Race Treatment

[2greyhoundMINI]

I'm not sure where to ask this......

 

First, I want to preface this thread by saying our greyhounds are awesome.... No issues and they are just joys.

 

Now my question:

June, who is a little more on the anxious and leery side of the two, has many scars on her back legs.

Is this from bad treatment at the track when she raced? I have a friend who has greys and her one grey has the same marks and she said he was abused.

I am wondering if the same is true of my baby June?

[RedHead]

NO..this is very likely untrue. Those marks are probably racing scars (we all know how easily greyhounds scar!). They can be from bumping, playing, running into lure wires, gates, etc., etc. Teague has way more scars now than when I adopted him. Mostly little nicks from hiking and playing with other dogs.

There are many greyhounds who are anxious, but it most likely just has to do with their personality. People always assume it's because they were abused. There are many experienced people on here who are very familiar with the racetrack world, who can chime in with more info. You may want to pass it onto your friend who thinks her grey was "abused" as well.

[Guest jetska]

Mouse has some nice big bite mark scars on her butt. Now that I know her well I understand why, she just rubs some dogs up the wrong way. She also has a bald spot on her back that a vet nurse friend said was likely to be an intermuscular injection given too shallow.... but we will never really know.

[2greyhoundMINI]

I've seen them from day one and didn't think too much of it before my friend said something.

 

I'm hoping it's just a grey being a clumsy grey. I would hate to think anyone would treat her badly... she's so sweet!

[OwnedBySummer]

Summer has scars on her legs, too. Some small, some larger. I know for a fact that she was never abused and can't imagine why anyone would think that -- they are solely accidental. And yup, she's acquired more since I've had her.

Edited December 12, 2013 by OwnedBySummer

[greysmom]

Lots of little nicks and cuts happen all the time - during races, during turnouts - just playing with a group of other dogs can cause them. It's *very* unlikely that any of the scars on your dog are from being abused. And while it can cause anxiety, it's also unlikely that your dog is anxious because of any abuse she received at the farm or track, any more than an anxious person is that way from being beaten as a child. Some dogs are just genetically disposed to be more anxious. You can pass that info on to your friend, but you likely won't change her mind.

[brianamac]

We have a grey who is nicked and scarred up quite a bit... he has acquired many more since we've had him. He is also anxious. I am positive he was not abused.

We recently visited a Greyhound farm and got to see the puppies at various stages from birth to 1 year old, and I can tell you from watching their play: a lot of the scars come from puppyhood rough play.

The scars are totally normal and NOT indicative of abuse.

If you're unsure about this type of thing, you can try and contact the owner/trainer to confirm. Most of the scars are likely the result of regular play between dogs and their thin skin.

Just want to add this as well: your picture suggests that June is Fawn. IMO, fawn's tend to show scarring MUCH more than some other colours.

[jetcitywoman]

Agree with everybody and also Bri's comment that fawns show scars more. I've noticed that as well. I've also noticed that brindles are really good at hiding scars. Which is fortunate for me - Capri has a few that are entirely my fault so I'd hate to have to explain them to people! (I don't abuse her, just didn't supervise adequately a few times when she was new to us.)

[Guest Giselle]

Part of why behavior disorders are so fascinating is because they're so complicated.

 

Why is your dog anxious? Well, here are a few scenarios (that we know are true due to science and factual evidence):

- It may be genetic. There are certain mood-modulating chemicals in our brain that fluctuate according to the time of day, according to diet, according to genetics. Your dog may have a genetic predisposition towards having, say, low baselines of these mood-modulating chemicals. Or maybe she has (mostly harmless) mutations that result in irregular balances of the mood-modulating chemicals. Or maybe she has (again, mostly harmless) mutations that result in a deficiency of production of the mood-modulating chemicals, or maybe her cell's receptors have a hard time "reading" the chemical signals. The brain architecture itself helps determine behavior. Maybe it's all of the above. Maybe your dog inherited a couple of different risk factors that culminated in a greater expression of anxiety.

- It may be neurological and developmental. Maybe your dog's brain developed more in one area than another, heightening her fear response or lack of impulse control. Early in an animal's development, the brain is highly sensitive to environmental changes, enrichment, and in receiving nurturing behaviors from its mother. If it had a negligent or inexperienced mother, the puppies could all have developed abnormally because of this. These abnormal changes in young animals are, as far as we think, permanent changes to the brain, and, possibly, down to the genome itself due to epigenetic changes.

- It may be learned. Fear behaviors often get worse on their own because they "work" for the dog. Fear is used to protect an animal. So, when a dog displays fear behaviors and the fear trigger goes away (i.e. a scared dog growls at a stranger person = strange person goes away), then the animal will repeat this behavior in the future because, to him, it "worked". Fear is a useful and powerful tool, and it will strengthen if it gets practiced. The dog may have had *thousands* of opportunities to practice subtle displays of fear, which we may now see as generalized anxiety.

 

Notice how many scenarios have popped up, and I haven't once mentioned abuse. Behavior is complicated. The answer is almost never as simple as abuse.

[2greyhoundMINI]

This is all reassuring. I've been wanting to ask about it for a while.

 

As for the anxiety- that was the reason given why she was returned to the adoption place and how I lucked out and got her

In the past 4+ months we've had her she has settled quite a bit with us. I think she will always be more susceptible to loud noises, etc. but I think environment helps a lot and she seems to really like it with us and Sidney

[cleptogrey]

as to scars on the rear legs- it's often from their front nails as they may hit the rear when they run. little semi-circles, small lines less than 1" long??? felix has a ton of them and he was brought up at my home, he came to us at 7 weeks.

 

some dogs take a very long time to feel comfortable in their own skins. i have one of those at home, 3+ years and she's finally a pretty "normal" dog. but still on the reserved side. she hated obedience training- did everything and literally shut off/down after each exercise. she went to sleep! traveling, walking and just taking her on outing and having an extroverted roll model(felix) has helped.

[Guest Wasserbuffel]

I get to go to the track today to take a video of my dog watching the races. If you watch her, and the other retired greys, when we do Meet and Greets at the track you'll see how positively they view racing. Most of the dogs watch the races intently, some whine. Mine pretty much yodels, hops, pulls on her leash, and is basically a loudmouth nutball over it.

 

Like the others have posted, mine has gotten more scars since coming home than she got racing. She has two small scars near her hip bones, because she's constantly knocking her back on the underside of my kitchen table as she passes to go outside or come back in. There is plenty of room to walk around it, and the table hasn't moved the whole time she's lived here, she'd just rather go under the edge and cut her back than go around. (The table isn't sharp, it's wood, she just hits the edge at speed on occasion and gets nicked.)

[Gryffenne]

My Sammi is very shy. She has scars, and 2 of them were caused by her accident. Never abused from what I could find.

 

I've been around a grey that has been abused. No more scars than a typical thin skinned dog would have,. Friendly and outgoing to everyone she met.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Gryffenne

[a_daerr]

Highly unlikely that she was abused or mistreated. Most anxious/nervy greyhounds are that way due to (1) genetics, or (2) a lack of socialization. I wouldn't read to far into it. Most greys have lots of scrapes, scratches, nicks, when they come home from the track. And if they don't, they're bound to get them at one point or another. My AKC hound came home at 15-weeks. He's only two now, but he has tons of imperfections from minor injuries. Your friend's dog probably wasn't abused either- a lot of people like to automatically assume abuse when it comes to the racing industry because of stuff that happened a million years ago. It's usually bogus.

[2greyhoundMINI]

This is one case I'm glad to be wrong

[Guest Giselle]

It's a natural human desire to want to find the cause of something, and we naturally want a simple answer. We want to know that ONE genetic mutation that leads to "X" disease. We want to know that ONE event that made our dog scared or fearful. We want to know that ONE problem that led to this generalized state of anxiety.

 

Simple is easy for us to understand, and it would make our approach for modifying behavior that much easier. But behavior is complicated (as is almost everything else in science ha!). So, we just accept the complexity, acknowledge that there are answers that we may not know, and just keep working hard and being humble. And, sometimes, we have to accept the fact that maybe we'll never know the answer. But we can always get better at asking and answering questions. I think this is a fun topic, actually, and I'm sure MANY people have wondered the same questions about their dogs. Don't be shy about it

[brindlehound]

Magic has a scar on his hip that may be the size of a small greyhound needle nose. I'm convinced it was a nip from one of his siblings possibly from when he was a puppy in Iowa. I could be wrong though.

[Hubcitypam]

Honestly after 15 of years of doing this in my heart I believe the vast majority of greyhounds are VERY well cared for during their growing up and racing years. Some scars come from the double gallop but most are growing up and they do show so much more on fawns. I have been to many farms from the slick ones to the ones held together with bailing wire and seen lots of people that loved their dogs.

That said, I have also seen how once they leave the track all bets are off as far as tender loving care in many cases - including AA and Stakes dogs.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Hubcitypam

[jetcitywoman]

As a naive first-time greyhound adopter when we got Capri, I never worried that she'd been abused. It was very evident that this never-met-a-stranger, outgoing and happy hound had never had a hand raised against her. I did wonder if she'd been "forced" to race as some people say. Then I took her to Greyhounds in Gettysburg and went to the speed run where they had it all fenced and were using squawkers. She was almost uncontrollable - pulling TOWARD the activity and putting up a big fuss because I wouldn't unleash her. When it was her turn, if she was a human child, she would have been yelling "that was great, let's do it again!"

 

Similar but different with Ajax. He has a mediocre track record and spent more time in trucks being hauled around than running himself around the oval. He prefers a clownish twisty gallop over a double-suspension ground eating gallop. So I thought in the speed run he would join the ranks of the wander-and-pee crowd. Instead, he blasted down the course like his tail was on fire, and the pics we got of it afterward showed the same joyous doggy grin that Capri had.

 

Closer to the topic of scars and injuries, there are many race videos of dogs falling, getting up and rejoining the race. Some get spooked by shiny floors, but Capri is one of those where she runs in the house, falls on the kitchen floor, regains her feet and keeps going. Some minor injuries from that, but she doesn't let them slow her down.

[Hubcitypam]

I cannot post links anymore for some reason which I am sure is due to my stupidity.

If you go to trackifo and go to the 20th race at Southland on January 21, 2013 you'll see the #5 dog get in a wreck so bad it literally tossed him out of the race. His trainer told the owners that he had been x-rayed and had a hairline fracture in his pelvis. The owners believed him, and to their credit kept him on the farm for 7 months.

He comes here and we do radiographs to see how bad his fracture is. There is no fracture. He is the only greyhound in the world with a shredded ACL/CCL. As he sat around on the farm his leg atrophied to half the size of the other and no one noticed. That said, it you are dealing with 300+ dogs you might not notice especially if the adrenaline upon getting some attention at his pen would override the limp.

My vet said he had never seen a vet and calls to all the vets in West Memphis that work on dogs for that kennel seemed to confirm that. We went to the surgical referral center to the specialists and no one could believe what they were seeing. Greyhounds just don't tear their CCLs...but this one did - which is perhaps he was never given any treatment after his wreck.

He is fixed now by old school ex-cap. When the vet got in there his meniscus (which I didn't know existed) was totally calcified and he had to pick it out in pieces. Comfort was a VERY good young AA racer at Southland. I don't think the owners failed him - I think the trainer did maybe by trying to save some money.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Hubcitypam