Letting Them Run Free

[FiveRoooooers]

Ducky is so much more articulate than I am, thank you Ducky.

[4My2Greys]

I'll keep practicing recall, but I will never trust it to work. Maybe I'm setting up myself for failure, but I don't want to test that with my dog's life.

I don't think your setting yourself up for failure. Chase's recall is pretty good, but I really need to work on it more. I probably still wouldn't off leash though because I'm a nervous Nelly and would be afraid that one time I chose to something could happen. However, I don't feel this means I love my dogs more than someone who works daily reinforcing training that chooses to allow their dogs off leash. I would have loved to have given Nadir, Bruiser, and Beanie the experiences Tiffany gives her dogs.

[CharlieRhea]

Wow @ responses. I wasn't clear in what i wrote that i would never Charlie off leash. What prompted that question was a pic here of a Grey running at the beach and i envied that. I would only allow him in a fenced area but i appreciate the responses.

[Sambuca]

I agree with Krissy, in that greyhounds are undertrained. I can't tell you how many people with greyhounds have said they haven't taught their greyhounds anything but their name because they're so well behaved. I read an article from a sighthound adoption group about what to do if you're dog gets loose. No where did it even mention training the dogs recall to try to call the dog back. It automatically assumed that none if the dogs would come when called. It's sad that most people don't even attempt any training for these guys. I think that's where most of the problems come in. The other is that many people are paranoid and never even walk their dogs. Of course the dog is going to bolt at the first opportunity if it never leaves it's back yard. It's bored and under stimulated! My dogs go everywhere with me, they know what's out there. I can leave the door wide open when getting food delivered and they'll sniff the person and come back in. I do off leash them in specific safe spots. They are fantastic. I've done lots of training with them and they are better than 99% of the dogs we see. After exploring for a bit and peering and pooping, they come and walk next to or behind me. As in I can reach down and touch them or they're stepping on my heels (which is really fun on a hike). I don't think being off leash is suited for all dogs, but with training, some are fantastic candidates for it.

[Feisty49]

I'm of the opinion that your dog, you do what you want. That sounds cruel knowing what can happen to a dog who gets loose, but it's the truth, if only because people do it. I've been on searches for dogs that, thankfully, had happy endings, but the worry and terror of knowing a Grey is out there lost is horrible.

 

I don't off leash because, like others, I haven't drilled recall into Annie's brain enough so that I trust her. Even if I had, I know for a fact that if she were loose and saw a person 50 feet ahead of us, she'd run like crazy to say, "Hi. How are ya? I'm here. Pet me pet me. I lovvvvve you."

 

What I haven't seen mentioned in the posts -- perhaps I missed it -- is the speed at which a Greyhound can take off. Any dog can run away, but not every dog can gain the momentum and speed a Greyhound can in seconds. How far can a Golden run in 30 seconds compared to a Greyhound? Is the Golden still within hearing distance? Is the Greyhound? Recall can obviously work if the dog can hear it.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Feisty49

[Sambuca]

I think the speed part comes in large down to knowing the prey drive of the dog. Mine have very low- no prey drive. Also, where I go is used for field trials, so there are no animals stupid enough to go there. I've never even seen a squirrel there and only occasional birds, so there's nothing to chase.

[Guest WhiteWave]

Precisely. Those of us who regularly understand the risk and accept the risk for the benefit. I couldn't do agility if I didn't off leash my dogs ever. People on here lure course... can't lure course in a fully enclosed area in most cases.

 

It is not that I trust my dogs implicitly. I trust their training to the degree in which that is reasonable and understand that it could fail.

 

We all take risks every day in order to benefit our lives. I watched a woman roll her SUV last Christmas. We stopped and rushed to help her, her daughter, and their dog to get out of the vehicle and called an ambulance. Fortunately they were unhurt. But if they had been, I wouldn't say "if you saw a car roll and everyone was dead in it, you wouldn't drive again". What you WOULD do is drive more carefully, but the risk would still exist.

 

My point is, this epidemic in the greyhound world is completely wrong. We flame people for putting in the training to safely off leash their dogs. But we don't flame people who didn't provide their dog any training and had a "close call" with an open door or dropped leash. Backwards. You can train your dog to be off leashable and CHOOSE NOT TO. As you said, we all have a comfort level. But in my opinion, it is not stupid and irresponsible to train your dog to be off leash and accept those risks. It IS irresponsible to not train your dog because you will never off leash it, and accept THOSE RISKS... the risk of a slipped collar, open door, open gate, broken leash. (And for those who choose not to off leash but have a dog trained enough to do it safely, kudos on providing your dog with safety and not a false sense of security.)

 

ETA: I am not trying to be overly argumentative. But it does baffle me how the retired racing community thinks this is the solution. People had dog training all wrong 20 years ago and now we know that positive reinforcement is the way to do it. One day I hope the greyhound community will start to get it right too. It doesn't happen without talking about it though so I hope everyone will keep this lively but cordial.

 

ETA: also, to clarify, it is not my opinion that all greyhounds or most greyhound ad should be off leashed. Completely the opposite. Most dog owners of any breed will not put in the effort required to off leash and should keep their pets safely contained. My problem is with this blanket statement that makes greyhounds sound like they are special or different or untrainable and therefore we shouldn't bother to train and just keep them on a leash. I'm simply here to suggest that IF someone were inclined to put in the effort as some of us here have... it may be achievable. And to suggest that maybe we should put in at least SOME effort even if we do not put in as much as is necessary to off leash.

Great Post!

[Guest Doggone]

IMO, doing off-leash requires the combination of right dog, right owner, right training, and right surroundings.

 

In my circumstances, none of those apply. Autumn is still a semi-Velcro dog; she never goes away, so there's no point in calling her back (), I'm a senior, and the idea of running anywhere, including after a dog, is exhausting enough without actually doing it. There's only so much Autumn is willing to learn at her age (8), and our area, while green, has no expanses large enough for any dog to get a good run.

So we two seniors are each enjoying our somewhat leisurely retirements .

[Fruitycake]

We all take risks every day in order to benefit our lives. I watched a woman roll her SUV last Christmas. We stopped and rushed to help her, her daughter, and their dog to get out of the vehicle and called an ambulance. Fortunately they were unhurt. But if they had been, I wouldn't say "if you saw a car roll and everyone was dead in it, you wouldn't drive again". What you WOULD do is drive more carefully, but the risk would still exist.

 

 

I think of it more of "If you've seen an accident where someone was thrown from the car you'd never not wear your seatbelt again." To me, your analogy is more akin to never having a dog again if you've seen horrible repercussions of one lost.

 

I am also a paranoid, nervous nelly, and wouldn't trust Monty to not just wander off and get lost 10 feet from me if I were out of sight. NO prey drive, not nearly as spooky as he used to be, and just wandering around in his own little "sniff-tastic" world most of the time.

 

I don't blame people who have done the work, and have supreme confidence in the training that they have done and the dog's most likely reaction. I just wouldn't do it myself. My dog, my choice. Your dog, your advanced level of training, and your choice. I'm glad that there are people who do take the time and effort and can trust them enough that they can give them more free reign. The dogs must love it!

 

And this goes true with absolutely every dog out there, not just greys. Our prior dog had absolute recall and was completely reliable. Her recall word was 'hungry' and it probably saved us hundreds, if not thousands of dollars the night that she was in our backyard and the neighbor's two GSDs were out with him off leash and they charged at her from across the street - with NO recall whatsoever and he ALWAYS walked them without leashes. I gave the magic word when I saw the two dogs start charging in our direction, Marles came flying in the door and I slammed it right in the face of the other two dogs (one slammed into the door itself). His flustered stumbling and stuttered apology would have been me beating the crap out of him AND his dogs had they caught our dog on our property. I just yelled at him through the door that at least MY dog obeyed me.

[Yamaha_gurl]

Very good post Krissy. I agree with all of it. It's very sad to see dog owners not train their dogs. I still remember the time you said to me about how shaking a paw won't save a dogs life, but recall will. I wish more greyhound owners taught their dogs the basics: Down, stay, come here, leave it.

 

I off leash Bella now, after 2 years of recall training in enclosed areas, and even now it's only in areas I deem safe (miles away from roads/distractions)...but then again, I ride a motorcycle dragging knee into a corner at 180km/h. I know the risks involved, I just choose to live life not at the end of a leash < Pun intended.

[Guest Gemma]

I wish MORE dog owners, period, thought as much about the safety/training requirements of being off leash as much as sighthound folks do. All the off leash dogs I come across in my neighbourhood have NO recall, NO manners, and NO road savvy. Recipe for disaster!

 

In general, I think most folks who let their dogs off leash, regardless of breed, haven't put enough work in based on what I have seen. If your dog is smart and effectively recall claimed, I'm not going to flame you for letting them off leash. If I can walk my leashed dog by your off leash dog without fear it will rush me or my pup then I appreciate the work put into that, though it still makes me nervous.

 

Would I let my boy off leash? Nope. He will come when called but we haven't put that much work into it. He also once killed a cat when he was being fostered so I don't trust him not to slaughter a neighbour's outside cat, or a wild bunny, or any other critter that catches his eye. He also has no concept of road safety and is so people-oriented that he would walk out into a busy road if he saw someone on the other side who might pet him.

 

That said, he's going to be 12 this Aug and I know him well enough that I am not as obsessive about him getting off leash as I used to be. I know I can drop the leash by accident and he won't bolt. I know he will stand at a perfect heel after a walk by the front door with no interest in what is around him so I sometimes rest the leash on his back while I open up. There's some wiggle room, basically.

[Feisty49]

IMO, doing off-leash requires the combination of right dog, right owner, right training, and right surroundings.

 

In my circumstances, none of those apply. Autumn is still a semi-Velcro dog; she never goes away, so there's no point in calling her back ( ), I'm a senior, and the idea of running anywhere, including after a dog, is exhausting enough without actually doing it. There's only so much Autumn is willing to learn at her age (8), and our area, while green, has no expanses large enough for any dog to get a good run.

So we two seniors are each enjoying our somewhat leisurely retirements .

 

Love this! I'm a senior. Annie is not but we've taught each other very well how to do retirement.

[Guest Lillypad]

So very well said "brianamac" I like your way of thinking. My girl is WAY TOO PRECIOUS to me to take the chance... plus my hubby would leave me for sure, if I but his baby in harms way LOL. Now I guess you could say this is a selfish way of thinking... so be it... LOL

[krissn333]

It IS an excellent thing to train your dog. I believe it's important.

 

However, I personally do not have a need to let my dogs off leash to run without a fenced in area. I have access to a fenced in area that's over an acre. There's just no need for me to let them run loose when I can let them run in that secured area safely.

[Guest Lillypad]

This is a very entertaining post, everyone has very valid points.

 

I look at my greyhound as if she were a 3 or 4 year old child. Did I teach my 3-4 year old children to look both ways before crossing the street, did I tell them cars could squash them like a bug, did I teach them playground safety, of course like all parents, I did. Was I surprised when they lived in the moment and forgot all that I taught them... of course not. So.. as much as I have trained Lilly and we have and still do it all, obedience, rally-o, agility, therapy dog, CGC. I believe she has pretty good self-control. She waits for command entering and exiting doors (even our garage door). I have taught her to "down" about 4-5 feet from the front door when the bell rings, she must wait for my release before she can visit with guests. Question is, would I allow her off leash in an unsecured location, NOT A CHANCE. I want to have her around for a long, long, long time... forever really.

 

I think this thread comes down to personal preference, rather than right or wrong. I like to think of this post as a bunch of greyhound fans sitting over a glass of wine (or tea) and discussing our beloved hounds. These are the posts I like the most about greytalk.

 

The speed at which greyhounds travel and the space they cover is a genuine concern in my opinion. And Oh yes, no one has mentioned what may happen if your off leash greyhound encountered a not so sociable dog also off leash. That too may have a very bad outcome. Example, I often hear this from off leash dog owners... Oh don't worry, he is friendly. I say.."that may be, but are you sure my dog is friendly also"

Edited March 29, 2014 by Lillypad

[cleptogrey]

I'm definitely the minority here because I off-leash one of my dogs. He's been extensively recall-trained, though, and he's also very low-prey. I only allow him off-leash in remote areas (hiking) or on the beach. Nine out of ten times, off-leashing greyhounds is itresponsible and not worth the risk. But if you've done the work, there can be exceptions to the rule.

 

track dogs are very very different than what alicia and i have. so, we are not the norm and our comments, (mine is ditto to hers) can not be considered. my opps puppy who came to me at 7 weeks does not run free in the woods, beach- yes, fields that are not near any roads- yes, woods NO- too many deer. he has 2+ years of obedience training- many levels, agility and rally-o and is a certified therapy dog.

 

i too have taken out the pop corn and sitting back and enjoying the comments.

[Guest TeddysMom]

Even though I live out in the middle of "nowhere" on a gravel road with only 2 other houses on it, I still don't trust my GH's enough to let them out the front door. I worry more about them running into a barbed wire fence than anything. I figure they have 2 full acres to run and play safely right out the back door so other than country walks on the leashes, they stay here. I am babysitting my friends GH's right now and the other night I had company for dinner, one of her's and one of mine darted out the front door as the company came in, before I could grab the car keys and get to the car they came back and wanted in the door to greet the guests. Just in those few moments, my heart dropped to my stomach. I have lost enough this year that I just can't take any more so I am even more protective than ever I guess.

[krissy]

Just in those few moments, my heart dropped to my stomach. I have lost enough this year that I just can't take any more so I am even more protective than ever I guess.

3 minutes of recall training a day would eliminate that heart in stomach feeling.

[gracegirl]

Fenway loves the beach so very much. It's one of his great pleasures in life to fly across the sand and one of my great pleasures watching him. So we go to the not fully fenced beach. I've had Fenway since he was four months old (he's 7 years old now) and he's pretty attached to me. If he's not paying attention to me and I've walked on from the spot he last remembers me standing, he looks from side to side until he spots me. And then races over. It's quite endearing.

 

The other people at the beach also love watching him run. I was wondering just how many people will tell their wife/friend/neighbor/boss about the greyhound they saw today and how beautiful it was to watch him run.

 

It's a risk I take. A calculated risk, but one I'm willing to take. And I'm still in touch with his foster mom/group president and she knows how much I care about him.

 

(If Grace were still with me, I might not off lead her at the beach. Not because of her recall, but for her love of stink. She be rolling in every foul smelling thing out there. And in every single stink rolling case her recall failed. Every. Single. Time. God I miss that girl! )

Edited March 31, 2014 by gracegirl

[KickReturn]

I never really understood why this is a contentious issue. Common sense should prevail. If you can't trust your dog don't do it. If you can trust your dog only do it where it is safe. And finally no matter what you, your dog, or the situation is like, do not for a minute believe that there is no chance that your dog could be injured or killed. There is always a risk. This would apply to any breed, the difference being that the percentage of Greys that could be trusted is pretty small compared to some other breeds.

 

A couple of questions for Grey owners who are considering the off leash thing: can you call your Grey out of a full rush after a squirrel, rabbit or other dog? Does your Grey get anxious if they cannot see you? If you cannot answer yes to these questions, better to stick to a fenced area.

 

Not sure if the OP has seen some of my earlier posts related to this topic but there are some Greys that perform off leash no differently than any other breed of a sensible disposition. I no longer use a leash, haven't done so for over a year. The exception is if we are out when it is dark or in a area with traffic.

 

My feeling is that much of this comes down to the dog and the nature of the relationship with its person. If I actually knew how to train a dog I would attribute the behaviour below to my "amazing skills". The reality here is its just the dog and what seems to make him feel best. My experience with Greys is limited to a couple of dozen examples so perhaps my dog's behaviour is an extreme outlier.

 

 

 

and recall (he's trotting to his second favourite person who is holding the camera):

Edited March 31, 2014 by KickReturn

[krissn333]

The other thing the OP should consider is the terms of their adoption agreement. I know that both of the groups I've signed agreements with have stipulated that I will not have them off leash unless they're in a fenced in area.

 

I also tend to think that those who are able to do this more reliably are people who have had their greyhounds since they were puppies. Some greyhounds who have raced, there's just no way in hell they will even hear you if they're after something.

[Acadianarose]

A 100% solid, never fail recall is one of the hardest things (I believe) to teach any dog. I trust my lab's recall eventually - he will always come when I call. But there have been times when he has seen something and taken off running before I could call him. He stopped and came back, but if he had been near a road, or something dangerous, he could have gotten hurt.

 

My greyhound - I can't ever see trusting his recall enough to let him off leash. He is too easily distracted by the cat or dog or whatever it is that he may see. I just can't take that chance.

The other thing the OP should consider is the terms of their adoption agreement. I know that both of the groups I've signed agreements with have stipulated that I will not have them off leash unless they're in a fenced in area.

I also tend to think that those who are able to do this more reliably are people who have had their greyhounds since they were puppies. Some greyhounds who have raced, there's just no way in hell they will even hear you if they're after something.

 

This is true - our group has this clause.

[KickReturn]

I also tend to think that those who are able to do this more reliably are people who have had their greyhounds since they were puppies. Some greyhounds who have raced, there's just no way in hell they will even hear you if they're after something.

 

Being raised from puppyhood in a home, in a city might improve the odds. But not so in the case of my Hester. He was not a pet until he was six years old. Raced very hard for 3 years, a determined chaser and still a competitive, energetic dog. He continues to run hard at least twice a week. But he is "sensible" and only runs where there is space and the surface is to his liking. Again I think it comes down to the character of the individual dog more than any other factor.

Edited March 31, 2014 by KickReturn

[JenniferS]

There is no such thing as 100% recall in any dog. I could train until the cows come home, I'm still not letting a greyhound off-leash. They are different than other breeds.

[Guest FijiHound]

I have a broken grey Even if she is chasing something (in Fijis case a mongoose or a bird... or Scruffy my other dog) I can break her focus before I finish calling out her name... The first few times we took her to the beach she was leashed, until we realized we could trust her (this was with recall in a fenced in park). Her recall is amazing, but I think it has a lot to do with having zilch prey drive. She likes to keep checking up on us as well for a pat during her run... so she never gets too far . We tend to use 'come on' to get her to come to us though.

A loud "OI" has her skidding in her tracks and trying to find me

 

Here she is a few years ago