gryhndens Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 It's been a long time since I last posted, but I do lurk now and again. Vicky started limping about two weeks ago- we couldn't find a source of pain or injury, so we limited her time outside and eliminated the daily walks. The limp only got worse. We took her to the vet yesterday and he took xrays. He said there could be a variety of issues, but he felt strongly we are dealing with osteo. We have a referral to a local oncologist, but I am just sitting here thinking of the worst and crying. The more xrays I see and stories I read, I think he's right. Those of you who have dealt with this before, what do you think? On top of the limp, Vicky has lost weight- she's down from a high of 55 to a low of 50lbs. Her personality has changed- she is much sweeter and seeking attention. The other two rarely leave her side, which is also a new occurrence. Any thoughts or suggestions welcome. Despite everything going on... she is still roaching. Left side images are of the "good" leg and the right side images are the "bad" leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scouts_mom Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I am so very sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Well, sadly I have to agree with your vet--it's very suspicious of Osteo. I would consult with Dr Couto. http://www.coutovetconsultants.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_daerr Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I'm so sorry. The films very clearly look like osteo to me. The shadows and black spots in the 'bad leg' are consistent with osteolytic lesions (i.e. spots where the cancer has eaten holes through the bone). There's a rare chance it could be a more treatable type, but it definitely appears to be some kind of malignant cancer. I'd do the oncology consult ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlies_Dad Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I'm sorry to read of Vicky's diagnosis. I second the consult with Dr Coutu. We chose amp and chemo for our boy when he was diagnosed and he lived another 21 mths happy and pain free. Please take a look at the Osteo thread if you have not already as it lists your options and there are current participants who have chosen different paths. Quote Kyle with Stewie ('Super C Ledoux, Super C Sampson x Sing It Blondie) and forever missing my three angels, Jack ('Roy Jack', Greys Flambeau x Miss Cobblepot) and Charlie ('CTR Midas Touch', Leo's Midas x Hallo Argentina) and Shelby ('Shari's Hooty', Flying Viper x Shari Carusi) running free across the bridge. Gus an coinnich sinn a'rithist my boys and little girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhndens Posted May 18, 2014 Author Share Posted May 18, 2014 Thank you, everyone. Still in shock and we are moving forward tomorrow morning with getting an appt for the biopsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Thank you, everyone. Still in shock and we are moving forward tomorrow morning with getting an appt for the biopsy. I urge you to reconsider the biopsy. Please contact Dr Couto--he will make suggestions on how to proceed. Please no biopsy (cytology yes but, if you biopsy that leg there is an incredibly good chance that the leg will break). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I'm really sorry you're facing this. Unfortunately it looks to ky uneducated eye like you are dealing with osteo and that its quite progressed. I second tbhounds strong recommendation to skip the biopsy and just consult with Dr. Couto on a treatment plan. Biopsy really isn't recommended because of the risk of fracture and given your xrays i really wouldn't risk it. Obviously I'm not a professional, but tbhounds is. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_daerr Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Agree re: the biopsy. When dealing with OSA, biopsies are largely inaccurate. You have to get it in the exact spot, otherwise it's inconclusive. As the others pointed out, the biopsy is also very painful and you run the risk of the leg fracturing or breaking. I am certain Dr. Couto would agree that a biopsy is a waste of time at this point. It's a rare, rare circumstance that osteolytic lesions in a greyhound are anything but cancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhndens Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 Ok- I finally got the go ahead to contact Dr. Couto and I have. NO BIOPSY at this time. How long does Dr. Couto normally take to reply/contact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 He'll reply very quickly. At times there will be a slight delay if he's traveling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP_the4pack Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissn333 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Definitely do not biopsy. Visit the Osteo Thread here in this forum. You're going to need advice and support. Unfortunately there are too many members of this awful club, but, what that means is there are a bunch of us who have walked this path (some of us many times), and we can be there to support you. Quote Kristin in Moline, IL USA with Ozzie (MRL Crusin Clem), Clarice (Clarice McBones), Latte and Sage the IGs, and the kitties: Violet and Rose Lovingly Remembered: Sutra (Fliowa Sutra) 12/02/97-10/12/10, Pinky (Pick Me) 04/20/03-11/19/12, Fritz (Fritz Fire) 02/05/01 - 05/20/13, Ace (Fantastic Ace) 02/05/01 - 07/05/13, and Carrie (Takin the Crumbs) 05/08/99 - 09/04/13. A cure for cancer can't come soon enough.-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houndmommy03 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Glad you aren't doing biopsy. I did one one my hound (years ago and before I heard of Greytalk) and it came back normal but she did have osteo (finally dx'd by Dr.Couto looking at xrays). So I needlessly put my pup through that. Good luck and I'm really sorry you and your pup are facing this. Hugs to you both. Quote <p>Kim and the hound - RumorMissing my angels Marlow, Silver, Holly and Lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Update??? Did Dr Couto respond yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamaha_gurl Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Nothing but hugs your way Quote Greyhound Collars : www.collartown.ca Maggie (the human servant), with Miss Bella, racing name "A Star Blackieto" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhndens Posted May 20, 2014 Author Share Posted May 20, 2014 This was a very long day for me. I heard from Dr. Couto before I left for work and he confirmed what we were afraid of. He did suggest the aspiration and said he would chat with our vet regarding the procedure. It is scheduled for Thursday morning. I asked Dr. Couto a follow up question and he responded almost immediately. Very impressed. I sat at work (I am a teacher) and pretty much disregarded my students all day, as I read all the osteo threads. I worried about what was happening at home- I just wanted to go home. So many of the feelings I was having were part of the posts I was reading. So I know my feelings are normal, but I am scared, distraught, frustrated, confused and honestly wondering where all these tears keep coming from. I will be staying home the next two days. I can't stay at school concerned that Vicky is going to get up on a couch or the bed and then shatter her leg as she tries to get down. I can't imagine the suffering she would go through then. I will go to work Thursday, once I leave her in the care of the vet. Daddy man will be home Friday, so she doesn't have to be home without human companionship. As for how she is doing today- no appetite whatsoever. She finally ate a little breakfast after I opened the peanut butter jar. Other than cheese with her pain meds she has had no interest this evening. She was very loving and pushy for attention when I got home, but now she seems agitated and uncomfortable. She has stood at the couch a couple times, wanting to get up, but then settles onto the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeylasMom Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I'm really sorry. An aspiration is not the same thing as a biopsy by the way. He's probably referring to an FNA, a fine needle aspirate. It's a much smaller needle, unlikely to break the bone and less painful (many vets will do it without anesthesia), but it can still give inconclusive results. I'm sort of surprised he's recommending it. Are you sure he was, or just saying you could if you wanted some other confirmation? I chose not to do it. I just didn't see the point. We knew what we were dealing with. Quote Jen, CPDT-KA with Zuri, lab in a greyhound suit, Violet, formerly known as Faith, Skye, the permanent puppy, Cisco, resident cat, and my baby girl Neyla, forever in my heart "The great thing about science is that you're free to disagree with it, but you'll be wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_daerr Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I got the FNA for Henry just to be sure we didn't amputate the leg and (in the million to one chance) have it end up being something more benign, like a bone cyst or osteomyelitis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busderpuddle Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I am so sorry you are having to deal with this. Prayers for you and Vicki. Quote Karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhounds Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I'm sure Dr Couto (is t he wonderful?) already mentioned this but, I think it's worth mentioning again---might be wise to do thoracic chest rads prior to performing any other test. If Vicki has lung mets you will have to decide if going forward with any other treatment makes sense. I'm truly sorry you are facing this awful disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galgrey Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I'm so very sorry to read this devastating news. Quote Cynthia, & Cristiano, galgoAlways in my heart: Frostman Newdawn Frost, Keno Jet Action & Chloe (NGA racing name unknown), Irys (galgo), Hannah (weim), Cruz (galgo), & Carly CW Your Charming Princess http://www.greyhound-data.com/d?i=1018857 "It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them. And every new dog who comes into my life, gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as generous and loving as they are." -- Unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a_daerr Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I'm sure Dr Couto (is t he wonderful?) already mentioned this but, I think it's worth mentioning again---might be wise to do thoracic chest rads prior to performing any other test. If Vicki has lung mets you will have to decide if going forward with any other treatment makes sense. I'm truly sorry you are facing this awful disease. Definitely agree with this. Chest x-rays will tell you if the cancer has metastasized to the lungs, and if so, how far progressed it is. That being said, 90% of osteo dogs have micro-mets in their lungs (that can't be seen on x-ray) by the time they start presenting with lameness/limping. So, I mean to say, the chest x-rays aren't foolproof. But they may influence your decision on a treatment plan moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP_the4pack Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I'm so very sorry Vicky has this horrid horrid disease. I don't want to persuade you one way or the other. Just give you my story. My Diamond had it in her front leg. I drove out to OSU where Dr Couto was at the time and had the surgery done out there. (I'm in NJ - was a 9 hr drive). The first two weeks were really rough and I wondered every day if I did the right thing. But once she healed and was off the drugs, she was a different dog. She was happy and chasing deer. I had her for 6 months until OS hit another leg. Her lungs were always clear. Diamond was 12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhndens Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) Thank you all for your insight! Dr. Couto has not mentioned the thoracic xrays, but I will discuss this with the vet Thursday morning. I stayed home today, and will tomorrow, which is good for both of us. She is only going about six hours before she is literally begging for pain meds. She wanted to be outside today and was going up to anyone that she happened to see (who knew our neighborhood was so busy during the day). I spoke with my next door neighbor, who I haven't even seen in months, only to discover their dog was just diagnosed with bone cancer. What is the likelihood? She is putting absolutely no weight on the leg, but was able to run/walk across the back yard on three legs. Edited May 21, 2014 by gryhndens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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