Osteo Thread Part V I I

[4My2Greys]

Buddy update: He is not doing well, in a lot of pain this week. I'm checking with oncologist to see if another round of radiation is even an option for him. I'm not ready, but then I'll never be ready. This boy is the love of my life!

That is such a great picture of you two together. I hope the radiation gives you more time with your boy.

[4My2Greys]

...Well, this year she turned 11 in May and after that it was like someone pressed a button and overnight she began to show signs of weakness. She started struggling on our walks. Panting heavily without exercise. Being fussy about eating. Losing weight, etc..

 

So, my question for everyone would be...

 

What are we missing here?? We are straining our brains to figure out what could possibly be causing the severe weakness in her hind leg. We know old age is a factor and also the fact that her one rear leg has been doing the work of 2 for almost 5 years now! Could it be muscle weakness and have nothing to do with bone?

 

 

It breaks my heart to see her struggle so much, yet I know we are blessed to have her still with us! She still has that zest for life...her eyes tell me that. But she can't figure out how to make her body do what her mind wants to do.

 

I appreciate any help or advice. Maggie-Mae does too!

The same thing started happening to Nadir back in November of last year. He was not only panting during walks, but his backend was so weakened that the slightest nudge and sometimes not even that would cause his backend to collapse. When I had him in at Auburn in May for an abdominal ultrasound for a bladder problem it was discovered that he had a large thrombus in the aortic trifurcation. Depending where a thrombus gets lodged it can cause varying degrees of weakness and even paralysis. It is also can be very painful, which could attribute to the panting. If you haven't already have a ultrasound done to check for something like this. Right now you can check the pulses of her femoral arteries to help check for this. Nadir's is strong in his left leg and absent in his right. Indicating part or all the thrombus has migrated down his right leg.

 

http://greytarticles.wordpress.com/medical-first-aid/blood-heart-vascular/aortic-thromboembolism-are-greyhounds-at-risk-4310/

[Victor]

Updating Casper's progress. He had his second chemo treatment this past week. We are working hard trying to get him to gain weight. He is not food motivated and seems to have a case of food adversion. On top of that, his phantom pain has kicked in. He is on Gabapentin and amantadine for the pain. It's hard to see him have these episodes of phantom pain. He is resting then yelps and shoots out of the room. This can happen a few times but then he is nervous and stressed for a couple of hours. This can happen a few times a day. Wondering if anyone else has or is experiencing this, if so, any other suggestions??

Sorry to hear Casper doesn't want to eat. Have you tried an antiemetic? It could be he's nauseous but not showing it.

 

From what I've read, it sounds like you're doing the right thing with gabapentin and amantadine for Casper's phantom limb pain. How much gabapentin are you giving him? Are you giving it every 6 hours? As others have noted, it seems to be more effective when given every 6 hours instead of every 12. (Just make sure it's the same number of milligrams in a 24 hour period.) Also, it can take time to reach maximum efficacy.

 

For some dogs, it seems warm compresses, gentle massaging, and/or compressions help. See http://tripawds.com/2011/03/08/post-amputation-side-effects-in-dogs/ and http://www.tripawds.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2007/10/caninephantomlimbpain.pdf .

 

Hope this helps!

I don't have suggestions specifically for the phantom pain...though it could be possible his skin at the amp site is still healing together and when he moves it might feel "pinchy." Also being shaved down, some of them get very irritated as their hair starts to grow back. Coconut oil applied topically helps a lot with that (shaving irritation), and you can even give it to him orally too (1 tsp per 10 lbs. body weight).

 

Recently I've been doing a lot of reading about coconut oil for dogs. I eat it quite frequently and use it sometimes when my psoriasis flares up with dry patches, so I don't know why it never occurred to me to use it for the pups!

That's interesting! Do you buy pure coconut oil? Or is it the primary ingredient in some brand of lotion? Lana's skin was quite irritated by the shaving, and we have to keep an eye on her to make sure she doesn't make it worse by licking it. (That in addition to her wanting to lick the open wound where her abscess drained means we have to watch her pretty much 24x7!)

[Guest snakes]

Hi all,

Sorry to have been absent for so long (a new baby will do that!).

I am sorry to hear about all the losses and new members recently, my heart goes out to each of you.

I specifically wanted to respond about Compass. As others have pointed out, the radiation and pamidronate are still palliative measures, they may shrink the tumor or build the bone as the osteo eats it, but it is no cure. I did pamidronate with FedX and it made a world of difference for his pain control, we actually did see a small amount of bone growth months after too, however in many cases the effects gradually become less and less beneficial (and each treatment is costly as well). Saying that. given our same situation i would do it again in a heartbeat. FedX was lucky too that his tumor was relatively slow growing.

I felt that in addition to the pamidronate that artemisinin made a big difference as well, you may want to look into this via the yahoo groups page. We also did chinese herbs as well, i am not sure if they made any difference but we kept him on them anyway as something was working! As Twiggys mom said, FedX lived a year and 10 months post diagnosis, no amputation, just palliative pain control!

If you have any specific questions, feel free to Pm me

[krissn333]

Victor, I have the jars of coconut oil from Trader Joe's. Many people use it for cooking, etc. as well

[Victor]

Victor, I have the jars of coconut oil from Trader Joe's. Many people use it for cooking, etc. as well

Thanks, Kristin! We'll get some the next time we go to TJ's!

[Guest bozicj]

Python update: Her regular doc is back from vacation and we saw him today. He says her wound has closed/contracted about 25% on it's own since a week ago (which is great since it started out as big as a grapefruit circumference-wise). We'll keep an eye on it and decide whether to let it close on its own or close it surgically. I'm hoping selfishly for surgically closing it since the bandage changes are stressful for me and her (me, because she's constantly trying to get it off).

 

We also switched her to gabapentin instead of tramadol. She woke up at 5 am panting and crying. I gave her some tramadol and an hour later she was the same. Tried her anti-anxiety meds next with the same result. So we went in through emergency since the UofM is 24/7. They gave her some pain meds by injection and monitored her for a few hours until her regular vet was in. He thinks the panting might be phantom pain.

Also, question for you all: how long does it usually take for the gabapentin to "kick in". I know the tramadol used to take about 30-45 minutes. Just wondering what to expect with the new drug. We're on a capsule every 8 hours for timing.

[MrAlexTheDog]

if katie's oncologist approves, she will get her 2nd dose of chemo on monday.

[Guest fastcasper]

Thanks for the info. Casper is on meds for his appetite, but once the phantom pain kicks in he is NOT interested in food at all. His is stressed for some time. I think they are going to do Gapapentin every 8 hours and see how that goes plus give him something to help calm him down. Not a good weekend for Casper and me. Right now he is panting and restless because recently he yelped and got up quickly. You know, they don't really tell you this part of amputation.

[greysmom]

Gabapentin could take a day or so to work up to the right level. Keep giving it on schedule, or even a bit early, as greyhounds tend to metabolize it quickly. We were giving Dude's dose every 6.5 -7 hours, I believe, to keep ahead of his pain. Each dog is different, check with your vet first.

[KF_in_Georgia]

Python may need more than one capsule of gabapentin at a time. Sam gets two 100mg capsules at a time, and he gets them at breakfast (abt 8:30), lunch (1:30), dinner (6:30) and bedtime (12 or so). He's also taking methocarbamol and tramadol (his problem is arthritis, though, not osteo).

 

Sam's vet has okayed 900mg of gabapentin a day for Sam, so I have one reserve capsule I can give him on bad days--which are getting too frequent around here.

[Victor]

Thanks for the info. Casper is on meds for his appetite, but once the phantom pain kicks in he is NOT interested in food at all. His is stressed for some time. I think they are going to do Gapapentin every 8 hours and see how that goes plus give him something to help calm him down. Not a good weekend for Casper and me. Right now he is panting and restless because recently he yelped and got up quickly. You know, they don't really tell you this part of amputation.

I know what you mean. I hope the gabapentin helps. We had to give Lana 100mg (1 capsule) every 6 hours for it to be of help. That's in addition to her NSAID.

 

Do you have any anti-anxiety medicine for Casper? Alprazolam was helpful for Lana when she was having anxious/restless nights.

 

Today we made another trip to the vet to remove a subcutaneous suture that had managed to poke through Lana's skin. She still has the open wound from the abscess that ruptured last week, too. She's on antibiotics for it, but we're still worried about her getting an infection. Fortunately Lana is good about going to the vet. Now I understand why they list that as one of the criteria for determining whether amputation is an option!

[joejoesmom]

So it is now official. Dr. Couto will be retiring at the end of August.

To read about his retirement and the interim plan for the Greyhound Health and Wellness Program:

 

https://greyhound.osu.edu/

 

Jane

[Victor]

Python update: Her regular doc is back from vacation and we saw him today. He says her wound has closed/contracted about 25% on it's own since a week ago (which is great since it started out as big as a grapefruit circumference-wise). We'll keep an eye on it and decide whether to let it close on its own or close it surgically. I'm hoping selfishly for surgically closing it since the bandage changes are stressful for me and her (me, because she's constantly trying to get it off).

 

We also switched her to gabapentin instead of tramadol. She woke up at 5 am panting and crying. I gave her some tramadol and an hour later she was the same. Tried her anti-anxiety meds next with the same result. So we went in through emergency since the UofM is 24/7. They gave her some pain meds by injection and monitored her for a few hours until her regular vet was in. He thinks the panting might be phantom pain.

Also, question for you all: how long does it usually take for the gabapentin to "kick in". I know the tramadol used to take about 30-45 minutes. Just wondering what to expect with the new drug. We're on a capsule every 8 hours for timing.

It might be actual pain. Gabapentin doesn't seem to be as effective at controlling pain as tramadol, Is Python getting an NSAID in addition to the gabapentin? If not (and if she can tolerate an NSAID), you might try giving her both gabapentin and an NSAID like Previcox.

 

That's great that Python's wound has contracted that much! Hope it continues to heal quickly!

[Victor]

So it is now official. Dr. Couto will be retiring at the end of August.

 

To read about his retirement and the interim plan for the Greyhound Health and Wellness Program:

 

https://greyhound.osu.edu/

 

Jane

Thanks for sharing this. This is sad news indeed for the greyhound community.

[Charlies_Dad]

I am saddened by Dr. Coutu's retirement but there comes a time when everyone needs to slow down and decide other things take priority in life. I hope OSU can keep things running well.

[MrAlexTheDog]

no chemo for katie yesterday. her oncologist wants her neutrophil count to be higher. so she gets more blood pulled on friday, and if her oncologist ok's it, her 2nd chemo is next monday.

[Guest bozicj]

Anyone on here ever used DogLeggs for amputees (or know someone who has)?

[Guest Taras]

Need to get treetops weight back up. and need ideas.

He lost 7lbs in ten days. From dental and biopsy to stitch removal.

[Guest showtime]

Hi all,

Sorry to have been absent for so long (a new baby will do that!).

I am sorry to hear about all the losses and new members recently, my heart goes out to each of you.

I specifically wanted to respond about Compass. As others have pointed out, the radiation and pamidronate are still palliative measures, they may shrink the tumor or build the bone as the osteo eats it, but it is no cure. I did pamidronate with FedX and it made a world of difference for his pain control, we actually did see a small amount of bone growth months after too, however in many cases the effects gradually become less and less beneficial (and each treatment is costly as well). Saying that. given our same situation i would do it again in a heartbeat. FedX was lucky too that his tumor was relatively slow growing.

I felt that in addition to the pamidronate that artemisinin made a big difference as well, you may want to look into this via the yahoo groups page. We also did chinese herbs as well, i am not sure if they made any difference but we kept him on them anyway as something was working! As Twiggys mom said, FedX lived a year and 10 months post diagnosis, no amputation, just palliative pain control!

If you have any specific questions, feel free to Pm me

 

 

How do I PM on this site? I don't see the option? PM me, if you can. I have questions. Thank you in advance.

Edited August 7, 2013 by showtime

[greysmom]

You must have 50 non-Cute&Funny posts to your credit before you can send and receive PMs. If you have an email you don't mind posting, I'm sure she'd be happy to talk with you.

[Guest fastcasper]

Casper went in yesterday for his CBC work and we talk about a different game plan for his phantom pain. My doc took him off 4 meds and added 2. He is still on his appetite meds (2), Gabapentin, Deramaxx (NSAID), and Diazepam (anti anxiety). Its only been 24 hours but its been the best 24 hour in a week. And he seems to be eating a bit better too. He needs to put weight on. Thank god for Ensure. I mix it with sweet potatoes or pumpkin...he laps it up!!

[4My2Greys]

Casper went in yesterday for his CBC work and we talk about a different game plan for his phantom pain. My doc took him off 4 meds and added 2. He is still on his appetite meds (2), Gabapentin, Deramaxx (NSAID), and Diazepam (anti anxiety). Its only been 24 hours but its been the best 24 hour in a week. And he seems to be eating a bit better too. He needs to put weight on. Thank god for Ensure. I mix it with sweet potatoes or pumpkin...he laps it up!!

I don't know how receptive you are to trying homeopathic remedies, but here is one I remembered reading about that is suppose to help with phantom limb pain after amputation.

 

http://www.homeopathyforhealth.net/2010/02/16/symphytum-officinale-a-homeopathic-first-aid-remedy/

[Roo]

I wasn't really sure where to put this as I didn't know him well enough to post in Remembrance (I guess I could anyway...but still). I just got an email about the grey (Breeze) that I found for free on CL and transported to his original group. He was pretty weak in the back end and after a few tests, his group learned he had a mass growing on his back leg - Osteo. I wish so much that it had been something they could treat, but his limp was so awful that they didn't have much of a choice and had to let him go peacefully. Poor poor boy But I'm happy, at least, that he's no longer in pain...

 

Mom and I both cried when we got the news. We knew him for less than 3 hours, from the time we picked him up until we left the rescue group's building, but his sweetness in the face of his obvious pain made such an impact.

[Guest fastcasper]

Thanks for the link. It sounds interesting! I am having some acupuncture done on Casper next week and I will ask her about it. He is doing better and I think if we can tweak his anti anxiety medicine a bit, we may get a better handle on it.

Good new though, is he is eating anything I put in front of him now. We will gain weight before our next CBC next week!!