Robin Is A Total Mess--Our Poor Baby

[grey14me]

Hoping everything goes well tomorrow :hope

[fsugrad]

Hopefully the vet school will have some answers :hope

 

I can't recall, but did you ever do a tick panel or SNAP test on him?

Yes, although he was positive for ehrlichia (and received treatment) when he first came out of JCKC, he had a SNAP test done a month ago and it was negative for ehrlichia.

[Guest KennelMom]

Just something to think about and possibly bring up with the vet school - Our boy Grandpa (fellow JCKC grad) had an auto-immune condition secondary to his tick disease. He was on a low dose of doxy his entire life. If he came off the doxy, his auto-immune issue would flair up and he'd get scabby, mostly around his orifices (eyes, nose, butt, ears, mouth), but also on his feet and chest...he'd go back on the doxy and it went away. Our vet at the time (in NC) consulted with one of the TBD experts at NC State and they advised that this can happen - auto-immune issues secondary to tick disease, even if there is no active infection from the tick disease itself. Also, there is thinking is that once infected with a ehrlichia, the dog may always be vulnerable to it, as it can reside deep in the tissues like bone marrow. And, of course, a SNAP can have a false negative.

Edited September 16, 2010 by KennelMom

[fsugrad]

Just something to think about and possibly bring up with the vet school - Our boy Grandpa (fellow JCKC grad) had an auto-immune condition secondary to his tick disease. He was on a low dose of doxy his entire life. If he came off the doxy, his auto-immune issue would flair up and he'd get scabby, mostly around his orifices (eyes, nose, butt, ears, mouth), but also on his feet and chest...he'd go back on the doxy and it went away. Our vet at the time (in NC) consulted with one of the TBD experts at NC State and they advised that this can happen - auto-immune issues secondary to tick disease, even if there is no active infection from the tick disease itself. Also, there is thinking is that once infected with a ehrlichia, the dog may always be vulnerable to it, as it can reside deep in the tissues like bone marrow. And, of course, a SNAP can have a false negative.

Thanks for the input. Doxy is one of the things I actually want to talk to the UF vets about. Robin's on cephalexin and our vet didn't think he needed to be switched to Doxy and switching him to Doxy was one of Pam's suggestions as well.

Your description of Grandpa sounds a lot like Robin. He's scabby (and bald) around his eyes, ears, the bridge of his nose, and insides of his legs. His chest was scabby but that seems to be healing up nicely. The rest of his body looks perfectly fine...albeit a bit skinny these days.

[Guest KennelMom]

Oh yes, I forgot, Grandpa would scab up in his armpits too...I'll see if I can find a pic so you can see what that looked like

 

I know I had more pics, but Lord only knows where I have them stored...Here's one that shows his eyes...and this was in the healing stage. The first time we ever saw it, they kinda burst out from no where. He was rubbing his face a lot one day, the next day he had a couple scabs and then the next day he looked like a lizard

 

 

Grandpa could not tolerate prednisone...it turned him in to a skeleton.

Edited September 16, 2010 by KennelMom

[DaisyDoodle]

Rita, have you contacted Dr Couto? I wonder if he's ever seen anything similar in the galgo population in Spain, or in GHs in the US? How about the UF greyhound specialist?

 

I agree with others that the pred could cause weight loss. It can also cause muscle wasting.

 

Please give Robin a kiss for me. I love that beautiful cow doggie.

[fsugrad]

Rita, have you contacted Dr Couto? I wonder if he's ever seen anything similar in the galgo population in Spain, or in GHs in the US? How about the UF greyhound specialist?

 

I agree with others that the pred could cause weight loss. It can also cause muscle wasting.

 

Please give Robin a kiss for me. I love that beautiful cow doggie.

Thanks Donna.

I haven't contacted Dr Couto.

Yes, Dr Crawford at UF knows what's going on. She recommended he come in for a dermatology consult. He is having a dermatology and an internal medicine consult tomorrow.

Alas, Dr Crawford doesn't see patients. She is strictly a researcher.

 

Well I would definitely say he's had muscle wasting. His back thigh muscles look rather deflated and flat, where they used to be defined.

[Guest Gert]

Rita,

 

I'm so sorry that you still don't have any answers for Robin!

 

Hopefully UF can get to the bottom of this.

[robinw]

I'm sorry Robin isn't doing better and I hope today's appointment went well. The wasting away made me think of what happened to Phene because of babesia. Has Robin been tested for that? I'm sorry; it must be confusing to have so many people suggesting things

[duncan41]

:hope :hope Hoping and praying that UF will have an answer.

[CaliforniaGreys]

Thinking of you two this morning and hoping for good news today

[Guest Ohiogreymom]

Any word yet?

[krissn333]

Just checking in for news...

[fsugrad]

Thanks everyone for your concern and your prayers and good thoughts.

Robin spent most of the day at the UF Vet School. They were wonderful. They spent tons of time explaining everything to me and answering all my questions. He had extensive lab work done today, and they also did a biopsy. They didn't have to knock him out to do the biopsy. They just sedated him and then used lidocaine in the 3 areas they biopsied.

All of his blood and urine work came out fine. We won't get the results of the biopsy til Wednesday, unfortunately. But after being looked at by several experts in internal medicine as well as dermatology, their best bet is that he has pemphigus.

The biopsy results can tell us for sure if he has pemphigus, discoid lupus, or systemic lupus...maybe some other things but those are the big 3 I can remember. They biopsied his left ear, left side of his face, and the inside of one of his front legs.

So for now he is continuing with his cephalexin and he's back on prednisone once a day to make sure he stays comfortable, and they gave him tramadol for pain if needed.

And they told me that I should feed him more than his usual amt since he's lost 5 lbs. When he came home he would not eat his kibble but I thawed a steak out for him and he scarfed the whole thing down, along with a piece of bread and some cheese! I hope that's ok. I had to get food in him. He was hungry and just didn't feel like kibble.

So hopefully we'll have some definitive diagnosis on Wed and then we can come up with a treatment plan.

[Batmom]

Hoping the docs come up with some good news and good treatment options for you.

 

I'd feed him whatever his system will tolerate, that you can afford .

[fsugrad]

Hoping the docs come up with some good news and good treatment options for you.

 

I'd feed him whatever his system will tolerate, that you can afford .

I just hope I'm not creating a monster that will only eat steak.

And you know, pretty soon Toby will catch on to the steak thing and he won't be willing to eat kibble either!

[Batmom]

FWIW, when Batman was ill and got all kinds of special meals (many times per day), I just reduced Zema's regular food a bit and gave her one bite (as in, a teaspoon) each time he was fed. When Zema developed an odd food sensitivity and began eating mostly beef, I used the same meat for Joseph's "canned" add-in. His food smelled like hers, so no problem.

 

Then again, I seem to have dogs who will eat anything, any time, so YMMV. But I bet once he's feeling better he'll be back to his old hungry self. Fingers crossed!

[Guest racergirl435]

Good thoughts for good results.

[4greyhounds]

Sending lots of prayers for Good Results.... :hope

[seeh2o]

It must be a relief to have a working diagnosis and a great medical team behind you. Good boy, eating up all that yummy steak!

[krissn333]

I'm glad you're on your way to something definitive. The treatment for all three is pretty much the same - prednisone to get it under control, then maintain with tetracycline and a bunch of vitamins. Course of pred for flareups. Not expensive at all.

 

If he's not already, try to keep him grain free. Dogs and people with lupus have an easier time with their skin when grains aren't involved. Pinky does great on TOTW Pacific Stream. In the 3 years I've had her, she's had to take a course of prednisone twice to get a flare under control. As long as I keep her controlled with her meds she does great.

 

Another thing would be to keep him out of the sun for extended periods of time. It can cause a flare up (plus being on prednisone + sun isn't a good idea).

 

Hugs to you and your boy

[45MPHK9]

glad you guys are on the road to getting some answers. how lucky to have such a great vet school right in town. we'll look for more news from you next week. hugs to robin, one of our favorite cow doggies on GT.

[Guest Greytluv]

I'm so glad you're getting some answers. Keep us posted.

[Guest kydie]

thank goodness you are on the road to an answer,,,,

[Guest argolola]

U of F Medical School is great. We took Lola there to have her eye surgery (with Seminole license plate and all) back in 2007.

 

I haven't read the entire thread, but regarding the food, I have a few suggestions. Both of my pups have had pancreatitis, although we thought we fed them right. Now I cook the "canned food" for them and they eat every morsel. I throw everything in a large pot, add water, bring it to a boil, then turn down the heat and let simmer. Also, they get Vanilla Ensure (2 docs have approved it) and it really puts weight back on them when they are down.

 

Ingredients to mix and match (you can use any, all or just a few ingredients-even add others of your own choice)

 

Beef hearts (ask the meat man to chop into small squares)

lean ground beef

ground turkey meat (light)

brown rice

wheat orzo

white rice

wheat pasta

white pasta

carrots

green beans (canned unsalted)

yellow squash

any other dog-safe veggies

 

Please keep us posted on how he's doing.