Adopting Another Dog To Help With Sa?

[Acadianarose]

My daughter has had her greyhound for 5 months and his SA is not getting any better. They literally cannot walk out of a room without him getting up and following. She has done alone training with for the past few weeks but it has not really helped yet (I know it can take a while). Her vet recommended antidepressants but she doesn’t really want to go that route if she can help it.

 

The adoption group is suggesting that she adopt another greyhound. Before she considers that, has anyone adopted another dog simply because of SA? Does another dog make that much difference?

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

Does the hound exhibit any other anxious issues, such as inappropriate chewing when left alone, or elimination when left alone, or howling, etc.? Just because a hound is a Velcro dog, I don't think that's a huge issue. My hounds don't have any anxiety but when my wife or I am home, they will move from room to room with us around the house.

[a_daerr]

Ehh... there are a lot of opinions on this one. Here's my two cents... 99% of the time, it's never a good idea to adopt another dog purely to solve behavioral problems in the first one. An adoption group is going to give advice based on their own agenda- they want to unload more dogs. But getting another dog is a HUGE decision in terms of time, expense, training, etc. Is that something your daughter wants? And it also begs the question, what if that dog has behavior problems? I've seen instances where people brought in a second dog to "fix" the first dog's SA. After a few months, that dog also developed SA, and the whole situation turned into a holy mess. Both dogs just ended up exacerbating each others' anxiety. Another thing is, what if down the line, there comes a situation when the two dogs need to be separated? What if, god forbid, one of them dies? IMHO, adding a second dog doesn't solve the problem- it just puts a band-aid on it.

 

I would definitely try medication first. There are meds like Clomicalm that are specifically designed to help with SA. And nothing against your daughter, Linda, because I'm sure she's a perfectly decent individual and she's just trying to do right by her dog. But I've never understood why there is such a stigma against anti-anxiety meds. Just because it's a psychological issue, doesn't make it any less real.

[Sambuca]

I have a dog that won't let me leave his sight in the house. He does not like if he's locked away from me while I'm home, but is fine if I leave the house. What happens when they leave the dog completely home alone?

[Houndtime]

I had a dog that was my shadow but was perfectly fine when home without me. That being said, she was with two other dogs, but, when I was home she had only eyes for me. Our first dog has SA, and all of the issues stopped when we brought home the second grey. It is not a given that if they get another dog everything will be fine, but, usually it does the trick.

[Acadianarose]

Does the hound exhibit any other anxious issues, such as inappropriate chewing when left alone, or elimination when left alone, or howling, etc.? Just because a hound is a Velcro dog, I don't think that's a huge issue. My hounds don't have any anxiety but when my wife or I am home, they will move from room to room with us around the house.

He cries the every few minutes the whole time he is alone. She is gone about 4 hours and then has a break and comes home for a couple of hours and then leaves again for a couple of hours. He is in his crate and she has tried to leave out but it is much worse.

 

Ehh... there are a lot of opinions on this one. Here's my two cents... 99% of the time, it's never a good idea to adopt another dog purely to solve behavioral problems in the first one. An adoption group is going to give advice based on their own agenda- they want to unload more dogs. But getting another dog is a HUGE decision in terms of time, expense, training, etc. Is that something your daughter wants? And it also begs the question, what if that dog has behavior problems? I've seen instances where people brought in a second dog to "fix" the first dog's SA. After a few months, that dog also developed SA, and the whole situation turned into a holy mess. Both dogs just ended up exacerbating each others' anxiety. Another thing is, what if down the line, there comes a situation when the two dogs need to be separated? What if, god forbid, one of them dies? IMHO, adding a second dog doesn't solve the problem- it just puts a band-aid on it.

 

I would definitely try medication first. There are meds like Clomicalm that are specifically designed to help with SA. And nothing against your daughter, Linda, because I'm sure she's a perfectly decent individual and she's just trying to do right by her dog. But I've never understood why there is such a stigma against anti-anxiety meds. Just because it's a psychological issue, doesn't make it any less real.

 

Two dogs is a huge deal for them – two dogs to walk, two dogs to feed, another pet deposit, two vet bills. And she is in grad school. They plan on getting another greyhound when they have a house – not now. But she wants to do what will help her dog the most.

 

Alicia – she is not opposed to medicine. She has a psychology degree and working on her masters so she is always trying to fix the underlying problem.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Acadianarose

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

More alone training. She should be sure to realize when the whining starts, that means the threshold has been crossed and she needs to back up the amount of time she is gone. There are other things as well, such as a kong filled with treats when she leaves, leaving a radio or the TV on when she is gone. Tell her to change her routine before she leaves, most hounds quickly realize the queues and start to get stressed when they see them. There are natural remedies as well, oils and such (lavender I think is one) that will calm the hound. Lastly she should take the hound out for a brisk walk/run to tire the hound out before she leaves, this will help as well.

[Acadianarose]

More alone training. She should be sure to realize when the whining starts, that means the threshold has been crossed and she needs to back up the amount of time she is gone. There are other things as well, such as a kong filled with treats when she leaves, leaving a radio or the TV on when she is gone. Tell her to change her routine before she leaves, most hounds quickly realize the queues and start to get stressed when they see them. There are natural remedies as well, oils and such (lavender I think is one) that will calm the hound. Lastly she should take the hound out for a brisk walk/run to tire the hound out before she leaves, this will help as well.

 

She does this. Here is a topic she started a few weeks ago.

 

http://forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/303613-help-please-separation-anxiety-in-charlie/?hl=charlie

[kikibean]

A second dog may very well help the SA, but I don't think anyone should adopt a second unless they really want a second dog. It may not help. Is fostering an option?

 

Medication can sometimes be used short term. A lot of times it helps put the dog in a frame of mind where they can focus on the training that's being done instead of focusing on their anxiety. She may be able to wean him off the meds once she has success with the alone training.

 

I also agree with a peanut butter kong, radio or tv left on, crate in an area where he normally spends time and exercise.

[NeylasMom]

Here's the main issue - some dog's simply need another dog, SA cured, end of story. With my dogs this was never the case, but I have seen it with foster dogs in my group when I was the foster coordinator. For other dogs, there's some other easy fix. For Violet, it took me a heck of a long time to realize it (and a lot of "wasted" energy and unhappiness on Violet's part as we worked diligently through alone training, tried medication, etc), but she just needed to be uncrated so she could come to the door to check for me or watch me go if she wanted. For other's, the only solution is alone training and that means most likely the dog will require medication or a place where he can go and have company while the owner has to go to work in the meantime (so doggie daycamp, a friend who is home and will dog sit, etc.).

The problem wtih the group's blanket recommendation is that they (I presume) have no idea if a second dog will fix this problem. And if it doesn't, woa, bad decision. However, if it would fix the situation and your daughter is willing to consider it, then it's worth exploring. I'm honestly of the mind, and some may find this harsh that if the dog's SA can be fixed with the presence of another dog and the owner isn't able or willing to adopt the second dog, then that's of course totally fine but the owner should consider returning the dog to the group to be rehomed with a pack and find a dog that is more appropriate as an only. I understand not everyone will want to do that, and there are other factors like how long the dog has been with them, if there's the support of a group to return to, etc., but I err to the side of it's not fair to medicate a dog and put him through the paces of alone training if he could be happy in a home with other hounds.

But that's all a bit of a digression. Point being, if your daughter would consider the second dog, I suggest they try foster-sitting or sitting for another adopter. Set up a webcam, see what her own dog does. If it's problem solved, then she'll at least have that key piece of info. If it doesn't solve the issue, then she'll feel more confident about her decision to use medication. Although I have to say, if the dog is just vocal, but not showing other signs of distress like urinating, defecating, destroying things I'm not sure it's necessarily a situation that warrants medication.

[a_daerr]

I hope I didn't sound like a jerk. I have an anxiety disorder myself, and I get bent out of shape when psychotropic meds get a bad wrap. I think a lot of dog owners think that if they try meds, that means they've failed as a trainer. Definitely not the case if it helps the dog in the long run.

[Acadianarose]

It just seems that adopting another dog to help with SA could really backfire. She has an uncle who also has a greyhound who is coming to visit soon. She is going see how he reacts being alone with the other greyhound. He stayed here with Payton, but he was uncomfortable away from his own home. I also suggested that she try fostering and see if that helps.

 

All in all, she is not opposed to the medication, but wants to ultimately help him get over his SA and she is willing to adopt another dog is that is the answer.

[greysmom]

The underlying problem is that greyhounds have never lived alone until they are adopted as an only dog. This is why it is often suggested to get another greyhound (or other breed of dog). It *can* help. But you should never get another dog in a situation like this unless you really want one. I have seen it work out. But I've also seen it result in both dogs being returned.

 

If a bit of crying is the only issue he is having, this seems quite treatable. A "bad" case of separation anxiety would involve peeing and/or pooping in his crate, wild howling the entire time they are gone, becoming so frantic he hurts himself trying to get out of the crate, chewing doors/walls/moulding/blinds when left alone, or other destructive or noisy behaviors.

 

As has been pointed out, it is also an option to return a dog to a (responsible) group so it can be rehomed into a situation he feels more comfortable in. There are dogs that do just fine as only dogs, but some dogs just do not. Most people don't want to consider this option because they've bonded with their dog, and think it's cruel to do so. I would say that it may be not the best thing to keep a dog where they obviously are unhappy. Though if your daughter is willing to do a bit of work, this will probably work out, as her dog's SA sounds like a relatively light case.

 

1) She needs to make sure her dog gets a good, exhausting walk in the morning before she leaves, and again in the afternoon before she leaves.

2) Continue being diligent about alone training when she is home on weekends.

3) Give the dog something safe to hold his attention in his crate - frozen peanut butter Kongs are popular.

4) Leave a radio or tv on in the room where he is.

 

If she has given all these things a good trial, then it *may* be time to try some anti-anxiety remedies. There are several natural things she can try first: a DAP diffuser or collar; lavendar essential oil either rubbed on his ears or diffused in the room; Rescue Remedy (make sure it's the animal-safe alcohol free version); some people have had good results with various stress-relieving chews and tablets.

 

If she wants to try a prescription, most vets will begin with Clomicalm, as that is a drug specifically created for canine use. But as she will know, as with humans, anti-anxiety meds don't work the same in all dogs. She may need to try several different rxs to find the one that works best for her dog. Also, most of these drugs take several weeks to build up a clinically effective dose in the bloodstream. Sometimes, a faster acting drug such as xanax or trazadone is used in conjunction with an SSRI or benzodiazapine until those longer-lasting drugs take full effect.

 

A prescritpion is not a miracle cure. Drugs only put the dog's brain in a state where it is receptive to counter-conditioning training. She will still need to continue alone training during this time. Most dogs do not need to be on anti-anxiety meds for their lifetime - a course of 6-8 months can give the dog a chance to become used to it's new situation.

[Acadianarose]

I hope I didn't sound like a jerk. I have an anxiety disorder myself, and I get bent out of shape when psychotropic meds get a bad wrap. I think a lot of dog owners think that if they try meds, that means they've failed as a trainer. Definitely not the case if it helps the dog in the long run.

 

No, Alicia, of course not. I also have anxiety that I have to take medication for and I understand that people do attach a stigma to those types of issues. No worries

[Guest psdirector]

We adopted Hutch and Tibbs together - they are litter mates. Hutch is way more "wired" than his brother and had terrible separation anxiety at first. A dog walker who takes them on a 30-minute walk every weekday has helped, but he still whines constantly if I am home but out of sight. His brother's presence may or may not have helped (meaning for all we know he might have been much worse without Tibbs), but he is who he is - and he is, overall, more antsy, more concerned about things and much more likely to complain or cause a problem. Tibbs totally goes with the flow about everything except dinner time. Lol!

[GeorgeofNE]

Honestly? Stop coming home half way through the day! He has to deal with her leaving 2x more than he needs to!

 

5 months is not a long time.

 

I would suggest more time and patience, up the exercise, try the DAP diffuser if she isn't already, and video him to see what he's really doing.

 

I've had my dog for over 6 years. He follows me from room to room, and so did my last dog. I don't consider that SA.

[Batmom]

Is the dog 100% alone when she leaves, or is someone else there?

[Acadianarose]

She has a huge gap before classes – she can’t just sit in a parking lot. She did video him. He whines for a few minutes every few minutes. I don’t necessarily consider a dog following you around separation anxiety either. I was using that as an example of how attached he is to them.

 

Her fiancé works 12 hour shifts so he is home at times, but I believe Charlie is okay if he is not alone. I don’t think they crate him if her fiance is home (and sleeping) but I am not 100% sure on that.

[Brandiandwe]

We got Paige to help with Brandi's SA. It worked, and Brandi is much more confident now. So it can work out. BUT we got the dog who was right for Brandi, and not necessarily the dog who was right for us. Paige is my heart dog but she is more work and has more issues than our others. It's hard with her, and its been a long road. She can never be rehomed, she can't stay with friends, she's not ideal, except that she's the dog Boo needed. And apparently I'm the human she needed. So I'd say, approach with caution.

[krissn333]

I would absolutely recommend trying a DAP collar.

 

It doesn't sound like he is really bad...whining a little bit isn't a big deal to me So that means that there is a good chance that with time, patience, and maybe a little bit of chemical help (I would start with the DAP collar and put a DAP diffuser in the room he hangs out in most to begin with and see if that helps before moving on to even things like Rescue Remedy and then actual meds).

[Acadianarose]

Our adoption group is small so they get to know us and the dogs well. They have a lot of experience so I generally take their advice. But I am not sure that adopting another dog is the best idea for my daughter right now.

 

Some whining is not a huge deal. I know it could be much worse. She just hates to see him so miserable. And I am sure the neighbors in her apartment are tired of him whining.

 

I really appreciate everyone's advice. She is going to continue with the alone training and try the DAP or rescue remedy. Thanks so much!

[NeylasMom]

I would recommend trying DAP long before Rescue Remedy. And I highly recommend the DAP collars over the diffuser. More cost effective and delivered more directly to the dog regardless of where he is - Entirely Pets sells them, as does Amazon. The small size fits Zuri's (and I would imagine any greyhound's) neck so you can save a few bucks that way.

If the DAP doesn't work, my next choice would be to try Anxitane. It's just the dog marketed version of l-theanine so if you can find the appropriate dosage in human capsules w/o additives that's the cheaper way to go. Violet is currently taking it, 100 mg 2x/day (which is on the high side for her weight) and we just buy it from Amazon.

[Acadianarose]

I would recommend trying DAP long before Rescue Remedy. And I highly recommend the DAP collars over the diffuser. More cost effective and delivered more directly to the dog regardless of where he is - Entirely Pets sells them, as does Amazon. The small size fits Zuri's (and I would imagine any greyhound's) neck so you can save a few bucks that way.

If the DAP doesn't work, my next choice would be to try Anxitane. It's just the dog marketed version of l-theanine so if you can find the appropriate dosage in human capsules w/o additives that's the cheaper way to go. Violet is currently taking it, 100 mg 2x/day (which is on the high side for her weight) and we just buy it from Amazon.

Thank you very much! I will let her know.

[Guest DeniseL]

Just my two cents....putting Miami on Prozac was the best thing we ever did for him. I didn't like the idea at first, but it was either that, or return him with the stigma of 'biter'. His fears have all but disappeared and his is a happy healthy hound and my baby.

 

Of course, it's a totally different situation, but like I said, I was unsure at first, but now, I'm so happy I did it. I wouldn't hesitate to put another hound on meds if it would help them in any way...

[Guest KennelMom]

A second dog/greyhound helps some greyhounds with SA. For others, the SA is about being away from *people* and it wouldn't matter how many hounds they were left with. We've had both over the years!