Osteo Diagnosis

[Guest racergirl435]

My Grey started limping, so we called the vet and they said to give it a day and see if it gets better. The next day it seemed better, as he was putting more weight on it, but than the following day he began favoring the leg again. The vet took X-Rays and showed us two things: one was a slight bulge/spur of the bone and the other were 2 little black marks on the bone. The vet said she didn't want to worry us, but it could be cancer. She said since the dog is young and and cancer doesn't usually appear in that spot, that it might not be cancer. She gave us some anti-inflammatories and antibiotics and told us to come back in 2 weeks for more xrays. I don't know if she was giving us her full thoughts, though, and after reading all about osteosarcoma some of the symptoms seem to match. They ordered 3 xrays, and only showed us 2, so I'm also wondering if the third was one of his lungs. I might be overreacting, but it just seems that the vet wasn't telling us everything.

 

I know how hard this can be. How old is your hound? Male or female? Where exactly were the "black marks"? How long has he/she been limping? What were the circumstances when he/she started limping? There are a lot of possibilities, so before you get too excited, think of the least worrisome possibilities first. Could it be that he/she simply sprained or twisted a joint?

 

It is my opinion that if your vet took 3 x-rays and only showed you 2, the 3rd x-ray probably wasn't conclusive enough to bother showing to you. Generally, vets do not withhold information. Also generally, they're not going to do a chest x-ray unless there is a reason to and I would assume that if the vet was concerned enough to want to do chest x-rays they would consult with you first.

 

There are a lot of possibilities, the most extreme of course being OS. Let's hope it's not that. Do keep us posted as I'm sure I can speak for others here in hoping that you do not join this club.

[Guest goldandgreen182]

The dog is a male and will be 5 in January. He just started limping and favoring his leg one morning, was fine the night before. I'm back at school now, but my sister said the limping was better today. If it is indeed osteosarcoma, will the limping get better like this and then start up again, or will it now never go away? When I asked the vet if it was cancer, what would be done all she said was that I was going to have to talk to a different vet about options, which wasn't really helpful, but maybe she thinks it isnt cancer. I dont know, I'm just super worried and nervous now, especially since we have only had him for a month now.

Edited October 25, 2010 by goldandgreen182

[Guest racergirl435]

Your vet is right to steer you to a different vet. Especially if he/she isn't familiar with greyhounds or cancer. It definitely might be smart to get a second opinion. I would say to see how your hound reacts to the anti-inflammatories and if the limping comes back or is worse to go from there. Don't worry yourself too much until you've had time to see how he will react to the meds your vet gave him. Where were the spurs/black spots? It is possible he could have just twisted an ankle or something. Our boy used to do that a lot. Where are you located? There might be someone here that can refer you to a greyhound and/or cancer vet.

[NeylasMom]

My Grey started limping, so we called the vet and they said to give it a day and see if it gets better. The next day it seemed better, as he was putting more weight on it, but than the following day he began favoring the leg again. The vet took X-Rays and showed us two things: one was a slight bulge/spur of the bone and the other were 2 little black marks on the bone. The vet said she didn't want to worry us, but it could be cancer. She said since the dog is young and and cancer doesn't usually appear in that spot, that it might not be cancer. She gave us some anti-inflammatories and antibiotics and told us to come back in 2 weeks for more xrays. I don't know if she was giving us her full thoughts, though, and after reading all about osteosarcoma some of the symptoms seem to match. They ordered 3 xrays, and only showed us 2, so I'm also wondering if the third was one of his lungs. I might be overreacting, but it just seems that the vet wasn't telling us everything and were all a bit worried now.

How old? Where are the issues on teh bone? Can you get digital copies of all of the x-rays and send them to Dr. Couto at OSU? At the very least, please call your vet and ask what the 3rd view was/what they saw. I can't imagine a vet would hide a dx so my guess is the 3rd x-ray was simply a lesser quality version fo the ones you saw, but if you don't trust your vet, which it sounds like you don't, you need to investigate for your pup's benefit. that it's not osteo.

 

 

Neyla is finally sacked. Her Uncle Dave came over, which meant lots of attention and also playing with toys (although we made sure she did so on her bed). Still, she was more active than I would have liked overall. She is still doing better than yesteday, not really bothered much by her limp, but it's still quite present so I remain scared. Please keep your fingers crossed that VOSM can fit us in tomorrow and the x-ray looks good.

[joejoesmom]

My Grey started limping, so we called the vet and they said to give it a day and see if it gets better. The next day it seemed better, as he was putting more weight on it, but than the following day he began favoring the leg again. The vet took X-Rays and showed us two things: one was a slight bulge/spur of the bone and the other were 2 little black marks on the bone. The vet said she didn't want to worry us, but it could be cancer. She said since the dog is young and and cancer doesn't usually appear in that spot, that it might not be cancer. She gave us some anti-inflammatories and antibiotics and told us to come back in 2 weeks for more xrays. I don't know if she was giving us her full thoughts, though, and after reading all about osteosarcoma some of the symptoms seem to match. They ordered 3 xrays, and only showed us 2, so I'm also wondering if the third was one of his lungs. I might be overreacting, but it just seems that the vet wasn't telling us everything and were all a bit worried now.

I am sorry that you might be facing this. Your vet probably isn't withholding anything. Like other's have said, the 3rd x-ray probably didn't show anything.

 

Unfortunately osteosarcoma symptoms are very similar or even the same as symptoms from many other more minor causes. But with a large breed like a greyhound, it is always wise to be on the safe side and take x-rays. Since your vet saw something somewhat suspicious on the x-rays, I would definitely have them looked at by an oncologist. Dr. Couto's team at OSU will look at x-rays at no charge. You or your vet would need to e-mail them (if digital) or mail them to OSU. I will follow this message with my standard information on the OSU Greyhound Program.

 

You asked if the symptoms could come and go if it was OS. Yes, in the early stages especially, the limping can come and go. But it can do that for many other reasons also.

 

It would be unusual for a 5 year old to get cancer, but it certainly has happened. The abnormalities on the x-rays could be signs of cancer, or they could be signs of an old racing injury or any number of things. So don't panic for now.

 

If it is osteo, there are treatments available. Feel free to call me and I can do my best to answer questions for you. My number is 614-523-0754.

 

Jane

 

Here is info on the OSU program:

 

The email or phone consult is free, however a few people have been told they must sign up for the website ($50) and submit the request that way. Dr. Couto tells me that this is not true. However, if you are a member of their website, please submit your request that way because it will automate things and make record keeping for them easier. Certain chemo drugs are free; you would need to pay to have them administered.

 

Greyhound Health and Wellness Program

Ohio State University College of Veterinary Medicine

601 Vernon Tharp Street

Columbus, Ohio 43210

Phone: (614) 247-6757 or (614) 247-8490

Email: greyosu@osu.edu

Website: http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/GHWP.htm (registration and fee now required to get full access to this site)

 

This email goes to the team. If Dr. Couto is traveling, you may get a quicker answer from one of his team members. Drs. Marin and Zaldivar typically respond to greyhound owners. The consult is free but if you can afford to support the program please do so. You can sign up for full access to the website ($99 per calendar year) or donate through the giving page on the website. If you decide to donate, you can double your money by giving through the Greyhound Project. Just go to this website and scroll down to the appropriate donation button: http://www.adopt-a-greyhound.org/donate.shtml. They will match the funds that you donate.

 

The Team:

 

Dr. Couto, Department Head, Greyhound Medicine, Oncology and Hematology

Dr. Lili Marin, Greyhound Health and Oncology

Dr. Sara Zaldivar, Greyhound Health and Oncology

Dr. William Kisselberth, Oncology

Dr. Cheryl London, Oncology

Dr. Cristina Iazbik, Blood Bank Director and Hematologist

Dr. Bridget Urie, Oncology Resident

Dr. Matt Sherger, Oncology Resident

Dr. Joelle Fenger, Oncology Resident

Dr. Roberta Portela, Oncology Resident

Dawn Hudson, Vet Tech

Ashley DeFelice, Vet Tech

Stacey Gallant, Vet Tech

 

Drs Marin and Zaldivar are originally from Spanish speaking countries. If you have trouble understanding them over the phone, you might ask for one of the other vets or vet techs to “translate”.

 

Dr. Couto's direct email is:

couto.1@osu.edu

His phone number is also 614-247-6757. If he is in town, he typically returns emails in the early hours of the morning.

 

You should know that (in my humble opinion) they need more staff. Unfortunately finances do not permit it at this time. They do 20 to 30 greyhound consults a day along with all of their "in canine" patients. Depending on their workload there may be a wait for the consultation. If you are contacting them on an emergency basis, please let them know.

If you want to make an appointment to be seen in person/canine, you can call the main number to set up a date/time. The main number for the veterinary hospital is 614-292-3551.

 

If you decide to visit OSU please contact me. I may be able to put you up in a local home, provide moral support, or just help with logistics:

 

Finewhipador-drool@yahoo.com

[Guest roselle]

My Grey started limping, so we called the vet and they said to give it a day and see if it gets better. The next day it seemed better, as he was putting more weight on it, but than the following day he began favoring the leg again. The vet took X-Rays and showed us two things: one was a slight bulge/spur of the bone and the other were 2 little black marks on the bone. The vet said she didn't want to worry us, but it could be cancer. She said since the dog is young and and cancer doesn't usually appear in that spot, that it might not be cancer. She gave us some anti-inflammatories and antibiotics and told us to come back in 2 weeks for more xrays. I don't know if she was giving us her full thoughts, though, and after reading all about osteosarcoma some of the symptoms seem to match. They ordered 3 xrays, and only showed us 2, so I'm also wondering if the third was one of his lungs. I might be overreacting, but it just seems that the vet wasn't telling us everything and were all a bit worried now.

I'm so sorry you have to suffer through two weeks of not knowing. My grey Gracy had the same history of the limp but on the 4th day she had swelling and it was painful if the vet touched it. When I saw the x-rays I almost fell over the tumor was huge and had grown into the soft tissue surrounding the bone mass. Four months earlier my vet thought she had bone cancer in her shoulder and it turned out to be nothing, so you never know. You can research the signs of osteosarcoma to see the location and what the x-ray looks like with the cancer, but it sounds like you may be one of the lucky ones. I'm going to send lots of positive thoughts. Try to hang in there for the next 2 weeks.

[Guest greytfulhounds]

Thinking of Neyla this morning & praying the x-rays are good.

[Guest azlorenz]

 

Neyla is finally sacked. Her Uncle Dave came over, which meant lots of attention and also playing with toys (although we made sure she did so on her bed). Still, she was more active than I would have liked overall. She is still doing better than yesteday, not really bothered much by her limp, but it's still quite present so I remain scared. Please keep your fingers crossed that VOSM can fit us in tomorrow and the x-ray looks good.

 

 

[Guest goldandgreen182]

Thank you all for the support. We're all keeping our fingers crossed for the next 2 weeks.

[NeylasMom]

Thank you all for the support. We're all keeping our fingers crossed for the next 2 weeks.

I really recommend sending the x-rays to Dr. Couto in the meantime. My vet also recommended waiting 2 weeks to see if there were changes, but others here encourage me to contact Dr C. and he responded the next day with confirmation of the dx. As devastating as the news was, I am glad I didn't wait 2 weeks to find out. Osteo is very aggressive and that is 2 weeks of treatment time we would have otherwise missed.

 

 

Thanks for the good wishes everyone. Our appt is at 1:45 today. I had to fight tooth and nail with the staff to get them to talk to the vet and get us in today. So frustrated, it feels like absolutely every single thing is an uphill battle for us. I also don't know how I'm going to afford the next 2 days - assuming the x-ray isn't disastrous and we are going to proceed with chiropractic and acupuncture consults. I think b/w those and the x-ray, I am looking at about $500 in vet fees.

[greyhounds1234]

I hope for good news for Nayla this afternoon, too.

[NeylasMom]

Unfortunately I don't have good news. The tumor is progressing. It was very clear on the x-ray. Based on what others who have gotten more time have said, I expect things will move quickly now although we will redouble our efforts anyway. I am going to post on the bone cancer dogs forum and look into switching or adding to the supplements we are using. I am in action mode, haven't let the reality of the situation sink in yet.

[Guest greytfulhounds]

Unfortunately I don't have good news. The tumor is progressing. It was very clear on the x-ray. Based on what others who have gotten more time have said, I expect things will move quickly now although we will redouble our efforts anyway. I am going to post on the bone cancer dogs forum and look into switching or adding to the supplements we are using. I am in action mode, haven't let the reality of the situation sink in yet.

 

 

I just got home & logged on to see if there was an update from you......NOT what I was hoping to hear! Stepping up the prayers & if there is ANYTHING I can do for you & Neyla, please ask.

 

Also, a box went out to you today with the items we talked about & it also contains 2 bottles of Buytrex which the woman from Holley said helps to enhance the Artemisinin......I had just opened one bottle & started to give it to Dan 2 days before he went to the Bridge so I can not say if I saw any type of difference. The box went priority mail so you should have it on Wednesday.

[greyhounds1234]

Unfortunately I don't have good news. The tumor is progressing. It was very clear on the x-ray. Based on what others who have gotten more time have said, I expect things will move quickly now although we will redouble our efforts anyway. I am going to post on the bone cancer dogs forum and look into switching or adding to the supplements we are using. I am in action mode, haven't let the reality of the situation sink in yet.

 

If you are needing more artemisinin, I have 3 unopened bottles and one that we had been using. I'll be more than happy to send it to you. We won't be needing it now.

 

We sent Bay to the Bridge a little while ago. She was in pain and started dragging her front foot last night. I could have kept her drugged up for a bit but thought it was best for her to let her go with dignity.

[NeylasMom]

 

If you are needing more artemisinin, I have 3 unopened bottles and one that we had been using. I'll be more than happy to send it to you. We won't be needing it now.

 

We sent Bay to the Bridge a little while ago. She was in pain and started dragging her front foot last night. I could have kept her drugged up for a bit but thought it was best for her to let her go with dignity.

I'm so sorry you had to let Bay go. I only hope I have your strength when it comes time to make that decision for Neyla.

 

And thank you for the offer of artemisinin, but at this point I'm afraid we won't even have enough time to use what Sherry is sending. There may be someone else on this board who could use it, or else you could post on the arte yahoo group.

[greyhounds1234]

 

If you are needing more artemisinin, I have 3 unopened bottles and one that we had been using. I'll be more than happy to send it to you. We won't be needing it now.

 

We sent Bay to the Bridge a little while ago. She was in pain and started dragging her front foot last night. I could have kept her drugged up for a bit but thought it was best for her to let her go with dignity.

I'm so sorry you had to let Bay go. I only hope I have your strength when it comes time to make that decision for Neyla.

 

And thank you for the offer of artemisinin, but at this point I'm afraid we won't even have enough time to use what Sherry is sending. There may be someone else on this board who could use it, or else you could post on the arte yahoo group.

 

I'm not on the arte yahoo group but the offer is good for anyone here or there who might need it. When I bought it, I was being very optimistic and bought 4 bottles (well, gee...they were on sale buy 3 get 1 free) so I'd be more than happy to share with anyone.

Edited October 25, 2010 by greyhounds1234

[Guest goldandgreen182]

I just talked to my sister who said the dog is walking fine on his leg now, which I guess is a good sign although it is probably just the medicine kicking in. I think I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and ask for the x-rays to send to OSU. Again, I thank you all for your help, I am glad I found this forum last night.

[Guest racergirl435]

Unfortunately I don't have good news. The tumor is progressing. It was very clear on the x-ray. Based on what others who have gotten more time have said, I expect things will move quickly now although we will redouble our efforts anyway. I am going to post on the bone cancer dogs forum and look into switching or adding to the supplements we are using. I am in action mode, haven't let the reality of the situation sink in yet.

 

Oh, I am so sorry to hear this. Every time I see a hound reaching this point, it just breaks my heart. Many many hugs to you and your sweet girl. It definitely is not an easy decision to let them cross, but I know you will make the right decision when it is time as your love for her is so obvious.

 

I just talked to my sister who said the dog is walking fine on his leg now, which I guess is a good sign although it is probably just the medicine kicking in. I think I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and ask for the x-rays to send to OSU. Again, I thank you all for your help, I am glad I found this forum last night.

 

I would highly recommend you do that. You just can't be too safe. What is your boy's name? We'd love to see a picture of him.

[Guest jenmm]

 

If you are needing more artemisinin, I have 3 unopened bottles and one that we had been using. I'll be more than happy to send it to you. We won't be needing it now.

 

We sent Bay to the Bridge a little while ago. She was in pain and started dragging her front foot last night. I could have kept her drugged up for a bit but thought it was best for her to let her go with dignity.

I'm so sorry you had to let Bay go. I only hope I have your strength when it comes time to make that decision for Neyla.

 

And thank you for the offer of artemisinin, but at this point I'm afraid we won't even have enough time to use what Sherry is sending. There may be someone else on this board who could use it, or else you could post on the arte yahoo group.

 

I'm not on the arte yahoo group but the offer is good for anyone here or there who might need it. When I bought it, I was being very optimistic and bought 4 bottles (well, gee...they were on sale buy 3 get 1 free) so I'd be more than happy to share with anyone.

I'd be happy to take you up on the offer. If we get the swelling down in Whizzer's foot. . .

 

Has anyone ever used Lasik for edema? Whizzer shoulder hasn't been all that bad, but her foot is really swelled up with fluid right now. The vet put her on some Lasik to help with the edema.

 

She's been eating well (better than before actually). She's been in pretty good spirits. She's been fairly comfortable, as she can be. . . .

[Charlies_Dad]

Unfortunately I don't have good news. The tumor is progressing. It was very clear on the x-ray. Based on what others who have gotten more time have said, I expect things will move quickly now although we will redouble our efforts anyway. I am going to post on the bone cancer dogs forum and look into switching or adding to the supplements we are using. I am in action mode, haven't let the reality of the situation sink in yet.

 

Jen,

 

This is not the news any of us wanted to hear, especially you. You have done wonders for Neyla and I really hope she continues to do well by your treatments. There is something that I hope will get to you this week for Neyla. We will keep both of you in our thoughts.

 

 

Kyle

[Guest roselle]

 

If you are needing more artemisinin, I have 3 unopened bottles and one that we had been using. I'll be more than happy to send it to you. We won't be needing it now.

 

We sent Bay to the Bridge a little while ago. She was in pain and started dragging her front foot last night. I could have kept her drugged up for a bit but thought it was best for her to let her go with dignity.

I'm so sorry you had to let Bay go. I only hope I have your strength when it comes time to make that decision for Neyla.

 

And thank you for the offer of artemisinin, but at this point I'm afraid we won't even have enough time to use what Sherry is sending. There may be someone else on this board who could use it, or else you could post on the arte yahoo group.

 

I'm not on the arte yahoo group but the offer is good for anyone here or there who might need it. When I bought it, I was being very optimistic and bought 4 bottles (well, gee...they were on sale buy 3 get 1 free) so I'd be more than happy to share with anyone.

I'd be happy to take you up on the offer. If we get the swelling down in Whizzer's foot. . .

 

Has anyone ever used Lasik for edema? Whizzer shoulder hasn't been all that bad, but her foot is really swelled up with fluid right now. The vet put her on some Lasik to help with the edema.

 

She's been eating well (better than before actually). She's been in pretty good spirits. She's been fairly comfortable, as she can be. . . .

Retrograde massage has worked for Gracy. You massage from the end of the foot up toward the heart, so from toe to knee. Incircle your hand around the foot and gently squeez and drag your hand toward the knee. Do this 10-15 times about 4 times a day. After each massage apply ice for 15 minutes. Good luck

[Guest roselle]

 

If you are needing more artemisinin, I have 3 unopened bottles and one that we had been using. I'll be more than happy to send it to you. We won't be needing it now.

 

We sent Bay to the Bridge a little while ago. She was in pain and started dragging her front foot last night. I could have kept her drugged up for a bit but thought it was best for her to let her go with dignity.

I'm so sorry you had to let Bay go. I only hope I have your strength when it comes time to make that decision for Neyla.

 

And thank you for the offer of artemisinin, but at this point I'm afraid we won't even have enough time to use what Sherry is sending. There may be someone else on this board who could use it, or else you could post on the arte yahoo group.

 

I'm not on the arte yahoo group but the offer is good for anyone here or there who might need it. When I bought it, I was being very optimistic and bought 4 bottles (well, gee...they were on sale buy 3 get 1 free) so I'd be more than happy to share with anyone.

I'd be happy to take you up on the offer. If we get the swelling down in Whizzer's foot. . .

 

Has anyone ever used Lasik for edema? Whizzer shoulder hasn't been all that bad, but her foot is really swelled up with fluid right now. The vet put her on some Lasik to help with the edema.

 

She's been eating well (better than before actually). She's been in pretty good spirits. She's been fairly comfortable, as she can be. . . .

Retrograde massage has worked for Gracy. You massage from the end of the foot up toward the heart, so from toe to knee. Incircle your hand around the foot and gently squeez and drag your hand toward the knee. Do this 10-15 times about 4 times a day. After each massage apply ice for 15 minutes. Good luck

I am so sorry and sad to hear that Neyla's not doing well. I 'm sending you strength and courage to get through this next phase of this illness. Neyla you are a brave sole. Hugs to you from Roselle and Gracy

[Guest kiki_13]

Hi everyone - I haven't checked in for awhile . . . it breaks my heart to hear of all everyone is experiencing and what I too have recently been through with my precious Bing.

 

I can't remember everyone as much as I would love to -

 

Jenmm - really loved the comment from your little boy regarding "beanie" - it was too cute

 

gretyfulhounds - my heart is with you as you cope with the loss of your Danny Boy

 

goldandgreen182 - believe it or not, I know how you are feeling - please let us know how you are doing . . . it is a tough situation to get through alone without ppl that understand.

 

This is a greyt place to come while coping with the evil that is OS or any other type of illness that is threatening to take your fur baby. There are ppl here who care and have been there, survived and can help you too.

 

ps - Blake is still here and doing greyt! Cami is so much better - although I continue to grieve for my heartdog, Bing, I welcome the chance to help this little black grey and may he live and live and live for a long while - sheesh, I couldn't take it!

 

Prayers and thoughts and white light with each and everyone of you - xoxoxo - Kiki

[Batmom]

greyhounds1234, I'm sorry you had to let you pupper go.

[Guest vahoundlover]

Unfortunately I don't have good news. The tumor is progressing. It was very clear on the x-ray. Based on what others who have gotten more time have said, I expect things will move quickly now although we will redouble our efforts anyway. I am going to post on the bone cancer dogs forum and look into switching or adding to the supplements we are using. I am in action mode, haven't let the reality of the situation sink in yet.

 

 

I am so sorry. My thoughts and prayers are with you and Neyla.