Letting Them Run Free

[CharlieRhea]

I see the pics of Greyhounds running loose at the ocean and wish i could trust that. How many of you allow them off leash without a fenced in area? How did you arrive there?

[krissn333]

Many of the dogs running on beaches are at dog beaches, which I believe are fenced in. It's just a very large area so the fence isn't visible.

 

I would NEVER trust my dogs to NOT be in a fenced in area. EVER.

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Ohhh bad topic to start. I am going to sit back and watch the fireworks...

[BellaBean]

Ohhh bad topic to start. I am going to sit back and watch the fireworks...

Me too.... Break out the popcorn.....

[Neighsayer]

Some people also photo shop out the leashes for a better picture. Others DO let their dogs run free. Most folks who do, have spent a lot of time on recall training with their dogs. It is also more common in the UK than it is in the US.

We all have to make the decision to take/not take a chance with our dogs running free. I am in the not take a chance category, but I love to see the joy in those pictures!

[Roo]

Our first grey had no prey drive and was calm and relaxed and responded to his name and we thought it would be safe. Wrong! As soon as we unclipped the leash, he took off. Luckily he was very people-oriented and stopped at the first couple who wanted to pet him. We learned our lesson and never let another grey off-leash again.

[scullysmum]

Regardless of whether you wish to let your dog run off leash in any area the most important thing you should do is establish a good recall, even if you never intend to let your dog run off leash this training could save his/her life one day.

 

I have owned three greyhounds and one mixed breed dog, they have all been allowed to run off leash in areas that I deem safe, I live in the UK.

[a_daerr]

I'm definitely the minority here because I off-leash one of my dogs. He's been extensively recall-trained, though, and he's also very low-prey. I only allow him off-leash in remote areas (hiking) or on the beach. Nine out of ten times, off-leashing greyhounds is itresponsible and not worth the risk. But if you've done the work, there can be exceptions to the rule.

[llm51807]

Our homeowner's park in our neighborhood in Florida is completely fenced around the beach (seriously, that's why we bought the house). Only way they could escape would be to swim out and around and up to the neighbor's property and even they're both fenced from the water back to the street. We're all rocky and craggily down in the Keys, so no long white sandy beaches. It would be like an escape from Alcatraz and first they'd have to learn to swim Neither of mine have good recall and one is very high prey drive, so I would never let them off leash without a fence. That said, right dog, right training, right place, I wouldn't fault an owner for it.

[macoduck]

If you are prepared to pay medical bills if your dog is injured off leash, if you are prepared to never see your dog again, if you can live with the guilt, then go ahead.

[Sambuca]

My off leash beach pictures are actually on a sand bar. We swam out there and then let him loose. He wasn't going to swim to shore on his own, so we were basically on an island.

[krissy]

I off leash both of my dogs on a regular basis. I do so in places where there is no traffic, generally conservation areas or other secluded hiking trails, though I do also off leash them in parks in town. Both dogs have reliable recalls. I also regularly put down Summit's leash on walks in order to correct Kili's leash manners or to pick up after them. I open my front door without fear. I open car doors without fear. I train in unsecure rings all the time for agility. I really don't worry about it because I stay on top of their training at all times. I accept the small risk that remains owing to ignored recall.

 

My big issue that I take with the whole "oh my goodness, greyhounds can't be let off leash" is that a greyhound is a dog. They are dogs first and greyhounds second. You treat each DOG as an individual and you treat each DOG-owner relationship as unique. Some dogs are not appropriate for off leashing. They are too high prey and can't be recalled off prey, can't be called off a scent, etc. Some dog-owner relationships are not conducive to off leashing. Owners don't spend enough time training and proofing a recall. There is no such thing as no greyhound can ever be off leashed. There IS such a thing as "some greyhounds with some owners can be off leashed" and "some DOGS with some owners can never be off leashed". Kili has a better recall than basically all of her non-greyhound friends.

 

Look at your dog's characteristics. Then look at your own. The majority of dogs shouldn't be off leashed in unfenced areas, regardless of breed, because their owners do not put the proper emphasis on training and proofing their recalls. If your dog can learn a good recall and you can train and proof it regularly then maybe your dog is a candidate for off leashing. And at all times you assume some small risk because no dog is 100% and no owner is 100%. You as the owner determine if the risk benefit ratio is worth it. To me, with my dogs, it is.

[Guest CaityRose]

Would never. My girl doesn't listen to me when she's busy hunting and sniffing and gets spooked way too easily.

[brandimom]

 

Ohhh bad topic to start. I am going to sit back and watch the fireworks...

Me Too! Should be interesting!

[brandimom]

OMG the conversation is over already?????? I do let my 12 1/2 y.o. off leash in the front yard in a cul-de-sac on a 1/2 acre. She does not walk very fast and I could catch her in a heart beat. If I had a younger gh I probably would not let it off the leash. When ever our group adopts out a gh to a new family one of the things we put in their welcome packet is the article "trust is a deadly disease"

Edited March 28, 2014 by brandimom

[FiveRoooooers]

If you have ever helped search for a missing greyhound or three and were unsuccessful in that search, I don't believe you would let your greyhound off-leash in an unsecured area. Heartbreaking.

[Guest MnMDogs]

We've off-leashed previous dogs in the past, away from roads. We never would with the 2 we have now...

Edited March 29, 2014 by MnMDogs

[RedHead]

I off-leash one of my dogs (non-grey). She listens extremely well and would never take off (most of our walks are on remote trails). Teague on the other hand, I would never trust. I don't think he would run away, he would just go after anything he saw and I would never take a chance. I personally don't have a problem with off-leashing the right dog in the right area. Probably not possible with a lot of greys, or if possible, it would take a crazy amount of work.

[Guest Lillypad]

I too have always wondered about the off leash at the beach. Thanks for the explanation about the fencing. Personally, I don't feel 100 percent about recall and if I can't feel 100 percent, it just is not worth the risk for me. However, I am fascinated by some of the recall training, especially Susan Garretts "Brilliant Re-callers"

 

http://www.brilliantrecalls.com/standby_pages/6380

Edited March 29, 2014 by Lillypad

[brianamac]

Hmmm. I know this topic comes up from time to time and people get inflamed over it. However, I always enjoy reading all the different aspects of both arguments... I do think it helps people decide for themselves. There are some people on here who let their dogs off leash, and given their experience and knowledge, I don't question their decisions.

I agree that with the right dog, combined with the right owner, lots of diligence in training AND the right location, it isn't a "never" thing for some people. But how often do all those factors intersect into the perfect storm? Not too often. I will say that my group has had a few lost and found calls from people who thought their dogs were different. Or their situation was different. And it wasn't. Everyone likes to think their situation and dog are 'different'.

I think you need to not only be confident in all of those factors, but also have the ($$) budget and strength of conscience to believe that in the event something bad happened, your dog truly had a better life because of the risks you chose to take.

Personally, I just don't find it worth it. Even if I felt great about my dogs recall, I know I would worry the entire time they were running loose about the possibilities of what could happen. I'm an anxiety-ridden worry-wort.

The closest fenced area I feel comfortable letting my dogs off leash in is a 30 minute drive away, so we only get there once a week (and only in the summer). But I would rather have a worry-free experience that I enjoy, too.

Off leash simply isn't within my comfort zone.

Edited March 29, 2014 by brianamac

[krissy]

If you have ever helped search for a missing greyhound or three and were unsuccessful in that search, I don't believe you would let your greyhound off-leash in an unsecured area. Heartbreaking.

This argument is like the argument people give me when I say I don't want kids "you'll like your own kids". Why is it the same? Because it is incomplete and makes no sense.

 

This would be a great argument if the only way people lost their greyhounds was by intentionally off leashing them. But I would argue from reading the Amber Alert page that that is not how the majority of dogs go missing. They slip collars, gates get left open, they dart out open front doors.

 

The argument that makes perfect sense and that SHOULD be quipped over and over is:

 

If you have ever helped search for a lost greyhound and not found it you would recall train your dog.

 

And yet... oddly this is not the case. The majority of dog owners (breed aside) do not sufficiently work on recall. Unintentionally off leashing your dog has absolutely nothing to do with a dog that darts out an open door, spooks and backs out of a collar, or leaves out an open gate. Training your dog absolutely corrects the door dash, can help with a scared dog (if you sufficiently proof and drill the recall), will help if you actually see your dog headed out the gate, and may help you recover a lost hound who actually will recall to it's name. It is also less likely that a dog who gets regular freedom and regular recall practice is going to just say "see ya later!" without a reason (squirrels are good reasons). Whether you choose to intentionally off leash at that point is completely up to the individual owners and their comfort levels, but is nearly irrelevant to the lost dog argument.

 

THIS is the logical argument

[FiveRoooooers]

Sigh ... forgive my shorthand. A loose dog, any dog, often does not come home, that is the reality. When a caregiver intentionally lets their dog loose/off-leash, even with proper training, all the powers that be can align and it will be the one time that the dog does not respond to what it has learned. *For me* it is not worth the risk. My dogs go to classes, I am fortunate to have a fenced yard for their turn-out, we have a "relationship." But I would never let them off-leash. There is a pinned topic here about Trust. It's a good reminder. People simply have to decide for themselves what risks they are comfortable taking.

 

 

[krissy]

Sigh ... forgive my shorthand. A loose dog, any dog, often does not come home, that is the reality. When a caregiver intentionally lets their dog loose/off-leash, even with proper training, all the powers that be can align and it will be the one time that the dog does not respond to what it has learned. *For me* it is not worth the risk. My dogs go to classes, I am fortunate to have a fenced yard for their turn-out, we have a "relationship." But I would never let them off-leash. There is a pinned topic here about Trust. It's a good reminder. People simply have to decide for themselves what risks they are comfortable taking.

 

Precisely. Those of us who regularly understand the risk and accept the risk for the benefit. I couldn't do agility if I didn't off leash my dogs ever. People on here lure course... can't lure course in a fully enclosed area in most cases.

 

It is not that I trust my dogs implicitly. I trust their training to the degree in which that is reasonable and understand that it could fail.

 

We all take risks every day in order to benefit our lives. I watched a woman roll her SUV last Christmas. We stopped and rushed to help her, her daughter, and their dog to get out of the vehicle and called an ambulance. Fortunately they were unhurt. But if they had been, I wouldn't say "if you saw a car roll and everyone was dead in it, you wouldn't drive again". What you WOULD do is drive more carefully, but the risk would still exist.

 

My point is, this epidemic in the greyhound world is completely wrong. We flame people for putting in the training to safely off leash their dogs. But we don't flame people who didn't provide their dog any training and had a "close call" with an open door or dropped leash. Backwards. You can train your dog to be off leashable and CHOOSE NOT TO. As you said, we all have a comfort level. But in my opinion, it is not stupid and irresponsible to train your dog to be off leash and accept those risks. It IS irresponsible to not train your dog because you will never off leash it, and accept THOSE RISKS... the risk of a slipped collar, open door, open gate, broken leash. (And for those who choose not to off leash but have a dog trained enough to do it safely, kudos on providing your dog with safety and not a false sense of security.)

 

ETA: I am not trying to be overly argumentative. But it does baffle me how the retired racing community thinks this is the solution. People had dog training all wrong 20 years ago and now we know that positive reinforcement is the way to do it. One day I hope the greyhound community will start to get it right too. It doesn't happen without talking about it though so I hope everyone will keep this lively but cordial.

 

ETA: also, to clarify, it is not my opinion that all greyhounds or most greyhound ad should be off leashed. Completely the opposite. Most dog owners of any breed will not put in the effort required to off leash and should keep their pets safely contained. My problem is with this blanket statement that makes greyhounds sound like they are special or different or untrainable and therefore we shouldn't bother to train and just keep them on a leash. I'm simply here to suggest that IF someone were inclined to put in the effort as some of us here have... it may be achievable. And to suggest that maybe we should put in at least SOME effort even if we do not put in as much as is necessary to off leash.

Edited March 29, 2014 by krissy

[Charlies_Dad]

I think the pictures of loose pups enjoying themselves are incredible and wish we could do the same but that is not something WE choose to do. The reason is, we have never trained Stewie for recall so we have failed him in that regard so he stays on a leash. Would we like to see him enjoying the beach and running with other pups, yes but it's not worth the risk for us and Stewie. Those that have trained recall and have pups that come back is awesome I think, do they take a chance, yes as not every dog is 100% guaranteed to recall in every situation but if you put the odds in your favour by only doing it where there is no traffic and little chance of losing your pup as the 'area' you're in is somehow contained, then worse case is you'll be looking for your pup for a while. Again it comes down to having a pup thoroughly trained with recall, the confidence to get your dog back at all times and taking them to a location that is as safe as possible.

 

I would not recommend a loose Grey to most owners though, there is too much chance of losing your pup and as Jan stated, it is heartbreaking beyond words if you never get your pup back.

[macoduck]

Krissy, I understand your point. As to your analogy about not driving after a car wreck. I get that. I practice recall training with my dogs. What I can't get out of my head are the broken bodies of lost greyhounds that I've had to search for. The incidents were, I'd say, 40% off leash, 60% accidental escape.

None of those were my dogs. What I saw pained me to the core of my soul.

I'll keep practicing recall, but I will never trust it to work. Maybe I'm setting up myself for failure, but I don't want to test that with my dog's life.