Osteo Diagnosis

[joejoesmom]

Whizzer is free of pain now. Maybe tomorrow or the next day I'll be able to post in Remembrance.

I am so sorry Jen.

 

Jane

[NeylasMom]

Jen, I am so sorry. I know you fought hard for Whizzer. I'm sorry you couldn't have more time together.

 

 

Wow, $10K in the Hope for Hounds auction, that is awesome!

 

We're limpy again, but today was a "full" day so I'm not letting myself get worked up, especially since Neyla seems pretty unbothered by it overall. I needed to get blood work done for her so i made arrangements ahead of time to have the tech come out to our car - less stress and no getting in and out of the car. Went well overall, still terrified during the draw, but it was over so much faster. 15 minutes later I get a call, their machine broke and they don't have enough blood to send it to the lab so we have to go back and do it again. This time the vet came out and did it himself, from her neck, so it went more smoothly. All in all, I think this was much easier on Neyla both physically and emotionally. My vets are going to get so tired of me, as if they aren't already.

 

Shannon, how is Flash doing?

[Guest 4rooers]

I'm so sorry about Whizzer.

[Guest greytfulhounds]

Whizzer is free of pain now. Maybe tomorrow or the next day I'll be able to post in Remembrance.

 

I am so very sorry.

[Charlies_Dad]

Jen,

 

One more week to go and it will be Neyla's 6mth anniversary post diagnosis,correct? Way to go Jen and Neyla you are one brave and tough warrior!!! So what's in store for Neyla on her special day???

[NeylasMom]

Jen,

 

One more week to go and it will be Neyla's 6mth anniversary post diagnosis,correct? Way to go Jen and Neyla you are one brave and tough warrior!!! So what's in store for Neyla on her special day???

Yep, you have it right! Thanks for remembering.

 

I haven't decided what we're doing yet. I've been thinking it would be nice to have a couple of her favorite doggie pals (and their owners, who happen to be some of my closest friends) over for some doggie treats for the pups and bubbly for the humans. But then I sometimes think I'm not up for it, or she may not be. I guess we'll have to play it by ear.

 

How's Charlie doing? I assume no news is good news and the Palladia isn't causing any nasty side effects for him?

[Guest ChasesMum]

I say celebrate it, even if she is having an off day. You won't get another chance!

 

Jenmm I am so sorry to hear about Whizzer. :

 

It was 3 months ago just before Halloween that we lost Miss Chase. I think about her every day, but it definitley is easier than it was those first weeks. But I still miss her terribly. I'd love to get another dog but she was pretty special and so wonderful with the kids (and those kids are currently VERY time consuming!) and its just not the right time for our family which sucks. Doesnt stop me looking at the adoption website *shhh*

[Guest jenmm]

Thanks all for the kind words and the support. They do mean a lot.

 

I find myself counting my dogs at every mealtime and snacktime. Though Yankee has been keeping me moving. He's got a hematoma on his right front leg joint, so we were at the vet this week with him.

 

Glad to hear Neyla's 6 month is coming up.

 

And hope Charlie is still doing well.

[Guest 4rooers]

Rippa seems to be going downhill faster than I thought she would. She couldn't tolerate the bone stasis (diarrhea) and she is barely using her left leg. I have upped the tramadol. She is still eating and wanting to go for walks( short on level ground). I spoke with a communicator I've used in the past and Rippa told her she wanted to go when she was no longer herself. It's so hard to watch her limp get worse and worse, but she isn't showing much pain. I know its better to let her leave before she is in agony, but I'm afraid to send her too soon. This is so much harder than with Ozzie, he let me know he was ready and I fear Rippa will hold on for me until its unbearable. Thank you all for being here. It helps to have somewhere to go where people understand.

Kim

[Charlies_Dad]

Jen, Charlie is doing fine, thanks for asking. No side effects from Palladia other than the dent in my pocketbook. While I like there is now a 'dog cancer' drug, Pfizer will make a fortune off it at the prices they are asking. If it does what it may do, then no complaints from here as it is my choice for using it.

 

Kim, I am sorry to hear that Rippa is not doing well. This disease is hideous and can move very quickly. I hope you still have many more happy times with her and that when it is time, she does tell you in her way.

[Guest greytfulhounds]

Rippa seems to be going downhill faster than I thought she would. She couldn't tolerate the bone stasis (diarrhea) and she is barely using her left leg. I have upped the tramadol. She is still eating and wanting to go for walks( short on level ground). I spoke with a communicator I've used in the past and Rippa told her she wanted to go when she was no longer herself. It's so hard to watch her limp get worse and worse, but she isn't showing much pain. I know its better to let her leave before she is in agony, but I'm afraid to send her too soon. This is so much harder than with Ozzie, he let me know he was ready and I fear Rippa will hold on for me until its unbearable. Thank you all for being here. It helps to have somewhere to go where people understand.

Kim

 

I am so, so sorry this is happening to you & Rippa. Having just had to make that decision for Danny I understand how this tears you apart. Just follow your heart, you will know & when you do you will be at peace with the decision. Watch your girl for signs in her eyes, in her zest for life, they will be there. Keeping you both in my heart & prayers.

[Guest greytfulhounds]

Thanks all for the kind words and the support. They do mean a lot.

 

I find myself counting my dogs at every mealtime and snacktime. Though Yankee has been keeping me moving. He's got a hematoma on his right front leg joint, so we were at the vet this week with him.

 

Glad to hear Neyla's 6 month is coming up.

 

And hope Charlie is still doing well.

 

Me too, I keep catching myself trying to put down Danny's feeding station at meal time & I keep thinking that one dog is still in the yard or house when I do turnout....then it hits me. Sometimes wish I would stop doing it but other times am afraid if I stop I will forget him. Sending you a hug & hoping the pain gets easier for you.

[Guest FastDogsOwnMe]

My heart is with you all... I thought I would stop by and give my love.

 

We miss Rose every day. She would have so loved these first not-hot days of the season. She'd have been running around like mad.

[Batmom]

am afraid if I stop I will forget him.

 

You won't ever forget. He's a part of your soul now, forever.

 

Hugs to you and all the others who are missing their loves this morning.

[NeylasMom]

Thanks all for the kind words and the support. They do mean a lot.

 

I find myself counting my dogs at every mealtime and snacktime. Though Yankee has been keeping me moving. He's got a hematoma on his right front leg joint, so we were at the vet this week with him.

 

Glad to hear Neyla's 6 month is coming up.

 

And hope Charlie is still doing well.

 

Me too, I keep catching myself trying to put down Danny's feeding station at meal time & I keep thinking that one dog is still in the yard or house when I do turnout....then it hits me. Sometimes wish I would stop doing it but other times am afraid if I stop I will forget him. Sending you a hug & hoping the pain gets easier for you.

 

 

My heart is with you all... I thought I would stop by and give my love.

 

We miss Rose every day. She would have so loved these first not-hot days of the season. She'd have been running around like mad.

to all 3 of you.

 

Sherry, you will never forget Danny, don't you worry about that. He will always be in your heart. I've had a few suggestions to make a list of all of the things that I love about Neyla before she's gone so I don't forget them. It would probably be painful now, but mabye doing something like that, or even recording them in a remembrance thread would help ease your fears about that. While he'll always be with you, I'm sure some details will fade and having something like that might be nice.

 

Kyle, great that Charlie continues to do well. I didn't really Palladia was being marketed as a doggie drug, that kind of sucks really for the reason you mentioned. Hopefully Dr. Couto's team will be able to include that in their group of drugs they provide for retired racers free of charge some time in the future so other dogs can benefit from it.

 

Yesterday was a ** day for us, screw up with our oncology team and then Neyla had been having some rough days so I gave her a Deramaxx boost - came home to find her SO improved that she went bounding through teh condo before I could stop her and the limp was back full force. She's doing much better this moring though. The vet and I decided to increase her Tramadol again and if that isn't sufficient, I think we're going to pursue the pamidronate treatment, whch speaking of expensive, I'm not sure how I'm going to pay for...

 

Rippa's mom, I'm sorry, I can't remember, are you only using Tramadol? Or are you giving an NSAID and/or Gabapentin? I'm sorry you're struggling with this.

[Guest 4rooers]

Called the vet this AM and got gabapentin 100mg. Just gave Rippa one. She is taking Tramadol 3x daily 100mg and Rimadyl 50mg 2x daily. I'm hoping the gabapentin will kick in, she is starting to yelp with position changes, but not when I'm in the room with her.

[Guest jenmm]

Sherry,

Hoping it gets easier for you too. I think especially with multiples, the dogs may grieve faster than the humans. Or they don't show it outwardly. Whizzer's brothers seem a little more clingy, but not upset any more.

 

 

Rippa's mom,

Enjoy every moment with Rippa. She'll show you a sign. It's difficult because as emotional as greyhounds can be, they can still put up a shell at times. I found that very true. But I could really tell when Whizzer had too much pain and suffering. It hurt me to make the decision, but I felt she wasn't in pain afterwards. It's one of the hardest decisions I've ever made. Hoping it's not for awhile.

[Guest vahoundlover]

Rippa seems to be going downhill faster than I thought she would. She couldn't tolerate the bone stasis (diarrhea) and she is barely using her left leg. I have upped the tramadol. She is still eating and wanting to go for walks( short on level ground). I spoke with a communicator I've used in the past and Rippa told her she wanted to go when she was no longer herself. It's so hard to watch her limp get worse and worse, but she isn't showing much pain. I know its better to let her leave before she is in agony, but I'm afraid to send her too soon. This is so much harder than with Ozzie, he let me know he was ready and I fear Rippa will hold on for me until its unbearable. Thank you all for being here. It helps to have somewhere to go where people understand.

Kim

 

 

Kim I am sorry:grouphug You know your baby girl so well, you will know when it's time.

[Guest vahoundlover]

My love to all of you, I hate that this damn disease is/has effected so many lives.

 

 

Sher, you will never forget Danny, we have so many pictures and memories of him. never in a million years will we forget our special fella.

[lflaherty45]

I need your support and advise. About 2 months ago our beautiful black Thor had a soft tissue scacoma removed from his lip and the vet is sure it got it all so we felt this time we beat cancer.

 

We are leaving Monday for vacation and Thor started limping, holding up his paw, we thought it twisted it in the yard. Quick call to our vet, they saw him right away. While she was examining his leg, just at the shoulder area he yipped. Took an xray and it showed whesre the bone is a little "moth eaten"

well, we know what that means. We have lost one of our wonderfuld greys to osteo in 2008,2009 and another form of cancer this year.

 

I could have fallen off the chair, Thor showed no problems with that leg until now. The vet who does the bone biopsy will be back in 2 weeks.

 

In the meantime, do you suggest I ask them to send copies of the xray to Dr. Couto or wait until the biopsy is done. My problem is that I have been told

that procedure can be very painful for them. Thor is 10 and I just do not want to hurt him. Clark had his back leg amputated (if you have the CG 2010 calendar he is the beautiful brindle boy in the small picutes just inside). To amputate Thors' front leg is not something I am looking forward too.

 

Can someone tell me the address where they could send his information to Dr. Couto. This is just tearing me apart, I don't know which way to go and I have no choice but to leave tomarrow, Thor will be in good hands while we are away but I feel so very, very guilty.

 

Linda

[teri_d]

My Grey started limping, so we called the vet and they said to give it a day and see if it gets better. The next day it seemed better, as he was putting more weight on it, but than the following day he began favoring the leg again. The vet took X-Rays and showed us two things: one was a slight bulge/spur of the bone and the other were 2 little black marks on the bone. The vet said she didn't want to worry us, but it could be cancer. She said since the dog is young and and cancer doesn't usually appear in that spot, that it might not be cancer. She gave us some anti-inflammatories and antibiotics and told us to come back in 2 weeks for more xrays. I don't know if she was giving us her full thoughts, though, and after reading all about osteosarcoma some of the symptoms seem to match. They ordered 3 xrays, and only showed us 2, so I'm also wondering if the third was one of his lungs. I might be overreacting, but it just seems that the vet wasn't telling us everything and were all a bit worried now.

I am sorry that you might be facing this. Your vet probably isn't withholding anything. Like other's have said, the 3rd x-ray probably didn't show anything.

 

Unfortunately osteosarcoma symptoms are very similar or even the same as symptoms from many other more minor causes. But with a large breed like a greyhound, it is always wise to be on the safe side and take x-rays. Since your vet saw something somewhat suspicious on the x-rays, I would definitely have them looked at by an oncologist. Dr. Couto's team at OSU will look at x-rays at no charge. You or your vet would need to e-mail them (if digital) or mail them to OSU. I will follow this message with my standard information on the OSU Greyhound Program.

 

You asked if the symptoms could come and go if it was OS. Yes, in the early stages especially, the limping can come and go. But it can do that for many other reasons also.

 

It would be unusual for a 5 year old to get cancer, but it certainly has happened. The abnormalities on the x-rays could be signs of cancer, or they could be signs of an old racing injury or any number of things. So don't panic for now.

 

If it is osteo, there are treatments available. Feel free to call me and I can do my best to answer questions for you. My number is 614-523-0754.

 

Jane

 

Here is info on the OSU program:

 

The email or phone consult is free, however a few people have been told they must sign up for the website ($50) and submit the request that way. Dr. Couto tells me that this is not true. However, if you are a member of their website, please submit your request that way because it will automate things and make record keeping for them easier. Certain chemo drugs are free; you would need to pay to have them administered.

 

Greyhound Health and Wellness Program

Ohio State University College of Veterinary Medicine

601 Vernon Tharp Street

Columbus, Ohio 43210

Phone: (614) 247-6757 or (614) 247-8490

Email: greyosu@osu.edu

Website: http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/GHWP.htm (registration and fee now required to get full access to this site)

 

This email goes to the team. If Dr. Couto is traveling, you may get a quicker answer from one of his team members. Drs. Marin and Zaldivar typically respond to greyhound owners. The consult is free but if you can afford to support the program please do so. You can sign up for full access to the website ($99 per calendar year) or donate through the giving page on the website. If you decide to donate, you can double your money by giving through the Greyhound Project. Just go to this website and scroll down to the appropriate donation button: http://www.adopt-a-greyhound.org/donate.shtml. They will match the funds that you donate.

 

The Team:

 

Dr. Couto, Department Head, Greyhound Medicine, Oncology and Hematology

Dr. Lili Marin, Greyhound Health and Oncology

Dr. Sara Zaldivar, Greyhound Health and Oncology

Dr. William Kisselberth, Oncology

Dr. Cheryl London, Oncology

Dr. Cristina Iazbik, Blood Bank Director and Hematologist

Dr. Bridget Urie, Oncology Resident

Dr. Matt Sherger, Oncology Resident

Dr. Joelle Fenger, Oncology Resident

Dr. Roberta Portela, Oncology Resident

Dawn Hudson, Vet Tech

Ashley DeFelice, Vet Tech

Stacey Gallant, Vet Tech

 

Drs Marin and Zaldivar are originally from Spanish speaking countries. If you have trouble understanding them over the phone, you might ask for one of the other vets or vet techs to translate.

 

Dr. Couto's direct email is:

couto.1@osu.edu

His phone number is also 614-247-6757. If he is in town, he typically returns emails in the early hours of the morning.

 

You should know that (in my humble opinion) they need more staff. Unfortunately finances do not permit it at this time. They do 20 to 30 greyhound consults a day along with all of their "in canine" patients. Depending on their workload there may be a wait for the consultation. If you are contacting them on an emergency basis, please let them know.

If you want to make an appointment to be seen in person/canine, you can call the main number to set up a date/time. The main number for the veterinary hospital is 614-292-3551.

 

If you decide to visit OSU please contact me. I may be able to put you up in a local home, provide moral support, or just help with logistics:

 

Finewhipador-drool@yahoo.com

 

 

 

linda --here you go - i would not wait 2 weeks to contact - sorry for your x-ray, but glad you have found this thread - you will find help, support, advice, and much needed friends here

Edited November 7, 2010 by teri_d

[NeylasMom]

Linda, I agree, don't wait. Unless your in the SW, moth eaten bone accompanied by pain like that is almost always osteo. If you're in teh southwest, you can test for Valley Fever.

 

I wouldn't do a biopsy. If you want to confirm the dx pathologically you can do a fine needle aspiration (FNA), which has much less risk of fracturing the bone and can still provide you with confirmation. It is also often done without anesthesia, unlike the biopsy. However, if your course of action would be to amputate, you might just want to schedule the surgery based on the x-ray provided Dr. Couto confirms that way. Time is of the essence with this disease so I would try to make decisions quickly if you can.

 

I'm so sorry you're going through this again, and that the timing of it coincides with you needing to leave. Have you instructed whoever will be watching him that he shouldn't be running or jumping to reduce risk of fracture until you can get things sorted out? Also, has your vet given you pain meds with instructions on how to increase if they aren't controlling his pain?

 

[Charlies_Dad]

Linda,

 

I am so very sorry to hear about Thor. Unfortunately as you likely know and what others have stated, Osteo can be very aggressive and regardless of which path you choose, pain management vs. amputation, something needs to be done for him as soon as feasible. It is very inconvenient that this has to happen just when you're leaving on vacation. I understand your concern about front leg amputation but others have been through it and their pups have done okay. Again, I am so sorry that Thor likely has Osteo.

[lflaherty45]

Thank you. Thor is on Rimaydl 75 mg 2X a day. I will contact our vet's office Monday AM and ask them to get in touch with OSU. Again, thank you for all the information.

 

Linda

[joejoesmom]

Thank you. Thor is on Rimaydl 75 mg 2X a day. I will contact our vet's office Monday AM and ask them to get in touch with OSU. Again, thank you for all the information.

 

Linda

Linda,

 

I live in central Ohio, or as I like to call it, Coutoland. If I can be of any assistance please let me know. My number is 614-523-0754.

 

If you are considering amputation, time is of the essence. Bone tumors grow very quickly. The longer you wait the more chance it has to invade the lungs. If there is any way you or another adult could stay home and have the amputation done, I would recommend that. I see you are in Maryland. There are others there who have driven to OSU for the amputation. We have local greyhound owners who can put you up in their homes and give you emotional support. If you decide to do this please let me know as soon as possible so I can make arrangements. In any case, if you do amputate, do it in a hospital that has 24/7 ICU care following OSU protocol.

 

If you are not going to do amputation immediately, just be sure that your sitter has all of the vet information along with information how to interpret that Thor is in pain (usually panting, restlessness, or actual whining).

 

In any case, you should also ask your vet for a script for Tramadol, 50 mg. You can usually get this filled at a human pharmacy for $4 for 60 tablets (here you can get that price at Kroger's and WalMart will match the Kroger price). Ask him for a starting dosage (usually one every 12 hours to start) and a maximum dosage. This way you can be sure that you have the appropriate pain managemnet in place if Thor needs it. The Tramadol works with the NSAID (Rimadyl) so you give both when appropriate. You should also get famotidine (Pepcid). The typical dose is 20 mg given 15 minute before meals twice a day. This helps protect the stomach from the Rimadyl. The Rimadyl should be given with food. Be aware that tramadol can cause panting and restlessness in some dogs. These are the same symptoms as pain. So it is important to make note of when the tramadol is given and see if the panting etc gets worse or better about an hour after giving it. If Thor is having this negative reaction, the vet can prescribe something different. Most dogs do okay with the tramadol though.

 

Another drug worth mentioning is gabapentin. This works for nerve pain. It is often started if the NSAID + tramadol don't take care of the pain. It has few side affects.

 

I am so sorry you are facing this. My Joe had his leg amputated on July 28 of this year. It is a totally crappy disease that needs to be wiped off the face of this planet. My best wishes and prayers are with you, your family, and Thor.

 

Jane