Poll: Love Or Hate Cesar Millan

[Guest BlingDogs]

I quite like him, like anybody else some of the things he teaches I don't agree with but the proof is in the pudding I suppose!

[Guest Mom2Shiloh]

Jackson, it is a touchy subject for many because Millan has managed to bring back dominance & correction based training to the masses just as it was started to die out. It is really sad. It isn't that everything Millan says is wrong. The average suburban America dog does not get enough exercise. Many people do no training or are inconsistent with it. Love alone will not make a happy life for a dog. Wait, let me take that back. I believe love alone can make them happy but I include training as part of showing my love. So let me rephrase, just showing affection won't make your dog happy.

 

My biggest problem with Millan's training techniques is that it relies too much on correction & tries to make everyone think that dogs are waiting to take over the world. And then there is the fact that he really does not seem to understand dog behavior enough to prevent dangerous circumstances. All I can think is that he intentionally tries to set up dangerous situations so he can "correct" the dog because he only seems to be able to train through correction. It is just too limiting & can do such horrible damage. A good behaviorist would carefully evaluate a dog taking pains to prevent the dogs from going over threshold. Millan seems to set things up in ways that the dog is guaranteed to be pushed to the brink, then he intentionally tips the dog over the edge. Sorry, but that is just cruel & leads to terrible circumstances such as this. Millan kicks a dog into attacking. (Be patient. It can take a while to load.) What Millan did is what I might have expected from an inept owner not someone who calls himself a behaviorist. Sadly what he ultimately did is a technique called "hanging". It is an old technique & a really horrible one. The dog in the video ends up on the ground suffering from hypoxia. If you look closely you can see that the dogs tongue had turned blue. It had nothing to do with submitting to Millan's dominance & everything to do with a dog trying to recover from near asphyxiation. The dog could have done a lot of damage to Millan. Instead he only left scratches. One day, Millan isn't going to be so lucky.

 

My dog going out the door first is just my dog wanting to get to the other side of the doorway. Since I find dogs rushing out of doorways at the minimum annoying & downright dangerous in some situations my dogs get rewarded for waiting. What is their reward? They get to go out the door, whether it is before or after me is of no importance to my leadership standing. I control the doorway. I say who goes in or out & if I choose I can also control what order that is. This does not require correction or leashes or e-collars or poking or Ehh'ing or Pssst'ing. All it requires is not opening the door until the dog waits. Very simple, very easy, very rewarding for the dog when that door opens & they are allowed to go through.

 

Yep, it's funny. I am just a bundle of laughs when it comes to this subject.

 

I'm quoting you because I agree with you 200% I've got 4 or 5 files of published articles I've collected (along with a lot of my friends who believe he's set back dog training at least 50 years and is a danger). I didn't have the clip you included, so I'll save that to one of my files. For people that say some of his methods work, what they don't realize is that you're not seeing the out-takes of the filming, or the law suits or the dogs he's damaged. Anyone can throw in one or two truths with a bunch of hogwash and then people point to that and say 'but that's common sense' or 'that worked with my dog'. Hogwash is a good word. There are hundreds of good trainers all across the US who are actively working to get this man debunked and off the air, and I confess to saying a few prayers that they succeed.

[Guest 4dogscrazy]

You know, I have never watched much Milan, so did not have an opinion about this before. But tonight I watched the video and holy cow. It doesn't seem to me that much was accomplished in this case. And I'll admit I only watched 75%. But I realized that my sister is having the same problem with her Bernese Mt Dog puppy. He's 7 months, and really hard to handle. Leash walks turn out exactly like that video, although at this point it's still a "puppy attack". He Challenges her all the time and they did take him to puppy obedience school. I've tried to help, but don't have much experience since I only have hounds and a very mellow lab. The last time she showed me her wounds, and there were many, I said to her...it would be a cold day in he!! that any dog of mine would make those kinds of marks on me. This was a week ago. We settled on a plan of muzzling him with one of my old greyhound muzzles. The difference was immediate. She said he even seems calmer now without the muzzle. At this point it was a learned behavior and no amount of any kind of training would work on the little (BIG) bugger. They have never been so happy, and were seriously considering getting rid of him (no need to rant about that, I haved ranted enough for all of us combined) but he was doing some serious damage to them, and their two little kids.

 

I have to wonder, why don't people use muzzles more? A whole lot of problems could be prevented if people got their dogs used to wearing muzzles like the hounds are. Just this morning my pack got into a scuff in the yard and thank goodness they had muzzles on, no idea what that was all about! And not a mark on any of them when they came in. Muzzles!!!!

 

ETA I just watched the whole thing and now I am just angry and disgusted.

Edited June 19, 2010 by 4dogscrazy

[buddibear]

My son was living in Palm Springs with a 2,000 mutt won on charity auction for an animal shelter and a purebred Affenpinscher. The new addition peed all over the house and a call was placed to C. M. For 500.00 the training advise was for my son to pee in all four corners of the yard and the dog would get the idea. Crap, it worked!

[Guest NeverSayNever]

I always think it is funny that we either have to love or hate him. There seems to be no middle ground. I like some things he does and not others.... I can say that about all other trainers and/or behaviorists.

[Guest kydie]

this thread never seems to die Every once in awhile someone revives it, just like Milan it has "the power of the pack"

[mychip1]

I have watched - but when I had a behavioral issue with Jack (a sleep disorder), I went to Dr. Dodman at Tufts. He is a veterinarian who is behavior certified. He actually joked with me because my whole goal was to keep it so that Jack could sleep with me. He pointed out that some trainers and behaviorists wouldn't approve. My only response was that I wasn't sitting in the office of those people.

[Guest amandagal]

Since this old thread popped up, I think his show is extreme and sometimes makes him look bad, but I think a lot of his ideas are worth at least reading (even if dominance theory is wrong, he says a few good things: exercise, concrete rules). I think most of his controversial stuff would only work with aggressive dogs, not sensitive ones or normal dogs, but he also says that in his books. It doesn't make that clear in the show, though. I think someone else said this, but he seems to have mellowed (or maybe he's just learned to communicate better) anyway, though sometimes on his show you wonder "what the heck is he thinking?"

 

That being said, I always tell people who like Ceaser or are looking for a good book that he says good things, but other people say the same things better. I always offer, "The Other End of the Leash" as a counter to "Cesar's Way." To me, they're both very similar in intent, but very different in execution.

[Guest Swifthounds]

Love him or hate him. I think everyone knows where I stand.

 

What really shocks and appalls me is the folks who say things to the effect of "such-and-such method is okay on a GSD or Rottie, but not for greyhounds - they're too sensitive." All that demonstrates is a lack of understanding of canine behavior and nature. GSDs are as sensitive as greyhounds and sometimes even moreso - even attack trained police dogs. I suspect that the view might be one more of ignorance of these other breeds combined with the temptation to consider greyhounds "special" and "oh-so-sensitive."

[Guest barkdogs]

You have to look at the dog in question (regardless of breed) greyhounds, malamutes, terriers, whatever, they are still individuals. The malamute in the video is bordering on dangerously aggressive. For THAT PARTICULAR dog, I probably would have resorted to a similar strategy. The owners had an escalating problem of aggression; Keep in mind that Milan stepped in AFTER the dog had become quite fearful/aggressive.

 

I can't see myself ever using that method on any dogs I have because I have sensitive, gentle dogs (of varying varieties). I just don't tend to select dominant, pushy dogs--I tend to go for special needs sorts (old, injured or shy/abuse cases) because that is what I seem to do well with.

 

I started watching Milan's show with a jaded eye, but I actually have come to like him more. Do I think he is the god of dog trainers? No, although I do think he has saved the lives of members of many breeds that tend towards the dominant and pushy side (notice I said tend--I know there are mushy rotties and pitties out there) Does he at times irritate my feminist side? Sure! But I do think he has talents-one is simply how he uses body language and a focused calmness and assertiveness. WHen I am concentrating and my timing is good, I have found I can keep my dogs quite calm in a reactive setting before anything begins to escalate--and I usually walk 5 to 7 at a time.

 

Oh and I am 5'1" and weigh about 118.

[Guest Mom2Shiloh]

Okay.. new article Time CNN, reputable, not virulent.. please read:

 

 

 

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2007250,00.html

 

(That didn't copy in properly the first time I tried.. if the whole thing doesn't appear as a link, copy and paste it into your browser.)

 

It isn't an "anti-Millan" article per se, just intelligent and well written and up to date...

Edited August 5, 2010 by Mom2Shiloh

[Guest kydie]

We have all seen dog training change through out time,and there are still different theories on it, but one thing Milan says is true, IMHO, many times it IS the owners fault a dog has issues. (notice I said "many" times,,, not all) and his statement,, "dogs are not humans" I feel is true we all know our dogs can sense when we are sad, happy or nervous, and I DO beleive being calm is the key,,,

[Guest Swifthounds]

Issues a dog has that make him or her difficult to manage in companionship with humans or which make the dog unhappy, nervous or insecure are always the fault of some human, if not the human that currently "owns" the dog. People don't have dog problems, dogs have people problems. Dogs are the ones living a life in a world designed for and by humans. They, by default, must learn our rules, social customs, and understand our language. Their learning is only as good as the skills of their human teachers. That's certainly not a view exclusive to or even notable because of Milan.

[Guest kydie]

AGREED with swifthounds

[Guest amandagal]

Yes, I recently had someone tell me her dog was a vegan and hated meat. I thought of Cesar's description of how we baby our dogs and give them human traits, and carrying small dogs around like babies. So true. "My dog likes [this]" "My dog is reacts to [that]" when many times they are just reacting to our reactions.

 

On the other hand, I'm sure that lady is just two bricks shy of a load and if I threw a hot dog on the ground, her dog would show her how much he "hated meat."

[Guest auforygirl]

A vegan dog isn't that like a unicorn it doesn't exist.

[Guest Swifthounds]

A vegan dog isn't that like a unicorn it doesn't exist.

 

Nah, unicorns at least exist in children's books and movies...

[Guest Luvastorm]

A vegan dog isn't that like a unicorn it doesn't exist.

 

Nah, unicorns at least exist in children's books and movies...

[Guest Luvastorm]

We like Cesar so much we have his program tuned into our PVR box so we always catch his programs.

 

Our usual reaction is, "What do those people think they are doing" . I strongly agree with the statement that "Dogs have human problems".

 

The most recent program was a 2 yr. follow-up to folks and dogs from the first year and it was most interesting to see the changes in the dogs and, most especially, the people.

 

In another recent program he took a fellow who was terrified of dogs and turned him in to a dog lover by gently exposing him to "The Pack".

 

I do find it interesting that I've only ever seen ONE greyhound with issues as opposed to a multitude of pitbulls. They seem to love those pitbulls in Califormia.

[DesiRayMom]

Ceasar's ways are just like anything else. Works for some, not for others. I've always enjoyed his shows, just to see the dogs & their owners.

Until I took home a shepherd mix that had been hit by a truck & abandoned at the vet clinic where I work. His pelvis was broken in 5 places & he had one

front leg shattered. Needless to say, he was a needy little thing (65lb) until about 6 months later when all was healed & he came into his true bullheaded

personality. Without using Ceasar's techniques, I would have been lost. The turning point was when he pulled me over on an icy sidewalk & drug me nearly

a block before I could get enough traction to get him stopped. From then on, it was Ceasar's way, and it worked miracles. He was always a handful, & I had to

keep a close eye on his body language when we were out for walks, but the love he showed me & the two times he stood between me & possible disaster, made him

a dog I will never forget. I am now "into" greyhounds and I would not dream of using Ceasar's ways on any I have known. I say it's not the breed, it's the personality that dictates the training tools.

[Guest LindsaySF]

I do find it interesting that I've only ever seen ONE greyhound with issues as opposed to a multitude of pitbulls. They seem to love those pitbulls in Califormia.

It's a temperament difference between the breeds. Greyhounds just tend to be really "easy" dogs in general. They have a soft temperament, they usually leash-train easy, many of them don't jump up on people, they are pretty lazy, usually get along great with other dogs, etc. Pit bulls (all bully breeds really) are active, driven, strong, persistent, stubborn, extremely food-motivated, take a while to learn leash skills, etc. A classic example of a dog needing a "job". Add in dog aggression/reactivity and you have too much dog for most people to handle. Many people that own pit bulls don't give them the exercise, socialization, or training that they need. You can usually get away with never training or exercising a Greyhound, a pit bull not so much. But the same holds true for many Labs, Goldens, Border Collies, Jack Russell Terriers, etc. They just don't make good TV. (Or their owners don't really see a problem requiring a trainer. Afterall, if your pit bull bites someone chances are it's going to end up dead. If your Jack Russell bites someone it probably won't even get reported. So more pit bull owners will seek out trainers when they are having the same types of problems that owners of other breeds are having).

 

 

 

~Lindsay~

[Guest grammarules]

I picked up a book at Petsmart during my pups training session and commented that 'this guy is ripping of Cesar Millan'. The manager over heard me and intoduced me to a book by the original 'Dog Whisperer', Paul Owens. Apparently he's been around long before Cesar was. I do enjoy Cesar's show though as a source of entertainment and he does have some ideas that have worked with my dogs.

[kudzu]

I picked up a book at Petsmart during my pups training session and commented that 'this guy is ripping of Cesar Millan'. The manager over heard me and intoduced me to a book by the original 'Dog Whisperer', Paul Owens. Apparently he's been around long before Cesar was. I do enjoy Cesar's show though as a source of entertainment and he does have some ideas that have worked with my dogs.

Yes, Paul Owens was the first. You can find his main website at raisewithpraise.com and another for his dvds & books here His book was out years before the Millan series started.

[LadyGrey]

The question is, are his training methods good for the breed of Greyhounds. Greys have a distinctive behavior and have had a very rigorous and methodical proffessional training history since they were babies.

[Guest grammarules]

I saw one episode where he had a greyhound mix. He took it to a greyhound rescue for socializing. I find some of his methods work for Shelby but, others do not. I've had her since she was 8 months so, she has never raced. She does love to run and chase the deer out of our acreage. She always stops at the fence line. She like short chases.

Edited September 26, 2010 by grammarules