Osteo Thread Part V I I

[Guest yat420]

What a cutie! I'm surprised how much the color of his coat changed. That's wonderful that you were able to save him when he was just a puppy. I hope the additional dose of radiation helps. Have you tried a bisphosphonate such as pamidronate? I don't know if it would help, but you could ask your oncologist about it.

Thank you. I think he is the most handsome guy in the world. Yes, we have been doing the pamidronate every 3 weeks for awhile. It used to make him feel so good, but now not having much effect. We'll see how he does after his radiation today. I fear that we are approaching the end of our journey.

[Victor]

Thank you. I think he is the most handsome guy in the world. Yes, we have been doing the pamidronate every 3 weeks for awhile. It used to make him feel so good, but now not having much effect. We'll see how he does after his radiation today. I fear that we are approaching the end of our journey.

Glad to hear the pamidronate helped for a while. Hope the radiation treatment today helps again. Poor puppy. Cancer sucks.

 

 

Update on Lana:

Turns out the watery bulge under Lana's incision wasn't a seroma; it was an abscess. This morning it burst and a lot of blood drained out. The surgeon prescribed another round of antibiotics and said to keep an eye out for signs of infection. She said in a way it's fortunate that it burst; if it hadn't they would have had to drain it and clean it under anesthesia. Lana seems much more comfortable now that it's emptied.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Victor

[TwiggysMom]

Thank you. I think he is the most handsome guy in the world. Yes, we have been doing the pamidronate every 3 weeks for awhile. It used to make him feel so good, but now not having much effect. We'll see how he does after his radiation today. I fear that we are approaching the end of our journey.

I'm sorry to hear he is is struggling some. I hope the radiation has helped.

 

Update on Lana:

Turns out the watery bulge under Lana's incision wasn't a seroma; it was an abscess. This morning it burst and a lot of blood drained out. The surgeon prescribed another round of antibiotics and said to keep an eye out for signs of infection. She said in a way it's fortunate that it burst; if it hadn't they would have had to drain it and clean it under anesthesia. Lana seems much more comfortable now that it's emptied.

Yikes! Seromas are fairly common, so that's what anyone would have assumed. Hopefully, it will be quick healing from here!

[greytdecals]

I haven't posted in a while but I do come over to GT to read the Osteo thread to check in on all of the Osteo hounds. Today I am posting because I am in need of help or advise for Maggie-Mae. As some of you know, Maggie-Mae is on her way to a 5 year post amp anniversary this year....which, to me, is a true miracle! She has been doing amazingly well for so long with out any kind of special diet or supplements or therapies or medicines etc... She has basically been living life as a greyhound with 3 legs, not as a greyhound with bone cancer(if that makes sense.) Well, this year she turned 11 in May and after that it was like someone pressed a button and overnight she began to show signs of weakness. She started struggling on our walks. Panting heavily without exercise. Being fussy about eating. Losing weight, etc..

 

We had the following done with her to rule some things out:

1. Complete cancer check-up. Lungs were clear, no mets. Blood work was normal. Heart rate good.

2. We had xrays done of her rear hip and leg and everything looked amazingly good.

 

These are the things we have done to try and help out her weakness in that rear leg:

1. gave her Rimadyl for a lengthy time period with no signs of improvement.

2. started her on the Get Up and Go products (Chondroitin, Glucosamine, MSM, Vitamin C and Yucca) It has been over a month now with no signs of improvement....she actually seems worse.

 

So, my question for everyone would be...

 

What are we missing here?? We are straining our brains to figure out what could possibly be causing the severe weakness in her hind leg. We know old age is a factor and also the fact that her one rear leg has been doing the work of 2 for almost 5 years now! Could it be muscle weakness and have nothing to do with bone?

 

What are some things you can suggest or recommend that we can do for her to help the weakness? Hydrotherapy? Acupuncture? Any other supplements?

 

It breaks my heart to see her struggle so much, yet I know we are blessed to have her still with us! She still has that zest for life...her eyes tell me that. But she can't figure out how to make her body do what her mind wants to do.

 

I appreciate any help or advice. Maggie-Mae does too!

[MP_the4pack]

Have your tried a chiropractor or accupuncure?

[NeylasMom]

Could it be LS? Have you seen an orthopedist or neurologist? An x-ray of her spine might give you some help, but an MRI is the only real way to diagnose LS (which I wouldn't recommend necessarily) so a good specialist who knows LS and greyhounds would be best to determine if that's what it is based on physical exam. In an older greyhound with hind end issues, that tends to be my first guess.

 

I would also have her heart checked, just because of the fatigue and panting. There's definitely a risk of heart damage from the chemo for osteo amp pups that can show up down the line. I would want a cardiologist on board to check just given that she's been through chemo. Am thinking your best bet might be an internist at a specialty hospital where they have specialists in all of these areas so taht the internist could do a thorough evaluation and then consult with the appropriate people, rather than paying consult fees at multiple practices.

 

Congrats on the 5 years! That is truly amazing.

Edited August 2, 2013 by NeylasMom

[Victor]

I haven't posted in a while but I do come over to GT to read the Osteo thread to check in on all of the Osteo hounds. Today I am posting because I am in need of help or advise for Maggie-Mae. As some of you know, Maggie-Mae is on her way to a 5 year post amp anniversary this year....which, to me, is a true miracle! She has been doing amazingly well for so long with out any kind of special diet or supplements or therapies or medicines etc... She has basically been living life as a greyhound with 3 legs, not as a greyhound with bone cancer(if that makes sense.)

Almost 5 years post amp is truly a miracle! Way to go, Maggie-Mae!

 

 

Well, this year she turned 11 in May and after that it was like someone pressed a button and overnight she began to show signs of weakness. She started struggling on our walks. Panting heavily without exercise. Being fussy about eating. Losing weight, etc..

 

We had the following done with her to rule some things out:

1. Complete cancer check-up. Lungs were clear, no mets. Blood work was normal. Heart rate good.

2. We had xrays done of her rear hip and leg and everything looked amazingly good.

I wonder if she might be experiencing weakness in her rear leg as a result of trying to compensate for a problem in one of her front legs. Have you had x-rays taken of her front legs recently?

 

Another thing to check might be her spine. Perhaps she's developed lumbosacral stenosis (LS)?

[greytdecals]

Could it be LS? Have you seen an orthopedist or neurologist? An x-ray of her spine might give you some help, but an MRI is the only real way to diagnose LS (which I wouldn't recommend necessarily) so a good specialist who knows LS and greyhounds would be best to determine if that's what it is based on physical exam. In an older greyhound with hind end issues, that tends to be my first guess.

 

I would also have her heart checked, just because of the fatigue and panting. There's definitely a risk of heart damage from the chemo for osteo amp pups that can show up down the line. I would want a cardiologist on board to check just given that she's been through chemo. Am thinking your best bet might be an internist at a specialty hospital where they have specialists in all of these areas so taht the internist could do a thorough evaluation and then consult with the appropriate people, rather than paying consult fees at multiple practices.

 

Congrats on the 5 years! That is truly amazing.

Thanks, Jen! The heart was the next thing on our list to check. LS never even crossed my mind, but it is very possible! See, I am glad I asked!

 

We might need to take her to OSU, but I haven't heard anything new on the greyhound program and what's going on with it.

[tbhounds]

Suzie--I sent you a pm

[greytdecals]

Suzie--I sent you a pm

I did not receive it

[Charlies_Dad]

I second a check of the heart. Our Charlie displayed similar signs albeit a bit different and that is unfortunately when we found the mass near his heart. I hope it's nothing serious for Maggie-Mae as she is truly a miracle pup!

[greytdecals]

Suzie--I sent you a pm

I got it!

[NeylasMom]

OSU is a good idea if you're close. I didn't notice that you're in Ohio initially.

[greytdecals]

OSU is a good idea if you're close. I didn't notice that you're in Ohio initially.

Maggie-Mae had her amp and chemo and all check-ups done at OSU. Of course, that was when Dr. Couto was there. Sure miss not having him around.

I second a check of the heart. Our Charlie displayed similar signs albeit a bit different and that is unfortunately when we found the mass near his heart. I hope it's nothing serious for Maggie-Mae as she is truly a miracle pup!

Her signs/symptoms resemble what our Alan had when a tumor on his heart was discovered. Alan went quickly downhill though. Seems like Maggie-Mae is gradually getting worse.

[krissn333]

I'd also suggest heart studies be done.

 

If everything checks out there, I'd definitely do acupuncture. Hydrotherapy would be awesome too...I don't have direct experience with it as it isn't available in our area. But acupuncture is awesome and has made a big difference for Carrie, who is 14, had a stroke 3 years ago, and likely now had LS on top of it.

[greysmom]

If it was me, I would probably start with a spinal xray to rule out a metastatising (mestastization ??) in the bones there. Dude never had lung mets, but a tumor showed up on his spine and compromised the nerves to his hind end.

 

You don't say what meds she's on, but gabapentin might be worth trying if it's a nerve issue.

[Guest ayladybug]

Hello everyone! I hate to be joining this thread, and I obviously have a lot of reading to do, but I wanted to get my information out there as we have some big decisions to make. Our boy Compass started limping two weeks ago. On Monday he went to a local vet who found a suspicious spot on his right shoulder. I sent the scan to OSU and they said that they were concerned but wanted to see additional scans. Today we took him to the Vetrinary Oncology Services and Research Center in West Chester, PA. While they don't specialize in greyhounds, they are an excellent facility - all cancer care, the only in the Mid-Atlantic. They did find osteo in his right shoulder. I'm writing now from memory, so you'll have to excuse me if I don't get everything right. The doctor said that it was very early, there were really no obvious lesions. It is in the top of his shoulder, so she did not believe that it is an area that will fracture. She is recommending raditation - four treatments, as well as something called pamidronate, which she referred to as like an anti-osteoporosis med - saying that the radition would kill the tomor and the other would hopefully begin to fill it in with new bone.

 

To give some additional background, Compass is almost nine years old. She seemed to be very optimistic about this protocol and his prognosis, but I am still heartbroken. Has anyone had experience with this protocol? I am having a hard time understanding what this will do - is the goal remission? More time? Pain control? Please help me to understand.

 

On another note, I'll still be sending the scans to OSU.

[teri_d]

oh so sorry your first post is this one - others will chime in soon with experience -- but I just wanted to say you'll find friends here - you are doing the exact right thing now. the first post of this thread has lots of info - just remember that YOU and your family are the only ones that know Compass, there are lots of different paths in this forest and you just have to pick the right one for you and your dog.........there is no right or wrong --- hugs as you start down the path of your choice

[Guest yat420]

I'm so sorry that you have to join this club. I'm wishing Compass the best.

[Victor]

Hello everyone! I hate to be joining this thread, and I obviously have a lot of reading to do, but I wanted to get my information out there as we have some big decisions to make. Our boy Compass started limping two weeks ago. On Monday he went to a local vet who found a suspicious spot on his right shoulder. I sent the scan to OSU and they said that they were concerned but wanted to see additional scans. Today we took him to the Vetrinary Oncology Services and Research Center in West Chester, PA. While they don't specialize in greyhounds, they are an excellent facility - all cancer care, the only in the Mid-Atlantic. They did find osteo in his right shoulder. I'm writing now from memory, so you'll have to excuse me if I don't get everything right. The doctor said that it was very early, there were really no obvious lesions. It is in the top of his shoulder, so she did not believe that it is an area that will fracture. She is recommending raditation - four treatments, as well as something called pamidronate, which she referred to as like an anti-osteoporosis med - saying that the radition would kill the tomor and the other would hopefully begin to fill it in with new bone.

 

To give some additional background, Compass is almost nine years old. She seemed to be very optimistic about this protocol and his prognosis, but I am still heartbroken. Has anyone had experience with this protocol? I am having a hard time understanding what this will do - is the goal remission? More time? Pain control? Please help me to understand.

So sorry you have to join this club. I don't have experience with shoulder osteo, but I assume amputation isn't an option? If so, radiation and pamidronate would seem to be the way to go. You might also see if you could do chemotherapy to help prevent the cancer from spreading.

 

From what I understand, the goal with any osteo treatment is more time. Unfortunately there aren't any cures as of yet. Radiation and pamidronate are often used when surgery isn't an option. Radiation helps with pain and pamidronate strengthens the bone to reduce the risk of fracture. Some studies have shown that pamidronate also inhibits tumor growth. Chemotherapy goes after cancer cells that have spread from the primary tumor site.

 

I know how overwhelming this can be when your grey is first diagnosed. Hopefully others can chime in with more advice for shoulder osteo. My thoughts are with you and Compass!

[TwiggysMom]

Suzie, I am so sorry to hear that Maggie-Mae is having a tough time. My first thought (like some others) was LS or some other non-osteo related issue. I thought that after 5 years (even after 4 years, really) that Maggie-Mae would be considered a true osteo survivor - i.e. one that would not have a recurrence.

 

It certainly could be related to general orthopedic issues because of her amp. Underwater treadmill is supposed to be a big help in building up muscle mass and endurance. I think you could certainly also look into acupuncture/massage/chiro.

 

I'd probably do x-rays to rule out any internal issues first, and then go from there. I hope you can find something to make her more comfortable quickly!

 

 

Ayladybug, I am so sorry to hear about Compass! Osteo is such a tough diagnosis because you just never know what the outcome will be, regardless of what treatment options you are using.

 

A Palliative care plan involving pamidronate, radiation and nsaid/tramadol/gabapentin pain med combo can provide a relatively long period with good quality of life. I haven't seen her here for a while, but if you go back through some of the old threads, you will see posts from Snakes whose boy FedX had nearly 18 months on a palliative care treatment plan. I know she also incorporated a number of holistic options in her plan for FedX, but I don't recall what those were. Conversely, there are cases when the cancer is just too aggressive and very little quality post-diagnosis time is obtained.

 

It sounds like Compass is in good hands, and I hope you all have a good long time together still! Please stick around here and let us know how things are going!

[Guest fastcasper]

Hi everyone,

 

Updating Casper's progress. He had his second chemo treatment this past week. We are working hard trying to get him to gain weight. He is not food motivated and seems to have a case of food adversion. On top of that, his phantom pain has kicked in. He is on Gabapentin and amantadine for the pain. It's hard to see him have these episodes of phantom pain. He is resting then yelps and shoots out of the room. This can happen a few times but then he is nervous and stressed for a couple of hours. This can happen a few times a day. Wondering if anyone else has or is experiencing this, if so, any other suggestions??

[krissn333]

I don't have suggestions specifically for the phantom pain...though it could be possible his skin at the amp site is still healing together and when he moves it might feel "pinchy." Also being shaved down, some of them get very irritated as their hair starts to grow back. Coconut oil applied topically helps a lot with that (shaving irritation), and you can even give it to him orally too (1 tsp per 10 lbs. body weight).

 

Recently I've been doing a lot of reading about coconut oil for dogs. I eat it quite frequently and use it sometimes when my psoriasis flares up with dry patches, so I don't know why it never occurred to me to use it for the pups!

[Charlies_Dad]

Ayladybug, I am very sorry to read of Compass's diagnosis. Others have already responded and I'll add my two cents. Unfortunately, there is no 'cure' for Osteo and there are only a few options for you and your boy. Those are: no treatment, just pain meds and life expectancy is usually weeks, palliative care involving pamidronate, radiation, chemo and pain meds can provide 3-6mths however there are some exceptions as Wendy noted (Twiggysmom) and then there is amputation and chemo which can provide 12-14ths (median) with some pups living uch longer, e.g. Maggie-Mae 60mths!, Twiggy 24mths, Santa 24mths+/- and our Charlie, 21mths. The one you choose for your boy is your choice alone and that is what makes this disease so difficult. We are here to help you answer your questions, provide advice as best possible and most importantly support you as you go down this path. Whichever choice you make, you do need to act quickly as Osteo can be very aggressive and very painful. There are a lot more notes at the beginning of this thread and in previous threads of the same name, e.g. Osteo Thread Part I, II, III, etc. As you will see, too many of us have been down this road as well and our heart grieves for every new member and their pup.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Charlies_Dad

[greytdecals]

Suzie, I am so sorry to hear that Maggie-Mae is having a tough time. My first thought (like some others) was LS or some other non-osteo related issue. I thought that after 5 years (even after 4 years, really) that Maggie-Mae would be considered a true osteo survivor - i.e. one that would not have a recurrence.

 

It certainly could be related to general orthopedic issues because of her amp. Underwater treadmill is supposed to be a big help in building up muscle mass and endurance. I think you could certainly also look into acupuncture/massage/chiro.

 

I'd probably do x-rays to rule out any internal issues first, and then go from there. I hope you can find something to make her more comfortable quickly!

 

Thanks, Wendy. I have been in touch with Dr. Couto and he feels that it is a spine issue(non-osteo issue.) We are taking her to our local vet to see what they can do to find out exactly what is wrong and if they can't help then we will take her to OSU to see Dr. Dyce.

 

On a positive note, we switched her food to Iams Senior formula and she is eating better now. She must like the new food! Yay!