and I had an x-ray done and it showed just a teeny tiny spot of osteo on her ankle (or wrist - it was a front foot). She was not a candidate for amp, so we immediately started her on the tramadol, rimadyl and gabapentin. She already had thyroid cancer, which we had been fighting for a year.

 

We lost her a month and 2 days after the dx. Even tho we caught it so very early, we still didn't get the "average" 3-4 months w/ pain management only. So somewhere out there is a hound who is going to go over the "average" to make up for Gypsy's less than average time with us. It was such a small spot that we felt we might get a little longer than average time with her. But we didn't.

 

My vet is super - she is always willing to go with my "gut" feel, even if my gut feel isn't very reasonable. And sad to say, I haven't been wrong yet with my gut.

 

I am still so angry at God, at the world, at the people who manage to do amp/chemo, even the people who get the "average" 3 to 4 months of time after the dx. Gypsy was SUCH a good girl; she had been a spook and it took years for her to come around - and then this. It is just so damn unfair. And I miss her so much. She was a real talker and she had a wicked sense of humor and loved playing with me. It was so wonderful to see her lose her fright about everything and become normal and had forgotten how scary the world can be.

 

So back on the subject, it doesn't seem to matter how fast the dx is made and a decision on treatment is made, it's really out of our hands the amount of time we have left. You can't beat yourself up; you did the best you could do. Just spoil her like crazy and make a lot of good memories. And try hard not to cry around her. I am so sorry for your diagnosis - it is such a hellish disease and it takes our loved one much too soon and much too painfully.

 

Connie

[NeylasMom]

Jess, your last post brought tears to my eyes but happy tears for once in this damn thread. Really glad to see that Lucy is tackling new things and that you're feeling better. Osteo is a rollercoaster no matter which route you take, that is something you definitely learn. Wehn I finally figured that out, I tried to tell myself that on bad days and when it got really bad or that wasn't enough to console me, I came here. So you're doing the right things, just keep it up for your girl.

 

 

On that note, today is 2 months (8 weeks) since I let Neyla go. I can't believe it's been that long already and yet it feels like an eternity. I miss her so much, and it doesn't feel any less painful than it did then.

[Charlies_Dad]

Connie, I am very sorry you did not have more time with Gypsy. I truly am. Only last weekend I had a discussion with DW about showing Charlie pictures and hurting those who have lost their pups, especially those who are part of the 7/12 club. I am sorry for doing this and hurting you in any way.

 

Jen, two months already. It feels like yesterday. I loved her videos and I hope someday you will be able to shed tears of joy instead of sadness.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Charlies_Dad

[greysmom]

Kyle, please keep posting pics of Charlie! Even after we lose Dude, seeing pics of precious pups having fun and just being "dogs" will mean so much!

 

Jess, I'm glad Lucy was able to cheer you up! I think the roller coaster is just par for the course.

 

Dude had the first bad night since his surgery last night. He kept/keeps waking up crying and we can't find the source of any pain. He was OK yesterday after the chemo an coming home. He ate a good dinner with his usual enthusiasm, went potty, no problems. Then later after starting his pre-bedtime-nap the crying started. After watching him and pondering, I think he might be having gas pains in his tummy. Can I give him a regular Tums or Maalox???? He's on Cerenia and famotidine in addition to his pain meds and antibiotics.

 

He finally ate breakfast with hand-feeding (plain hamburger and rice) and just had a little snack of a scrambled egg and a bit more rice. We'll see how he does with dinner.

 

ETA - Jen I forgot to say that I was just looking through last year's CG Desk Calendar and saw the pics of Neyla. She was such a sweetie! I'm sorry you lost her.

Edited February 17, 2011 by greysmom

[NeylasMom]

Chris, you can give Gas-x. They're chewable (just give 1 tablet at a time), but Neyla didn't like the taste so I hid them in meatballs. My vet recommended it when we thought Neyla was having gas (a separate issue a while ago). I would also give pepcid 30 minutes before feeding 2x/day if you're not already. Can't hurt.

 

I am still so angry at God, at the world, at the people who manage to do amp/chemo, even the people who get the "average" 3 to 4 months of time after the dx. Gypsy was SUCH a good girl; she had been a spook and it took years for her to come around - and then this. It is just so damn unfair. And I miss her so much. She was a real talker and she had a wicked sense of humor and loved playing with me. It was so wonderful to see her lose her fright about everything and become normal and had forgotten how scary the world can be.

Connie, I'm so sorry. Neyla was a spook when I got her too - she wouldn't even go outside to go to the bathroom when I started fostering her (she would either have an accident or hold it for about 12 hours and then I could finally get her out just to pee and come right back in). She went from that to a "normal" dog aside from a few small things. People who would come over would never have guessed. So I totally understand the special bond that you have helping a dog like that blossom into a happy, loving, playful dog. It's one of hte many reasons Neyla was and always will be my heart dog. I know we're one of the people that got more than the average time, but I hope it helps a little to know that I understand where you're coming from.

 

Kyle, you better keep posting Charlie pics, or else.

 

Oh, hey Kyle, have you heard from Shannon at all recently? I need to send her a PM. I miss her in here, but understand why she wouldn't want to stop in as often.

[greysmom]

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!! Silly mutt!

 

Won't eat hamburger (unless it's from McDonald's!). Won't eat pieces of chicken breast. Won't eat special lamb meatballs. Turns up his nose at rice and broth. Barely chokes down a scrambled egg with shake cheese on it like he's really doing me a favor.

But put a paper bowl of plain kibble in front of him and he eats like mad.

 

I'm way over-thinking this, I guess!

[RedFawnMom]

I'm sorry to hear Dude had a rough night, but so glad to hear he's enjoying his kibble!

 

Jen, I can't believe it's been two months. I remember the video you posted of Neyla opening a present a few weeks before you let her go...seeing her tearing into it so neatly made me smile. I'm so sorry she's gone.

 

Connie, you're right, it's not fair. I'm trying to remember that we're lucky that amp was an option, that it could be worse, and trying to be grateful for the things we do have in our favor. But still, it's not fair, and it sucks. I'm sorry you didn't have more time with Gypsy.

 

Kyle, I think everyone here loves Charlie pics. Please don't hold back!

 

 

Lucy and I are seeing an oncologist at Angell Memorial in Boston tomorrow morning. It's possible she'll have her first chemo treatment if the dr. thinks it's ok to take the staples out (the vet who did the surgery said tomorrow would be the earliest they could possibly come out and that the oncologist could decide) unless there's some other reason that would require us to wait (I thought they had to be off NSAID's for a few days?). I hope to get the chemo from OSU but if she can start tomorrow, we'll just pay for it, and hopefully get the remaining doses from OSU.

 

So, wish us luck for a good visit. Boston is a little over two hours away and I have to take Lucy by myself and I'm nervous. My husband has been taking a lot of time off/working at home and couldn't re-schedule his meetings and I didn't want to put it off until next week. I literally JUST started driving again yesterday, after 8 weeks of not being able to and I'm not steady on my ankle when walking, so I hope she's not able to pull as much on leash as she used to on four legs! And there's no way I can lift her into the car by myself and I don't think she's ready to jump yet. I *think* I can get her down, but not up, so I'm REALLY hoping someone at the clinic will be willing to come help me put her in the car.

 

She had a good day today. She only had one Tramadol with breakfast and seemed great all day with the gaba (upped to twice a day) and more like herself. My husband was home with her in the afternoon and said she went out and laid in the sun on the deck and looked so happy. She did start to pant a little before bedtime so I gave her another Tramadol, but we're down to 2 tablets today, compared to six.

[greysmom]

Good luck tomorrow!! We'll be sending good thoughts!

[NeylasMom]

Jess, that is a good Lucy report. I'm sure someone at the clinic will help you get her inside. that she's okayed for her first chemo and it goes well.

 

Chris, I laughed at your food story. Neyla was raw fed pretty much from when I adopted her, although she was fed kibble as my foster. Anyway, when she started t ohave her kidney issues, I started cooking. At the end, the only thing she would eat with relish was what we had started with - a bowl full of kibble soaked in water.

 

 

I actually spent some time yesterday rewatching those videos like the one Jess mentioned. I realized I posted this one to FB but you guys might also be interested in seeing it:

. It's just a short clip of her playing with Tasha at my friend's cabin in Maine. It was absolutely her favorite place to be. When I found this video I really lost it, she just looks so happy.

 

Speaking of Tash, they've decided to do cyber-knife radiation for her tumor. It's crazy expensive, similar to stereotactic radiation for osteo if anyone looked into that or remembers me mentioning it, and they have to go to Yonkers to do it, but teh hope is that it removes her tumor completely. Dave will be taking her up on Monday to start the process and will be there all week. I may go up for one night later on when she's actually having the radiation.

[cmc333]

I didn't mean to make anyone feel bad because their dog's situation was better than Gypsy's. I am SO glad that there are dogs that can have the amputation and live pain free for a long long time. And I'm glad that people get more time with their hounds versus less time. It's a victory for everyone when one dog is cured or saved. I think I am just a selfish person who is a whiner.

 

Seriously, keep the good news and the pix coming. The pix and good news is bittersweet to me, but still sweet. I'm certainly glad everyone's story didn't end like mine. And I know there are people out there that wish they would have had the month and 2 days I had with Gypsy. There's always someone worse off than you are.

 

And oh yes, Gypsy was special. We had decided to take her back to GPA and return her, since her spookiness w/ DH was so bad. She wouldn't even come into the house if she could see him in the house. We just would keep the door open, so she could sneak in and hide in her crate without having us notice. Anyhoo, on the day we had make the arrangement to take her back, when I got out of the shower that morning, Gypsy came into the bedroom and play-bowed to me. I was in absolute tears at the thought of returning her, after she had been brave enough to venture into the bedroom, what alone play-bow to me. So DH came home at noon like planned and I called Catherine at GPA and asked if we could try a little bit longer. And I'm so glad we did. Gypsy was totally happy with us, especially after we moved up to the mountains. She was sort of nervous in new situations, but she was a regular comedian with DH, me and the LWF's. I guess that's what is most important, that Gypsy was so happy with us, after having been such a scared spook for the first part of her life.

 

But please, more good stories and happy pix. I shouldn't have even said what I did...it was just a low moment for me.

 

Connie

 

And Jen - your Neyla always reminded me of Gypsy. She was a tuxedo with 3 little black spots on the white above her nose. Neyla and Gypsy had the same look in their eyes too.