No Judgments... Question About Off-Leash Hiking

[Guest AngelPup]

 

 

I know! Thanks to everybody for your advice and input. Very reassuring that I'm not a terrible greyhound-owner.

 

You're definitely not a terrible greyhound owner. There are just differing opinions. Bottom line is you know your dog better than anyone and it's a decision only you can make.

[Guest Waterdog66]

Maybe you already checked into this, but just in case; most national parks do not allow dogs on the hiking trails. I know Rocky Mountain National Park doesn't but haven't looked into Zion and Canyonlands. Just a heads up

 

Yup, I have. Dogs are NOT allowed on any of the Back Country Trails in Canyonlands but are allowed ON-LEASH on the trail from Moab to Island in the Sky. Zion has a couple of dog friendly trails and Canyon De Chelly is very Dog Friendly. (It is a National Monument) I think the big reason why dogs are not allowed in Canyonlands and Zion has to do with the sensitive wildlife and I will happily comply with the rules.

 

I am also keen on checking out the St George area as there is a race I am very interested in doing next year. (Gonna hit the lake and maybe hike some of the run course)

 

But definitely thanks for the heads up

 

[Guest Waterdog66]

 

 

I know! Thanks to everybody for your advice and input. Very reassuring that I'm not a terrible greyhound-owner.

 

 

Pfft.

 

A terrible greyhound owner would not think twice about a decision like this and blindly make decisions with unforeseen consequences.

[silverfish]

 

Everything I've ever read about greyhounds states they should never be let off leash-

 

And yet they were bred for hunting off-lead and in pairs, and are still used this way by the English 'Traveller' community for rabbiting and hunting hares, and various greyhound breeds (salukis, galgos, borzois, lurchers etc) all over the world are, or were, used this way for hunting anything from rabbits to wolves and small deer.

 

I would respectfully suggest that your reading has been somewhat limited.

 

Quite simply, if you're out hunting with dogs (which I have never done, and have no interest in, just as a FYI), you are going to need them to come back to you with their catch. Greyhounds and their cousins have done this for far, far longer than they've been used for racing.

 

I'm not here for an argument, but I think we need to bear in mind that our greyhounds are dogs which have been bred for a task. We have suborned this task into a gambling game, so that modern greyhounds never get the training that their ancestors had - which doesn't mean they can't BE trained. Sure, it's 100% harder after they've been brought up in one particular way, and there are many, many greyhounds who will never make the adjustment. That's where common sense comes in: if you have a dog who doesn't seem capable of learning a solid recall, and doesn't have the right temperament, you don't let them off-lead outside a fenced area. However, a small percentage of our ex-racers are perfectly capable of this, and I think it's wrong to make the owners of such animals feel guilty or pressured into reducing their dogs' quality of life.

 

I agree with this: if in doubt, don't. In other words, if your dog is unreliable, or if you don't have safe off-lead areas to walk, don't. If you have a particularly vulnerable dog, don't. If you have signed a legal contract which forbids it, don't. Etc.

[Batmom]

In most cases, the "quality of life" thing is in the mind/practices of the owner and doesn't have much to do with which particular activities the dog participates in.

 

Leash vs. off-leash isn't just a greyhound thing. Over the years I haven't found a *need* to off-leash anybody outside a fenced area, unless s/he was doing a job that required it.

[krissy]

In most cases, the "quality of life" thing is in the mind/practices of the owner and doesn't have much to do with which particular activities the dog participates in.

 

Leash vs. off-leash isn't just a greyhound thing. Over the years I haven't found a *need* to off-leash anybody outside a fenced area, unless s/he was doing a job that required it.

 

It's all shades of grey really. I mean, how do you define whether the dog needs to be doing said job, for example? Summit does not NEED to do agility. I do not, however, think it is all in my head that he enjoys it significantly. He is off leash for this activity inside of a ring with a fence that he could easily jump. How high does a fence need to be to be considered safe enough for a greyhound (or any dog for that matter)? I have a 5.5 foot fence at home that I doubt either dog would try to jump, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility. Baseball diamonds on the other hand usually have 4 foot fences. If they wanted to I suspect my dogs could jump it. Yet an off leash fun run with a bunch of greyhounds at that location would be acceptable to most people in the greyhound community. Which is very interesting to me.

 

I'm not here for an argument, but I think we need to bear in mind that our greyhounds are dogs which have been bred for a task. We have suborned this task into a gambling game, so that modern greyhounds never get the training that their ancestors had - which doesn't mean they can't BE trained. Sure, it's 100% harder after they've been brought up in one particular way, and there are many, many greyhounds who will never make the adjustment. That's where common sense comes in: if you have a dog who doesn't seem capable of learning a solid recall, and doesn't have the right temperament, you don't let them off-lead outside a fenced area. However, a small percentage of our ex-racers are perfectly capable of this, and I think it's wrong to make the owners of such animals feel guilty or pressured into reducing their dogs' quality of life.

 

I agree with this: if in doubt, don't. In other words, if your dog is unreliable, or if you don't have safe off-lead areas to walk, don't. If you have a particularly vulnerable dog, don't. If you have signed a legal contract which forbids it, don't. Etc.

 

Absolutely!

[Yamaha_gurl]

 

And yet they were bred for hunting off-lead and in pairs, and are still used this way by the English 'Traveller' community for rabbiting and hunting hares, and various greyhound breeds (salukis, galgos, borzois, lurchers etc) all over the world are, or were, used this way for hunting anything from rabbits to wolves and small deer.

 

I would respectfully suggest that your reading has been somewhat limited.

 

Quite simply, if you're out hunting with dogs (which I have never done, and have no interest in, just as a FYI), you are going to need them to come back to you with their catch. Greyhounds and their cousins have done this for far, far longer than they've been used for racing.

 

I'm not here for an argument, but I think we need to bear in mind that our greyhounds are dogs which have been bred for a task. We have suborned this task into a gambling game, so that modern greyhounds never get the training that their ancestors had - which doesn't mean they can't BE trained. Sure, it's 100% harder after they've been brought up in one particular way, and there are many, many greyhounds who will never make the adjustment. That's where common sense comes in: if you have a dog who doesn't seem capable of learning a solid recall, and doesn't have the right temperament, you don't let them off-lead outside a fenced area. However, a small percentage of our ex-racers are perfectly capable of this, and I think it's wrong to make the owners of such animals feel guilty or pressured into reducing their dogs' quality of life.

 

I agree with this: if in doubt, don't. In other words, if your dog is unreliable, or if you don't have safe off-lead areas to walk, don't. If you have a particularly vulnerable dog, don't. If you have signed a legal contract which forbids it, don't. Etc.

 

Wow...how I agree with everything you just wrote. And it is true, about how greyhounds were used for coursing, they HAD to learn how to come back.

I also think "off leash rules" depend on where you live. I have facebook friends from all over the world, there are sooo many in Europe that let their dogs off leash...pure joy and happiness on those dogs faces!

[Batmom]

 

It's all shades of grey really. I mean, how do you define whether the dog needs to be doing said job, for example?

 

That's a whole 'nother question.

 

I was referring to the case that a dog needs to be off leash to herd sheep, for example, or to lure course. Whether dogs need to herd sheep or lure course isn't in the scope of the original post.

[NeylasMom]

I know many of you hike off-leash with your hounds (Krissy, WhiteWave... I hope you guys can chime in here). I just want to know... how did you know they were ready? And how long before you stopped feeling like a nervous wreck? By the way, I'm just talking about Henry, not Truman because I know for certain he can't be trusted yet. But if I continue to allow Henry to hike off-leash, are there any precautions I should take? I carry their recall whistle for emergencies anyway. But is there any type of other training I should consider? Am I overthinking this?

Going to throw out some things in no particular order in response to your specific questions.

• You should of course start off by doing a ton of recall training in fenced areas, using long lines, on leashed walks, etc. rewarding both for a dog checking in with you on his own and also coming when called (then immediately being told "go play" and letting him return to play - if you need to end the off leash time, just matter of factly leash him up at some point without calling him first).
• Then do this training in the midst of as many distractions as you can, paying special attention to the things that motivate your dog (prey, other dogs, people, screaming children , etc.).
• If you want to off lead, of course at some point, you just have to venture into the big bad world of actually off leash. My suggestion when you do is to of course do it only when his recall is 100% in fenced situations and then to start in places you consider very safe (if you have small parks, wildlife refuges, etc. that are away from traffic and fenced (on a larger scale) with hiking trails that's a nice option) and at times when there aren't likely to be many distractions. Practice your recalls over and over. Over time, as you feel confident, you can go at times where there's more likely to be distractors.
• Always stay alert! If you see something that's likely to be a distraction, leash him and give lots of rewards for him giving you his attention rather than focusing on the distraction or if you feel pretty confident that he won't go toward/after it, give your recall cue early before he gets too focused, then reward reward reward. As you build confidence that you can call him off of a distraction, let him start toward it, but call him immediately. Gradually lengthen how interested or focused you allow him to get before calling him.
• Use HIGH value rewards that your dog only gets when he's off leash. Think MEAT - steak scraps, canned chicken. Get creative, test things out at home and see what he goes bonkers for. Cat treats are often higher value in my house. Switch up the treats often so your dog doesn't get bored.
• Consider whether you will allow your dog to be out of sight when off leash or not. I personally am not comfortable with that for various reasons, the main one being if the dog does get injured running through teh woods, encounter a dangerous animal, etc. I want to know immediately and be able to see him and call him back or get to him. I can't do that if I can't see him. So when I train for off lead, the rules are you stay on the trails unless I go off of the trail with you or give you the okay to go off the trail (and even then, you stay in sight).
• Remember the Premack principle. Sometimes the highest value reward is letting the dog have what it really wants, the thing it generally shouldn't have. So if he wants to chase a squirrel, but comes when you call him, let his reward be chasing the squirrel by giving a "go play" or "go get it" release cue. Do this when it's safe to do so, like when the squirrel has gone up a nearby tree and you know your dog will just run to the tree and then end up staring up into the leaves like a doofus. This can be an INCREDIBLY powerful motivator. It did wonders for us concerning Zuri's desire to eat deer poop. I honestly couldn't bring treats with us that were higher value than deer poop, it was the one instance where he would sometimes ignore me, but a few times using the Premack principle and I now have no issues calling him off a pile of poop.
• Do some special set ups with really high value rewards. This is one of my absolute favorites and I sadly can't remember now where I got the idea. Get something INCREDIBLY high value that your dog rarely or never gets (last time I did this I used a sausage mcgriddle from McDonalds ) and leaving your dogs in the car if it's safe to do so or with someone else, head down teh trail you'll be taking and put the reward up in a tree where your dog won't see/smell it. Then take your normal hike and when you get to the place where the treat is, make sure you're in a situation where your dog will come if you call and let him go. While your dog is off frolicking, get the treat down and get it ready, then give your recall cue. When he responds perfectly (assuming he's going to because you've done so much training of course ) reward him with the treat. The point of hiding it ahead of time is if you have it on you, he'll know and potentially be more inclined to respond (in a sense you'd be luring him) versus this situation where your dog realizes that coming when called means ridiculous treats coudl just suddently rain from the sky. Highly reinforcing if you set it up properly.
• Another similar exercise - when your dog is off lead (you can do this in a large fenced area at first as well) play a game of keep away where you're what's being kept away. When he's distracted, high tail it in another direction. When he chases you, reward him then try to get away. Reward him only when he's right in a heel position. Keep trying to make it more challenging for him to get in position and then reward when he does. It's AMAZING how quickly you become the most interesting thing around when you play this game.
• Consider putting a bell on his collar, especially initially when you're still building up your confidence. If he does get lost, the bell will be useful in finding him. I like these bear bells because they have a magnetic silencer you can easily slip on and off so you don't have to constantly put it on and take it off the collar. You just slip the silencer on when he's on lead.
• Of course carry a squawker if he will respond to it. Don't use it unless it's an emergency so it doesn't lose its appeal.
• ETA: See if any PR trainers in your area offer a recall class. It will present a lot more opportunities for practicing your recalls with high levels of distraction. Pat Miller actually offers one as a 6 or 8 week course at her facility in Hagerstown. I can't wait for her to offer the next one so I can get Skye enrolled!

 

I hope there's something useful in there.

In most cases, the "quality of life" thing is in the mind/practices of the owner and doesn't have much to do with which particular activities the dog participates in.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here? There is no doubt in my mind that giving my dogs opportunities to explore and run off lead improves their quality of life.

Edited June 7, 2013 by NeylasMom

[Guest AngelPup]

 

I would respectfully suggest that your reading has been somewhat limited.

 

 

Oh, if you only NEW how much I've researched this breed via books, websites, speaking with grey 'parents,' and several adoption groups..... it verged on the side of obsession.

 

Granted, I don't have a lot of experience WITH greyhounds, as I've only had Brady for a little less than a month, but I can't see myself ever letting him run loose unless I was absolutely certain it was a secure area (meaning completely fenced or a deserted island). But that's me and my decision. I'm kind of anal and tend to 'go by the rules,' so I think it has more to do with that than anything. Plus, I don't have a great track record when I did sway from the rules--something ALWAYS happened. I'd be a nervous wreck, which would defeat the purpose of a fun walk with my pooch.

[KickReturn]

Many good points here. And all owners should read and carefully ponder what 3greytjoys has written on page two of this thread. If any of the gloom and doom scenarios seem like a reasonable possibility or makes you uncomfortable than you have your answer.

 

As the owner of a nearly exclusively off-leash Greyhound I realize I sound completely hypocritical. Those of you who have seen posts of my Hester’s adventures, have probably noticed that he is never on a leash. But Hester is one of those dogs that is like the duckling that hatches and imprints/bonds to the first thing it sees – in this case me. I have yet to meet another Grey with the same level of obsession over its person and sensibility when making decisions for himself.

 

My contribution to this topic will be to suggest that in the decision to let a Grey off leash, the character of the dog is the most important factor, followed by the safety of the environment, with training further down the list. Ultimately the time will come when the dog does not or cannot respond to your training and it is then that you will have to count on its own character and decision making instead of yours.

 

If you are considering the off leash experience, please ponder some of the following questions: (I realize most of these questions can only be answered once the dog is observed off leash, so some safe experimentation is required.)

 

Does your dog always stay on a trail? Even if it sees a squirrel bolt into the woods?

Does your dog refuse to let you out of its sight?

Is your dog sensible? Will he refuse to run if the ground is uneven or the surface to hard, rocky, slippery, full of sticks, bushes, trees?

Does he refuse to run on a paved surface?

Can you call your dog out of mid-run with other Greyhounds?

Can you call your dog out of a rush toward a rabbit or squirrel?

Is your dog content to ignore a rabbit or squirrel?

Does he prefer the sidewalk to the road? The edge of a lawn to the sidewalk?

 

I believe character is the issue from my experience with Hester. I can answer yes to all of the above questions and Hester has received essentially zero training other than a bit of recall early on. It’s him, not me that makes the difference.

 

To answer the original question, when do you know if your dog can handle being off leash, my advice is simply to find a huge but secure area (beaches are good but don’t offer a variety of terrain) and watch your dogs behaviour. If it never leaves your side or seems to worry if it gets too far away from you, you may have an off leash candidate. When you dog does run, does it run around you? Ends its runs at your side? These are also things to consider.

[NeylasMom]

My contribution to this topic will be to suggest that in the decision to let a Grey off leash, the character of the dog is the most important factor, followed by the safety of the environment, with training further down the list. Ultimately the time will come when the dog does not or cannot respond to your training and it is then that you will have to count on its own character and decision making instead of yours.

No, the important factors are instinct/drive and training. How strong are your dog's instincts/drive toward a particular thing (prey, dog, etc.) that might make off leading a dangerous situation and how much effort are you willing to put in to train a solid recall and whether you have the ability to do so. It's a simple equation with both factors on a sliding scale. Can you overcome the former with the latter? If you can, you have a winning situation. If you can't, you're creating potential for something negative to happen. How easy it is depends on where on the sliding scale each lies.

Edited June 7, 2013 by NeylasMom

[Guest Greyt_dog_lover]

I hope Hester never proves you wrong...

[silverfish]

I hope Hester never proves you wrong...

 

I had a greyhound like Hester, and he never did. Like Hester, he seemed to have 'imprinted' on me, and simply did not want to get himself lost.

 

He was off lead nearly every day of his life with us in unfenced areas. He never got more than a small cut while out (his one serious injury occurred inside the house, slipping on the floor). He never ran out of an open door, never got hit by a car, never attacked a small dog (though he did put one in its place once for chasing him up the road nipping at his heels while I was walking him on the lead), or got attacked by another dog, and he was frightened of cats. We used to walk him sometimes on an extending lead, and if it was dropped, he'd just stand and wait for you to pick it up - he never, ever bolted.

 

He got out through our old fence once, into our neighbour's garden. He walked up their driveway and into ours, and barked at the front door to be let in.

You can get greyhounds like this. They are rare, but they do exist.

 

You just have to know your particular dog.

[KickReturn]

No, the important factors are instinct/drive and training. How strong are your dog's instincts/drive toward a particular thing (prey, dog, etc.) that might make off leading a dangerous situation and how much effort are you willing to put in to train a solid recall and whether you have the ability to do so. It's a simple equation with both factors on a sliding scale. Can you overcome the former with the latter? If you can, you have a winning situation. If you can't, you're creating potential for something negative to happen. How easy it is depends on where on the sliding scale each lies.

 

I don't think we disagree - When I use the term character I mean exactly instinct and drive. It is his character that causes him to respond to me instantly and reliably. Not because I am a masterful trainer. I have not taught him what a toss of my head means. I just adopted that body language when I noticed him do it to signal a preference of direction. If I toss my head left, he goes left, right and he goes right. Same with a wave of the hand or the various grunts I use to express approval or disapproval. He simply gets it and responding seems to be his priority. Interestingly if something makes me anxious, he picks up on it and clings even closer.

 

At a recent Grey picnic a number of verteran Grey owners were shocked when I called him out of a full chase involving at least a dozen dogs by simply uttering his name. He spent the rest of the picnic at a perfect heel whenever I moved. Yesterday he chose to cross a street to avoid a bunny on a lawn because I gave a gentle uh uh when he spotted it. It is just him and I recognize he is very unusual. When I am responsible for other Greys they are always always leashed. I have yet to meet another Grey I would even think about trusting in the same way. I will try to get some video of him walking past rabbits and deer and post.

Edited June 7, 2013 by KickReturn

[grey14me]

Greyhound grps are also so communicative, that you could essentially be blacklisted by many grps on heresay. I don't feel that's right, as quite frankly, I have never heard of a lost grey/injured grey that was due to being off leash.

 

 

I don't think many people who let their greys off leash are going to come on here and tell people that they were lost or injured because of it. I also wouldn't be surprised if many that are lost are actually lost this way as opposed to accidental escape. No one is going to say they lost their grey because they were inattentive or careless and then expect sympathy or help.

[Guest PiagetsMom]

 

I don't think many people who let their greys off leash are going to come on here and tell people that they were lost or injured because of it. I also wouldn't be surprised if many that are lost are actually lost this way as opposed to accidental escape. No one is going to say they lost their grey because they were inattentive or careless and then expect sympathy or help.

 

I imagine that most greys are lost by accidental inattentiveness......gates/doors left open, etc. However, while reading this thread I have found myself wondering how many people would actually admit that their greyhound was off-leash and lost when calling a group for help in finding their pup......probably not many.

[Batmom]

Some have admitted the dog was off-leash from car to house or just let out in unfenced yard to do his/her business ......

 

 

It sounds like for Hester, his safe place is his person, and that would make him more reliable off-leash than most.

[grey14me]

 

I imagine that most greys are lost by accidental inattentiveness......gates/doors left open, etc. However, while reading this thread I have found myself wondering how many people would actually admit that their greyhound was off-leash and lost when calling a group for help in finding their pup......probably not many.

 

Yes, that's what I was trying to get across.

[KickReturn]

Some have admitted the dog was off-leash from car to house or just let out in unfenced yard to do his/her business ......

 

 

It sounds like for Hester, his safe place is his person, and that would make him more reliable off-leash than most.

 

My guess is the majority of lost Greys are the result of an open door or gate, or some slip their collars. Any Grey that a responsible owner would even consider having off leash in an unfenced area is the sort of dog who would approach the first people or dogs that it sees. The dog would not be "lost" for very long. A call for help from the adoption orgs would not likely be necessary.

 

Despite Hester's overiding desire to be with me, I am not naive, there is always some risk and he could always do something uncharacteristic. I can say In my travels with him he has demonstrated off leash behaviour and reliability on a par with well trained examples of any other breed. But hey, you can even have a problem with your perfectly trained Border Collie. There is no guarantee and I would urge extreme caution and discourage most owners from even considering the off leash thing.

[jenners]

As was stated by a previous poster "No flames and no judgement........just a question. When you adopted your dog, did you sign an agreement with the adoption agency stating that you would never let them off leash ?'

 

'Cause if you did, is it OK to break that promise? I personally don't think so. If the adoption group asks for that promise of their adopters, and they've entrusted you with one of the dogs they transported, cared for, fostered, whatever, then I think they are owed at least the respect of a promise kept.

 

Jennie

[KickReturn]

As was stated by a previous poster "No flames and no judgement........just a question. When you adopted your dog, did you sign an agreement with the adoption agency stating that you would never let them off leash ?'

 

'Cause if you did, is it OK to break that promise? I personally don't think so. If the adoption group asks for that promise of their adopters, and they've entrusted you with one of the dogs they transported, cared for, fostered, whatever, then I think they are owed at least the respect of a promise kept.

 

Jennie

 

 

My agreement included no such clause that I recall. Not sure what I would do if it did. I prefer to honour all my agreements but one must be reasonable. With 99.9 percent of dogs it wouldn't be an issue. With Hester I believe I am doing what is best for him all things considered including off leash risk. He is having an unbelievably happy life and his off leash adventures are a big part of it. One day I'll write about the day he "asked" to walk without his leash. Sometimes I really think he is a man inside a dog suit.

 

And I don't mind being judged or flamed, It's kind of fun.

Edited June 8, 2013 by KickReturn

[Guest kkaiser104]

 

I was wondering if that made a difference. Thanks!

 

Tried to send you a message, but I think your inbox is full!

Edited June 8, 2013 by kkaiser104

[KickReturn]

OK so here is some video. But first a disclaimer. I live in an area with very little traffic that moves very slowly. The place and time have been chosen carefully. Remember I am not a professional, to the extent that I have any method, I just made it up – please don’t try this at home. Conditions were difficult - too windy, which made it difficult for me to hear his movements so I had to keep looking back.

 

The first is a demonstration of Hester’s attachment and simple preference to be close to me. He did this exact thing the first time I ever let him off leash. It was on a huge, secure beach with dozens of dogs and even another Greyhound running around. He does this in the house also. Absolutely no training to reinforce this behaviour

 

Next we have Hester on the sidewalk. Note that he hugs the edge away from the road. No deer or rabbits on this walk but we normally pass something on each walk and the behaviour doesn’t change. He will look at them and then look away. The animals do not flee. Occasionally the deer will follow us home which is downright strange. Notice two things; when he falls slightly behind he breaks into a trot to catch up and when he does stray toward the road he moves back when a car approaches. This also has not been trained. Note as well that before we cross the road I turn and he places his head in my hand for a chin rub. No treat is given. Whenever I turn to face him he always slows down and comes to me in this way with no other command. Whenever we come to a cross road he immediately slows down and looks for his chin rub. We always cross roads in a trot to give a sense of urgency.

 

And finally recall. With his second favorite person (my wife) filming from up the street, Hester knew something was up. He got a bit frisky and started to scamper toward my wife. I called – his response is impressive despite the fact he is excited to run to my wife. I reward with a treat. I often (but not always) reward with a treat when recall involves him breaking off some other activity. There was initial recall training involving treats but now it's only used when needed.

 

If your Greyhound behaves like this than maybe under the right circumstances being off leash would enhance their life.

 

And last I would like to apologize to the OP for the total thread hijack

Edited June 8, 2013 by KickReturn

[silverfish]

Those videos are very impressive! That is exactly what Jim was like - even to the point where I could call him back from running to his second favourite person (DH).

 

I used to walk Jim loose up a very, very quiet road into the village after our daily off lead field walk, and up to the first junction, where there was a main road. Our village is much busier than your area though, so I used to put him on the lead there. All of our other off-lead dogs have been ON lead anywhere near a road, because while they were trustworthy, they could occasionally be spooked to the point where they'd jump sideways a yard or two before returning - they wouldn't bolt, but a simple jump sideways can spell disaster when on a narrow pavement and traffic is passing.

 

Is this hi-jacking? I'm not sure it is, because the OP wanted some input into having Henry off lead when hiking. I think it can be useful to read of other people's off-lead experiences and thoughts.

 

The fact that there are greyhounds like Hester and Jim is - I believe - important to know, because it sounds as if Henry could be another such greyhound. Is it fair to keep silent when we too have (or in my case, have had) dogs like this and the OP is asking for input? To my mind, not to give this information implies that everyone here agrees 100% that no greyhound should ever be allowed off-lead in an unfenced area, no matter what their character or the circumstances, and that would be wrong. At least two of us in this thread have had this type of unusual greyhound, and several others have (or have had) good off-lead experiences more in line with the type of experience I've had with my other off-leaders where a certain amount of caution is needed: they are fine in a rural setting where there are no particular dangers, but you wouldn't dream of letting them free near (for example) traffic of any kind.

 

If the OP considers this a hi-jack, my apologies. I probably won't post again, unless someone asks a question.