Terrible D Vets Aren't Sure Why (Health/food & Diet)

[Guest AliJane]

Hello - I apologize for the lengthy post and a possible repeat topic but I've been reading similar threads and my head is all over the place because there's so many different opinions and variations

 

My 7 year old guy (Truman) has been having varying forms of D for the past month. I've had him 4 years and he's almost never had a solid stool but it's typically still formed. But this month it's been no more solid than pudding on his better days and straight brown water the rest. His appetite has been normal (hes been on wellness chicken and oatmeal since I got him) he's drinking water his temperament was still the same. Just really terrible runs. Vet prescribed an antibiotic and that science diet Bland food. Nothing changed after 2 weeks. So then she said to do a chicken and rice diet and did a stool sample. Stool sample results came back clean and this bland diet started firming up his stool but it was still no more formed than pudding. So we ran a full blood panel and it came back normal. Now she has me using fortiflora while still doing the chicken and rice. But his poo is back to straight brown water again and he's having to go much more frequently. He's begun dropping his weight and seems "sad". I'm getting so frustrated because I don't know what's wrong and I don't know how to help him I want to give the fortiflora time to work but I feel like the chicken and rice isn't helping him. I've read some people say it works some people say stear clear of it.

 

I have been over cooking the rice with extra water so it is very mushy. Also using low sodium chicken broth and even letting the boiled chicken boil a little longer in with the rice.

 

What other diets should I try for him while giving the fortiflora time to get his system boosted?

 

And what do you think this sudden burst of the runs could be from?

 

Thank you for taking the time to read through all this I really appreciate and welcome and advise and opinions. I want my boy to feel better!!

 

-Ali & Truman

[turbotaina]

He may have developed an allergy or intolerance to chicken, so you can try a novel protein, like venison or rabbit. Rather than rice, you can use sweet potatoes. You can also add metamucil to his food, either by giving him metamucil wafers or a tablespoon of the granular stuff on his food.

 

Also, I would worm with panacur in two courses, just because (3 weeks apart). Has your vet considered IBD with your dog? Have you tried Tylan powder? Have you tried different foods?

 

There could be any number of things going on, but you should either push your vet on this or go see a specialist. I think I'd go the specialist route myself - a good one is worth his or her weight in gold.

Edited November 24, 2015 by turbotaina

[greysmom]

Change his protein source. If chicken has been his main protein source for all these years, and he has been sick all of them, it's time to try a unique protein - probably a fish like salmon or tilapia, but you can also try venison or rabbit if using a commercial diet.

 

Do another round (or two) of de-wormer, as they can be notoriously difficult to completely clear. Negative fecals don't really mean anything.

 

Also, I would seek an opinion from a different vet if she hasn't even suggested this by now.

[Ragsysmum]

I'd ditch the chicken too as I've had several dogs who couldn't tolerate it.

[XTRAWLD]

You can go really really bland for a a few days. White rice (not overcooked) and beef broth only (no kibble). See if he perks back up. The D causes dehydration quickly, so the broth will help keep his fluids if he's not drinking enough. If he's having runny stool on something that simple, you've got a bit of a long haul....

 

Moving away from all chicken might help. Before going extra exotic (extra $$) like venison or roo (and IMO Science Diet really isn't all that great), look for an LTD diet of something like Sweet Potato and Fish (Natural Balance). These are designed for allergy affected dogs, or dogs that have intestinal issues.

 

I have had great success with a canned food by Royal Canin Gastro Intestinal High Protein - this might however be chicken based, but will help your pup gain some wait back and be easy on the tummy.

 

The worry I have with beginning a food trial, is that his insides are already angry and another food type might throw him for a further loop - but if he's been on chicken everything forever, I really say give it a go and eliminate it completely and start working with something else. Don't forget to eliminate any treats that have chicken base in them too.....

 

Alternatively - a bandaid solution that always seems to have good results is the Iams Green Bag (again it's chicken - you'll find chicken in nearly everything!) There is something in there that seems to work as a miracle on many pups, however it really could be masking underlying problems.

 

Fortiflora will get his insides back to a natural state. Very similar to just adding some yogurt to his diet too. I don't see how that could hurt at this point.

Edited November 24, 2015 by XTRAWLD

[MaryJane]

The chicken could be the cause - switch to fried hamburger (about 90%) and be careful of too much fat.

 

You might also want to add a bit more fiber to the diet - add a few tablespoons of cooked oatmeal to the food.

 

I would not overcook the rice - cook according to package directions. After a few days, you might want to cook up some elbow macaroni (cook 15 minutes to get tender) and try a few tablespoons of that in the food.

 

If he can take yogurt - try that, just make sure it not "no fat" or "low fat".

[Guest AliJane]

Thank you everyone!!

 

Ditching the chicken sounds like the overall opinion and seems like a good idea. I considered it but with his tummy being as upset as it is I didn't want to do more harm than good by cutting out chicken when it's been his primary protein source all this time. Now seems as good a time as any to switch though! My vet did mention a dewormer as a next step so I will contact her and give that a go since that seems to be another agreed upon idea.

 

My next question would be how should I go about switching his food? I know about the general slow transition by mixing them but with him currently on a bland diet and not any kibble but with his belly and bowels being a mess right now how should I begin the switch? Should I do a non chicken canned food with a bit of rice or stick with rice and add fish or what other combination would be best..? I don't want to shock his system and hurt when I just want to help.

[XTRAWLD]

IMO I'd just simply switch. No weaning, just go cold turkey. I know it's advocated on many food labels etc., but I have never had issues by just switching immediately to a different food.

[locket]

We had issues with Jack too. He was on lamb kibble, but having terrible gas and mushy poos. We put him on a bland diet, (chicken and rice) it got better, a week later, it was perfect poo, but horrible cramps. We wormed and switched to another brand of kibble (chicken and rice) as it just couldn't be any worse. We had explosive diarrhea (that was normal on kibble at this point...) and pudding poo at first and were about to cry. We waited just for the sake of it. One week later, perfect poo. We then wormed a second time to be sure and we didn't have any more issues

[Hubcitypam]

The only thing that fixed Rex was the beet pulp in Iams and I went to heck and back trying foods. My epitaph should read "finally I threw a green bag of Iams in the cart and called it a day".

 

IMO a recurring problem with greys is that people try to feed only the most expensive highly rated foods and they are too rich for the dogs. I had free Blue Buffalo I couldn't feed as poo would be water no matter how long the transition.

 

I posted in another thread -

 

Low/no chicken kibbles might include:

Many Natural Balance LID foods
Pro Plan sensitive systems (salmon)
Purina One sensitive systems (salmon - but chicken cartilage is the 11th ingredient)
Pure Balance salmon and pea and bison and pea (Wal-Mart but don't faint...the bison and pea rates 4.5 stars on the sainted dog food advisor)

 

I went crazy finding something Rex could eat and all the vets did was worm and test him within an inch of his life and write a standing script for Flagyl so you have my sympathies.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Hubcitypam

[Burpdog]

Start with boiled meat only, then add potatoes. If he is still with the D, worm him with panacur 5 days or

 

Easy, cheap test: buy some frozen BilJac and feed it only -- no treats, no nothing else. If he has loose stools or big D on it, you have a problem (most likely worms) There is some chicken in the frozen but its raw and I've never had a problem with it. If he straightens up, you know it's the food.

[Roo]

Iams helped my guy with the D. Might also be worth a try to get some loose beet pulp (they carry it at farm supply stores I think) and mixing that in his food if the kibble itself doesn't have any. We use it at PRH and it helps! It's sent home with all adopters for their new pups since it can firm up a really loose stool.

[Houndtime]

Look up the veterinarians potato diet. It worked for Fuzzy after I spent $1300 at the vets for tests and special food. Within 12 hours his diarrhea was done with. You can only keep your dog on it for 5 days, but, you can add a protein. We added canned, human brands, chicken. Also, when my dogs have an upset stomach, I give them a tablespoon full of home cooked oatmeal and slippery elm bark. There are so many good suggestions, try the most reasonable ones first. I do feed my dogs IAM's now; no more expensive, rich dog foods for them. Back to basics.

[Brandiandwe]

I'd get rid of the rice and the chicken myself. I know that until we got a food Paige could tolerate, she was liquid. Awful stuff. And transition immediately because, really, could it be any worse?

[Trudy]

potatoes, oatmeal and pasta (if your dog is ok with wheat) are also other things you can use in a bland diet.

 

Neither Jet or Ryan could do lamb or chicken. They were fine with beef and fish.

Ryan also couldn't have wheat.

 

If all testing at the vet has come back negative, start with the food. Good luck, been there, it sucks!

[cleptogrey]

mild or inflamed pancreas??? only your vet will know. all of his blood work came back normal, right?? a simple blood test(in house) will let your vet know if his pancreas is affected by the fats in his diet.

 

i am a firm believe in boiled/over cooked white rice and a mushed up hamburger or possibly boiled white chicken meat- i cook the two together, saves time and dirty pots. i would keep him on rice and 20% or less meat until things calm down then s-l-o-w-l-y- 1/4c at a time reintroduce kibble.

 

which antibiotic was he given? flagyl? do talk to your vet. if the flagyl cleaned it up initially he may need another round, i've had dogs who needed repeat rounds of flagyl, the bacteria is still in their gut.

 

check out the #s in the food you are serving, as hub citypam mentioned, "that green bag" sometimes less is more.

[Guest AliJane]

I've switched him to natural balance LID sweet potato and fish kibble/canned and he is doing much better. His stool is firming up and now just soft stool not straight diarrhea. So I am continuing the fortiflora and this new diet and seeing how that goes. But the stool is improving and he's got the pep back in his step and is beginning to fill back out and not look sickly.

 

Thanks again for all the suggestions and advice everyone I will update the thread in the coming weeks with Trumans progress.

[turbotaina]

Glad to hear he's improving