Ibd - Happy Starving!

[3DogNite]

I was thinking about your "forcing" food on Happy. The other thing I have done when absolutely nothing appealed to my old gal, and i KNEW she had to have food or else.....

 

get the kind of can dog food that is solid mush,, not the bits and pieces of chunks of food in gravy,, take small bite size amount in your hand, form into a ball, and shove it down her throat! It will go into her tummy, and she will digest it, and maybe she will not continue to loose weight.

I have done this on occasion. not for any length of time, but to enough to get by after a couple days of refusing food.. this made my girl feel better, then she started to eat on her own again.

 

for good news from your vet!

 

 

[krissn333]

No. I asked about it awhile back, and for some reason, he wanted to hold off on it. He also felt I shouldn't be forcing any food on her (like by turkey baster/syringe), but she'd be dead by now I think if I hadn't. Or closer. I also asked about an appetite stimulant that someone mentioned, but never did get an answer on that either.

 

 

The appetite stimulant suggestion was from me. The pills are teeny tiny and easy to get into them. I really believe that AS helped save Sutra's life. That, and the home cookin' carb fest.

[Xan]

I was thinking about your "forcing" food on Happy. The other thing I have done when absolutely nothing appealed to my old gal, and i KNEW she had to have food or else.....

 

get the kind of can dog food that is solid mush,, not the bits and pieces of chunks of food in gravy,, take small bite size amount in your hand, form into a ball, and shove it down her throat! It will go into her tummy, and she will digest it, and maybe she will not continue to loose weight.

I have done this on occasion. not for any length of time, but to enough to get by after a couple days of refusing food.. this made my girl feel better, then she started to eat on her own again.

 

for good news from your vet!

It's worth a try. Thanks for the idea. I anticipate a big mess!

 

The appetite stimulant suggestion was from me. The pills are teeny tiny and easy to get into them. I really believe that AS helped save Sutra's life. That, and the home cookin' carb fest.

Right! Thanks. I have it written in my Happy journal notebook. Depending on what I hear tonight/tomorrow, I'll ask yet again.

 

In case anyone else has to live with an IV catheter, or other leg wound, maybe this will be useful. They're fragile enough that a quick chomp can break the little tube that goes into the vein. To pad it up more, I cut the top off a thick sweat sock, and slipped it over her leg where the catheter is like a sleeve. I used some vet wrap at the top to keep it up, and it's worked well. She is paying less attention to it than to the band of vet wrap covering the catheter. I did have a band of vet wrap around the bottom, but it was just one more thing to have to mess with to do the necessary chores of attending to the catheter, and gravity keeps it down just fine.

 

I hope this can help someone.

[Guest eaglflyt]

Remember to have the vet change her IV catheter every 3 or 4 days, or at least weekly, to a new site to help prevent infection at the IV catheter site ... and then turning into systemic infection. Don't worry, just make sure they keep it well cared for, clean, and a new site when needed.

[Xan]

Thanks, eagleflyt. I'm so worried about that! Today has to be the last day on this cath, even though it's still clear. One way or another, it's coming out tomorrow.

[krissn333]

Just a note about the appetite stimulant. My vet told me that it can take a week or two to build up in their system enough to see a difference, but, for some dogs it's very quick and only takes a day or two. I'd suspect that with Happy being such a tiny girl anyway, it wouldn't take long.

 

The dosage was one tablet twice daily, but I'm not at home so I don't know the mg of the tablets.

 

Some days in the beginning when he seemed worse off than the day before - I'd give him 2 (ok'd by the vet). He weighed 47 lbs at the time. He now weighs 62.

[greyhead]

When you talk to the vet next, you might want to ask if they peeked at Happy's intestines with the ultrasound. Maybe what they saw is "within normal limits" for an IBD dog so they didn't mention it. (I.e., maybe they saw stretched villi, dilated lacteals and such.) But I'd want to know one way or the other whether they looked and, if so, what they saw.

 

If they did look and didn't see any structural changes, maybe she doesn't really have IBD. Or maybe they're interpreting any changes they saw as consistent with a lengthy infection elsewhere.

 

Just a thought. It will make a difference as ongoing treatment and feeding is considered, so you should know whatever the vet knows.

 

Continued good thoughts and prayers!

[Guest MZH]

I still think she may have a tick disease other than her old Babesia. A tick panel is one thing that hasn't apparently been done yet!

 

Ideally tomorrow she should have a Snap 4DX in-office test done for the big 3 tick diseases plus heart worm at minumum, a Protatek panel at maximum! In my world, tick panels are the first thing to do with a dog that has ADR syndrome (Ain't doing right). Doxy is your friend with tick diseases. It would be a wonderful thing to try for a 2-3 days trial.

[Xan]

Kristin, Mary and Marcia, thanks. I've written all this down. I was hoping to hear from them tonight, but nope.

Tomorrow, for sure. If I don't hear from them by the time I'm done with breakfast, they'll certainly be hearing from me!

 

Meanwhile, Happy still is un-Happy. She ate just over a cup of food today, but vomited a little, so let's call it a cup. Barely. Pretty un-perky. Pretty much ADR, as Marcia says. (I like that!)

 

G'night, all. Thanks a million and one!

 

 

[tbhounds]

I hope I don't come across as being judgemental and I do understand your financial concerns but, at this point you need to find another vet that is a bit more pro-active. There are many tummy meds available that are inexpensive that may be of some benefit to Happy (Cerenia, reglan...). She can not continue this way and your veterinary clinic can't even call you with an update?? Run don't walk for another opinion before you lose her.

[Xan]

tbhounds, it may be too late for that. :(

I called them this morning, since I hadn't heard anything, and was told they were waiting for the vet to come in. The tech called back shortly and said the doc had told her that there was no indications of any kind of tumor (yeay!), but there are indications of hepatitis. He wants to talk more to the pathologist. Might not hear anything more specific until

 

TOMORROW.

 

*banging head on wall*

 

I looked it up quickly, and if her liver is showing as shrunken on the ultrasound, that sounds like cirrhosis. Which sounds like a death sentence.

 

I'm beside myself. Words are just failing. I'm all emotion right now.

 

Have to bring her in to change out her IV catheter at 11:30, and change her to doxy just in case (can't see what difference that will make at this point, but whatever).

 

We'll keep the boys in the blood donor program with these guys, but I think we'll be taking our vet care elsewhere. Maybe he's just too busy.

 

[Guest Vinnie]

Oh Xan - I am so sorry to hear your latest news. I have been thinking so much of your family and the beautiful Miss Happy and so hoping for better news. I know how much you love your sweet girl with the pretty little brindle beret! Dr. Lee is not far from you in Anacortes and he is very familiar with greys - he was thinking about retiring but I don't think he has - if you want a second opinion, I can see if I can talk to a friend who is very close to him to see if he can see her. Just let me know. We took Vinnie to him and he is very straight forward and helpful. Sending more prayers, hugs and scritches.

[krissn333]

Xan - MILK THISTLE. I buy mine at Walgreen's. *MAY* be too late but maybe not.

 

Can't hurt her, could help her.

 

Hugs

[Guest mcsheltie]

We just need to redouble our prayers for her! Hang in there, there is still hope.

 

Positive thoughts that right now your vet is doing research and talking to specialists that will have answers.

[Guest MZH]

Ticks diseases can seriously injure livers! We had a dog that it happened to, so I'm speaking from experience.

 

I'm so relieved you're starting doxy right away. Livers can regenerate, so there is still hope.

[carronstar]

Ramping up my prayers and good thoughts for your girl (and you).

[lovinggreysslp]

Continuing to send prayers.

[Guest Energy11]

I can ONLY imagine how you are feeling!

 

Sending lots of love, hugs and prayers!!!

[greyhead]

Xan, I'm so sorry. Especially about your vet. Well, most especially for how you're feeling.

 

I second the doxy and milkthistle. Even knowledgeable conventional vets use milkthistle for liver support.

 

If your vet's head is not *entirely* in the game, the Anacortes option sounds promising.

 

You and Happy deserve so much better than this. You have both been amazingly strong.

 

Much love,

My whole family

 

ETA: Maybe the pictures can be emailed from the pathologist to Dr. Couto and the group at OSU. Nobody knows more than he, and it's free! I've talked to them, and they're wonderful and accessible.

Edited December 2, 2009 by greyhead

[Guest Smiley]

Oh Xan, I'm just now seeing all of the details about Happy here on GT-I just got a little taste it seems of what you've been dealing with on FB. I'm so, so sorry for all of this. How incredibly scary/frustrating/sad for you. Please know that I'm sending a gazillion hugs, good thoughts and prayers to you and Happy.

[Xan]

First, thanks again, and as always, for your continued compassion and support. It matters so much, as most of you already have reason to know.

 

Milk thistle. Good idea. I'll get some. She's had her first dose of doxy, but has literally spit out or run away (well, turned away, walked away, stuck her head in a tight corner) from food all day. Not drinking, of course. She's at 47.4 lbs.

 

I want to hear what the vet says about her liver. We're back up over $800 already, and I want my flippin' money's worth out of this guy. I've made it pretty clear I want to hear back SOONEST. The tech said, "They sometimes play phone tag for awhile." If he feels vague to me at all, I'll tell him to consult with Dr. Couto (in fact, I'll tell him about Dr. C as a greyhound resource anyway), but I'm telling you, people, I do not want to drag this out any longer if we're not going to see her get better.

 

Anacortes is over an hour away. I'd have to be pretty sure it was worth the trip for her, that she has a chance of getting better. If she's too far gone, I won't do that to her.

 

Can you tell I'm getting mad? Rant follows. You are warned.

 

I'm starting all the second-guessing early: Have we been dragging her down the wrong path since we got her? Since last winter when things first got bad? Isn't this something that could have been seen long ago, if it's been going on for awhile? I know he even mentioned liver disease away back. Even cirrhosis at one point, but just touched on it in the midst of other possibilities. I'm beginning to think that our long-running bill discouraged him from doing very much. I guess I can't blame him for that, but ....

 

Oh, and here's one. I don't know how expensive the Snap4 test is, but it seems like maybe adoption groups could add that to the list of things to do. If a TBD is the cause, we might have known and treated her before her liver curled up and died.

 

Okay, now I'm just throwing things all over the place. DH reminds me that our vet bill for this year is the same as our property taxes, which we haven't paid for two years because we couldn't. *sigh* It's not about the money, per se, but that sure doesn't help matters.

 

ARGH!!

[Xan]

I called and left Dr. Couto's contact information for my vet. He's not in, yet. I so do not feel confident in him right now. Or in the chances of him getting that information in a timely manner.

[Guest eaglflyt]

I'm praying for you and your girl. If your adoption group doesn't already do a SNAP4 test, I'd definitely contact them and make that request. Our group does that when each dog arrives, especially since the Heartworm test is part of the *4* things that test is looking for. It's not an expensive test and it is a pretty good screening tool, although it only tests for 3 types of TBD, and mercy... there's way more than 3 of them out there.

 

Hugs to you, your husband, and your girl!!!

 

Shelly & Ady Bea

 

edited to make sense of what I wrote ... sheesh!

Edited December 2, 2009 by eaglflyt

[Devotion]

Prayers for you and Happy. I've been reading and thinking of you daily,

[Guest MZH]

You have every right to rant. Playing telephone tag when there is a critically ill dog who hasn't been helped much is bullcrap.

 

Your vet is the only vet within a reasonable driving distance, so you are between a rock and a hard place as far as changing vets. His diagnostic methods and skills seem to leave much to be desired but driving an hour plus one or more times a week on a regular basis is too much. Be that as it may -- you now have us to bounce things off of! People often have to do the thinking for some vets and this seem to be your situation. It's probably safe to say that it galls all of us that you're spending large sums of money and getting nothing in return for Happy. He should be embarrassed to take all these $$$ from you. OK, now MY rant is over!

 

The doxy should take 2-4 days to kick in if an undiagnosed tick disease is her problem. (It won't help if it's Babesia though.)

 

The cost of a Snap 4 is about the same as a Superchem blood test here in SC. I asked about that last year and that's what the vet told me. It could be about $100 but it has to depend on the vet and your location. He ought to donate that one to you.

 

PS. Some adoption groups do tick titering so there would be no need for a Snap 4. Plus, when a dog is declared heart worm negative it may have been via a Snap 3 test!

 

I'm continuing my prayers for Happy.