I Sure Could Use Some Advice - Twilight Months: Geriatric Dental V Fir

[IndyandHollyluv]

Hi there. I'm VERY, VERY conflicted. I sure would appreciate a few experienced geriatric hound owner opinions -- meaning what would YOU do if it was your sweet old houndie??

Last April, I adopted a 12-1/2 yr old female grey, Lucy (meaning my history with her is limited). Before I adopted her, she had a dental in January 2012. She is a VERY (emotionally) sensitive girl. History of potty-ing in her original home after the loss of her male greyhound rooommate.

She was a WRECK throughout the fireworks season last year. Pottied in the house; wouldn't go outside; too scary. She has continued to pee in the house; no appreciable back issues - although there may be some neurological deficit. I have a pet sitter who visits on my work days but Lucy continues to pee in the house -- sometimes on pee pads, usually not.

Here is the issue: her remaining teeth have transitioned from nasty to ROTTEN. In particular, she really needs to have an upper pre-molar extracted - and possibly more.

Took her in for lab work about two weeks ago -- Lucy's blood work and urinalysis were okay (for a 13-1/2 yr old Greyhound). Vet cleared her for dental and take-off (and I have a very compassionate vet). However, Lucy was a WRECK for five days after the blood work visit.

Lucy is 13 - 1/2 yrs old. So in light of the fact that she is emotionally fragile and pees in the house and will continue to do so - particularly during fireworks season ... do I subject her to an extensive dental (probably close to $1000) or skip the dental and say goodbye before the fireworks -- which typically start in June and run well into August??

It breaks my heart to leave those rotten, painful teeth in her mouth -- but in a few months I also don't want to subject her to another 4th of July season. How can I best help this old girl??? Do you think euthanasia would be the kindest, most benevolent act?? I'm struggling. What would you do???

Thank you so very much.

[Jenbo]

I can actually feel your concern and conflict in your post, it brought tears to my eyes. Of course you want her healthy and happy, as much as she is able right now. I would be conflicted too. What does your vet recommend?

[Guest PhillyPups]

I so feel your pain. I am on a day to day basis with my beloved MoeMoeFancyPants. I am washing about 3 or 4 bed covers a day (I lined all the bed innards in contractors bags) however, Moe's eyes are bright and she is enjoying life to the utmost. Her back end goes down, she picks herself up and trots over for pets. I have no advice, just letting you know you are not alone here. On a side note, Moe will be 14 on February 4, and has been with me since she was 10, and they have been fabulous years, she has taught me so much and the bond and love is so strong with my baby girl.

[macoduck]

If she was younger my opinion would be different.

Let her enjoy life now. No dental. Improving her teeth would not alleviate her fears of fireworks and the vet's office. If possible, ask your vet to help her cross when the time seems right to you that it it is the right time for her. No matter what your decision, it's obvious how much you love her and care for her comfort.

[Guest 2dogs4cats]

I have helped 3 cross the bridge. I wouldn't do the dental. Hugs. Such a tough decision.

[Batmom]

If her teeth are rotten, she is in pain. If the rest of her is in reasonable condition, I would get that taken care of. Work with the vet's office to minimize the amount of time she is there, and perhaps premedicate her before you take her in.

 

Hugs and best wishes for you and your girl.

[JJNg]

What is her overall health status? Are you set on euthanizing her before firework season this year? As one of my vet instructors said, "age is not a disease." And anxiety can be treated and managed. How much you want to do, and how much money you are willing and able to spend are personal decisions that no one can decide for you. But if you want to help her, there are options available.

 

I agree with Batmom that if she is in reasonably good overall health, she could benefit greatly from getting her teeth taken care of. And you can help minimize her anxiety with medication and how the visit is handled. You mentioned that she was "a WRECK for five days after the blood work visit". What exactly was she doing, and how did you respond to her? What did you do to try to help her recover?

 

Regarding her firework phobia, have you considered medication and calming tools to help her through it this season? At her age, anything could happen between now and then, and there are no guarantees, but there are things you can do to help her out. You know her best, and you're the only one who can decide what is appropriate for your situation. Have you discussed this with your vet?

[KF_in_Georgia]

Is your girl thunder-phobic? If not, you can play a thunder-and-rain CD loudly and it will mask the fireworks noises much better than loud music ever could. The fireworks blend in and become part of the thunderclaps on the CD.

[silverfish]

What is her overall health status? Are you set on euthanizing her before firework season this year? As one of my vet instructors said, "age is not a disease." And anxiety can be treated and managed. How much you want to do, and how much money you are willing and able to spend are personal decisions that no one can decide for you. But if you want to help her, there are options available.

 

I agree with Batmom that if she is in reasonably good overall health, she could benefit greatly from getting her teeth taken care of. And you can help minimize her anxiety with medication and how the visit is handled. You mentioned that she was "a WRECK for five days after the blood work visit". What exactly was she doing, and how did you respond to her? What did you do to try to help her recover?

 

Regarding her firework phobia, have you considered medication and calming tools to help her through it this season? At her age, anything could happen between now and then, and there are no guarantees, but there are things you can do to help her out. You know her best, and you're the only one who can decide what is appropriate for your situation. Have you discussed this with your vet?

 

I'm with Jey and Jennifer.

 

I could not say goodbye to an oldie simply because I didn't want to go through the trauma of a dental. That's blunt, but it's the way I feel, personally. Everybody's decision is personal, and I do very much understand your conflict, but you asked 'what would you do?' and that's my point of view.

 

If she is in otherwise good health and the vet is happy to anaesthetise her, I'd do it. She has to be in pain and discomfort on a daily basis (remember, dogs are very good at masking pain), and she has bacteria in her mouth which are almost certainly beginning to poison her system. Worst case scenario, she dies on the table - well, you're saying the alternative is to put her to sleep before firework season (whenever that is where you are, here it's mostly November and New Year so that would be too long to make her wait with rotten teeth)? So what are you losing? You will have tried to help her.

 

If she comes through - and she probably will - she'll have a few days of misery, then a week of mild discomfort, then you would be surprised at what a difference the loss of a few manky teeth can make to the overall wellbeing and attitude of a dog. Jeffie is always going to be a slightly bewildered old soul who is frightened of his own shadow at times, but that is a HUGE improvement to the way he was before we dealt with his dental issues. He is a much, much happier dog.

 

As to the peeing issue; have you tried plugging in an Adaptil unit or two? We had a grey who began anxiety peeing in the house and got worse as he got older. The Adaptil (DAP in those days) worked absolute magic with him. We went from pee in the lounge every single night, to perhaps once every three weeks, which was totally manageable to me.

 

Good luck!

 

I've come back to edit this because reading it again it seems as if I agree with the decision to put her to sleep before firework season and I don't. There is a lot you can do to help her through it, and even if she is miserable, it's a short period. I've had two dogs who were petrified, and here, fireworks can be let off a couple of weeks either side of 'the day'. Why would you put a family member down due to extreme fear of one or two days in the year? JMO.

Edited January 23, 2013 by silverfish

[Walliered]

Get the teeth fixed and give her drugs during firework season.

[TheFullHouse]

I have a senior girl who is going in for a dental next week. She just had her yearly check up and shook the entire time we were at the vet but stopped the minute we left. They know how she is and they work with her to make her more comfortable. She is thunder phobic and hates fireworks but I have meds that I can give her if she gets bad. She's happy and healthy and I couldn't put her down during the short time we have storms or fire works but that is just me. It's a personal decision we all have to make at one time or another.

[MP_the4pack]

My 15.5 yr old was in very good shape up til 2 weeks before she left for the Bridge. If Lucy is fairly healthy, her life shouldn't end because of fear from one day a year.. 4th of July is one day. Ask the vet to knock her out if need be. Or go take her somewhere for the day and evening. A mini vacation.

 

And I would get her the dental. She is in pain.

[Guest twogreytkids]

I would definitely go for the dental, if she is in otherwise good health.

 

As for fireworks season, there are so many drugs available that would keep her calm, that I would never put one of my hounds down.

 

I've been always of the opinion that my hound will let me know when it is their time. I've been through it four times, and I think that I can safely say that I did it because I had no other choice and they told me that it was their time.

[4My2Greys]

I'm not sure where your located, but prices of dentals can differ greatly from one area to another. If cost is an issue, which I do understand, is it possible for you to travel somewhere the cost is not so prohibitive to get it done?

[silverfish]

I've edited my previous answer to this because it was ambiguous and I hadn't properly answered the apparent decision to put her to sleep before the firework season. Just wanted to set the record straight on my feelings about that.

[IndyandHollyluv]

Okay, I will try this again. I composed a reply earlier but it apparently fell into a black hole and then I received server error messages for awhile. Sigh.

 

Thank you all for your comments, suggestions, and sharing your experiences. In answer to some of your questions:

 

Overall, Lucy seems to be in pretty good health. She is on a kidney diet but recent blood work indicates her values are holding steady. I have a wonderful vet and he is okay with a dental. I absolutely adore the vet tech who performs the dentals – so no concerns there. My vet caps dentals at $1000. I recently took my rescued mixed breed in for a dental (one extraction and extensive scaling due to heavy plaque) and the cost was almost $600 (in addition to pre-dental blood work). Oh, Lucy shakes like a leaf at the vet. Tail between the legs. I had a hound who was very social and enjoyed going to the vet! Lucy does not.

 

Lucy is noise and storm phobic. Her history of behavioral peeing and pooping began years ago in her original home. Owner took her for behavioral consult and she was started on psych meds, a DAP collar, etc. So pottying in the house is deeply ingrained at this point. However, I do feel there is also some age-related neurological deficit at this point. She can't always "hold it" a long time like a younger dog.

 

Fireworks and storms just add to her stress load. Last year, the fireworks in my neighborhood started in June and were regularly going off into August. I live in Michigan and the list of “legal” fireworks was expanded to included bigger, badder, and noisier fireworks. So not just one or two days. Lucy hid in the bedroom much of the summer. Often didn’t want to eat. Broke my heart to see her so blue. I continued with DAP collars, tried “Composure” treats, essential oil treatments, and finally Xanax on a few occasions but it made her throw up. She would only potty outside in the early morning hours (meaning she would either hold it or potty inside when I wasn’t looking). She also seemed very depressed.

 

In the fall (when the world was quiet once again), I discontinued all “calming” therapies – and within days she seemed brighter and engaged. I feel all those well-meaning products turned her into a zombie dog. Again what works for one dog may not work for another.

 

And I have lost four hounds over the past few years to a specific medical dx. Lucy is different in that regard – just age-related and behavioral issues. And while I have always taken my hounds for annual dentals – Lucy is the oldest. I’m sure you understand my concern.

 

Thanks again – I am going to re-read all your posts. Right now I’m leaning toward a dental as I don’t want her to suffer the pain of terrible teeth – and it’s not her time to go yet. Every dog brings a unique set of challenges - that is why I asked for advice. Thanks!

Edited January 23, 2013 by IndyandHollyluv

[silverfish]

I found the DAP collar to be fairly useless. In my opinion, you need the plug in diffusers and you need to read the square footage that each one will cover very carefully. Plug in two or three if necessary. In the end, you're right, it will work for some dogs and not for others, but it's definitely worth a try, doing it properly.

 

Yes, we get those 'bigger, badder' fireworks here. It sounds as if WW2 is going on for a couple of weeks in November, and again for New Year. Unfortunately, here in England fireworks are also used at Diwali, and various other ethnic celebrations including - for some cultures - weddings. You get the picture. I do understand about ongoing problems and I've been known to swear vociferously about the type of fireworks people are allowed to buy, and the fact that they're allowed pretty much any time of the year - which is not actually legal.

 

Poor Lucy. She's had a tough life, huh? Jim (one of my terrified-of-fireworks-and-thunderstorms dogs) came from a life with gypsies. He was abandoned, three-quarters bald from mange, in a wood, in November with snow on the ground, and was rail-thin, and covered in scars, including broken teeth and a bit missing from his tongue. Years later, we took him into a local wood when (unknown to us) gypsies were camped there. Jim would not leave the car park. He knew they were there and wanted nothing to do with them. It was one of his favourite off-lead walking spots but he wouldn't budge. Just saying, I do understand about terrified dogs with a history. Jim was the dog for whom the DAP worked like magic, but it was the plug-in type. The collar didn't help.

[Blaidd49]

I have seen the amazing difference a dental has made to a fifteen year-old dog. Risky yes but I was there when she went under and there when she came round.

If you have a calming influence on your girl, you might request this concession.

[JJNg]

I continued with DAP collars, tried “Composure” treats, essential oil treatments, and finally Xanax on a few occasions but it made her throw up. She would only potty outside in the early morning hours (meaning she would either hold it or potty inside when I wasn’t looking). She also seemed very depressed.

I find that most of the natural/herbal calming supplements aren't very effective for severe cases. With a dog who gets severely stressed, I'd go with stronger anti-anxiety drugs. You might consider starting her on a daily medication like Prozac about a month or two before you expect fireworks to start. With her other anxiety issues, you may find that it helps her overall too. Once firework season starts, I'd also add in a more immediate-acting anxiety med every evening. If she doesn't respond well to Xanax (although vomiting is unusual), Valium or trazodone might work better.

[Guest Liz_in_PA]

I would be very frustrated by the peeing in the house. I already have one that insists on marking anything new in the house. That doesn't make for happiness for the people.

PhillyPat says Moe is happy. Can you say that about Lucy?

 

$1,000 is a lot of money. And this probably sounds awful, but I'd rather put $1,000 into an 8 year old versus a 13 1/2 year old.

[IndyandHollyluv]

I would be very frustrated by the peeing in the house. I already have one that insists on marking anything new in the house. That doesn't make for happiness for the people.

PhillyPat says Moe is happy. Can you say that about Lucy?

 

$1,000 is a lot of money. And this probably sounds awful, but I'd rather put $1,000 into an 8 year old versus a 13 1/2 year old.

Liz - you are absolutely spot on. The peeing in the house is at the heart of the problem and my conflict. Lucy is not crated (nor will I crate her at this point). I layer pee pads all over the carpet but she usually manages to pee or poop near them but not always on them. I have spent a small fortune on pee cleaner. The only thing I haven't tried is diapers. Not sure how well that works with females? Sigh.

 

Admittedly, I probably have "pee fatigue!" The senior male mixed breed I adopted last year is now marking in the house -- and my former (angel) pet blood bank boy marked on the walls, furniture, wherever he could unload a squirt.

 

I love all of them but cleaning and wicking up pee does gets old. But that's also the risk you take when you adopt seniors.

 

Lucy is very, very sweet but I wouldn't describe her as a joyful or super "happy" dog. But if her teeth hurt - well, I wouldn't be happy either. She is an odd, spooky sort.

 

But she has finally started to bond with me (I adopted her last April). She had a tough go and I'm guessing she just kinda shut down for awhile.

 

And, yes, $1000, is a lot of money. I sure could use a crystal ball right about now! Magic Eightball?

Edited January 24, 2013 by IndyandHollyluv

[silverfish]

I certainly empathise with the 'pee fatigue'. It is no fun at all, and carpets get ruined - sometimes other furniture, too; Jim used to pee up one of our armchairs, luckily made of leather, so it was easy enough to clean.

 

At the moment, I'm heading for 'vomit fatigue', since the oldie I adopted about 20 months ago throws up whenever he gets stressed about anything, and has a hair-trigger stomach when it comes to food, too. And if he has the runs, the daft dog can't squat in one place, he drips it through two rooms. *Sigh*

 

We put Flotex down in the lounge because of the dogs. It's industrial carpet, completely scrubbable - and thank heavens for it!! We're about to move it into the entrance hall (where THAT carpet has now been ruined) and do the lounge with carpet tiles. I'll be able to pick each one up to scrub it under the tap and it'll look slightly nicer. It'll go all the way to the edge, too, and cover the last remaining bits of laminate. Still no fun, but an improvement, and the dogs will slide less.

 

I have no experience with diapers for male or female dogs, but I know they do make them for the girlies. Might be worth a try overnight, but be careful to wash her off each morning because the urine can burn their skin.

[gracegirl]

I wish a crystal ball was available too. Fenway can't hold his pee (kidneys) so we have a dog door now. We needed it for our sanity. We were not sleeping and cleaning up pee about half the week.

 

I know it is so, so hard to predict anything with a senior dog, but I absolutely without a doubt would get that poor, painful dog a dental. Please look into care credit to help financially.

 

I would pay $10,000 for just one more day with my girl.

[Guest greytone]

I totally know what you mean. My old guy will be 12 in a couple weeks and he needs a dental. However, I don't want to do it because of his age.

[greytpups]

I totally know what you mean. My old guy will be 12 in a couple weeks and he needs a dental. However, I don't want to do it because of his age.

But what if he is in pain?