Running With Arthritis

[MattB]

Nearly 18 months ago Daisy (8yo girl) developed a limp and x-rays showed what the vet said was quite advanced arthritis, she was prescribed anti-inflammatories and we used them daily for about a month but then reduced it to a tablet at the first sign of a limp.

 

Daisy has been doing really great. She lives for her walks. She has half an hour in the morning and then 45 mins to an hour in the afternoons (longer at weekends). We have a garden and she usually does some zoomies at some point. After a heavy zooming session Daisy's limp sometimes reappears. I give her a tablet straight away and she's ok in a couple of hours. She's also taking some joint aid supplement.

 

My question is whether I should be trying to prevent Daisy from running around? I worry that it's going to cause further damage to her joints (it's her front right wrist that's affected). She's fine after a little bit of a run around but sometimes she gets so excited and really goes for it. At the same time I don't want to stop her doing what makes her happy.

[PrairieProf]

My vet has always said when I have worried about letting my former or current greyhound run because of this or that possible risk, "Let her be a dog." Running is a greyhound's greatest joy. (Obviously they need not to run when healing from an acute injury, but that's not we're discussing.)

Edited May 1, 2017 by PrairieProf

[cleptogrey]

We experienced the same decline in felix at that age. I unsuccessfully tried to limit his running. Initially Metacam did wonders. I started with 10 days then reduced to a dose every other day. When the weather was lousy i would make sure he had a dose.

There were no positive results from each and every suppliment that I invested in. I read all the dialogues,links,blogs....nada.

 

the we moved on to adequan. It's a pain starting it,6 intramuscular injections 3-4 days apart. The loading process then boosters as needed. I add metacam on the days he is going to run at the beach or when he seems stiff but the adequan has given him a new lease on life.

 

It's used widely in the equestrian world,not all vets are aware of the great results. Not all owners want to deal with the loading schedule. My female uses it as well.both are doing well on it.

Edited May 1, 2017 by cleptogrey

[juliemac]

I'm of the "let them be a dog" school, and since "painful limp" is a phrase that causes my heart to stop, I would make sure I worked with my vet to have guidelines to know when to bring a hound in for further evaluation. Good luck with your sweetheart.

[Brandiandwe]

My view, as the owner of a dog who is both large, and raced quite heavily, is that you will eventually lose them anyhow. I would rather see my dog(s) living their lives to the full, with zoomies, walks, car trips, explorations of smelly drains and wonderful scents, and rough-housing, than wrapped up in cotton wool. So we take the approach that we allow our dogs to do what they feel up to (within reason), and manage the pain accordingly. If it becomes too much to manage, then we take the hard decision. But we want them to live a full life, not a life half lived and limited.

 

ETA: this is also why another one of our dogs is on a drug which gives her greater bladder control and retains her dignity, but which also increases her risk of cancer. She is happier now, and more relaxed. So if we lose her slightly sooner I must accept that her time with us was happier than it would have otherwise been.

 

This is not a decision everyone would make, but it's one I'm at peace with.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Brandiandwe

[heartdogs]

I agree let her be a dog & run if she wants. My oldest boy has shoulder problems so when it hurts he doesn't run, unless a neighbors brat cat teases the boys he watches how much he runs without me having to restrict him.

[JohnF]

Peggy has an intermittent right wrist problem too which I think it is more to do with tendonitis. When she gets a limp from it she can be 4-6 weeks recovering and in that time I try to minimise eccentric exercise (stopping suddenly from running or running fast down a steep hill, jumping around another dog and stopping etc). So if doing zoomies I don't shout for her to stop as that's worse than stopping like she intends to do. She's not on regular meds for it as up til now it improves on its own.

What you really must do on an injured leg like that is make sure they don't have any corns, otherwise accommodating for them puts all kinds of unusual stresses on the tendons, ligaments and muscle structures.

 

If your dog limps more on hard dry ground then definitely look for corns and if you hear your dog's footfall hammering hard on the dry ground it's likely to cause problems.

[GeorgeofNE]

As someone who suffers from arthritis pain, I would suggest you KEEP her on the medication, not just wait until she's in so much pain she limps.

 

Arthritis never goes away once it's begun. Assuming she is otherwise healthy and you agree to monitoring of her blood work to make sure the NSAID isn't doing any damage, there is no good reason not to give her the lowest effective dose daily.

[MattB]

As someone who suffers from arthritis pain, I would suggest you KEEP her on the medication, not just wait until she's in so much pain she limps.

 

Arthritis never goes away once it's begun. Assuming she is otherwise healthy and you agree to monitoring of her blood work to make sure the NSAID isn't doing any damage, there is no good reason not to give her the lowest effective dose daily.

 

Thanks - Re: only giving meds when she limps this was what the vet suggested after she seemed a lot better after 4 weeks of NSAIDs - I'm not trying to ration her meds. Day to day Daisy doesn't show any signs of being in discomfort i.e. no stiffness on getting up, desperate to go on walks, jumps on and off the bed easily etc. This sounded sensible to me but would you suggest I look at getting a prescription for a lowish dose and use that more consistently?

 

[tbhounds]

Have you tried to keep her duralactin?

[NeylasMom]

I personally wouldn't give NSAIDs unless you feel she needs them. If she's in pain, definitely don't withhold them, but there can be long term side effects so if she truly doesn't given any signs that she's in discomfort, I personally would continue with as needed as you've been doing. Agree with the suggestion of Duralactin, as well as adding in fish oil if she's not already on it. Boswellia and Curcumin are also natural anti-inflammatories that may help. You could try those to see if the limping after running is mitigated (would be a good sign they're helping). None of the above carries the long terms risks that NSAIDs do so imho if you can buy some time with those and hold off on needing the daily NSAID until she's a bit older, go for it. But if the time comes that she needs them daily, don't hesitate to use them and just monitor blood work.

[cleptogrey]

As someone who suffers from arthritis pain, I would suggest you KEEP her on the medication, not just wait until she's in so much pain she limps.

 

Arthritis never goes away once it's begun. Assuming she is otherwise healthy and you agree to monitoring of her blood work to make sure the NSAID isn't doing any damage, there is no good reason not to give her the lowest effective dose daily.

for those of us old enough to have arthritis this is the way we feel.

 

for those who are young enough not to have experienced it first hand there are the other options mentioned.

 

do talk to your vet. bring in a list of everything mentioned a-z and ask for their professional opinion. all vets have their preference and they should know your dog. there may be some other options out there that were not mentioned. don't feel guilty giving some pain relief in what ever form you decide.

[MattB]

I personally wouldn't give NSAIDs unless you feel she needs them. If she's in pain, definitely don't withhold them, but there can be long term side effects so if she truly doesn't given any signs that she's in discomfort, I personally would continue with as needed as you've been doing. Agree with the suggestion of Duralactin, as well as adding in fish oil if she's not already on it. Boswellia and Curcumin are also natural anti-inflammatories that may help. You could try those to see if the limping after running is mitigated (would be a good sign they're helping). None of the above carries the long terms risks that NSAIDs do so imho if you can buy some time with those and hold off on needing the daily NSAID until she's a bit older, go for it. But if the time comes that she needs them daily, don't hesitate to use them and just monitor blood work.

 

Thanks NeylasMom - sounds in line with my thinking. We had a retriever who sadly died young from a stomach ulcer which the vet said was caused by the NSAIDs he'd been on for some time (this was a few years ago and there was never any suggestion of blood work - we were quite naive perhaps). I will certainly try those alternatives. We've just run out of our usual vetvits supplement which I wasn't sure was doing anything and are just waiting for 'joint aid' to arrive.

[racindog]

My vet has always said when I have worried about letting my former or current greyhound run because of this or that possible risk, "Let her be a dog." Running is a greyhound's greatest joy. (Obviously they need not to run when healing from an acute injury, but that's not we're discussing.)

 

Thats the same thing the vet told me when I was concerned about my Ivy running after her amputation. He said 'you've got to let her run." He was right. Actually it is my understanding that it really HELPS arthritic dogs because it helps keep them limber and provides natural lubrication for the joints from the activity.

[GeorgeofNE]

Take ALL advice for what it is. Free opinions on the web! But I do disagree. Chronic pain needs ongoing treatment. Just because she isn't limping doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. Why would you withhold medication that can relieve pain? I just don't get that. My rheumatologist once told me "there is no value in suffering." In other words, refusing to take medication on an ongoing basis over some fear of "getting hooked" or side effects does not ultimately make any sense.

 

If you have x-rays showing significant degeneration of her joints it's beyond me why the advice would be to only medicate her when she is visibly suffering.

[JohnF]

>>it's beyond me why the advice would be to only medicate her when she is visibly suffering.>>

 

It doesn't need to be: some side effects like the one the Metacam group of drugs can have on stomach linings and kidneys can be devastating. Give too much Tramadol when the liver, lungs and kidneys aren't working too well (and therefore not clearing it) and you'll risk heart problems as well. I knew when my last dog needed more than the low manitenance dose and she got it continually in her last months even though I knew for sure it was shortening her life. Every dog is different, so is every owner, so is their anecdotal advice. Vets likewise can only take their very best shot at tailoring medication to the individual based on their expereince. I think it is wonderful that we usually can help our dogs with arthritis, don't you?

[cleptogrey]

How about adequan injections. No,or very little side effects.Some one else in heath and medical asked about it. Worked wonders for my dogs

[greyhoundgang]

Again, a topic near and dear to my heart.

There are many ways to help with arthritis naturally - and EIGHT is NOT old.

 

1. Joint Supplements. Whatever you purchase just make sure they are high quality and you give enough. Greyhounds need 1500 mgs of EACH - Glucosamine, MSM, Chondroitin. Vitamin C to bowel tolerance.

2. Anti-inflammatory. My go-to is YUCCA.

3. Acupuncture

4. Cold Laser

5. Turmeric Golden Paste

to name just a few.

 

Essay on Arthritis - Achy, Breaky Joints

[Brandiandwe]

8 can be old. We have an old 9 year old, and lost Benny at an old 11. So much depends on what they have done, experienced, their care, racing life etc etc. So you need to look at the dog in front of you, not the dog you think you've got, or their numerical age.

[MattB]

Thank you all for your comments and advice - apologies for the delay, I have been away for a couple of days.

 

I suppose that my thinking re: not medicating all of the time is that I believe I am able to tell whether Daisy is uncomfortable - to me, if she is eager to go on walks, doing zoomies, pulling on the lead, racing up and down the stairs and jumping around in the house and otherwise appearing happy, then I don't think she is experiencing pain. At the first sign of any discomfort, stiffness or looking uncomfortable then I currently give her the previcox. I continue to give her joint aid supplements daily. This is consistent with my own attitude towards pain (I have chronic pain), I put up with a degree of it and then use medication when it bothers me. I realise that this is me making a judgement about how Daisy is feeling and this is certainly something I will talk to our vet about at our next appointment as I would hate to be making an incorrect assumption.

 

Thanks again.

[Guest Rainy]

I don't know if it is available in the UK, but cannabis (prescribed for pets) is also a very good anti-inflammatory that has fewer side effects then many other drugs.

[Neal]

This has been a really helpful post, the various inputs bring a lot to the topic.

Unfortunately no legal cannabis option on this very rainy emerald island.

Lord knows it could help in a lot of ways i suspect

 

My Ned is nearly 11. Since February the recurring, limping got so severe that it was hard to see any improvement ever coming.

Understanding how stoic these beauties, and animals in general are and evolved not to show pain. It was heart breaking to understand how much suffering a dog can endure and show very little outward signs sometimes. Rebalancing on the less effected legs as a way of "keeping going".

Having availed of glucosamine, condrontin, fish oils, turmeric and all sorts for years. And no doubt they have helped and played a part in wellness.

Now i have accepted that its pain management for the rest of time we have together. In the past sometimes, i thought after a few weeks, "he looks much better",laid off the medications, various X-rays along the way attributed largely arthritis as the culprit,

without truly accepting, did, arthritis never really gets better in any major way. A busy racing life, and many injuries along the way.

Was superglad/relieved to have good results from a full blood test this week, keeping a low maintenance dose I pray will bring more benefits than disadvantages. When every day is a blessing there's a quality over quantity in our situation.

So many wonderful people on this forum have lost their dearly loved greyhounds so suddenly, and after such hard long&short fought battles with illnesses. With the benefit of all your experiences.

Truly every day is a blessing and the modifications along the way, a part the journey.