I Brought His Biggest Fear Into His Safe House

[XTRAWLD]

Since the day we got Ryder, he exhibited signs of stress and anxiety when hearing loud sounds on walks. In particular he was (and still is) deathly afraid of roofers. Those roofers have air compressed nail guns. Strong pulling just trying to get home, or run away from the sound as fast and as far as he possibly could. I won't get in depth into my work trying to condition him (it did involve long walks, flooding, lots of exposure, obedience training, high value treats, etc.), but I have made the attempt and we have made some strides. He calms down pretty much instantly once we walk in the door at home. It's his safe place from that bad world out there.

 

We have an air compressor in the garage that is mostly used for putting air in tires. Every spring and winter when it's time to change the tires over for the seasons, we use it. Well Ryder completely shuts down at home at the sound of the compressor running in the garage. This winter, a new thing started now, when hubby would just be in the garage working - and NOT using the air compressor. He's beginning to associate work in the garage with that loud scary (and vibration) sound now. Distraction in the basement or in other rooms in the house away from the garage doesn't work. It takes him about an hour to get back to his normal state. Honestly, even taking him for a walk around the block before the compressor starts up - he's already suspecting something the little bugger, and is tentative when we return too.

 

As a Christmas gift to us, I bought an espresso machine. We wanted one ever since our trip to Italy in April, and finally found one and go a great deal. Guess what sound it makes? Wuuuuuuur chic chic chic.......spuuuuooooosssssss. Sigh, there goes Ryder running for the hills. Shaking, panting, nose dripping, no eye contact, no response to commands to come/lay/sit etc., not accepting any treats or food. Really, a complete melt down, the whole nine yards. Once the espresso/cappuccino/latte making is over (and what a great cup it is) it takes him at times up to 2 hours to get back to normal. He's starting to worry now if I leave his sight and head for the kitchen where that bad bad espresso machine is! This actually isn't the first reaction to something in the kitchen. He oddly even FREAKS out when we open the freezer door! That trigger is actually the sound of frozen bags squishing around. (Yeah, I don't get it either - it's FOOD - his most favorite thing!).

 

I've been thinking about getting him a thundershirt, but I really don't know if it will help. If I get him one, do I put it on him before making the coffee? Wouldn't he then associate the shirt with the trigger? So far we have tried without success:

• putting a sweater on him before starting it up, and not making a big deal over it when it's warming and the art of making the java,
• put him in the bedroom with hubby and Kasey (Kasey has ZERO reaction to all of this hub bub), all sleepy comfy cozy dark room,
• kept him in the kitchen on his own account, and he actually laid down on the mat at the sink (very close to the machine) but he pants and shakes like he could agitate a paint can
• kept him in the kitchen "forcefully", with hubby sitting in a chair at the kitchen table and keeping him close and "secure" - perhaps reinforcing the behaviour but we had to try
• left him alone to wander the house, he doesn't lay down on this bed, but will find the furthest corner and stand shaking and panting (this once resulted in a poop accident as well) - we're literally scaring the %^#* outta him.

I love my dog, this situation is frustrating, I feel bad and guilty about all of this. I'm not giving up the machine and I'm not giving up on my dog. He will have to learn how to adapt, but I will have to learn how to condition him. I'm asking for suggestions. We can't take him out of the house for a walk (we don't have a yard so I can't simply just put him outside and away from the sound) every time we want to make a coffee (this is the easiest solution). To be honest, we are thinking about purposely running this machine every day so he gets used to it, and hopefully every day it will take him less and less time to get back to normal. This sounds like a rough road, so I want to make it as easy on him as possible, but I don't want to drug the poor thing. I'm at a loss for the next approach.

 

**EDIT - maybe this should be moved to Training? I'm really concerned for his health so I put it here first. Please move thread as necessary.

Edited December 13, 2013 by XTRAWLD

[KF_in_Georgia]

Thunder shirts: put them on him for a while (30 minutes or so) when he isn't going to hear scary noises. Take it off. A few hours later, back on for 30 minutes. Then off. Next day, on for a few minutes--and make your espresso. You want the thunder shirt to be a "hug" for him--but one that isn't linked to the espresso machine, so vary how long the shirt is on him before you crank up the noise-makers. You can start leaving the shirt on him for longer when he's comfortable with it.

 

And one silly thing you might try: cotton in his ears long enough to make your drink. Sounds ridiculous, but it will change the pitch of what he hears. (In the days when I was a dog groomer, I had to do this to a dog--and myself--when we had a broken fire alarm and were waiting for the fire department to come reset it. Longest twenty minutes of my life.)

 

And talk to your vet. The vet may recommend clomipramine (Clomicalm) or something along those lines. It wouldn't make him groggy or zonked; the idea is that it just takes the edge off the stress long enough for the dog to realize he's not actually, truly, honest-to-goodness dying from a noise. At least you have the advantage of having mostly controllable triggers--unlike folks with thunderphobic dogs.

[Batmom]

I'd skip the shirt and work out how to condition him to the noise of the machine, one step at a time (seeing machine alone as in not running, seeing machine while it makes first noise and then is shut off, first two noises, etc.). Can take awhile but works with most things.

[Guest Dancer]

This isn't dog related, but is latte machine related...I love lattes and making the perfect latte so never really noticed how loud they are. My kids still talk (10+ years) about being woken up every morning by the sound of me making a latte. Now that they are living on their own...the sound and smell of lattes has a certain nostalgia...

 

Not sure how to get Ryder to be okay with the sound of lattes - other than the suggestions above. Seems a overkill to have someone walk your dog so you can make a latte.

[philospher77]

You do want to work on counter-conditioning him to the noise (which may be easier said than done, if you can't start/stop the machine). If it's got to keep running until it's done, then you will need to start at a distance where he can hear the machine, but is not shut down. If that means outside the house, that means you are outside the house when you start this. Have someone turn the machine on when he is at that distance, and start feeding him yummy treats. The idea is that you want to get to a point where he hears the sound and immediately looks to you because he has learned that it means that manna is going to rain down from heaven. Then you move a little closer, and repeat it all again. You don't way to see any signs of stress while you are doing this. And at some point, you want him to be calm enough that he can do other things (shake, down, something like that) for you while the sound is being made.

 

Tis also sounds like a dog that might benefit from some anti-anxiety drugs, at least in the short run. The problem with flooding, and just trying to habituate him to the sound, is that the brain shuts down when it is stressed. So learning is very difficult, if not impossible. So, by forcefully holding him in the kitchen while the machine runs, all he is doing is learning that the sound makes him feel very stressed and scared, so that the next time he hears it, he has had practice at being stressed and scared and is going to be that much worse. The drugs may help take the edge off enough so that he can start thinking "hm… hissing sounds mean chicken… that's not a bad thing!" The big drugs (SSRIs, TCAs, etc) will take several weeks to reach their full effectiveness. You might be able to start off with something like Valium, which has an immediate effect, give that to him a couple of hours before you want to try counter-conditioning, and see if it makes it easier. You will still need to start at a distance, etc., but if it takes the edge off, things may go faster.

 

There are a couple of resources I have found helpful for advice for dealing with a shy or scared dog: http://fearfuldogs.com and

 

Good luck!

 

edited for spelling and grammar

Edited December 13, 2013 by philospher77

[XTRAWLD]

Thanks! I know you've had plenty of experience with Katie!

[XTRAWLD]

Just bought it and put it on.....doesn't he look impressed!

 

[TINMANPDX]

No input here, just want to say he looks cute in his thunder shirt - hope it works.

[BatterseaBrindl]

[zoesmommy]

Hey there-Hi there,

Let's be friends!

Here's my situation, story, and what was prescribed to me by a professional trainer who worked with Greys for a long time.

 

 

We have the EXACT same problem except my grey is afraid of kids. My husband and I don't have any. It is not so much the kids that she is afraid of but the scooters, bikes, balls, and high pitched yelling/screaming that kids do when they play---you know--just being kids.

 

She'll tolerate the kids petting her but shakes violently and danders. She never shows any anger or violence but has kind of a "just quit it" or "go away" look about her. She doesn't does not "love up" on children the way she does others. She tolerates them and shakes violently, nose dripping, swallowing, etc. She loooooves everyone else. Usually likes "older kids" about 12 and above.

 

She displays all the exact same symptoms as your dog. The problem is where our back yard ends is a wall that is about 6 feet. There is about 150 feet of golf course and then our subdivision decided to build a gazebo/garden area and a CHILDRENS' play area/sand box for our subdivision!

 

The dog has done nothing but flip out! She won't eat in the morning if she hears them outside. When she goes outside in the yard you must stay with her and insist she goes "pee-pee" or "poopy". If she doesn't you feel like you're torturing her making her stay out there until she does---BUT--you know she has to go---she can't not go all day. You feel guilty watching her panic and scratch at the sliding glass doors (our back yard lets out onto the patio).

 

She started peeing on the rug. SHE NEVER peed in the house before (2 x's when she had kidney/renal problem) in 3 years! She always had a dog door or "told" my husband and I. We started crating her. We never let her out of our sight. If busy she got crated.

 

She no longer wanted to go for walks or pulled like a maniac in the opposite direction from the children. She was eating my plants and then threw up on my carpet.

She kept peeing on my carpet.

I had it steamed cleaned 3 times (my rug is brand new!) in 2 months

She was becoming a pain in the ass.

We weren't amused any more.

She was becoming more aggravation than she was worth.

We talked about giving her back to the greyhound agency we got her from.

 

We love her but could not revolve our life around a dog we could never leave alone/had to baby sit constantly, could not trust in the house, was ruining our carpet, costing us money, and eventually going to get sick from eating something she shouldn't. She was a nervous wreck and no fun.

 

I finally found a trainer that worked with Grey that gave me some fabulous advice! For free out of the kindness of her heart.

 

It was: You have to be cruel to be kind! DON'T BABY THEM! (hard to do when you see them

panic/in distress. It's our nature to comfort---don't! They must "grow up".)

 

They have nothing to fear but fear it's self!

It is like when you were growing up. Remember those scary shadows on the wall in your room at night? They were the monster coming to get you, right? Nope. They were just shadows of tree branches from your window reflecting on your bedroom wall. That's it. No strange, mythical, "evil" power coming to torment/punish you.

Same with the dog. The Espresso machines and nail guns and roofers are just that. Kids are just kids. Balls and bikes and scooters are exactly what they are. EXPOSURE is the key. See, hear, feel, etc. The more they hear/see the roofers and Espresso machine the dog gets a grip that is exactly what it is. Nothing special that is going to harm me in my home or out of my home. Big whoop it just makes a lot of noise. Sometimes it is here sometimes it is not.

 

Same thing with my dog. Kids are just noisy little people who at times are capable of being quite nice, calm and gentle and like dogs. Bikes, scooters, balls move and sometimes they don't. They're not "alive". They don't "smell" like another animal. They won't hurt you.

 

:beatheartAPPROXIMATION

 

 

Your dog will dart and dash away. Pull and tug you down the street. It will run in circles and panic. BUT even if you have to grab it by the collar and "force walk" (try not to drag/yank) it to where you want it-- do so. When it "moves" a little better give it a little more leash and a TREAT and PRAISE, PRAISE PRAISE!!! If it starts acting stupid again go back to "collar walk". Every time better---treat/Praise.

 

When it is near/around/by scary object sound IGNORE THE DOG! (That's for you if you don't listen--- not the dog)

Don't hold/comfort/pet the dog. Just stand/sit with the dog and let it be . It will be a nervous wreck but every time it acts calmer treat/praise. (If it wants to run away shorten leash/collar hold BUT ignore the dog--not petting, calming, comforting, etc.)

 

Take about 15 minutes EVERY DAY to do this!

 

 

This is lots and lots of work! It will take lots and lots of time . Improvement is very, very slow. Did I say very slow? It is very slow. But if you want a dog that :wife2doesn't flip out constantly you have to be very, very diligent in doing this. Remember, your brain (supposedly) is bigger than the dog's. YOU have to make the dog understand there is nothing to be afraid of. If you don't spend the time doing it you can't get the rewards out of it.

 

Zoe and I have worked 4 weeks. It has gone to where I now only have to collar walk her 2/3rds of the way down the street instead of the whole way. The other 1/3 she actually gets some real leash! She will shake when bicycles go past but will not cower any more.

 

She has stopped peeing on my rug (although I do keep a somewhat close eye on her) and have moved the plants. She still panics in the yard when she hears the kids but if I make her stay out long enough will go to the bathroom without my "yelling" at her to do it.

 

She now just stands at the sliding glass door rather than pawing at it. In the morning and afternoons she does her statue thing and listens attentively. When she does not hear the kids she does enjoy being in the back yard.

 

YES This IS progress So don't you ever feel hopeless you just keep working, working, working. You'll get there.

[cleptogrey]

I'd skip the shirt and work out how to condition him to the noise of the machine, one step at a time (seeing machine alone as in not running, seeing machine while it makes first noise and then is shut off, first two noises, etc.). Can take awhile but works with most things.

drink your espresso/cappuccino and feed him high value treats.

eventually....

prep for making your espresso-take out treats as you get the pods, cup, sugar etc out, pour the water into the machine and let it heat up, if he is around give him the treats

take a break, walk to him if he has left and give him high value treats- just a morsel

make your espresso

when you drink your espresso again treat him

 

he will eventually associate the smell of coffee w/ treats. make sure they are stinky treats so his olfactory sense will go ballistic(in a positive way) w/ both the coffee and treat smell. i picked up a large cheap box of american made jerky treats at costco. the dogs smell them as soon as i open the bin.( _{i use the treats for felix's nail cutting- a morsel at a time while he lies on his bed and doesn't snarl and me. but only when he is quiet and his head is down on the floor}.)

crumble the treats, they are pretty rich. only use the stinky treats when it's coffee time.

 

btw, this will not happen over night. and which machine did you get? my kids have the lavazza, i love it and go ballistic every time i visit and load up on caffeine!

Edited December 16, 2013 by cleptogrey

[zoesmommy]

Yikes!

Not so sure I agree with that one!

DO NOT want the dog to think it is getting fed every time you have coffee.

The idea is to make the dog unafraid of the coffee maker when you make coffee and reward the "good" behavior for not freaking out and "learning" to ignoring the machine (eventually he will completely).

The concept is to teach the dog that coffee makers are "normal" and they are like "boogey men" the fear of them is unrealistic and should not exist.

The coffee maker is as normal as the radio or TV. They are not to react to it. It is just part of the house.

 

 

The treats should ONLY be given while the dog is "learning" the machine is nothing to be afraid of and starts behaving appropriately or demonstrating the approximate correct behavior.

That good behavior gets rewards.

Once the "normal" behavior is accomplished you do not "treat" the dog for not reacting to the coffee maker any more than you would for not freaking out when you turn on your TV or stereo.

You react to the dog's "good" behavior and lack of freak out episodes for what it is supposed to be: "Normal"

 

You no longer "bribe" your dog with treats to GET IT to go outside and act right and use the yard why "bribe" the dog to act right when the coffee maker comes out?

When the dog is learning to go potty outside and does what it is supposed to ( act normal)--you reward it.

Same with the coffee maker.

When it has mastered the task of going outside (acting normal) do you give it a treat every single time, all day long, every day, all month, all year?

 

Same with the coffee maker.

The coffee maker is now "normal".

The dogs reaction to it is now normal

It does not deserve treats for being "normal"

 

.

The learning/knowing/understanding the coffee maker and getting a treat for it phase is over.

Just like potty training.

 

 

I would be leery of treating your dog every time you whip out the machine and make your self Espresso. When he smells your coffee it is not a cue for him to have water and a biscotti with you. He'll constantly beg and be a nuisance. God forbid you have coffee and donuts in the morning---or worse yet---breakfast in bed!

 

Good luck in your quest.

I'm rooting for you---and your coffee

[NeylasMom]

Yikes!

Not so sure I agree with that one!

DO NOT want the dog to think it is getting fed every time you have coffee.

The idea is to make the dog unafraid of the coffee maker when you make coffee and reward the "good" behavior for not freaking out and "learning" to ignoring the machine (eventually he will completely).

The concept is to teach the dog that coffee makers are "normal" and they are like "boogey men" the fear of them is unrealistic and should not exist.

The coffee maker is as normal as the radio or TV. They are not to react to it. It is just part of the house.

 

 

The treats should ONLY be given while the dog is "learning" the machine is nothing to be afraid of and starts behaving appropriately or demonstrating the approximate correct behavior.

That good behavior gets rewards.

Once the "normal" behavior is accomplished you do not "treat" the dog for not reacting to the coffee maker any more than you would for not freaking out when you turn on your TV or stereo.

You react to the dog's "good" behavior and lack of freak out episodes for what it is supposed to be: "Normal"

 

You no longer "bribe" your dog with treats to GET IT to go outside and act right and use the yard why "bribe" the dog to act right when the coffee maker comes out?

When the dog is learning to go potty outside and does what it is supposed to ( act normal)--you reward it.

Same with the coffee maker.

When it has mastered the task of going outside (acting normal) do you give it a treat every single time, all day long, every day, all month, all year?

 

Same with the coffee maker.

The coffee maker is now "normal".

The dogs reaction to it is now normal

It does not deserve treats for being "normal"

 

.

The learning/knowing/understanding the coffee maker and getting a treat for it phase is over.

Just like potty training.

 

 

I would be leery of treating your dog every time you whip out the machine and make your self Espresso. When he smells your coffee it is not a cue for him to have water and a biscotti with you. He'll constantly beg and be a nuisance. God forbid you have coffee and donuts in the morning---or worse yet---breakfast in bed!

 

Good luck in your quest.

I'm rooting for you---and your coffee

I can't post a full response at the moment because I'm on my phone, but will sometime soon. In the meantime this is totally absolutely false. Dogs that are overwhelmed to that level of anxiety CANNOT learn like you are proposing. If you expose the dog to the source of their fear in the hopes they will just get over it, you are doing something called flooding, which is dangerous and potentially damaging for so many reasons. Anyone with a grasp on how dogs learn and current techniques on behavior modification wouldnt recommend flooding as the preferred method, if at all. Gradual counter-conditioning and desensitization are the way to deal with this fear, possibly with the help of medication.

 

To the OP, I'm sorry, but in the meantime you're going to have to give up your espresso and go back to plain old brewed coffee.

[Guest Giselle]

Please don't flood your dog. It is unsound advice. And 4 weeks with minimal progress is not acceptable when I'm modifying behavior. If my clients aren't getting major results with their fearful dogs within a few training sessions, that means something is wrong with the technique. So, what is likely inappropriate with Zoesmommy's technique is that it is highly aversive and highly stressful. The dog will learn nothing about its fears other than "My human keeps forcing me into this scary situation, and I can't do anything so I'm going to shut down and do nothing". This is learned helplessness, and this is what looks like a solution to the untrained eye. But, to the trained eyes, an animal who has learned helplessness is a grossly overwhelmed creature who has just learned to give up. This is not the outcome you want.

 

If you follow a basic counter conditioning protocol and use alternate behaviors, you should start seeing dramatic changes in the dog's emotional disposition towards the nuisance sounds within 1-2 weeks. Here's a video of the basic approach I use:

http://www.progressdog.com/video-targeting-game.html

This is a puppy with fears of young children who learns that, not only are children NOT scary, but they're actually pretty fun to interact with. This is your goal with the espresso machine and other noises. Because your pup is more reactive right now, you would naturally start farther away and work harder to keep his attention. Do faster Targeting games and only work for a few minutes at a time. Rinse, wash, repeat. Then, move closer to the machine and do the same routine. Eventually, you CAN get to the point where you can ask your dog to Target the machine as it is running. I love having my clients demonstrate this to me because it's such a great indicator of how much fear the dog has overcome. You can get there. It's just a matter of smart training!

[cleptogrey]

a treat is not feeding your dog, it's a treat. the morsels can be very small- and eventually eliminated. but what's wrong w/ coffee and doughnuts together??? i would NOT give up the espresso machine, i would try all of the suggestions above, S L O W L Y and see what YOU feel comfortable with and what works for your decaffeinated pupper!

[zoesmommy]

Hi gang,

 

Don't want to get into a war over this. I agree with the lady above .

I'm not sure...but I don't think any of us are professional dog trainers(?) so....all you can do in regards to Ryder is read and take with a grain of salt.

 

Best advice...do what YOU feel is right! Only you know your dog. Only your love and intuition can guide you to what is best for Ryder.

 

Greys are like people, each unique and special and with their own personalities and quirks, fears and anxieties, displays of bravery and sense of humor.

 

We have to remember probably 97% of us out there adopted ours and did not raise them from puppy-hood.

That being the case we do not necessarily know from where they came, how they were treated at the race track and by their owners and trainers.

We don't know how well their fostering went and what "exactly" they were/were not exposed to. (steps, am I allowed on the furniture, can I sleep on the bed, do I get people food, is there a doggy door or not...or will I learn these things at my forever home? I know what the ice maker on the refrigerator sounds like and the garage door opener but not the Espresso machine or nail gun.)

 

See...every dog gets something different at fostering.

I bet a lot of you got dogs that already knew stairs but got on furniture (some people don't like this;some people don't mind)

 

These factors and variables prevent us from knowing what may or may not send our Greys into a tail-spin of anxiety when they encounter something new and unfamiliar or what may have conditioned them to handle it like a champ.

 

My absolute LAST WORD

Talk to your vet please!

He/She has treated your dog and is familiar with their health and personality...as well as you and how you interact with Ryder.

He/She can tell you if this is a medical condition or just a "fear"

 

THEY CAN TELL YOU based on your dog's personality/mannerisms WHAT TYPE of training your dog most likely would respond to best!

They may also be able to recommend a local dog trainer/behaviorist for you

 

That's what mine did for me.

The lady that is helping me is a former vet that worked with a lot of Greys (she was in an area where there was a track) and now works part-time in an animal shelter.

She and her methods work for Zoe.

 

They may not work for Ryder or others.

 

Best of luck in your search and in your solution. Please let all of us know how it goes. We're rooting for you, your Espresso and Ryder!

[NeylasMom]

Nevermind

Edited December 18, 2013 by NeylasMom

[GreyTzu]

I can't post a full response at the moment because I'm on my phone, but will sometime soon. In the meantime this is totally absolutely false. Dogs that are overwhelmed to that level of anxiety CANNOT learn like you are proposing. If you expose the dog to the source of their fear in the hopes they will just get over it, you are doing something called flooding, which is dangerous and potentially damaging for so many reasons. Anyone with a grasp on how dogs learn and current techniques on behavior modification wouldnt recommend flooding as the preferred method, if at all. Gradual counter-conditioning and desensitization are the way to deal with this fear, possibly with the help of medication.

 

To the OP, I'm sorry, but in the meantime you're going to have to give up your espresso and go back to plain old brewed coffee.

 

Listen to Jen here. She actually has a clue or two.

[BootsyCollins]

I'm not sure...but I don't think any of us are professional dog trainers

Giselle and Neylasmom are

 

I, however, am not. Just ask Bootsy

[Guest jetska]

Giselle and Neylasmom give good advice. Think about how his fears towards the garage are worsening. I think that is evidence that just pushing him over threshold (ie flooding) doesn't work for your dog. The target game is a good one and I did that with Barbie along with automatic sits and heelwork to help her get over her fears on walks. It started working after a few weeks.

[Guest Giselle]

I am a veterinary student and dog behavior consultant, and I've worked with *many* veterinarians and *many* professional (and unprofessional) dog trainers.

 

MOST veterinarians do not understand behavior (the training we get is often very poor, sometimes non-existent), and many still hold outdated notions about dog training. Many veterinarians still use choke chains, prong collars, intimidation, and coercive/compulsive techniques. Many vets still do "collar pops" and endorse "alpha rolls". Most of us don't receive good training in animal behavior in vet school. That's all I have to say about this. And, if you don't believe me, I encourage you to look up the rich history and actual behavior science of modern animal training and to use critical thinking when it comes to dog behavior. Flooding is never the answer, and flooding is a terrible suggestion for dealing with fears. Classical counter-conditioning is easy, backed by years of empirical data, and works so much faster anyways. It's the best tool we've got.

[NeylasMom]

Giselle and Neylasmom are

 

I, however, am not. Just ask Bootsy

Well, Giselle is and I am working on it. And I happen to know that you're quite capable of training successfully when you want to (or are going to shoot your dog otherwise) Miss Self-Deprecation.

 

To the OP, now that I have time to sit down and actually type a response, Giselle has really covered most of what I would have said. The key thing I would take away is that flooding leads to a state of learned helplessness, it does not address the fear. Another key point - often as the dog is exposed to the stimulus and the anxiety increases, the owner, unable to watch their dog in such panic will remove the source of the stimulus, or in some cases perhaps the stimulus goes away on its own. In that moment, what just happened? The dog was just reinforced his state of heightened anxiety. So often flooding can result in an increased state of anxiety, which Jetska astutely pointed out you may already be experiencing. I could go on, but the only other danger I'll mention here is that the dog can begin to associate you with the source of the fear. There are so many reasons why flooding just isn't the way to go and classical counter-conditioning is, as Giselle said.

 

The only other thing I will say is to pass on something that Pat Miller said to me that really helped me understand why you can't wait for the good behavior and then reward it as Zoesmommy tried to suggest. Assuming most people know who Ivan Pavlov and BF Skinner are, but just in case, Pavlov is the person recognized for "discovering" classical conditioning - the dog has a physiological response that is outside of its control to a stimulus (remember Pavlov's dogs, who would drool automatically at the sound of a bell after the bell had been paired with food?). Skinner was the one associated with operant conditioning - the dog learns that his behavior has a consequence and modifies his behavior in response to that consequence. So imagine Pavlov is on one shoulder and Skinner is on the other. In a situation like this one, Pavlov is big and LOUD. He's jumping around and yelling in your ear. Skinner is on the other side talking, but you can barely hear him if at all over Pavlov's ruckus. The only way to quiet Pavlov down is to remove or lessen the stimulus causing the anxiety. Then we can begin to change the dog's emotional response. As an example, think about someone with stage fright. Does just putting them out on stage quell their anxiety? Or would it be better to have the person practice doing something simple, like playing a simple tune in front of one or two people before having them try to play a concerto in front of 1000 people?

 

Probably much more than anyone wanted to read from me, but there's my two cents fwiw.

Edited December 19, 2013 by NeylasMom

[Guest MnMDogs]

It's definitely not more than I want to read . I've worked with a trainer for Macy May's issues, and she seems to be from the same school you and Giselle are. That said I really still know NOTHING, and I'm just thrilled that I've mastered a tiny tiny bit of what I was taught so that Macy and I can complete a walk without her straining herself whenever we encounter another dog.

 

We also have a very very fearful dog, and we've been at a loss with him. If I can ever really wrap my head around this, I think we may be able to help him more (he's come so so far by what appear to be sheer luck) with some of his issues.

 

Thank you both for your posts and your input. Because even for those of us who don't post, they make a difference, and make us think,

 

And I'd also really like to know what kid of espresso machine the Op has. We have the nespresso, and it's soo loud. Thankfully,that's not a trigger for Greggy.

[NeylasMom]

It's definitely not more than I want to read . I've worked with a trainer for Macy May's issues, and she seems to be from the same school you and Giselle are. That said I really still know NOTHING, and I'm just thrilled that I've mastered a tiny tiny bit of what I was taught so that Macy and I can complete a walk without her straining herself whenever we encounter another dog.

 

We also have a very very fearful dog, and we've been at a loss with him. If I can ever really wrap my head around this, I think we may be able to help him more (he's come so so far by what appear to be sheer luck) with some of his issues.

 

Thank you both for your posts and your input. Because even for those of us who don't post, they make a difference, and make us think,

 

And I'd also really like to know what kid of espresso machine the Op has. We have the nespresso, and it's soo loud. Thankfully,that's not a trigger for Greggy.

Aww shucks, thanks Carol. Have you talked to your trainer about your fearful dog? If he's really fearful, medication might be a good choice for you and depending on the extent of things a veterinary behaviorist can be an excellent (if expensive) resource.

 

Your comment about the espresso machine reminded me though that I was going to mention that I do actually have experience with dealing with noise in the kitchen. Not fear like this, but Skye was very reactive anytime I ran an appliance in the kitchen - garbage disposal, blender, etc. And case in point, I was lazy and tried to just ignore it and it did not get better. Instead she started barking every time I chopped anything on a cutting board! At that point, I actually took a few minutes to make sure I had small pieces of treats available and would chop chop, treat, chop chop, treat, or as the blender was running I would feed a steady stream of treats - basic classical conditioning. Problem solved, with very little effort. Now the vacuum we are still working on. Mostly because I am again lazy and tend to just put her in a crate in another room with a kong.

[Wonder]

 

Listen to Jen here. She actually has a clue or two.

I agree 100%. Jen is my go to gal and in my eyes, she is a professional trainer.