Tracey Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Beau refused his lunch out of the bowl, but ate the equivilent of the same thing in 4 filled kongs. If he's feeling good enough to mess with you that must be a good sign. Quote ...............Chase (FTH Smooth Talker), Morgan (Cata), Reggie (Gable Caney), Rufus (Reward RJ). Fosters check in, but they don't check out. Forever loved -- Cosmo (System Br Mynoel), March 11, 2002 - October 8, 2009.Miss Cosmo was a lady. And a lady always knows when to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandysMom Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Beau refused his lunch out of the bowl, but ate the equivilent of the same thing in 4 filled kongs. Plus he ate 1/4 can of the z/d so he did well. He seems more interested in life today, is getting up with less difficultly, but stll gingerly. He ate diinner. We have one more meal at 10PM then at 3AM and our day starts all over again!!!! Maybe Beau wants a new china pattern Seriously, I'm glad he seems to be a bit better. Hopefully everyone can get a bit of rest. Quote Beverly. Missing my happy toy-flinging boy Sammy (Where's Mandrill), (8/12/2009-9/30-2021) Desperately missing my angel Mandy (BB's Luv) [7/1/2000 - 9/18/2012]. Always missing Meg the Dalmatian and Ralph Malph the Pekeapoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinM Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 If the cytology you're referring to is fluid from a joint aspirate, that should be your ticket to a diagnosis. They can culture this fluid directly to r/o infection (including spirochetes and any other TBD), as well as a bacterial infection causing a septic arthritis. I most definitely agree with starting the doxycycline empirically while waiting for the analysis to come back. Can't hurt, may well help, and you'll usually know within a couple of days whether it's helping. I'd also give thought to the fact that, with his IBD, Beau is already an "autoimmune" dog. Just as in humans, an autoimmune disease may present in other organ systems, and with what you've described as a migrating pattern of joint pain/swelling, this might be classic for an autoimmune (or immune mediated) polyarthritis. Type III: - IPA associated with gastrointestinal disease (enteropathic form). The diseased gut may show an increased permeability to potential antigens which could stimulate the production of immune complexes. Hepatopathic arthropathies have been described as well. The joint fluid analysis should show particular changes that go along with systemic inflammation. An immune mediated polyarthritis would also present with fever, lethargy, lack of appetite, and generalized owie-ness. BTDT with my iggie, who my vet and I were sure had disseminated Lyme. Months on antibiotics still resulted in relapse until it was pointed out by a specialist that it was the steroids giving her brief remissions, not the antibiotics. Her Lyme titre at Protatek was low positive (1:640, per their values) so we kept treating for Lyme, until repeat titres showed a decreased rather than an increase. A joint aspiration and careful re-evaluation of her symptoms confirmed the diagnosis of immune-mediated polyarthritis. Can't hurt to mention to your vet the possibility of Beau's current symptoms being a part of the overall constellation of symptoms asso. with an autoimmune syndrome. (see above) I apologize in advance for saying this and contradicting your vet, but I have to suggest that combining any NSAID with a steroid, especially in a dog with IBD and an already-compromised gut, is potentially disastrous. If Beau is having a great deal of pain, either the vet should bump up the steroids if she feels this is inflammatory, or add on narcotic pain meds for better pain control. OK, I'll shut my big yap now. I keep thinking septic arthritis too.... Email from my vet tonight: culture result that is negative. We have to wait for a final to completely rule out infection. Should be back tomorrow or Wed, along with the cytology. I'm glad you came across the info on immune-mediated polyarthritis. That was what I was referring to when I spoke of a possible inflammatory condition that could relate to his IBD. We'll see in a day or two. I'm sure I'll speak with you regarding test results before Saturday. Until then, sit tight and continue all meds. Quote ROBIN ~ Mom to: Beau Think It Aint, Chloe JC Allthewayhome, Teddy ICU Drunk Sailor, Elsie N Fracine , Ollie RG's Travertine, Ponch A's Jupiter~ Yoshi, Zoobie & Belle, the kitties. Waiting at the bridge Angel Polli Bohemian Ocean , Rocky, Blue,Sasha & Zoobie & Bobbi Greyhound Angels Adoption (GAA) The Lexus Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhndz Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 It's all coming into place, Robin... the joint fluid is so valuable for diagnosis. They can even base a diagnosis upon the viscosity of the fluid itself. Autoimmune dogs form immune complex that circulate throughout the blood, and can settle into various organ systems, such as bone/joints, soft tissue, heart, kidneys, skin, etc. It's a fascinating process, unless you're living it. When iggy Lexi was diagnosed with IMPA, we also discovered chronic renal disease, likely a result of the above process. If you get to the point where you need more info on IMPA, let me know - I've got tons of studies and journal articles and websites that I'm happy to share. The initial treatment of choice is high-dose steroids, tapered slowly down over approx. 6 months. IN the meantime, an immodulating agent (such as azathioprine, cyclosporine, leflumonide, etc.) is introduced so it will be effective at the time the steroids are stopped. Answers are so close! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IrskasMom Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Some more and Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SusanP Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Waiting is so hard, but it sounds like you're narrowing it down. Hang in there and give him some extra tummy rubs for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighsayer Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Hope he had a good night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbullwinkel Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Robin..I am just now reading through all of this!!He looked so good last night! I am glad he was happy to meet me! I am confident you and Dr. L will get to the bottom of it! Hopefully the results will be back soon...and a plan of treatment can be developed to get Beau back in the swing! In regards to auto-immune...that is what I deal with with my Ig Flex...basically discoid now....but I have a feeling he has a lot more going on..with his infections, etc. We are in good hands. I will be in touch! Thanks for taking the time to help me out when you are so wrapped up with beautiful Beau! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozgirl2 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 A friend's grey had IMPA - got it when she was about 4 or 5, I think... and lived to 11!! She was on very high doses of prednisone for a really really long time - had side effects from that but got to where she'd run around the yard again! All the vets were horrified by the pred dosage but she lived a long and (relatively) healthy life on it. PM me if you want more info on her... I can get you in touch with her owner (who's not on GT...) Quote Jeannine with Merlin, the crazed tabby cat and his sister, Jasmine, the brat-cat With Angel Cody(Roving Gemini), and Weenie the tortie waiting at the Bridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remolacha Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gottaluvgreysindy Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 continued prayers for Beau's recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greytbookert Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 More prayers for you and Beau! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahicks51 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 It's a fascinating process, unless you're living it. Naw. Lived through it, AND found it fascinating. With humans, the autoimmune assault is probably due to structural mimicry; several of the proteins put off by the causative organism have a tiny little amino acid sequence that looks just like the same amino acid sequence of the body's collagen. Once the body is sensitized to the bacterial proteins, it attacks them- along with the collagen, which- to the antibodies- looks just the same. The collagen of the intestines becomes ulcerated and "leaky," causing IBD; if the collagen of the spine is involved, it results in ankylosing spondylitis; if the collagen of the joints is involved, it becomes arthritis. (With rheumatoid arthritis, it's probably Proteus mirabilis, a fairly common critter that causes urinary tract infections. With IBD and AS, it's probably Klebsiella pneumoniae, which lives harmlessly in the gut- but causes disease if it gets into the lungs, or into the bloodstream. The trick is to get the bacteria to knock it off. With klebsiella, the answer is to stop consuming starch, as the causative proteins are involved in starch digestion. The veterinary ramifications of these human problems are uncertain, as I have been assured by the best veterinary gastroenterologists that- except for one breed- dogs do not get Crohn's. Whether other forms of IBD are caused by this particular sensitization is beyond me. Quote Coco (Maze Cocodrillo) Minerva (Kid's Snipper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LolasMom Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinM Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 Dare I say he is on the mend? Dare I say that the hock is less swollen? Dare I say that for the 1st time in over 2 weeks, Beau is voluntarily coming to us, engaging in our affections, wanted to do WALKIES after dinner??? ( I did not let him yet, maybe tomorrow when I speak to vet) Dare I say that he actually jumped up on me and kissed me? dare I??? OMG. He is like being reserected from the dead. He was so catatonic, it scared me. Is this the doxy working??? Quote ROBIN ~ Mom to: Beau Think It Aint, Chloe JC Allthewayhome, Teddy ICU Drunk Sailor, Elsie N Fracine , Ollie RG's Travertine, Ponch A's Jupiter~ Yoshi, Zoobie & Belle, the kitties. Waiting at the bridge Angel Polli Bohemian Ocean , Rocky, Blue,Sasha & Zoobie & Bobbi Greyhound Angels Adoption (GAA) The Lexus Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickiesmom Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Whatever the reason, this is very heartening news!! Here's hoping the improvement continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tammara Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Thank God! What wonderful news! Continued prayers for Beau! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbullwinkel Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Greyt news!!! Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandimom Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Great news that Beau is home which has got to make a world of difference to him. I am sorry that I do not have any advice or suggestions but we certainly send both of you love, hugs and kisses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greyt2love Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I don't know what is causing it, but it is so the news I wanted to be seeing !!! Keep it up, Beau!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Annie Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Robin, that is absolutely WONDERFUL!!!!!!!! I pray Beau continues to improve!!!!!! (Oh, how you guys need it too!!!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerlinsMum Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Oh, what WONDERFUL news! :yay Please let this be it! Keep getting better and better, Beau! Sendling more good thoughts! Quote Kerry with Lupin in beautiful coastal Maine. Missing Pippin, my best friend and sweet little heart-healer 2013-2023 Also missing the best wizard in the world, Merlin, and my sweet 80lb limpet, Sagan, every single day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinw Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 i am so happy for you!! :confetti Quote Xavi the galgo and Peter the cat. Missing Iker the galgo ?-Feb.9/19, Treasure (USS Treasure) April 12/01-May 6/13, Phoenix (Hallo Top Son) Dec.14/99-June 4/11 and Loca (Reko Swahili) Oct.9/95 - June 1/09, Allen the boss cat, died late November, 2021, age 19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remolacha Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greydogluvr Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Wow This news makes my day. Keep it up beautful Beau. We are all sending our positive vibes your way I would love to see some happy pictures of your babies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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