jenn8 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I remember once when I tried to exert my dominance over an angry chow. He was running loose in the street and came charging over when he saw me. I didn't realize I was standing in his yard though, and blocking him from it as well. Silly me. I could have gotten killed and there was no question in my mind that he was perfectly capable of it. Holy cow, that boy was mad! Luckily, I was in such shock that I froze and that was probably the only reason he didn't attack. Had to go home after that and actually learn something about dog aggression. You can never count on the same thing happening with every dog you run across. Some dogs just want to bite. Some you can grab by the scruff of the neck and exert your control. Others can and will kill you in the blink of an eye. You have to realize the difference and react accordingly. Jenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GretaDad Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 To them, dogs are not disposable and this was a truly aggressive case. Not the kind of dog one would want to lie down in front of when it's in the middle of an aggressive charge. Well, I wouldn't, but you might. I assume you are referring to my previous comments in another thread about what to do if an aggressive dog attacks you. You only lay down and cover your head if the dog actually attacks and starts biting. I realize this is a difficult concept for you, but I'd like to see you try to alpha roll or raise the front legs of a dog that is attacking you (and not a 5 pound Chihuahua next time). Let us know when you get out of the hospital. Lindsay, try to not get so riled up. It's only a discussion or exchange of ideas, if you will. If you recall, we were attacked by an aggressive dog. I rolled him and when I let him up, all aggressiveness was gone. We (me, Greta & Frannie) walked Duke back to his house and let his owner know what transpired. We have seen Duke several times since then and he is still respectful of us. We have also been charged by Rotties, GSD, and various mixes. But, since you bring it up, you never did answer my question, preferring instead to retreat into oblivion, so I'll ask it again. Have you ever been attacked by an aggressive dog and tried your recommended "duck and cover?" Also, contrary to what Cesar says about this Jindo being in "kill mode" or whatever, the dog only snapped and reacted aggressively when provoked by the owners pushing on him trying to make him sit, make him lay down, etc. If the dog really wanted to attack the owners and bite them, he would have. Those were only warning snaps. Interesting. I didn't realize that touching a dog's back would be considered provocation for an attack. If warning snaps don't constitute an aggressive dog, is the dog only aggressive if it actually bites? The dog was jumping up and trying to attack and when the dog became tangled in the leash CM lowered him gently to the floor. Is that seriously what you saw from watching that video? The dog became tangled? He wrapped the leash around his own neck? I'm afraid there is no talking to you then. You are living in an alternate reality. It was his feet that became entangled. Why the personal insults? Have I said anything attacking you personally? If you can't play nice, perhaps you should stay out of these discussions. I just hope other people reading this thread will watch the video clips for themselves and make their own opinions. Don't listen to me, and don't listen to GretaDad. Watch the videos. Don't just watch the videos, watch the show. I would second the recommendation to not listen to Lindsay, however--It's a good way to get your head bitten by an attacking dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Giselle Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 This "interchange of ideas" has degraded to an exchange of which option is better to protect one's self from an attacking animal. Offense or defense. Seriously? This is Training and Behavior. This has little at all to do with actually training and living with an aggressive/reactive dog. I say to you ALL as I say to my DOGS: DROP IT! ( I would say "Give" but there's nothing tangible your mouths, so it doesn't quite work) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TooManyDogs Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 I like CM and watch all his new episodes. As others have already stated, he is controversial, but I've found that it's usually those who haven't actually watched his show who claim to dislike his methods. It's clear from his shows that it's usually the owners who have the real problems and the dogs are only reacting to uneducated owners. I take what I need from his shows and forget the rest. I will say that when I adopted an aggressive grey who I was afraid of (he is a BIG dog), CM showed me how to deal confidently with an agressive dog and how not to be afraid. Obviously I wasn't slamming my grey on the ground or anything physical, but the change in my attitude toward him turned my big fellow around and he is now the sweetest of my dogs. He is a wonderful foster roll model, and his quiet confidence has calmed several distressed fosters that I have had. The Dog Whispherer is like any othr "how-to" show: you use or take from it what applies to you and leave the rest behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GretaDad Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 This "interchange of ideas" has degraded to an exchange of which option is better to protect one's self from an attacking animal. Offense or defense. Seriously? This is Training and Behavior. This has little at all to do with actually training and living with an aggressive/reactive dog. I say to you ALL as I say to my DOGS: DROP IT! ( I would say "Give" but there's nothing tangible your mouths, so it doesn't quite work) Actually, Giselle, it's about using your calm, assertive behavior with all dogs; yours or others. We "visit" many fenced, barking dogs in the neighborhood and G&F's calm demeanor never fails to calm the barking dog and within a minute or two the dog has changed from using his eyes to using his nose. Once the dog uses his nose, his natural curious, social dog-self takes over and they become calm and submissive. It's also about using your calm assertive behavior not only with dogs, but in all facets of your life. Sometimes at school I work with autistic kids whose disabilities range from mild to severe. It's noticeable to the other aides how much calmer the kids are with me than they are with their normal aides. These kids are highly sensitive to their environment, but like dogs, live in the moment. They don't think about what happened yesterday, but if I dwell on it, they will pick up on those feelings of anxiousness and react to it. If you watch enough episodes, you'll see that CM uses whatever tools to help the dogs that are available. Using this mindset really helps with the kids I work with. We use whatever tools that work to help the kids gain whatever level of functionality that they can. Besides, if you use CM's method of leadership with your dogs, you don't have say anything to get what they have in their mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Capslock Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I'm with you GretaDad. Obviously, and excuse the expression, there is more than one way to skin a cat. But I agree with CMs methods, which are applied in a breed-specific way. He's said on his show that greyhounds are much different dogs and need to be treated accordingly, that they require different collars, etc. And the videos posted earlier were the most extreme cases in years of the show, and were last-ditch efforts to save the dogs. Like GretaDad says, it's all about calm, assertive leadership - which has a calming effect on dogs and makes them feel safe and secure. My two greys are at the extremes - one is very forward, alpha, and confident, and the other is a two-time bounce from SA and is very submissive. Both respond very positively to calm, assertive behavior, and both have become happy, model dogs in their behavior. The show itself is mostly about things the owners are doing wrong which are making their dog's behavior issues worse. The way we behave has as much to do with our dog's "issues" as anything about the dog. In any case, I've seen probably every episode of the show, and have never seen a dog abused. And the dogs are invariably happier after his visits than before. Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreytHoundPoet Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Just enjoying reading all this... Quote Masquerade Hounds & The Hounds of East Fairhaven & Ibizan Hound Club of the United States Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greythopes Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Just enjoying reading all this... LMAO!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GretaDad Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 (edited) Just enjoying reading all this... Hopefully, you're getting something out of this besides entertainment. Greyhounds Vs Galgo, Why is Lucius and Timmy picking on Argos??? Dogs don't rationalize, they react. As CM says: Adopting a dog is a wonderful thing to do, but one doesn't really rescue a dog until the dog is returned to a calm, balanced state of mind. Perhaps his books would work for you until Argos is in a more balanced state. Edited January 27, 2009 by GretaDad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAJ2010 Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I must say that CM methods worked when Rainy did NOT want to give up her marrow bone last week. She let out this big snarl and I just inched in and stood over her bone until she jumped away on her own. The first time it took her almost 5 minutes of being tense and trying to guard the bone until she left. Felt like forever! Then we decided to practice! lol The times after that she left as soon as I stepped over top the bone. By the time we were done I felt comfortable enough to trade up and grab the bone with my hand. Quote ------ Jessica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jcbradley11 Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Just had to say again how much I love, love, love Cesar. I love what he does for the dogs he comes in contact with. I don't read too much into the serious cases in the links that were provided. All Cesar did with that Jindo was hold the leash up....the dog did the rest on his own....and that was one messed up dog. Oh, he's pretty cute, too and I love his accent!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubcitypam Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 (edited) I think the best thing anyone can do for the dogs in their care is become 100% committed to "think like a dog". It really isn't that hard if you tune in and listen to what they are telling you and you act accordingly. That can usually take out 95% of the drama as you figure out what they are trying to tell you and meet them halfway rather than forcing them to think like a human you saw on TV. Edited February 11, 2009 by Hubcitypam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hotdogs Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 He's a funny guy. Does anyone else feel embarrassed for him when he acts out dog behavior? I think he says a lot of things that make sense, such as, making sure your dog has plenty of exercise on leash--it makes sense to me that that kind of activity would help dog and owner to bond. Setting boundaries for your dog makes sense also as long as the rules make sense. For example, when Husband and I come home, dogs lay down on their beds. This is to prevent any more happy tail incidents. We go over to them and greet them as long as they are lying down--and they lie there waiting with their tails wagging (safely). (One time, Charlie hurt his tail, and house looked like a Jackson Pollack painting --luckily his tail is ok this time, can't say same for my spotty couch though). I wasn't sure about this until it occurred to me that I was being like a parent that doesn't set rules for their kids. Kids aren't happy without rules, they, dogs included, in my opinion, like everyone else, need structure to be happy. The biggest thing I've gleamed from his show is how your moods and what you are thinking affect how your dogs react to you and to different situations. My dogs are really well behaved, but were in the past a bit insecure. I have noticed a big difference in their behavior since being more aware of my mood and body language. It really is incredible how sensitive they are and how much they look to me in new situations to see how to react. Now, I'm climbing off my soapbox. I do wonder how many greys he has met. I think a lot of his techniques are too harsh for our pups. Besides that, roller blading with a greyhoud?!? That would be an interesting segment. I'll save Brindles the trouble of posting her roller-blading with her pack of greyhounds (page 3 of this thread ). Roller-Blading with Greyhounds ouch, so harsh, especially the eye rolling! be nice. Sorry Brindles, should have read that post. Only speaking from my own neurotic concerns about rolling over toes (dog toes, I mean) and my inadequate roller blading ability. Good for you, Brindles! Maybe roller blading isn't as far fetched as I had thought and maybe our dogs are not as fragile as I think they are sometimes. I know from running with my two with the rules of no criss-crossing that they do tend to stay focused on what they're doing at faster speed, so I'm sure the same principals apply to roller blading with them as well. How far do you go? and where did you get those skate (husband wants to know....always oogles over them every time Cesar wears them on the show). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirsmom Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 He is training dogs that re not his--it makes a big difference. i want my dogs to feel loved as well as be fairly well behaved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brindles Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Sorry Brindles, should have read that post. Only speaking from my own neurotic concerns about rolling over toes (dog toes, I mean) and my inadequate roller blading ability. Good for you, Brindles! Maybe roller blading isn't as far fetched as I had thought and maybe our dogs are not as fragile as I think they are sometimes. I know from running with my two with the rules of no criss-crossing that they do tend to stay focused on what they're doing at faster speed, so I'm sure the same principals apply to roller blading with them as well. How far do you go? and where did you get those skate (husband wants to know....always oogles over them every time Cesar wears them on the show). We don't go far. Maybe 1/2 mile on the skates and they start to get tired. It really doesn't take much distance to wear out a greyhound! Then again, my boys are 5 and 7 years old now, and Echo can't keep up so I don't take her anymore. A couple years ago they could do a little over a mile. As for the skates, they're Landrollers. DBF got them for me for Christmas. Best present ever. Quote | Rachel | Dewty, Trigger, and Charlotte | Missing Dazzle, Echo, and Julio | Learn what your greyhound's life was like before becoming part of yours!"The only thing better than the cutest kitty in the world is any dog." -Daniel Tosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GretaDad Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) He is training dogs that re not his--it makes a big difference. i want my dogs to feel loved as well as be fairly well behaved. What your dog wants and what we as owners want to give them are usually completely different. As CM mentioned once, a dog will sometimes approach a person not because they want affection, but simply because they want to get a better smell of the person. As you watch more episodes, you'll see that CM will sometimes keep the dogs he works with. Both of the dogs he adopted for his sons were former client dogs. Often CM will do a dog trade with his clients when he feels that the client/dog is not a good match. He'll then either adopt the dog out, or keep him. CM also makes any dog he takes into boot camp for rehabilitation help another dog rehab or pay it forward. As to the comment about how the dogs do long-term, CM recently had his 100th episode special in which he invited all past clients to a reunion and also revisited some of his tougher cases to see how the owners and dogs were getting along. Everyone was very happy with the way their lives had improved. Edited March 18, 2009 by GretaDad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CDNgreys Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I got one of his books for my birthday and I found that a lot of the dogs in the book were turned over to a rescue group, or a new owner took the dog or he took the dog himself. There didn't seem to be many 'successes' with the family he worked with. I don't know why they would publish a book like that! It was an interesting read anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GretaDad Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 What's the title of the book you got for your birthday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CDNgreys Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 What's the title of the book you got for your birthday? Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan The Ultimate Episode Guide Lessons from Cesar's TV dogs and their owners ex. episode 302 Follow up: Virginia and Jack loved their new life with Spike and Belle. Unfortunately, several months after they adopted Belle, she ran into the street and was killed when she was hit by a car. If I was writing a book I wouldn't be publishing these kind of follow up stories that don't paint the most successful pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GretaDad Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 What's the title of the book you got for your birthday? Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan The Ultimate Episode Guide Lessons from Cesar's TV dogs and their owners ex. episode 302 Follow up: Virginia and Jack loved their new life with Spike and Belle. Unfortunately, several months after they adopted Belle, she ran into the street and was killed when she was hit by a car. If I was writing a book I wouldn't be publishing these kind of follow up stories that don't paint the most successful pictures. Thanks for the info. I guess the lesson from this story is to keep your dog leashed for longer than a few months after you adopt them. I don't think this is necessarily a failure, but he at least CM is being honest about the situation(s). I would look at the positive part of this story in that Virginia & Jack learned how to be a calm, assertive pack leaders which they can apply with all future canine companions. Does the book give the title of episode 302? I have many on tape and would like to take another look at this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CDNgreys Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 (edited) What's the title of the book you got for your birthday? Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan The Ultimate Episode Guide Lessons from Cesar's TV dogs and their owners ex. episode 302 Follow up: Virginia and Jack loved their new life with Spike and Belle. Unfortunately, several months after they adopted Belle, she ran into the street and was killed when she was hit by a car. If I was writing a book I wouldn't be publishing these kind of follow up stories that don't paint the most successful pictures. Thanks for the info. I guess the lesson from this story is to keep your dog leashed for longer than a few months after you adopt them. I don't think this is necessarily a failure, but he at least CM is being honest about the situation(s). I would look at the positive part of this story in that Virginia & Jack learned how to be a calm, assertive pack leaders which they can apply with all future canine companions. Does the book give the title of episode 302? I have many on tape and would like to take another look at this one. Yup, Family Decisons (episode 302) Name/Breed Spike/ French Bulldog Name/Breed Belle/Chihuahua mix In the first 2 chapters of the book I counted 6 stories where the owners put the dog up for adoption!!! I'm not going thru the whole book but it does continue like this. Not all the people in the 1st 2 chapters were able to be reached for follow ups either. Edited March 18, 2009 by CDNgreys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest auforygirl Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Well I am sure that if Cesar had only put in the information about the success people would be asking about the failure or the holes in his resume and what about that dog with those crazy people who looked at going outside with the dog as a worst nightmare... And lets face it if I could count the number of times I have watched that show and asked myself why in the world did those people get a dog in the first place they probably hoped that he would come "fix" the dog and they wouldn't have to change their lives or attitude. It is like a diet or exercise program only 20% of people succeed with their lifestyle change. But if his success rate is anything above that I would call his methods an overwhelming success. People are lazy and hard to change for something other than themselves. So I wouldn't say the "returns" are the dog or Cesar's fault it is just like in adopting a greyhound either not the right fit or silly owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CDNgreys Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 Well I am sure that if Cesar had only put in the information about the success people would be asking about the failure or the holes in his resume and what about that dog with those crazy people who looked at going outside with the dog as a worst nightmare... And lets face it if I could count the number of times I have watched that show and asked myself why in the world did those people get a dog in the first place they probably hoped that he would come "fix" the dog and they wouldn't have to change their lives or attitude. It is like a diet or exercise program only 20% of people succeed with their lifestyle change. But if his success rate is anything above that I would call his methods an overwhelming success. People are lazy and hard to change for something other than themselves. So I wouldn't say the "returns" are the dog or Cesar's fault it is just like in adopting a greyhound either not the right fit or silly owners. I absolutely agree with you that it's the lazy-inept owners. I never placed blame on anyone. I have LOTS of diet books & workout books and not one of them has a 'failure' story in the published books. Like I said, it was an interesting read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jkbookshelf Posted March 19, 2009 Share Posted March 19, 2009 Back in the day when I started watching CM, I wondered if he was all hype and the show was "fixed." Well I tried a few of his ideas from the first season and it was as if our dogs said, "Oh, NOW I know what you're talking about!" As the show has progressed, his methods have changed. And so have the disclaimers. One of the things he's helped us with is visitors. The "No talk, no touch, no eye contact" approach really does calm the dogs down and they're actually civil to people instead of all crazy. I also watch Victoria Stilwell and a combination of the two similar approaches works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NewGreyOwner Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 Well I am sure that if Cesar had only put in the information about the success people would be asking about the failure or the holes in his resume and what about that dog with those crazy people who looked at going outside with the dog as a worst nightmare... And lets face it if I could count the number of times I have watched that show and asked myself why in the world did those people get a dog in the first place they probably hoped that he would come "fix" the dog and they wouldn't have to change their lives or attitude. It is like a diet or exercise program only 20% of people succeed with their lifestyle change. But if his success rate is anything above that I would call his methods an overwhelming success. People are lazy and hard to change for something other than themselves. So I wouldn't say the "returns" are the dog or Cesar's fault it is just like in adopting a greyhound either not the right fit or silly owners. I agree with you 100%. Most of the folks on the show seem to have the same problem - they don't exercise their dogs because they are basically lazy. The dogs suffer because of this and end up with various behavioral problems. I think Cesar does an excellent job, and I find his show entertaining and informative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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